Chassis work prices

Hey guys. I have a 64 dart with a small block. Mini tubbed but I'm looking to improve the suspension and get a cage And all that. I can get my hands in about 10 g's. I see I can buy a back half car for that much..... I'm looking to bet a bunch of work to my car. I want to turn my car into a tube chassis race car that I can do whatever I want to but I can't do that myself and be happy with it. So I'm actually gonna pay someone to do it. What's the market price for this kinda stuff? Back half? A good cage from front to rear? How much to have someone make motor plate, mid plate? I've never paid anyone to work on a car before....

Also I'm in Texas Austin/Houston/Dallas/San Antonio area if anyone knows anybody I should use. I'm not rich by any means and I don't need artwork if you know what I'm sayin but I want something nice and on a professional level

If you want a tube chassis, why stop at just a back half? Go 4 link and struts right from the start. The early A bodies need all the help they can get in the front end an fitting just about any motor into them.

Jeff

"I see I can buy a back half car for that much....."

You can buy a car for way less than it costs to build one unless you do all the work yourself. Way less.

10k might get you a half decent back half done. Depends on what's included. CM or MS? Nice, detailed, well designed cage and chassis or bare minimum ERW kit with 2x3 rails? Junkyard Dana or good 9"? Quality disc brakes or some old drum brakes that somebody had laying around? Fuel system? 4 link, ladder bars, anti-roll? Good shocks? Sheet metal finished? Plumbing, wiring, battery mounts? Does the builder have a legitimate business with the associated overhead and equipment or a shed behind his house with a Home Depot welder, a disc grinder and a tape measure that he can't use?

Not trying to bust your boys, just trying to illustrate some of the things you need to think about. Be honest with yourself (and the guy doing the work) about your budget and how far you expect it to take you. Building a car is great, but running out of money before it's half done can be demoralizing.

I'm thinking mild steel. I can do a lot myself. I just want them to do the fabrication work associated with 2x3 frame rails, 4-link, I could use my 8 3/4 and my brakes or a used 9"...

I guess what I'm looking for is how much should I spend per hour and how many hours do some of these jobs take.

Big variable across the country for prices.. and
to what you really want done.. a 7.50 or 8.50 cert
or if you want things like a funny car cage.. but
in my opinion its cheaper to buy a car
EDIT
I'll sell you mine as a roller.. ready for a SB
with everything and no cheap stuff

I can't buy a new car because this was my dads car and it's tattoo'd on my stomach. I'm thinking the car is only gonna run about 12's.

Basically it's a hack job in the back I wanna fix with new frame rails and I need a cage because the A pillars are cracking and that's not cool at all. Kinda a hack job up front too ya know. I have fender well headers in a 64 dart. It's all wonky. I haven't driven the car for 5 years and I need to get it all back together. I'm gonna have 10,000 to spend on it and I wanna spend it wisely. You guys seem to know how to do that pretty well I think

Your best bet is to look up chassis shops in your
area and get prices... but KNOW what you want and
price that

http://www.racingjunk.com/Door-Cars/182657884/Mild-Steel-Chassis-For-Sale-Maverick-Vega-Mustang.html

I had a 8.50 CM cage done in my car last year for 3k.
That was him cutting the old POS MS cage out and new one in with the under hood bars.
Oh and chute mount .

Look up nitrogarage, they are up in Elsinore I believe, they did my dad's 12 pt cage and moved the firewall back 12 inches for a good price, dont remember the amount but know it wasn't bad. I'll see if I can find their card

Thats dirt cheap.. I charged more.. what all did
he do

He says he is in Texas now, not CA OP , I have a back half 1965 Dart 270 that is certed to 7.50 that I need to finish, buy or have made glass or carbon fibre body parts, paint, wire and plumb and then go test
Go chromemoly to start with, avoid doing it over down the road when you really want to go faster

A few years ago i spent $4k for CM 8.50 cage, aftermarket mini tubs, chute mount, fuel cell mount, front driveshaft safety loop, tin work (trunk firewall, package tray, and trunk), and other small stuff. While the car was at the shop for that work, they made stainless headers for $1700. Took it back again last year for some bigger ladder bars, a wishbone, and anti-roll bar. forgot how much those cost. I'll look for the receipt.

