727's and power?

Just curious about how much power people are racing 727's with.

I'm asking because I may put one of my predator motors in front of one, in a 3400 pound car. The motor makes 1200 on a single 4, and the trans is built pretty strong for a 727. Billet aluminum steel shell drum, billet rear drum, Griner brake, aftermarket input and output shafts,5 pinion planet, roller, billet servos ect with billet front coan converter. I know there are other things that can be done to make them stronger, but if I have to spend 10 more cent's on this 727 I'm going to get another glide.

So in short this time, are any of you guys beating on one with that, or higher power with the trans mods I mentioned? Just don't want to scatter a good trans for no reason, and I've never put that much on one personally. Thanks.

I have put over a 1000 to one.
This year it will get close to 1500 so we shall see.

I had one hold up real well built similarly behind my turbo car. Made around 1100hp 3700lb with me sitting in it. 3.50 gear with a 31w tire. Probably a lot more tq than the pred motor, not as much hp. I had a very low rpm staging strategy that probably was easy on the trans.
That said, if you can get your money out of it to get a glide...

There's no way out of a 727 financially lol, or any other race trans for that matter.

For sure your turbo was making way more tq. I'll have to bang 1st hard to get this tub moving.

I only have time to swap motors, and get headers made if I'm going to race this car this summer. Having to swap trans to a glide along with the motor will take even more time I don't have. My choice is either leave it alone with the PG hemi, and 727. Or swap to a pred, and keep the 727 in place.

I really wouldn't worry about the trans durability. All the weak links are addressed in the trans parts you have. If you trust the builder, the parts will do what you need them to do.

It leaves ugly, but power should help it. Here's it going 5.56 with the PG 572 hemi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG23Iwdy1Q0

Good, then if it works, I'll spray it too.

Really like the looks of that car!

I would put a Turbo 400 in it and hope some sucker would buy that high dollar 727.........LOL!!!!

That looks like Brainerd Optimist drag strip. Are you in my area?

You're right, it's Brainerd. I'm 1.5 hours south.

A 400 at the same strength only costs a thousand bucks, and that's just not proper mopar economics lol

Really, id rather have a glide in it, just no time. Cross member, bell, wheel, D shaft, shifter

I am working with John at CRT to build a 2nd gear start 727. 1.45 first gear for my twin turbo car. He already has a 2nd gear start billet valve body with the brake operable in 2nd. I have a A&A straight cut 2.45-1.45-1 gear set. You could use a 2.77-1.57-1 helical gear set to get a little more SLR if you need it.

wow killer car....ive been through the same situation and stayed the the 727 because it was the easiest route and ive got some money into mine too.. so i say give it a shot you own it no extra $$ to shell out for now.

Best advice so far.

Just as a perspective.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304556&page=3
They all need $$ thrown at them.

thank you for what you are trying to do and not giving into the power guide ( taxi cab trans )

Blew a 727 with 330hp once..

I think with all the performance parts you can get for the 727 internals, the weak point becomes the transmission case?

The diesel guys are pushing 1,000+ HP and almost double the torque through the 48RE transmissions. I though ATS diesel was planning to cast heavy duty versions of the 48RE transmission case?

I've put 400's, and glides in my mopars plenty of times before. I know it's the way to go, just wanted to know what people are putting on them, and having them stay together. I only have so much time, this time of year to wrench, so it's a confidence issue with planning.

After the summer it'll get a glide, and that'll be that. Just have a better motor to put in, and no time to do the extra work. Always want to go a bit faster lol.

Being brand loyal is fine, but in many cases makes NO economic sense. Spend a fortune on a 727 with all the goodies.......great, what do you have? A bunch of expensive parts in a STOCK trans case, why? Just so you can say your Mopar has a Mopar trans. Few people care about that crap anymore these days. Use what works the best and is a better value per dollar spent.

