New Stroker Combo Going Together - Thoughts?

Well I have a new short block going together. I finally decided on a Bill Mitchell aluminum block due to the lack of iron out there. It's a 557 cu in (4.5 bore x 4.375 crank), flat top gas ported pistons, total seal rings, steel rods. Should be around 14 to 1 with my heads. Haven't picked a cam yet. Here's the challenge.... I'm putting a small head on the motor with hopes of upgrading in a few years. The current heads are EZ-1's from compuflow (345int / 245exh). Now that I'm way into the build I have fears it's not going to make that much power due to the small head. The top end is a single 4 Indy intake with a 1050 pro systems dom. Thoughts? Cam specs?

Screw it together and go have FUN as it will run great. Without knowing exactly how fast you want to go I did about the same thing. When I built my Keith Black 572 the cam was spected for my B1 heads but My Indy 440-1 heads were ready sitting on the shelf so I threw them on. At that time they were flowing under 350cfm and although my Daytona was light (2300 pounds) it still went 8.40@160mph with a bad brand new BG400 fuel pump on it. Cam was in the 800 plus lift area, Indy intake, 1050 carb.

That's what I'm thinking. The car will be lighter with the aluminum block. Should be around 3300 with me. I'd like to see 9.30's on a good day. I'd be happy with that.

Other info: 5000 stall, 727, 4.88 in a Dana

Depends on how much lift you're going to throw at it. I have EZ heads on my 514 and it goes over 900 hp on the dyno. No doubt it would make more with bigger heads but no reason you can't make more than 800 hp with your combo as long as you give it some cam.

Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel better about this. My current springs bind at .75. Sounds like I may need to go to a spring that allows more lift. I also run 1.5 rockers might need 1.6.

I went with 1.7 rockers on the B1's and I think 1.65's on the 440-1 heads. The only other thing you may want to consider is if and when you want to step up to a different head are the pistons valve reliefs going to be OK. My pistons were Wiseco Pistons made for 440-1 heads so I had Tom Hemphill go ahead and cut them for my B1 heads so the engine was balanced and ready for the switch-over.

good thinking... it did cross my mind. I do like the B1's.

Well you aren't going to make a ton of power with 1.50 rocker arms. You have to run a 0.500 lobe lift cam to get .750 valve lift and that is just about the end of the line for a stock Mopar setup. At 0.500 lobe lift you start to run into problems with the oil gallery unless you have bushed lifter bores.

On my EZ heads I run 1.85 Jesel rocker arms and .890 lift. But it takes a serious investment in time and money to make that happen. It is easier to switch heads than to put that much work into a set of EZ heads.

Thanks Andy. I'm seriously thinking going to a 1.6 - 1.7 rocker to get in the .800 lift range and live with the heads for a while. I do have bushed lifter bores. My engine builder prefers the higher ratio rockers.

You buying rockers anyway......put some ratio on it. Go 1.8s

Thanks Monte. Which companies out there make a rocker larger then 1.6 besides jesel?

T&D for one

My advice is that if you're going to push the lift up into the 0.800 range then you really do want to invest in some high quality rocker arms such as T&D. I converted my EZ heads over to Jesel rocker arms but that takes machine work and some special parts so that isn't the path for everyone. A T&D shaft system should be a bolt on and T&D makes killer parts. But anything over 0.800 lift becomes an R&D project. You'll need to spend some time sorting out retainers and locks and spring cups to get enough installed height. You'll also need to spend some time researching valve springs in order to find a set that clears the rocker arms but still has the capability of handling .800+ lift. Unless you're really familiar with all of this work you might be better off sending the heads to Porter Racing and just having Dwayne sort it all out for you. He can do this stuff in his sleep. Or maybe CompuFlow already set the heads up for you??

Nick did set the heads up completely from machine work to springs and retainers. He set everything up for the .750 lift comp roller he had ground for the last motor. Not sure if the retainers are correct for the higher lift. I do know I would have to go to the next comp spring to get past the coil bind. Maybe it's best like you said to have them looked at by a pro.

You're gonna need around 800hp for those 9.30's. 345cfm cam in the .770ish range should get you there. Your well on your way buddy.

Heck yea go for it Jack. I knew Andy F. has made 800 hp on EZ heads as he states that in his Mopar eng book. Build it and you might be surprised how good it will run. Good luck to you and dad with it and tell your dad to let me know when you guys are ready to take it out with the new eng. Ron

Thanks guys. To be continued.....

Okay, if you already have a complete combo designed to work at .750 then I'd bolt it together and run it. It might make the power that you need and it might not but you might as well try it. Run it a season and then you'll know.

I finished dyno testing a 511 C.I. 400 iron block stroker motor for a local customer yesterday with a set of Indy 440 EZ M.W. intake port size heads, I don't know how to tell if thier the 295 or 345 versions , with a old Comp Cams solid lifter cam, 275@.050 with .635 net lift with checking springs, 12.0 to 1 compression on 108 octane race gas. I was disappointed with the 655 HP it made with a Indy 400-2 intake and the Proform 950 CFM carb. I tried a Holley 1050 CFM Dominator with the tapered adapter and it didn't pick up 2 hp with simialr AFR I should have used a set of 440-1 CNC ported heads I have on that short block instead of those EZ Hindsight is always 20/20

Cab, EZ heads can make good power, but if you're running basically ootb EZ-1's, you're definitely leaving power on the table. If that motor had CNC 295's or 325's on it, it should have made quite a bit more power than that.