That's real cool. You could probably do a budget build M/S 12 point, 2x3 back half with ladder bars, and have enough left over to find yourself one of those tubular k frame setups. More than enough to handle well into the low 10's. Probably even certify for 8.50 if done right.

I like that. We'll see what I kind find in about a month....

Try contacting Alston Chassisworks for a welded chromemoly back half chassis for your car and see if you can have it installed locally. I had a customer in SO CA years take his 1965 Valaient to them for a back half and later for a front half back when they where working on customers cars Good luck, let us know what you decide
BTW, sometimes it is better, faster and as cheap using a good professional well known shop that builds your car on a chassis jig than a local hack that gets the car into his shop and then jacks the price way up

If you don`t mind a couple hour drive to the high-desert, I can hook you up w/someone..........760-900-3895.........

I'm thinking the car is only gonna run about 12's

You don't need anything like that much work.

That's why I recommended ladder bars and a MS back half. Sooner or later, 12's won't cut it. MS not enough weight increase to take away from the performance. Good enough to handle low 10's and go straight every run on a budget. Can certify for 8.50 class if built properly.

I run 6.20's in the 1/8 on M/T drag radials with stock leaf springs and home made Caltracs. Just put a cage in it and put Caltrac Bars on it.

Put a 6 point in it and your good to 10.0...
sounds like its gonna be awhile till your lower
than that... myself I would make the it a 8 point
out of moly and if later if you want to add on you
can add on and still be lite

Hey guys, so I got he car at the shop. I'm looking into buying a ladder bar setup from Chris Alston chassis works I about the $1500 range.

Looks like the best way to go... I don't know to much about this stuff. I guess my question is

Is this a good route to go down?

Also not sure on what length bars to get? I want them to work right the first time I've seen some guys have to cut the floor out and stuff I hope I don't have to do that.

This is what I'm looking at

I need to know about the spring rate too I don't really know which one to get

Buy mine... its all moly..roller or turn key.. ran 8.9s
at 151 with a 405ci N/A

Alston makes some nice stuff. Used them previously in my car. You will probably end up doing some minor floor cutting and rewelding, but not too much. I put a Morrison ladder bar setup with crossmember in a Foxbody. Welded the driveshaft loop to the floorpan hump, rolled the carpet back and put the rear seat back in. My newest setup is from Smith-Racecraft, but I don't think they sell their Ultimate Ladder Bar kit any more. $1,500 I'm guessing you are buying the whole subframe kit, bars, locator, coil overs. S&W Performance makes an assortment of direct fit frame rails for narrowing rear chassis.
32" is a good length to be at. I like ladder bars for ease of adjustment, and the car tends to launch straighter since the bars act as an antisway bar at the same time. Moderate hp cars that are pulling the left front wheel up tend to stay on the ground more with ladder bars.

Didn't see your spec sheet. 32" double adjustable.

Ok cool. I think I'm gonna buy the ladder bar kit posted above. Need to buy it today or tomorrow. I just don't know which spring rate to start out with. I know I might not get it right first try. But I have no idea where to start.

Also I'm doing a lot of figuring stuff out with the axle width and how the tires fit in the car. Always heard buy wheels and tires first cut rearend to fit.

Currently I have some center lines on the car. 10" wide. 6 in front 4 in back. But the tire is hitting the fender on the outside. I'm basically figuring narrow the rearend again 1" more and it should all fit.

Can I just take the rear to a shop and be like take 1" off of this and axles and keep rolling with my wheels and tires?

Basically the guy at the shop wants me to buy more aftermarket axles with a different bolt pattern and offset the wheel to make it all fit. So buy new wheels. I want to do the most cost effective way. So I guess the question is really. How much tire clearance do I need between the rear tire and the car. Is 1/2" good?

I believe you said it was a A body.. 120# will
be very close unless it weighs a lot

No a 1/2 inch is to tight

Depends where your talking.. on top at the fender I like
to be able to slide my hand in it(so thats about 1")..
on the front I like a bit more... if your talking the top
the top of the tub.. you want at least 1 3/4"

Thanks man

Yes, you get the wheel/tire combination, set it up under the car where it fits, take the wheel to wheel measurements and build the rear to the wheels. Pay attention to pinion offset. Use the deepest wheel offset you can. The rear will be narrower (lighter), axles shorter, and the wheel will come off and on easier.

Narrowing the rear usually involves new axles. Great time to upgrade housing ends, bearings, axle size, etc. to the good stuff.