Plus guys talk out of both sides of their mouth anyway. They say a "Mopar has to have a Mopar trans" or it makes it less of a Mopar somehow. Yet those same people have no problem with a Lenco, a Nash, a Liberty, Bruno trans, which are all aftermarket trans. But when you mention the Glide or Turbo 400, it's like you kicked them in the nuts because that's a GM trans. No it's not. It's an all aftermarket parts, RACE transmission that happens to be based on a GM design. Same as most 9" Fords have zero factory parts, was just designed by Ford. A Dana which was designed by DANA corp, by the way is considered fine, since it came in some factory Mopars. Well guess what, so do 9" rears and powerglides...think Drag Pack. So get over the silly crap already

first of all I am a loyal mopar man. why are you on here trying to start a argument?? the man ask about 727 right?? not anything else you brought everything else up . and I am just saying a mopar guy will never have a good trans if no one works and develops one or builds a case. like you said the 400s are all aftermarket why cant we have aftermarket 727 ?? there is a 65 Plymouth that runs at pittsburg raceway and it has a b1 motor 727 and a dana 60 weights 3100 pounds and goes 7.70s so it can be done.

Mine is street driven and have thrown over 900 ft lbs on it and it's still fine,,,,,,,,,so far,,,,,,,,

And still pushing buttons!

Im just doing this because its what I have. I want the 1.45 for slr purposes. Nothing to do with brands. As you have said before Monte, at this level everything is aftermarket anyway.

Well, I've decoded to just suck it and see, as they say lol

I'll throw it in and see what comes out the bottom, if anything.

Maybe, if anything it'll contribute to the "what will it take" Mopar knowledge base lol.

I don't believe Monte is trying to start an argument, he was just pointing out the facts that everything has it's limitations.
The 727 is a good transmission to a certain level, past that level you're building an expensive bomb. There's not an aftermarket case/housing for the 727 because the demand isn't there, Glides & TH400s will always be more economical.

Exactly , it's not the HP that breaks stuff it's the torque.

Darren how much Torque is that engine making ?

I agree, many are reaching or have already exceeded the limits of this OEM stuff. There was another thread asking about aftermarket 904 cases. You can put $50,000 worth of parts in a stock case and you still have that weak link. Finding decent cores is another issue. I'd like to see someone step up with good cases for Chrysler transmissions too. But the development of the T400 based stuff is way ahead at this point. I believe that's the reason for a lot of these Hemi Super Stock guys going manual. Same problem with blocks for small block projects. Guys can make power, but they're trying to find blocks that won't break in half.

You just have to decide if you want to keep beating your head against the wall.

FYI on the 400. My buds runs one with a 540 that was build for it by a great Trans guy it won't last more than 2 years. 800hp. He's goin to a glide next year

I am NOT trying to start an argument..........I am stating facts. At a certain HP level a 727 is NOT a good monetary investment. You have a bunch of very expensive, trick parts, in a STOCK case. You want to do that, because you are a diehard Mopar guy, that's fine, but it is NOT a wise investment. For less money going aftermarket, you get a better, lighter, more reliable, safer trans.

Somebody ponies up and builds an aftermarket 727 case and some more affordable internals, we might talk............but that probably is NOT going to happen, so it seems a moot point.

So and so has this car with one that runs high 7s.............that's fine too, but frankly these days, high 7s ain't that fast. Nobody seems to be having a problem with the twin turbo Dart guy that runs Dragweek and his car has a 400. Yeah, he broke it, BUT he also found the parts to fix it at the track. Would that have happened with a high buck 727.......likely NO

So what is in fact the preferable setup to the 727 for a guy that has 1000+ hp and a fair amount of tq in a heavy car and wants to retain 3 gears??

Mine is no where near DT's power level. I can say I've had good results running stock shafts, planets and cases at 150mph@3350lb level. I did strip a front planet at 250 passes.
Doug

Those stock aluminum planets were the 1st to loose it's teeth!

My GTX was 3200lbs and made over 1200hp on the hose. On a 29.5 x 10.5 tire. I shelled everything that could be shelled in a 727. When it got to the point of buying expensive aftermarket output shaft, I threw in the towel and went to a glide. For a 3 speed, the Turbo 400 would be the way to go. They can be built to withstand over 3000hp. It doesn't take a lot for them to hold 1500 with relative ease

There are serious Duramax guys ditching Allisons for built 47rh's in their drag trucks because they shift good and take it.

So th400 can be built in a SFI case so no shield is needed? I assume an adapter plate of some sort is available for mopar bell bolt pattern? And a spacer on the crank? Will it be bulkier that a 727 with a shield as in floor mods required? And after those extras it will still be cheaper than a full tilt 727? Seriously I am just asking as I need to know for my own build.

I believe Reid makes a SFI bell housing for BBM.

Here is ati's price list for help on some of those questions I'm not sure if other companies make them.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/trans/pg/supercase.htm

The case is built for removable bellhousings, so you just need to buy a mopar bellhousing.

