SB Victor heads

Got ours and can't wait to run them!

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Looks like a nice head.. I dont like the exhaust
bolt pattern.. its biased to the low side and
leaves the upper portion with less clamping load
EDIT
What rocker gear do they use and what intake

Flow bench says?

X2

So there is an Easter bunny!

Chamber photos?

Flow bench says it's a very good design, very interesting how Rick built this port....
The pinch is kinda small because they left the opening just slightly lager than std. LA. So the pinch is 2.5" then it opens up and gets really large at the Short turn...but on a 4.030 bore it goes almost 380 cfm at 1" and what really impressed me is it went 282cfm at .400 lift on a 4.030 bore!
Cool thing is, there is enough room at the pinch to open it up to 3"!
SCE is working with us on the intake gaskets, TTI will have us a header soon...CP is doing the pistons for us, and TD is working on both a single shaft setup to go right on the head OOTB, and also a Bar/individual setup with milled pedestals.

I'm putting them on my 396sb as soon as I have the pieces to finish it.
Brian

looks like they could have raised the intake port a lot more

380 through that little pinch? Awesome! I think BPE is gonna start selling a bunch of 4.25 stroker kits.

Did it flow more on the 4.155 bore in the picture?

The head been welded on? Looks like fusion lines around the intake ports.

I noticed that too and was also wondering how you locate your heads on the bore. I drill and tap my head adaptors so the head is located off the head bolt pattern. I tried clamping like you show in the picture and repeatability was an issue. Can't wait to do some testing myself soon.

What's with the big voids on the intake face?

Just to make you have to think a little harder about sealing it all up.

Can I asked what the did at .600"? The numbers I saw showed them peaking about .800. Curious what they did at the "street cam" numbers.

This sucks. Had my heads in January, been at Crower for rockers. They told me another 2 months, did I want them sent back? The stands are milled, so until someone makes a bolt on pedestal rocker, they are just paper weights. Waiting again....

Are they 59 degree only or will the pushrods clear on a 48 degree block? Said the guy with a 48 degree block wondering about what heads to use.

I have a set of jesel 48 degree W2 rockers.

Interested in the .600-.800 numbers too....thanks!

So the 2.15 valve definately clears a 4.03 bore? !!!!!

I had to hurry and get the heads out so we can get all the parts coming to do an article...I didn't get pics of the chamber but I think it' pretty damn good!
Yes they move the intake valve over a ton!

Intake flow#'s on 4.030 bore:

.100 70
.200 145
.300 221
.400 282
.500 310
.600 330
.700 345
.800 356
.900 363
1.00 367

No welding, they are cnc ported and the ports measure out very good IMO. On the bigger bore, they topped out at 385cfm at 1.00".
So far I'm liking them, but they are HEAVY!! All the whiners who hate cast iron heads for their weight are gonna feel pain in the lower region but all well ;-)

Thanks Brian .

Right on bro !!! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

I'll bet the fitting the 4.03 bore had to be a major design parameter being they went with a 2.15" valve.

Do they have a milled pedestal version?

I agree getting 280 @ only .400 is kind of "holy grail" territory for a killer street wedge head. anything over 325 @ .600 is another great sweet spot.

It's kind of unusual to market a high flow at High lift head with extra head bolt provisions...but with pedestals and a 59 degree valve angle...hope a 48 will work...or they can be machined to fit without a ton of work.

Looks like where the clay radius cleaned it off--LOL. J.Rob

Might be best to mill it all flat and drill and tap 8 rocker stud holes and use an existing rocker for a che... er I mean magnum.

COOL!!! my heads are FINALLY in!!! (sold all W5 stuff in 12 as these heads were supposedly "almost" ready). Looks promising for a cool build!

Still have your W5 headers? If so, bring them with you next time your coming through here...I'll see how they work on the engine and the car!
They might work on my car as I went to an AlterKtion...
Brian

Finally sold them....

Nice heads Brian..is that out of the box.. can you read drilled exhaust flange on the head to accept a W-2 style header

You'll either have to make your own headers using a W5 flange, or use TTI's header which will be a very nice header for the $$$.