Car should be weighed to get the right spring the first time, but 110-120 is probably what you will end up with.

Ok about the clearance how about between the tire and the frame. I think I'm getting new tubs that go straight up but how close can I have the tire to the frame. 1 3/4"?

Thing is I've already narrowed the rear end and dos all this once already so I only need to take like an inch outta the rear end already have aftermarket axles. I think I'm gonna add a backbrace on the rear end too.

I guess 1 other question.

They offer a pan hard bar and a trac- locator

What should I do get both get one I have no idea

The tire can be 1" from the frame. I've run closer than that but wouldn't recommend it. I like the track locator bar between the ladder bars. A panhard bar would shift the rear end side to side throughout its range of motion. The track bar keeps the rear end square in the chassis. The panhard bar would also have to be readjusted whenever you change ride height to recenter the rear.

You can get a track bar that either has weld on tabs from lower tube to lower tube, or you can get kits that use the front and rear heim bolts for the mounting tabs. My old Alston bars had the weld on brackets. My new RaceCraft bars use the bolt on brackets. Matter of personal preference, but the bolt on brackets use a longer bar, which I like.

You want 1 of 2 things... the track locator
or the wishbone... I have both on different
cars... the street rod I use the track locator
(thats the rod that angles between the ladder) bars)
and when you mount it use the lower rear hole on the
diff and what ever hole you have the front bolt in is
where you mount the front locator.. that way it pivots
in the same arc as the ladder bars... a wish bone is
more for the track.. I mount the single point on the
diff and I use the fronts in same holes as the bars..
it has a sliding inner tube which you need to keep lubed
so it slides.. another thing you might want later is a
anti roll bar.. that depends on if things are flexing...
a track locator is the easiest.... the angled
bar is the locator
EDIT
It is HIGHLY advised to add the back brace if
your using a 8 3/4 or a 9"
Also.. get the double adjustable ladder bars..
makes life much easier

I'll give you another piece of advice.. on the
back brace.. once you figure out the length..
weld the brace all the way to the ends(right
behind the bearing brackets).. put the bearing
brackets on last... all the other stuff that
goes on cut it around the back brace.. that way
the axle tubes are way stronger..guys that stop
at the springs(leaf springs) so they dont have
to work around the bolts.. the ends(past the brace
still bend)

I went to a larger tire years ago and needed to cut another 1" off the rear end. I also cut the axles with a cut off wheel. Remove all but 1 stud set it up on some v blocks have a helper spin the axle with the stud while you cut this way heat will not be an issue. Then use a flap wheel at an angle while spinning to remove the burrs. Good as new. If you don't have v blocks cut some out of wood. This is if you have enough spline to do it. I also recently did this for a friend on some new axles that were too long by 1 1/4" because someone measured the housing wrong.

That's scary!

Why. How many axle have you shortened. My car has been running 1.18 60' times for over 15 years on these axles. If you search the Bullet there are a lot of other people who use a cut off wheel on them too.

I just cut the housing in my cut off saw... I
know it cuts square .. just have to set it up
level... turn it on and walk away
EDIT
On axle if they need a trim...I chuck them up in
the lathe ans SLOW turn them then use my die grinder
that I have a jig made up for to hold it and turn it
in slowly.. might take 5 minutes for the axle.. then
I give them a little bevel on the end
On the die grinder I 90% of the time use .040
X 4" cut off wheels...love those wheels

Some manufacturers will gang run axles with very long splines and chop them to length. If you happen to have a set with long splines, I suppose this can be done. But a good axle is made with the proper spline length for the spool being used and the proper taper and spline major and minor diameters. On these you can't just chop them off.

[quote=MR_P_BODY]I just cut the housing in my cut off saw... I
know it cuts square .. just have to set it up
level... turn it on and walk away
[/quote}
The OP asked about the axles.

And I edited for it

all very helpful thanks guys.

How many hours do you guys think this should take?

I was thinking it's about 50 hour job....

I don't know what this guy is trying to pull but his estimate is 100hrs. That's seems like a little much to me

If you are unsure about the guy find another.

You're talking about doing a backhalf, cage, (frameties?), narrow the rear (doesn't matter if it's an inch or a foot, takes the same amount of time), tubs?, sheetmetal? 100 hours, or even a little longer, is about right unless the guy's a hack. Plus material.