Need small block patern for Gen3 hemi

They make those too.
JW also makes them.

With an SFI Turbo case and the bolt on bell for the SBM, you are good to go. No blankets, no shields. It's also a bunch lighter than a 727. The use of the 400 allows a MUCH better converter selection. The Mopar trans are too short from the block to front pump, which severely limits the core choices that FIT. The GM spacing allows nearly unlimited choices. I THINK a 400 fits with no floor pan mods on most cars, but I am not sure. Several on this site have Turbos, maybe they will answer that.

Thanks Monte for that info! Who is the go-to guy for this setup? Its going in an Abody so tunnel would probably need altered which is no big deal at this phase of the build.

Also apologies to the original poster for hijacking thread

Rossler in Ohio or Performance Transmission in Illinois.

Another, often overlooked, advantage of the TH400 is the shifting. No matter how well built a 727 is, there is still an unavoidable overlap at the 2-3 shift while a race-prepared 400 has no overlap; to upshift you merely add another clutch...no release/apply cycle.

Rossler is an option. Not who I use, but a viable option, as is Mark Micke at M&M Transmission. Dave Klaput at Proformance Trans is a 400 guru as well. We have a PTC Turbo 400 in our radial car. They work hand in hand with Dave at Proformance on 400 stuff. A top of the line 400 is virtually indestructible, but expensive. For your needs, even with a good case, I believe you will be in a good 400 cheaper than a 727 and be a better trans. Call any of these guys and they will guide you in the right direction

I wouldn't hesitate to run the 727. It will live.

We ran the same 727 behind our B1 motor for 3 years, and it did not have all the parts yours has. Made about 1050-1100 with a 250 shot of Nitrous every pass in a 3400 lbs car.

Freshened it every winter.

I never caught it low enough to see peak. The highest number I saw was 978 for tq. So maybe 10-20 more at another 200 lower rpm.

For sure the Reid cases belled for a mope in a glide, or 400 are great, and I have both.

I will switch over to a glide later on, mostly because I want to spray it. I think it'll be faster with a 2 speed than a 3 in the eighth. Maybe a 2 speed 400 would be better if I was planning on going faster than I am planning.

I'd like the car to go 30 anythings on motor (to bracket race), and a 99 on spray for giggles.

Well, I'll be dammed...


Somebody not hugging brand X...

I'm glad you brought that up Monte, because that's a good place to start. Matt said he ran a 727 for quite a while, and in our short conversation, he intimated that it kept showing "Hot spots in certain places", that caused him to move on to the 400.

That's my point Why can't we have a grown up conversation about what is breaking, how often service is required, and what was done to prolong the problems, rather than a bunch of rhetoric from one side about "Mopar only", and rhetoric from the other side about "aftermarket transmissions". I've ran glides, and they have many shortcomings in certain applications and levels of builds. Like wise with the turbo 400, just because a Rossler 210 is working for Pro-Mods, that certainly doesn't mean every turbo 400 ever built just became bullet proof!

I'd rather move the conversation away from lightweight Pro-flite stuff, and actually talk about how much of the diesel stuff can be used to make a stronger trans.

I'm over my head, most of our 727s have been stock style internals with just a valve body and deep pan, but we've had cars in the high nines at 3000 to 3500lbs. and we had much longer service life with those than the typical glide in the same situation.

I'm inquisitive because I like the idea of a 727 on Drag Week, versus a glide. If it was a racecar, I'd go full JW Glide in a heartbeat.

I have to agree with Monte, so what if you use a 400 or glide trans, so long as you still run the Mopar engine it is still a MOPAR!!!!!
I have a fab 9 in my truck which is... OH NO a ford based rear end, so what a Reid case 400 will be in my future when funds are right but for now I will be rocking a 727 for a while (I hope lol)

Also I'm glad to hear from others on the 727 strength as I was worried about putting a brake in it and it breaking on me first pass, I think I should be good as I don't make the power as most of you on here.

Like every other guy Billy, I started with a 727 and an 8.75. After breaking more 8.75s than I could count, I went to a Ford. Same with the 727. I ended up with a really good one, but I had a bunch of money in it. Then when it broke again and needed MORE money thrown at it........I moved on to other things.

