Mopar Pro Stockers

Sure looks like its going to be a long season for them, just hope they can pick it up soon. Being 2 MPH down to the better GM cars is going to be a tough task.

I feel your pain. If you take out the Summit cars AJ looks better but the new rules certainly seemed to throw the Mopars in a bigger loop than the others.

Line/Anderson figured something out early the other guys are still looking for.

This is second round Topeka:

Psn---Num-Driver, Home Town, Car Type---------------Qual-ET--Qual-Spd-To

1 8 Jason Line, Mooresville NC, '15 Camaro 6.578 210.37
2 361 Bo Butner, Floyd Knobs IN, '15 Camaro 6.591 209.59
3 2 Greg Anderson, Mooresville NC, '15 Camaro 6.600 209.30
4 730 Shane Gray, Mooresville NC, '16 Camaro 6.623 208.46
5 40 Alex Laughlin, Granbury TX, '15 Camaro 6.632 207.50
6 3 Allen Johnson, Greeneville TN, '16 Dart 6.636 208.20
7 4 Chris McGaha, Odessa TX, '15 Camaro 6.638 208.30
8 5 Drew Skillman, Bargersville IN, '15 Camaro 6.642 208.07
9 1 Erica Enders, New Orleans LA, '16 Dart 6.643 207.30
10 677 Aaron Strong, Milton WA, '15 Camaro 6.658 207.24
11 6 Vincent Nobile, Dix Hills NY, '15 Camaro 6.667 208.10
12 25 Jeg Coughlin, Delaware OH, '16 Dart 6.670 206.61
13 52 Deric Kramer, Sterling CO, '16 Dart 6.675 206.54
14 55 V. Gaines, Lakewood CO, '16 Dart 6.679 206.76
15 547 Mark Hogan, Dubuque IA, '09 GXP 6.925 200.05
16 538 Dave River, Maquoketa IA, '10 Cobalt 19.806 66.09

It threw a bunch of teams a curve, not just Mopars. Being down .03-.08 in et and 1.5-2 mph is hard to make up. Did anyone notice Andersons and Lines reaction times last week? It looked like they were playing it safe knowing they could drive around everyone else. Just like WJ did in his heyday.

I won't even waste my time watching it now... the new rules basically put the Summit cars way out in front after the past few seasons being so competitive... they sure know how to ruin a good thing! I have to say I find watching Street Outlaw guys and other similar groups on youtube 100 times more entertaining anymore.

Allen and Roy seem to be making good progress for all the turmoil they've gone through.

Team Summit have a great EFI guy AND a pretty huge budget. Pretty hard combination to beat.

Hopefully some new intake manifolds will get them a full tenth and 2 mph!

yup!they really need Summit as a sponsor

Wait...what?? How did the new rules put the Summit cars out front????? Their rule book is the same as everyone else's.

I sometimes wonder on when they got access to all of the rules. The Summit boys definitely seem to be at least 1/2 of a season ahead of everyone else.

John

Look at Elite Camaros...Vince Nobile is driving EE championship car from last year...and they are not close to the Summit cars...EFI threw everyone a curve...and the KB cars has it figured out better so far...

Yes,the Summit cars are good. After that it's pretty close. AJ looks like he making ground. The rules are the same for everybody. Just one team has figured out their combo sooner. Happens in every heads-up class in any type of racing.
Doug.

Buckner is real sharp on EFI.. he showed Line(being
they are the same teams).. AJ will come around with
Wilson coming on board... this isnt even a half season
and people are crying.. how long did it take PS to get
to this point... YEARS... look back a few years and
there were other teams that were way quicker

Bo "Butner" didn't show Jason anything on any EFI program, Jason does the tuning for all 3 PS cars. Bo doesn't do any EFI tuning on his own stockers either.

P/S has always had one team that seems to dominate for awhile, then everyone else catches up and someone else rises to the top.

According to Anderson Butner is sharp on the EFI stuff

He might be, but he's not tuning anything he or anyone else is racing.

It's just like the magic Hogan intake manifold thing, might keep some from concentrating on what really matters.

What ever

V. Gaines is really struggling and is giving up about .16 in the first round tomorrow against the Summit car. I hope he doesn't end up losing his sponsor.

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According to Anderson Butner is sharp on the EFI stuff
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He might be, but he's not tuning anything he or anyone else is racing.

It's just like the magic Hogan intake manifold thing, might keep some from concentrating on what really matters.


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What ever
[/quote]

You're right, I don't know anyone or anything, I'm making it up as I go lol.

I just repeated what Anderson said on the air..
nothing more

Diversion.

I am thinking Summit hired holley efi guru and got up to speed faster than anyone.

Wasn't Jason working and wrenching in the shop for WJ when he was on top of the world....??

Anderson came from WJ. AFAIK Line was working for a NASCAR team.

ok... I knew Greg worked for WJ but thought Jason was there also...? About the time Greg left WJ is about the time Warren seem to start falling off the map. Seemed to me that Greg or Jason played a heavy role in the cylinder heads, tire and chassis tuning if I'm not mistaken?

WJ claimed that Greg took all his secrets when he left. If he did Warren should've written them down because he sucked afterwards. IMO the Black teams have worked harder/spent more money to figure it out than other teams.

V sponsorship deal has to do with providing lubricates for his trucking business....

V is not hurting for money...lol..

Jason was the dyno guy for Joe Gibbs before joining Anderson.