Again, is he full time in a well equipped shop or in a shed behind his house with a floorjack and a Home Depot welder?

I kind of am unsure

I like the kit you are looking at. The amount of work is more than just the installation of those parts, but the removal of the old parts. Springs and mounts, shocks and mounts. Relocate rear axle brake lines. What about exhaust? Will it be in the way of the ladder bars? I can tell you first hand, chassis work is very time consuming. Without looking at your car, it would be hard to estimate.

I dont recall.. are you going mild steel or moly..
moly takes a lot longer.. and if he is doing the rear
end that doesnt take a lot of time but the parts cost
and cutting and trimming the tubing takes time... I
have found over the years.. I quote a price in my mind
then double it and it comes out damn near dead on...
if your not happy with the price or hours... move on
down the road

100 hours (which is low depending on what all needs to be done) at $50/hr (which is cheap) is 5K before the first part or piece of tubing is bought. Not trying to be mean, it's just the reality of it.

Ok. So the guy basically wouldn't give me any estimates. Then. I thought they were charging $75/hr but he says 95/hr then he won't budge on the 100hrs thing even if do a simple re-do of my spring relocation. He said a lot of the pricing depends on my attitude. Then he said currently we are at 7hrs. He hasn't even touched the car. Or even assessed the frame until that point. He said it took him 7 hrs calling professional racers and getting there opinions for him to figure out I should go with a competition engineering slide-a-link and qa-1's. He said if I had a better attitude I could be at 2.5 hours. And that's where he lost me. I said. I'm at $700 now? He's like "ya". I'm like take the 700 out of my deposit right me a check for the rest I'll be here tomorrow with the trailer.


Basically. I can weld. And as easy as he was making the job I can do stuff like that. I think I just needed to realize why I do things myself. I can blame myself and re-do it again if I want.

If I'm gonna spend 10,000$ it's not gonna be to install ladder bars on my street car with maybe one day 400hp

I'll keep you guys updated in what happens but I think I'm gonna order a whole new. Cal trac setup with shocks and work on getting the 4000 I need for the alterKation setup I need

By mine... its a lot cheaper and a ton lighter... that guy
is out of his mind

who was the guy, i'm in the austin area, ride my bike by yr place sometimes and stop to talk to you.

Well, that was unfortunate. Don't know who you were talking to, don't want to know. Something you said or did, probably unintentional, set him off. He could have simply said he wasn't interested in your business and sent you away.
Talked to "professionals" for 7 hours and determined that you should use slide-a-links and QA-1s? He probably did you a favor, although I would probably be hesitant to pay him a consultation fee of $700 for that bit of wisdom. Get a receipt.

I don't really want to say who he is..., Thing is he didn't talk to me for 7 hours and he talked a lot before he even looked at the car. Whole time I was thinking if I wanted to spend that much I'd buy mR.p body's car

To be honest mr.p body I would love to have your car but I just don't think I'd do it any justice and I don't want to do that to your car. Your car needs to stay in the track. I'm a street cruiser.


What's up krautrock?! Just trying to move forward. I moved out east a little. More land.


The guy was interested in charging me 10,000$ for 100hrs. That's 2.5 weeks for $10,000. People that make that kind of money sent like this guy they talk more clear, they dress nice, professional. The problem is I should have brought it to a legitimate race shop.


I can fix the car myself no biggie

I was gonna put the P-body back on the street for
DW and in the end would have cost me WAY LESS... but
I like different and I had the Rampage so I went ahead
and did it.. on the P I was gonna add the lights back on
and put a Gear Vendor on it with either a 4.10 or 4.30
gear and a little shorter tire... insurance and plates
and I would have saved a pile of money... I might have
added a second seat and changed the scoop to a lower one
but that would have been about all... oh.. and added a
trailer hitch in the chute hole
EDIT
Right now I'm building up my 395ci that was my back
up engine in the P-body but I want a little bit milder
cam in it and might put that in the Rampage before DW..
I am putting the W-5s on the 395 but still thinking on
that.. or pull the cam and heads on the 416 and put the
W-5s back on it and a different cam... the cam in the
416 has a ton of lope in it... a bit much for the street

Some places here in Cali love to jack up prices probably likeep other places but, I'll be going out of state for my 72 satellite stuff to be done, most here are two dumb and have to much attitude