My reason for suggesting a 400, is because dollar for dollar spent, the 400 is a better trans. JUST talking trans. You will have to factor in driveshaft, shifter, flywheel, whatever else is required to switch. For me it boiled down to being tired of constantly breaking the 727 and having to pull it out and spend more money on it. If I was going to spend MORE, I just didn't think it was wise to keep funneling money in a trans with a stock case

I understand why you would suggest a turbo 400. I just feel like it might be worth it for someone who has already killed some 727s to spell out the order in which the band aids need to be applied.

I've pretty much decided that the Indy 512 lowdeck in the corner will get a tunnel ram and two foggers, and that's as much hp as I'll ever have on tap.

For guys wanting to swap to GM trans, Sid, and Keith Neal @ Neal Racing trans in ga are great guys with tons of fast stuff out there. Perfect reputation, and perfect to deal with. Very much like Cope, for a Mope.

Assuming you have a good trans, with proper clearances and some of the shift overlap problems addressed......Some guys never get this far.......then you move on to whats going to break. First is usually the alum planet. Rings the center out. So you upgrade to the steel pinion planet. After this, it's usually the output shaft and then finally the input. So at this point you have $1100 worth of shafts in the trans, along with your $400 steel planets. Assuming you had a nice trans before, with alum drums etc, you are approaching big bucks in a factory cased trans.

My car was 3200lbs, 10.5 tire, 446" motor with a single fogger. Never had bigger than a .040 jet in it. It would 60ft in the high 1 teens. I had everybody in the world work on the trans and it had GOOD parts. It was out for SOMETHING every other race. Broken hard parts, smoked clutches.....something. I put the glide in it and it would go the season no problem. Plus was faster

ok your 400 and your power guide works great. the bottom line is the chevy guys built 2 trans to work with there power level . I am saying we need more guys working on 727s to be at the same power level. not guys like you jumping the fence because you could not keep yours togather . by the way the 65 Plymouth was at mason dixon dragway on Saturday and went 1.15 in the 60 and 4.99 in the 1/8 and he builds his trans in his basement

OK, maybe I was wrong when I suggested a grown up conversation. Can
I get a show of hands? How many guys tossing around opinions on this have actually had a 727, 904, C-4, C-6, Turbo 400, Turbo 350, and Glide apart on a build table and know what makes each one tick? Just wondering aloud. Forgive me if I think that has merit in this discussion.

My first Glide for my SST car was a stock case with stock 1.76 internals and a Hughes Pro Brake...darned thing nickel and dimed me to death!!

I have ran quite a few torqueflites. With power the planetary will pull the splines out. With the right valve body and band adjustment the 2-3 shift is great. And can be proven with driveshaft data. The converter is shallow as Monty mentioned. I was able to built an extremely durable 727 for less than $2,000.

Went powerglide and bought what I was told to buy and had a lot more money in it with stock case and jw bell. But, it last pretty well also with about half tge clutch life with much more line pressure than 727.

With my bellhousing business I get a lot of gm transmission builds using Reid cases. There is no comparison from a stock case to the Reid. Extremely good quality as well as the clean tunnel without sheilds. I am finding the superglide is a costly transmission plus the grand in cost of case. The turboglide will definitely give you sticker shock. But, I go with what I am told to use. I don't know what can be gotten away with. With the 727, I know whats needed and what is suggested.

I love me some old torqueflites. But even proflites make the change to a deeper converter, Montes spot on about that. And tge stock case is not blow proof. If there was a Reid quality case with a deeper converter pocket I'd recommend a torqueflite. But, there is not. With the quality of aftermarket parts if you have the funds and ability to change mounts go tge aftermarket gm based tranny. I have pump adapters for torqueflite to Reid for a reason. With a relatively low torque R5 358 the 904 is faster than any other automatic. But, awkward and junky with the necessary sheilds.

When I got to the point where I was breaking the output, and twisting the input shafts, I was forced to make a decision. I talked to locals who all told me to go turbo400.
I was intimately familiar with my trans by that point. I looked at some disassembled trans' at hipsters. The stock shafts in a turbo 400 are not the size of a t/f at their minimal cross section. At that point, I figured I had to buy shafts for either, so why change the car that was already set up for the t/f? I realize now that the shaft design has alot to do with the strength, along with the material.
Anyway, at that time, there weren't any guys locally that could give me an example of a car comparable to mine in weight, tq and gear combo using a t400. I went the A&A T/F$$$$ route. Didn't have to change the car, and had a very reliable trans.
My decision was definitely not a brand loyalty decision. Car was a gm body, chrysler engine, ford rear end and some garbage truck parts
All that being said, I now would go with the t400.