My feeling for the OP's build...... 345cfm EZ's (from my bench) would represent mildly cleaned up heads. Not what I would use if I were anticipating making 800hp.
That being said, I'd still use them as is, with a suitable cam that will work with the hardware that's already on the heads.
Save your money and use it towards bigger heads that are more in line with those power levels(800hp+).

I'm thinking the same thing. Throw it together and baseline. It should run better then the 500" plus 140lbs lighter. I have 3 different rollers on the shelf. The old .690 comp, the .75 crane and a custom comp .750 / .730 286 / 300 @ .050. My engine builder feel is too large

What rockers were you running before?
Do you know what part number springs are on the heads, and the installed height?

Rockets are 1.5 crane rollers. I'll have to look at my sheets for the spring number. Pretty sure they were comp springs.

Won't go 9.30 maybe 9.80

That's what I'm afraid of. The 500" with the same heads went 9.80's

Fast68 they are comp 943. Not sure in the install height

Installed at 1.900-1.920 that's a decent spring for a moderate rate roller cam up to about .660-.670 net lift.
And, at roughly 600lbs open pressure, that's all the spring you want to use with those rockers.

IMO, you don't have the valvetrain components necessary to run any of those big cams you have.

The exhaust ports on those heads are rather small for that sized motor, along with the in/ex ratio not being ideal, so I would lean towards a cam with 10-12 deg split to try and help extend the upper end of the power band.

Yikes we have been running these cams for the last 7 years. The last cam was the custom grind that had 14 deg split. That was Nicks theory also. That cam actually ran really well. Thanks for the input. I'll keep you guys posted on where I end up.

I don't know where you have those springs installed, but if you were running over .700 lift with them, you may want to have them tested before reusing them.
The .690 cam would be okay with them...... After lash and deflection it would be .660ish lift at the valve with those crane gold 1.5's.

Hmm... Thanks Sounds like it's time for springs regardless. Nick never told me or recorded install height. They were tested last season and were still good. I do know we still had room before coil bind with the .750 roller. Thanks for the input!

Comp shows a coil bind height of 1.160 for the 943 spring.
Installed at 1.900(the "recommended" installed height), that puts the spring into coil bind at .740 net valve lift.

The old 289/.690" Comp is no slouch, easy on parts, and can make very good power.
We've seen 849hp 753 Trq using it on a 540 with ported INDY "SR" heads, which granted have a better Exh than the EZ Head, nonetheless, pretty forgiving old grind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWhkC4dAI0

We've moved on to a newer SF750 Bench nowadays, so no point going over "where" we had the SR's on the old Bench(they took us some time), but I suspect not that much better than your EZ's.

Wow.... That is good results. I really like the .690 also. Thanks for posting.

Nice care to share that build..

Sure, whadda ya wanna know ?
Built/Machined/Porting etc., originally way back in the late 90's early 2000, the video was after refreshening again back in 2010, cliff runnered up with it again that year at the MATS show.
We call it "Ol faithful" because the Engine must have 3000 hits on it over the 15-16 years, with freshenings about every 4-500. Doing VERY WELL for what it is, but Cliff does equally good with thermally stabilizing and taking care of the maintenance.
He knows how to run and maintain it.... so no "problems" whatsoever.

Pretty K.I.S.S. build.
Mega Block, now @ 4.530"
Eagle 4.250 Crank W/2.200"
7.100 Eagles W/2000 upgrade
JE 2618 Dome Piston, "off the shelf"
Std Speed Pro 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 Ringpack, Plasma Moly/Ductile/ SSOU 50 (std tension)
INDY SR's, heavily worked(but no holes or epoxy)
INDY & #8896 Holley progressive 4500
Comp 287"? or 289?(I forget)/.690"... the first grind.
Comp std Roller Lifters(back for rebuild each freshening.
Used to run Crane Golds, which we would just cycle out about ever 3 seasons just for good measure, never a problem, but moved to Harlands a few years back when Gold's went nla with Crane down.

This particular Engine could ignite a very interesting discussion regarding what is "optimum" quench distance on a 4.500" Bore Engines. Suffice to say, our testing does NOT support sub .050", which we consider a 4.00" Bore Engine number ?
Just my thoughts, no wars wanted.

Going to pick the new motor up next weekend. Now it's time to get it in the car.

[img]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jack62972/media/image1_zpsdlqjfiyd.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1[/img]

Well it's been a year and the motor is in the car. Should be headed to the track in a few weeks. Attached is a short video of it running. So, far I'm pretty pleased with the way it sounds.

https://youtu.be/aOUJ3EAl7Fg

Have you considered going right to a better head now? I didn't when i had the chance years ago and painted myself into a financial corner, and am now limited to 440-1 heads. You might want to sharpen your pencil and see what it would take to build what you want now, rather than after you put $$$$$$ in good rockers, the right cam, converter, gears, etc. In my case i would have gone with B1Mc heads if i had thought enough about my future goals. Instead I started with pocket ported heads, then had bigger valves and a full port done, and finally tried an even bigger intake valve combo. I would have some $$ left over had i done it right the first time.

I hear ya Greg. I started thinking about b1's too late in the game. I already had my pistons. I have a friend of mine trying to sell me his -1s now. For this year I'll run it it sits. My ez's flowed 345 when Nick did them and this year I upgraded to pro flow valves so I might have gained a tiny bit. Anyways the short block is in good shape. BMP block, Molnar crank and rods and racetek Pistons. .005 in the hole with a small dome. Makes 557 inches.