Yes the flow #'s are OOTB just as they came from edelbrock.

I suspect that with the pinch opened up to 3" it'll go 390's and maybe even touch 400 but I won't be trying it on these as we have to use them untouched on our build for a magazine article.

I hope they drain back good too, looks like they should and they have a nice tall valve cover rail!

I'll get pics of the chambers when I get the one head back from CP...should only be a couple more days.

What do they weigh?

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Not sure, but a lot! I'll weight them, but honestly it's a good thing I'm sure. I'm guessing 5 pounds shy of a cast iron head.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/cylinder-heads/chrysler/victor-sb.shtml

now a block to set them on, GD sorry I sold my R block

Stock mopar blocks are WAY stronger than their chevy counterparts.
Some people can break an engine with no nitrous, and some can make a block live at 900+HP!

Another reason to go to T&D. Sorry you're having trouble with Crower.

Finaly!

I bet a magnum block can take most but not all of what these heads can dish out.

Called T&D as soon as I hung up with Crower....2-1/2 months out for them as well. Maybe you gotta know someone?!

Damn I should have stayed small block ..no more good blocks lol

again doesn't look better than a 360-1 to .700, who 's going to run cams bigger than that? maybe all out build i guess. what kind of money?

I will let you know the limit of a stock magnum block, so far have handled 850-900 flywheel hp.

There's 4 59 degree R3 blocks left in Warren depot.... all are 9.200 deck, 2 are Siamese, 2 are not.

more info in the "mopar done making wedge blocks" post....

If you read my post, I have a head over at TD right now...they have to do engineering, mock up on 2 different rocker kits...give it some time.
Brian

Look, if you only look at flow numbers, your not getting it! The architecture of the head is where the power will come from...i.e. raised intake port, flatter 16° valve angle, tight 58 cc chamber, intake valve moved WAY over...for me we'll let the engine tell us if this new head is much better or not but even if it's marginally better, bolts on, and is a non porous casting it's a win.

Brian

...and hence my reason from staying clear of the Indy's back when I liquidated the W5s... heard from one too many on issues, and IF there was a set of heads that was junk, you can bet I'd end up with it!

The only price I've seen floating around has been on Hughs website. Looks like a major investment by time you add the piston and rocker costs. Over 3200.00 with valves.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=26914

"You will split a small block at anything over 600hp " thing gets beat to death on here, so I asked one time: hey Guys, post up your photos of a "broken" LA or Magnum block:


Crickets.

Those things get run at County Fairs with NO oil and brick on the pedal for 25 minutes and they never "split" a block. The roots of these blocks were used in trucking; long before diesel power replaced them. Now that's abuse.



The way I see it, you can buy at least 6 maybe even 8 LA/Magnum blocks for the cost of a one race block and beat the ever-loving daylights out of them.

WhiteDart used to have "Indy sprinkler heads" stickers on his quarter windows after 2 go arounds with the 360-1 245 heads

Thanks for the info Brian please let us know how these work out for you.

Thanks Brian. Did you send a milled stand head from Edelbrock? Rick milled mine and said he would offer that head as a seperate part number. I need to make sure that what he milled mine is the standard for which T&D is making stands.

A 225cc runner that flows what a 245cc Indy runner does. Yep, doesn't look any better to me either.

Looks like a fun project. The bolt pattern on the exhaust seems wrong to me. Wonder what the designer was thinking there? The other choices on the head seem to make sense.

It is wrong. Rick sent me pics of when he machined the first sets. I ask him about them and if they raised the exhaust bolt holes enough when the port was raised. He doubled checked and they didn't. He told me TTI was already making headers based on the wrong position, so they weren't going to change it. He did say he had Cometic making an exhaust gasket for the pattern. He also said a standard W5 gasket will fit, and just barely not cover the port, but does bias the header to the bottom of the port.

I stated that same issue(the exhaust bolts) right from the
moment I seen them.. mainly due to the fact I am a exhaust
guy

Aren't you supposed to measure twice ?