Never had those on the table, but, my 727 broke on relatively low hp. Never blew a 904. Buddy's Turbo 400 aka never fails. I've puked a turbo 350. Stock glide damn near bulletproof but HEAVY for a 2-speed. C4/C6/FMX is absolute garbage, as my buddies 67 stang can attest too. But by far the strongest tranny I ever seen was a stock 4L80e. Any stock tranny that lives behind a 1000+hp Truck deserves respect. Next 360 I do is getting the 4L60e (same bellhousing as a turbo 350/400).

That said I understand the purest who wants to run only Mopar parts and that's great! But I never had a guy look under mt cars to see what trans I'm running. And if they do and complain.. well buy it and put whatever you want.

You guys that are breaking the cases.. what is breaking
on the cases.. is it the tail shaft or what(I'm not
talking about blowing a drum to blow the case)... and what
king of set up are you running as in front, mid plates and
what trans mount.. I myself never run a solid trans mount ever

Chevy guys didn't do anything. It was the aftermarket who saw a need and filled it. To this point, no company has seen the need to sink a bunch of money into making a 727 case and they won't. Because there is no need. Plus as mentioned many times here, but you just can't seem to accept it, the 400 is a BETTER race trans, because of converter choices and shift overlap.

You say I jumped the fence because I couldn't keep mine together...........damn right I did. When I was still wringing off the BEST shafts you could buy at the time, please enlighten me to what I SHOULD have done to fix that.

What's best for your application is everything. I took a 904 out and put a Glide in for consistency and low gear ratio because the car was light. Before that it was in a 3000# footbrake car and worked great for that. I like Torqueflites too. But they have their limits, bellhousing depth, stock cases and issues with high RPMs and big horsepower. In a street/strip car, class car or typical stock body, 1.30 or even 1.20s 60' deal, it's what I would use.

In a strictly race deal, starting line ratio is a critical tuning choice. Big horsepower requires taking gear out of it. A Glide is fine for that until it starts breaking. Then you look at a 3 or 2 speed 400 with the right gear set. Packaging is another concern. A stock 727 is substantially longer than other options.

It's all about what's the best choice for YOU. Not everyone is trying to accomplish the same thing.

I agree with this. Does every car need a glide or a Turbo, of course not..........But what really pisses me off is when you get chastised for making the switch, by some purist, who has his head so far somewhere they can't see the light. They tell you what you should NOT have done, but offer up no other suggestions.

Wonder if Jim Kinnett had to put up with that crap when he had a 12 bolt under his SS/AA car. What about the loads of Modified and Gas guys who ran Top Loaders because the HEMI boxes eat main clusters. Wonder if they had to hear that crap

I'm not an expert by any means but have done a few 727's, 904's TH350's and a bunch of TH400's and one or two C4's. All the 727's I built were to support 700hp or less. A few TH400 for 1000-1200HP. I would say that a TH400 can easily be built to handle more power but it does still take aftermarket parts. The intermediate sprag is weak and even with a good early 34 element factory one is living on borrowed time at 700HP and above. Any good TH400 build would need the large 36 element Caddy sprag(otherwise known as Pro-mod sprag) and usually going to cost at least $500 on one that's been retrofitted to a factory iron drum and more for 7075 aluminum. Clutch capacity is OK but requires more line pressure than a 727 because of there smaller clutch and piston area. Some prefer the Ginner spragless conversions but basically turn it into a 727 anyway with the shift timing issues and challenges that come with it.
A lot of the TH400 factory case's need a lot of work to make them acceptable for HP use. Most of the ones I see need to have the VB surface stoned because the factory machining was so rough it would never seal an aftermarket valve body without a gasket. Finding a good pump is becoming harder since a lot of them see wear.
For me I prefer a TH400 because of the flexibility of the hydraulic modifications that can be performed over a 727.
AG.

I've heard that once you get to around 1,000 HP you're usually reaching the limits of a reliable 727. I realize there are other factors than just HP, but is this good guideline.