Said this before, but nobody seems to want to listen........JASON LINE does all the tuning on the Summit cars. It's NOT Bo Butner. It's NOT John Meaney, it's Jason, plain and simple. He is a very smart guy and picked it up very fast. It's fuel, air and spark, just like it always been, but too many akin EFI to rocket science and Jason didn't. He took it for what it was.............Told me he barely even knew how to turn on a computer before.........LOL.

We(Holley) have had people at every race and virtually every test session, so we kinda know who does what as far as tuning and you see QUICK, who is good and who is not. AJ is struggling with the tuning

I know that Jason does the tuning on them.. all
I stated before was Anderson said Bo is real sharp
on EFI.. where he picked it up from I have no clue
but it was also said that Bo was helping Jason
on at least parts of it early on.... where did Bo
learn it from.. and Anderson said he stays clear of
the tuning since he knows very little at this time..
but I'm sure he is catching on even if he is just
watching

I feel fairly certain that a person like Jason could probably step in on the other programs and make some positive things happen....

I'm wanting to say that I heard this from an interview with Erica that they are struggling with cooling and that the lack of cooling across the top of the heads is burning up their engines....?? I haven't been on here much lately on the Pro Stock talk but has anyone else heard that??

If she REALLY said that publicly, somebody is likely in trouble................because somebody in the shop was just yanking her chain for fun. Definitely NOT true

Agreed but I'm fairly certain it was her that said that? Seems to me that it was a weekend that they had gone through all their bullets and the last one was in for eliminations?

I remember that comment on FS1 also. You could tell she wanted her Bowtie back.

Looks like Allen and his team found some things this past weekend. They got within a hundredth of the top teams on race day. It will be interesting to see how it translates to the east coast tracks where the air is typically better. The top guys will probably be low 50's there if the highs remain in the mid-upper 70's.

Anyone notice that the cowl area on the Chevy ps cars seems higher then stock, or are my eyes fooling me. Not saying that has any effect et wise because the other Chevy teams are struggling also but the Chevy hoods don't seem as flat as the mopars.

Doesn't matter, they ALL run the same EXACT intake ducting.......so the hood doesn't matter

Will it affect aerodynamics any?

Here is the VERY simple deal on this. Pro-Stock motors are VERY specific animals and few people know a LOT about tuning them really. Some of these teams have hired and fired some of the BEST EFI tuners on the planet. The difference is, these guys don't KNOW Pro-Stock motors. Now these tuners can and WILL figure it out, but patience is NOT a virtue in this class...............Now on the flip side, you have a guy like Jason Line who knows Pro-Stock motors in and out, PLUS, he caught on to the EFI thing VERY quickly. They SHOULD be way ahead and are. Hard to tune something you know nothing about and go right to the front.

I tune a LOT of EFI stuff. Could I immediately take a turbo car with the same stuff and make it run as fast as Steve Petty does........ hell NO. Might figure it out eventually, but might take a while. On the flip side, Steve Petty is likely the best turbo tuner on the planet. Would he expect to take a Pro-Nitrous car to the front the first time he touched it......NO. Then you have great all around tuners like Shane T, the guys at EFI University and others. NONE of those people have EVER tuned an EFI Pro-Stock motor, because there has never been one. Going to take time

PLUS and this may be the biggest PLUS of all..........everyone is immediately thinking the EFI is the issue. Maybe, maybe not. It COULD be that the KB racing cars just found some HP, as Pro-Stock teams are prone to do from season to season. They have done it before, Elite did it for a couple years. Mike Edwards was the "man" for a couple years and so on.

My friend has a shop literally a stones-throw from the KB shop in Mooresville which is right next to an 1/8th mile drag strip where they do a LOT of 60' Testing.

The first thing you note is the KB cars seem to be out 60' everybody so their MPH advantage may not be ALL top end HP. Mooresville is the hotbed of American Racing technology, besides NASCAR there is also the Ganassi F1 and FORD dumped a lot of R&D into the GT-40 LeMans effort in Joint development with Ganassi Racing. A number of the race teams have some pretty mega databases for simulating engine variables that could greatly reduce the R&D/guesswork development time. There's quite a good supply of very clever motor guys up in these parts to say the least.

Also it's not only the intake mainifolds, KB may have also been on the leading edge of optimizing the entire intake tract and cam timing. At Z-Max in Charlotte you couldn't help but notice all the manifold covers on the KB cars, and it made me wonder (somewhat at what Monte hinted at) that maybe it's a bit of Rope-a-Dope and they found 'something else'

Still at the same race all the MoPar intakes were exposed (at least nothing they were hiding with the new cars facing forward Pit rule) and on display and it looked to me like they were trying several different configurations, one of them was rather small and compact with a number of ribs that made it look like a Jack-O-lantern, lol.

It does seem like Roy and AJ may be slowly closing the gap, they've been there before, wasn't that long ago when the KB boys were using the (now Illegal) '85 degree' motors that were 90 degree banking but the thrust sides of the bores were angled 2 1/2 degrees away from the crank (as measured from top to bottom) to reduce friction on the power stroke, that was a NASCAR trick someone tipped them off to.

And before that he was running the Families Dyno business. He has been around a dyno since he was a kid.

I the world of racing you never know where you may find some secrete testing going on. LOL


http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/nascar/the-secrets-of-laurel-hill/

Time will tell if the Mopars can catch up, as said earlier AJ was looking good the last race.