Its nice to see things happening on these heads, but I think things are way too early to foster out thoughts after getting jacked around for 3-4 years and then have to pay a premium for the product.

Pro comp needs to get a set of these off to the china man so I can get a set for $1500 to play with next year.

That exhaust pattern wouldn't bother me and is an easy fix. Sonic check the head and drill and tap the holes where-ever you want them. I would go a step further and install keenserts at least in the new holes.

The problem is that they are making headers based
on the bolt location it is now.. so if you change
the bolt location you will be building a new flange
and welding it on... its a shame they didnt change
the bolt location before they released the head..
any exhaust guy would have seen that in a blink

I totally see your point but from their point of view what pattern would really the best. I have both Hedmen W2 headers and standard bolt pattern hedmens. The exhaust ports on both stock small block heads and Edelbrocks are poorly designed which makes for a limited header tube size (and flow). I like my Hedmens but had to do some major tube reshaping with a 4 pound hammer just to clear the oil pan. This week I will be moving 2 tubes just to get clearance for an engine diaper which we all (10.99 and quicker) will be doing soon. kinda sucks to have to modify parts but by now most of us are used to it. Unless you have the money to pay someone else to do. My limited funds and pride won't allow me to do that. Really 3 tubes need moved but I paid an extra 150 dollars for a ballistic one the can also touch the headers.

If they would have moved both bolt holes up so that
the bolts split the port in half.. now the top has
less clamping load

No, I'm letting TD mill one head how THEY want it...the parameters that Sheldon and I talked about were:
Single shaft setup for OOTB heads, bolt on kit that will go at least .750 lift at the valve...
Bar/individuals to allow at least .850 lift at the valve...

I doubt one set has been made. And how hard would it be to put the flange holes in a new position. The head maker didn't want to move the hole on the head. Sorry for hating.

Its up to the head builder.. sounds like they
wont be moving them... so it is what it is..
hope the flanges are thick on the headers

So can you run six cylinder head studs with this head? How does the top row work?

i must have missed it, but how far off are the flange holes on the headers ?

Go back to the pics on page 1 and see for your self

thanks mr. p. i goofed again. i forgot about seeing those ! gettin' old sucks. sometimes i can't remember what i had for supper !

Ha, that is too funny. They raised the port but forgot to raise the bolt holes. Umm, some sort of rookie running the CAD system over at Edelbrock these days??

While the headerboltsituation may be less than perfect and should have been sorted out but i realy dont think its going to be a problem to seal the headers.

If I didn't have so much money wrapped up into this W9 set up
I would try the Victors.

Did they change the way they bolt on or not?

Seems like you could add tabs on the exhaust flange and drill a couple off extra holes in the head. The center in particular would respond well to another bolt in the center at the top

Can't wait mate.......I'm bursting at the seams to see how these things go. It has been a long time coming and its a pitty I invested so much into my W5's.

All we need is someone to do decent blocks and look out for the small block brigade!!!!

Andrew

I hate that exhaust bolt locations, I mean they spent all this time and effort just to put out a head that look like it fell off the back of Cooter's trailer. How do you as this huge company even allow something to leave your shop that way.....

I guess either W9 or going to gen III Hemi will still be in my future

Touche! Somebody finally said it.

After how many years of saying you want to get it right!!

And knowing there are aftermarket parts suppliers who have to make parts according to the screw up

They need to correct it now IMO

Started work on our heads Monday. They flowed 364 @ 800 ootb and with a valve job and clean up of tool marks went 380 @ 800. They are going on 440 inch Ritter block 4.185 x 4 and will be up and running next week. Edlebrocks site now shows big block victor rockers and Houghes has them ready to ship, ours arrived yesterday.This stuff is the real deal and will make big inch small blocks easier to build,as the parts are now available. Also the exhaust bolt pattern is W2 and our old 2in headers bolt up without adapters.I will update as we get closer to dyno day. Ive got some pics but dont know how to post.

Ray

Can you use the top row of head studs? Did they change them from the proto type?

thanks for the additional info Ray.... hope you can post some picts up!

How do you like that block? Any other details? What power are you expecting?
Brian

Nope...