Like my budget would allow such a build ... lol

Billy I did limited time building Diesel transmissions. I have one in my parts truck that handled 416hp at the rear wheels in a 7000 lb 4x4. The stock trans actaully held up pretty well with just a vavlebody and tighter stock type convertor ... welded steel stator and better lockup clutch material ... from Diesel Transmision Tech in Abbotsford BC. When I putthe big turbo on it and let someone take it for a ride is when the shortcomings of the 4 clutch front clutch reared it's ugly head.

The current trans has 6 clutches in a 4 clutch drum and I think 10 clutches in the OD direct and an extra clutch in the OD clutch pack. It has a TCS billet input shaft and hub ... Diesels towing heavy would split the hub and/or twist off the input shaft ... BW hi energy bands and clutches thru out and a Cryo'd output shaft ... I twisted the original output shaft off with my foot on the brake building boost to do a burnout. That trans has about 130k miles of various abuse since being built with about 1000ft lbs going thru it at various times.

I'm surprised that Chrysler didnt make the bell
housing area deeper for a better conv on the diesel
and 518 type.. for the auto trans they had/have big
torque conv issues

So with the Pro Flight / Pro Trans mods that they are doing for smaller motors, how are those company's going about making modifications to accept gm converters? What are they changing to make this happen? Are they using a spacer and changing the input shaft?

Just curious since there are so many being used for in NA SB classes. A different application than most of course

I thought it was bigger? The convertor on the diesel is big and heavy. But I never compared the bell pattern/size to a BB or SB 727 before.

If you make 1000+ hp why would you need the deep gearset of a 3 speed trans?

Jeff

Maybe I'll see what they are.. I have a 727 and a 518
sitting in the shop... I know the 518 has a big conv
but I didnt think it was much deeper... I have the stock
conv for the 518 but all I have are 8" for the 727 and it
thinner

Totally different bell on a diesel. Not even close to a bb or sb bell.
The non lockup diesel trans converter is shorter than the lock up converter. the difference of converter length in the diesel is made up in the engine bell/adapter, which is removable from the block.
I don't know why a spacer couldn't be used on the gas engine trans to get better converters to fit.

A 1" thick midplate allows the gm depth converter. Slightly different pump gear notch and turbo spline hub in converter.

I didnt know they had a spacer but that would give
more space for a better conv
EDIT
Is the bolt pattern on the diesel the same as the
518 SB unit.. all I ever looked for was the gas units

No. totally different. same as v10 though.

I thought the V-10 used the SB pattern.. or use to
(I'm thinking Viper)

Truck v10.
I can't say for sure what the viper v10 has for a bell. I've put clutches in a few, but never really compared the two.
I will say that the viper v10 is a deep skirt block and has a different starter mount, so I would say "no" as far as being the same as sb.

As Leon said, various companies make a spacer to go between block and trans, to allow more flexible core choices. I had this on my car, but it can cause firewall issues on some. We all know this can be an issue, as we see posts here about flexplate bolts hitting converters, rubbing, whatever. The space is just too small to use certain cores.

Again, I am NOT advocating that EVERY Mopar needs a GM style tranny, but when the HP levels get high, it just makes sense. Personally I hate having to run blankets and or shields. Blankets trap heat, are heavy, get oil soaked and hang low, plus are a general pain. Shields can cause floor pan issues and anything other than the full coverage CSI won't do any good anyway if you blow parts out. So for those reasons I want an SFI case in MY race car. And while not cheap by any means, a full tilt glide or 400 can be virtually bulletproof. We have had a 2 speed 400 in our radial car for 3 years, make over 2400hp and have not had the first issue with it. We have it looked at every winter, but has yet to need anything. Before that, we had a glide that was trouble free other than one broken 1.69 gear set in 5 years. New stuff is also always coming out. Right now you can get a 3 speed 400 with a 1.69 low, 1.30 second and other combinations as well. Our 2 speed has a 1.48 low, with first gear totally removed and weighs the same as a glide.

At the time, I had pretty much the best parts you could buy in a 727 and could not keep it from wringing out parts at a little over 1200hp probably. It wasn't a build problem, just a parts problem. There are likely better parts now, but based on experience, I would NEVER go that route from scratch, for a big power car.

The Pro-Flite deal is another animal. Those are mostly behind high winding smallblocks in light cars. They also generally use small converters, so the core choices are not as limited

Just adding that my car is somewhere in the 1050-1100 hp range and has a 727. Good steel planetary setup, billet steel drum, and a bolt in sprag. That's about it. It's held up so far.
8.90s at 150 mph at 3900 lbs.