Not to hijack the thread, but spoke with Don Flanagan at Crower yesterday, and the Crower stainless rocker shafts for this head will be ready in about 4 weeks....so I'm told. You will have to mill the cast stands and bolt on their steel stands and rockers. Just an option for you guys wanting to run high spring pressures or endurance applications.

Hey, options are a great thing!

Also spoke with TD on their progress, single shaft kit is done and has a part#...which I will post with all the other info once finished. Looks like as much as 1.8 ratio with the single shaft kit! They are now moving on to the individual kit, and then they will mock up on a 48° block to see if that's a possibility.
I'm also trying to find out when the Victor head will be readily available to purchase from anywhere....

Its good to see people working on parts for these heads because they are the best thing out there right now that is close to a bolt on item. The Ritter block is as good a block that you can buy and compares to even the best Chevy stuff, but it needs some work to be ready for the application.The goal for this is to run 10.90 @ 150 in Super Street trim and run 8.60s @155 in bracket so the target is around 800 hp. Don't know if we can get there but it's the goal. The plan is to be at Bowling Green for the Sports Nationals the 26th thru 29th of this month,we invite anyone to stop by and visit. I'll have one of the kids post some pics.

Ray Buckner

ok here are some pictures of the SB Victor heads and rocker arm assemble from Hughes Racing. Just an added note NOTHING fits like advertised so have a good machine shop ready to work!

Jason

We had J. Allen Sherman at Trumble Racing Engines in Pasadena Texas build the motor and do all of the FITTING/porting/polishing work of the advertised BOLT ON Victor intake and heads LOL! Allen has done a great job thus far and has had many obstacles to overcome along the way. I encourage anyone who wants good quality work done on the new heads to call him as he is now the SB Victor GURU and has figured out all the little quirks to make this combo run! We will be on the DYNO next week and will post results. My next reply will be pictures of the intake before/after pics

Ok here are pictures of the Super Victor intake they list for the heads. It is FAR from a bolt on item as you will see in the pictures. This project has been a labor of love for sure. I hope its all worth it and we reach our goal..... Allen Sherman has worked for 2 full days on the fit just FYI

Ritter block early on in the process... great block but WOW does it need work to make it even come close to putting it together.

And of course I had to share pictures of the car me and POPS have worked so hard on over the last several months. Come check us out at the Sports Nationals in a few weeks and see the SB Victor Motor in person.

Jason

Allen is a great guy. They did some work on my xr P7 block a while back. Mike is one of the most talented machinist I have personally seen. You are in good hands. I think I may have met you at Trumbles one night. I saw pictures of your stuff from one of our customers that picked up his rotating assembly. Your project is looking sweet. What day are you dynoing, I would be interested is spying if you didn't mind. Good luck. Brian W.

I will keep you posted on Dyno day come on by we have nothing to hide LOL. Now if it was one of our stock/ super stock motors then yea we would be in top secret mode lol

Thanks for sharing Jason B. Will be great to see available stuff out gettin it done.

We won't be using the SV intake...it won't support big power with out a ton of porting and welding...we'll be adapting an Indy intake to our build...

We'll also be using TD rockers. If you are looking to make more than 700HP, that intake will be a bear to do it with.

well if you want to cut, grind, weld, etc on one Brian... I THINK I know where one is....

...and Jason, I don't ever recall the words "great" and "Ritter block" in the same post. Hoping for the best, the small block community needs it.

Geez tough critics in here... I guess the proof will be in dyno sheet and time slip ... BUT being that no one has done any testing on any of the mentioned intakes it's everyone's guess on how much power everything will support or make especially since nobody has a motor running with these heads yet. SO we will hopefully see some real data next week!!

And as far as the Ritter block goes I meant great in the strength department that thing is as meaty as any other brands block and then some. As far as getting it to a point where you can even assemble it well that's a whole completely different story as I said it needed a ton of work but I have no doubt that it will hold up! Hell we made right at 700 HP with a 40yr old stock block and 40 yr old W2s that were full of battle scars and repairs so I guess we will see!!

I'm sure you've probably heard some of the doom and gloom stories relating to the block. Don't get me wrong... myself as well as many other would love to see builds completed utilizing the block without too many issues. I myself nearly went that route back in 12 when I was starting to piece together my W8 project, but was persuaded to go the R3 route, especially since I work at a dealer and got it at cost. Hindsight being what it is, that was a very good route to go on my part as there are some with paid for unusable Ritter blocks and a member here "Whitedart" got his running, but oh boy has it been a trial by fire. Like I said, I like a good build and appreciate you sharing yours. If you care to disclose some of your trials and tribulations of getting the block to where you were "ready to go", I'd love to hear about it.

Jay

Honestly Jay the block took a tremendous amount of machine work to get ready for assembly fixing the oil passages, drilling and tapping bolt holes,machining some of the mains so the bearings would fit ECT... IN Ritters defense this is a brand new run of the block and is considerably better than the first he used a new foundry and corrected several issues NOT all but was much better. Bottom line is if you have a good machinist who is patient and knows what he is doing you will be fine we have our block and one other one at Allens shop that about to be a stock eliminator motor since we now know how to fix all the issues! I will tell you this one of the guys in the shop built pro stock engines for a very well known team and stated the block when it was done looked to be as beefy as any pro stock style block so take that as you will. We have been all over that damn thing and can't find anything else so we shall see. Hell before the W2 heads took a crap on the dyno we had already made 10 pulls and the block was good to go! We have been in contact with Ritter and advised him of the issues weather he corrects them or not is on him but thus far I don't see any reason not to use the block if you have a good machinist who knows mopars.

Or just ship it down to Allen and let him fix it for you. Here is the assembled engine with the W2s ready for the Dyno. I will keep everyone updated on progress.

Are you guys bushing the lifters... or did you find a lifter that work without bushing them

Bottom line is there are NO R3 blocks available and never will be again unless you get someone to sell you one. So either find a way to deal with Ritter and get his stuff to work or run what JUNK is left out there. The Victor head on a Ritter block has big potential and we are lucky to have someone making anything. Also guys don't forget we have to use these products and find a way to make them work or they will quit making them then WHAT??? We have nothing!!! We plan to share what we learn to help get this stuff out there and running

We did not bush lifter bores ,don't the part number right now ,but it was a comp cam .We did grind block to clear guide bars.

Funny this comes up...Kent is talking to me right now about his aluminum block...we might end up trying it for our Victor build...I'm waiting on a price from him but either we'll do that or go to a 9.200 deck block.

Holy cow.. can those exhaust bolt holes be SAFELY redrilled and coiled higher?

what was it making with the W2 heads?

He needs some good press on these things, a whole bunch of money invested and no one buying them

Kent told me he doesn't want to much press because he can't cast them fast enough....

The W2 motor made 675 without the vacuum pump pulling water from the cracked head so how much that hurt the numbers who knows.

Keep swingin guys! Kent makes block, insert seasoned machinist here>>>><<<< and BAM 1000hp W9 460" Mopar SB's ready wreak havoc.

If the price doesn't reflect the quality & machining issues that are regularly brought up here, why would anyone want to buy one?

That is exactly the point I was trying to make. If the machining errors have been sorted out, you'd be wanting to let folks know.

Not to hijack this thread but until Kent Ritter makes it right to those that have blocks that are useless I wouldn't buy anything from him! He needs to refund their money or give these people a newer casting in exchange. Flame on!

Mike Gray

Heads show alot of promise. Good to see some doing things and not complaining over the costs vs gains.

Less then two weeks ago a 59 degree std. deck R3 in the box went for 2/3 of the cost when new on ebay.

There are alot of blocks around and still cant pull what the org. cost from mopar was..... So that says alot of the "wants" vs "willing to pay" and really very few need a race block or even these heads for that matter, since 10.0/slower is easy stock block and eddy head ground.

Just thinking about the flow numbers a little more, it seems these fall right inbetween a std-port and max-wedge BB victor don't they?

I didn't see that block and I look almost every day

How much power did the motor end up making and did t&d rockers work out for a shaft mount and the head machined down any up dates