If/when it breaks, I'll be pricing my options.

I was thinking about this when you see comp cars and heads up N/a cars running them.....

Carry on....

Even Ma Mopar knows. The 2015 Drag Pak Challengers have a TH400.

Seriously? Hmmm learn something new every day.

Yep..........and previous Drag Packs came with glides. Think they all have 9" Ford rears

Well I did know that the Torqueflite 8-speed is actually a disguised BMW ZF8HP 8-speed.

If anyone was going to need aftermarket 727 cases, it would be Pro Trans. 727 cases will eventually become very hard to come by, so a new case would come out of necessity. It would however, have some modifications to your standard 727 case.

Haven't heard that name in a WHILE! Frank, at Kinnetts did machine work for me in the 80's. I even bought some of his old hemi stuff. They cut the blocks so low on the deck, and lighten them so much you had to run more stop leak than water lol.

doesn't A&A make new case's . not sfi

Are using a Transbrake??

...and there's a lil trans shop in Cal that can spin that around:

OUTPUT SHAFTS==
"you can now install a Pro Trans 727-904 trans in a new drag pack Challenger that comes from the factory with a TH400. It is the same overall length as the TH400 and have TH400 input and output spline. It is also set up to use your existing Reid Racing bell housing that came on the TH400. Just bolt on and install into your car"

No opinion.... just keeping it interesting.

If i could get a 4l80E to work with my pushbuttons, i'd have one in next week.
i have a '65 cable shift 727. on;y thing that hasn't been upgraded are the shafts.
it's a 4,500lb car that makes just under 640lbft....

They have a fab 9"... at least in the design builds

As we all know most Mopar's don't have a good enough cylinder head to make enough power to break a 727 anyway, right? If I got to the point where I was braking stuff I'd have no problem switching to a 400 / 9" axle. There are 4 of us that hang out and race low 9/high 8 second Mopar's. They range in race trim from 3000-3750lbs. The two lightest are Glides, mine is a 727, the third is 727 w/brake, the heaviest. Mine is next heaviest but is a foot brake, the glides have trans brakes. Mine by far has the most passes. Both the aftermarket glides have broken expensive (in my book over $600) aftermarket parts after being modified. Mine has an aluminum drum ($600) and a Super Sprag ($200), the rest is used stuff. The 727 with a brake has a good drum ($600), super sprag ($200) and a steel front planet ($450). Both 727's hit the stock aluminum planet pretty good, the trans brake car rolled the stock sprag. Mine got another stock planet as the first one went 250+ passes. Neither have hurt anything costly after the above mentioned mods. I believe a M&M 400 would be awesome. It would also cost more than I have in my motor.
Doug

My old combo 408 with 93 pump gas, single 200 shot and foot brake went 9.26 at 145mph and I'm rocking a 727. A Reid ultra case th400 will be in my future plans but for now I hope to get away with a transbrake in my 727 for awhile till I can build and get the parts for the th400 swap.

No. The trans has a brake in it, but I don't use it. Always footbraked the car.

Fab 9" is illegal. Can't have that.

That was what I seen on the first drag pac car

They call it a 8 & 4 quarter diff..

Being the Drag Paks are not a standard production vehicle they can probably designate the differentials how ever they please. If the 9" isn't legal how do they get by running glides & T400s?

It's legal if it was approved and installed at the factory or contractor when the car was built. Probably has a Mopar part number also. "Special production run" approved by NHRA. The new FS classes don't follow traditional Stock rules.

I wondered if that was the case.

It seems to me that a lot of the NHRA faster Comp. eliminator cars ran Pro Trans Proflytes in the 1200 + HP cars several years back I know of one very fast PSCA 10.5 Outlaw car that ran one also with no problems several years ago. He switch motors (stepped up to a BAE Hemi motor on alcholol away from Q16) and switch back to a Mikes glide and then later to a Rossler 3 speed trans.

Does the TH400 have an inherent strength advantage by basic design, or is it like everything else Chevy, it's the strength designed into it by the aftermarket (aftermarket case of example) that makes it better?

LoL

In addition to the large aftermarket, the TH400 has a power-on-power design where upshifting simply involves applying more clutches. A 727 has to deal with apply-release mechanics in the 2-3 overlap, which can break things or rapidly wear parts if managed improperly.

I use TH400's. Love em. Once you buy the bellhousing it's easy. Easy to build, easy to find parts, unlimited converter options. I use the upgraded sprags, torrington the thrust and a cheap snap ring support which helps the case strength. Mainly though if you're making horsepower TH400's are a good choice simply based on converters.

So, what do you do for starter, flywheel etc? Are these included or sourced from the bell manufacturer? Sorry, never went this route.

I have flexplates and crank adapters for Reid and ATI. All SFI approved. Also provide the information to make everthing fit including starter and converter spacing. I prefer to make this up without starter spacing.

So what does this car 60' on the footbrake?

Best 60' on motor is 1.320.
Best 60' on nitrous is 1.311, but unsure if it tripped the beams w/ the front tires or something under the car b/c the front end came down somewhere close to the 60'.
My best pass ever was a 1.409 sixty, definitely tripped w/ the back tires on that pass.

I used a JW bellhousing and flexplate. I think the flex plate comes with a spacer ring. The bellhousing comes with a machined bushing for the starter snount and I had to use a factory shim on the starter.

For what its worth.. I have a B1 motor, real close to 4 digits in power and like many, I became stubborn and wanted to stay with a 727.. After breaking it 3 times in one year and throwing lots of $$$ at it.. I gave in and went to the Glide..

One less headache now...

Here is a picture of a late night rebuild at Mopars at the Strip, when the trans let go in the burnout box on the 3rd hit..

Thanks again to Al and Steven Alguire... Jay Waxler, Curtis G and others who stayed up late to help rebuild it..

So what part was it that broke? Specifically. Each time.

My experience was one thing breaks, you fix it and then the NEXT weak point shows up. Fix that and the cycle continues.

Obviously you COULD put the best of everything in one from jump, but the cost of that, the realization it's in a stock case still and what you can get an aftermarket glide or 400 for, tends to have guys move away from that option.

Another thing to look at..........if you don't have a spare, break it at the track and don't have parts, you are likely done. If you DO break a glide or 400, the guy in the next trailer likely has one. When you go hundreds of miles from home to race, that's an important consideration.

We carried a spare glide and needed it once in 3 years. It was a 3K trans, so you could look at it as 3K just sitting there, but it was a twin to our other trans. You COULD build a bit lower cost unit as strictly a spare. We don't carry a spare 400, but so far, 2 years in a radial car, ours has been perfect. Of course it's a REALLY good one. Bruno size input, all billet stuff, etc.

he didn't have a spare at the track.... and we found a 727 in the swap area and had him back together in a matter of hours. I don't carry a spare, nor do I make the HP many of you do, but get a few guys with their beer on and mountains can be moved....

Using Monte's analogy here this trans was at "step 1" on the "next weak point" list and that assessment was made after the teardown . While in the burnout we noted the wheels quit spinning. Back in the pits it verified we had fluid flow so the pump was spinning. Out it came and it was found the hub that the input shaft is pressed into cracked and was now just spinning freely inside. We tore the trans down and to be honest, other than some Kolene clutches and steels and an old Griner t-brake, this trans was STOCK TO THE BONE. Input shaft, front drum, kickdown apply lever, aluminum front planet.... pretty impressive actually for the HP in front of it. This repair got him through the weekend.

I believe after this adventure the trans was fitted with a nice input steel front hub, a billet steel front drum, a thick kickdown apply strut (old stock one had a bow to it when we "fixed" it at the track), but the next area of concern.... aluminum front planetary... yep, not sure how many passes Don had on it, but it knocked the splines right out and this I believe is where he threw in the towel. Don was gracious enough to donate the trans to me since he knew I was more "mo-tard" than himself and wouldn't ever veer away from a TF .

To be honest, I'm not a transmission guy, I'll pull one out from the car, or I'll put it in, but there is no way I'll open one up without adult supervision..

But each time, it was on the input side.. The first one I believe was the planetary.. The 2nd time was the input shaft and on the last time.. we didnt even bother to open her up.. we just gave it away and hoped the guy we gave it to, could use the parts inside..

So after the 3rd breakdown, it was an easy decision for me.. $3500 for a PG (complete) or $5000+ for a built 727 that still has a stock case and requires a shield or blanket.. Not only was it a financial decision, but a PG is supposed to be a more consistent transmission for us bracket racers.. Only needing to shift once

I do have a pic of the broken input shaft..

Did that twice before buying a GOOD one,,,,,,,,,,,,,