9.2" Deck R3 365" W2, possible Engine Masters project

Basically a complete 1/2 mile asphalt oval track motor.

It's got some good stuff, 48 degree lifters, only a 4.03 bore so plenty of meat left (4.08" max) , complete jesel rocker system, 15 degree W2's nice valve gear, oil pan and race pulleys.

Hollis says just a hone rering and go which wouldn't be bad. I've always wanted an R block bullet proof bottom end to build a 'mild' 700-750 horse turbo with. Maybe a 3.7-3.79" crank D dish slugs and a ported Holley W2 pro dominator with a sheetmetal EFI blow through.

Dizusters early B smallblock sleeper really getting me stoked to do one.

Then again a streetable 383" W2 motor done up like a late 70's pro stocker with dual EFI would be really cool too....even if it sits in a stand for a while.

I know the Ford/AMC guys with 9.2 decks use a 4" stroke 6" rod combo but I'm thinking a destroke to 3.9" with the 2" '327' journal 6.125" rods ( I have a set) might rev a little better and bob a bit lighter too.

Talked to Hollis and maybe he and Larry Smith and I could buddy up on an engine masters motor with it...or maybe for another collective Moparts entry, who knows? It was worth picking up, even if i dont have any real firm plans for it. Couldn't pass it up. Worst case, resell it to somebody who needs it, I wont let it sit long.

Thoughts? ideas?

Pic

Sell that "junk" to me, thats a thought.....

LOL

I forget what the compression is but if you have
something to put it in and you can adjust the comp
to do a turbo... do it... I dont have the R-block
but do have a 59% 416 and its nice to have some
torque for a change... if the price is right I'd
buy it and put it in the race car

Yeah I bought all of it Mike.

A turbo slug on this freshened up shortblock with a turbo spec roller cam would make rediculous power and torque..... for not a whole lot of additional $$$. Its kinda what I've always wanted to do to a small block but was always a bit nervous about bottom end strength on a stock block. That won't be an issue with this bad boy and the combination of the bullet proof valvetrain (and with boost it only needs moderate RPM to get there) means it would be lots of fun for a long long time.

I talked to Bullet and they said 48 degree Flat Tappets are near impossible to get, however 48 degree and 59 degree rollers are the same cost...do long as I don't need much more than about 112 lobe seperation going turbo, I can probably figure out a work-around for that when the time comes.

That's good to hear. My 380 has a flat tappet in it now. I figured I'd have to go roller to get some kind of streetability in it when the time came. Good to know there available. Not that it really matters since I'd need to get one anyways but did Bullet give you a cost on one?

In case you go the 3.79" route, I have some in stock.

Rod

What size journal, Rod? I'd like to do a 2"

Just doing some rough calcs, should be able to crank 750hp at 370 cubes with about 15-16 PSI, getting stoked now

2.100" SBC

Rod

Thanks, Rod,

I'll probably offest grind this 3.58 crank to a 3.7 so I can use the 2.00" journal rods I have in hand.....unless it turns out the short block has some long rods in it on a 2.1" SBC journal (it's possible) and then I might consider the 3.79" route. I think a lot of Mopar circle track guys run super light SBC pistons with .927 pins (so the chance it also has the 2.125" mopar pins trimmed to 2.1" SBC isn't much of a stretch)....so let me see what combo is inside first.

I've heard of guys getting some really strong flow numbers out of the 15 degree heads, the jesel gear will really give me peace of mind turning up the wick.

The oiling in the R blocks seems so much better than the stock blocks, I'm thinking the MRL roller lifters should drop right in.

Sent a PM to Dizuster, really warming up to a Turbo build.

What happened to the Power Adder Forum? Don't make me go to YB just to find some Tech anymore!

If I wasn't so old and set in my ways I would play with one of those turbo thing-me's too.

9.20 deck dry sump block? the whole small block R block scene confuses me enough without adding a turbo into the mix. Fascinating engine you have there.... assuming some series with an iron head rule.

No it's a wet sump but it was a 1/2 mile asphalt oval track motor that ran a 2bbl

Update:

Turbo may be on hold, we (Hollis Page, Larry Smith at HP Engines and I) may be entering the Engine masters Small Block Challenge on 2016 using all the "good stuff" as the foundation. We're scouring the rules to make sure everything here will comply.

They have a no motor plate restriction but this block is cast and pre-tapped (3 - 3/8" bosses) for side mounted motor mounts.

I'm familiar with Larry on Facebook. It looks like he does some good work. What are the rules and goals for this contest?

Should be able to push 700 hp N/A only.

Back in like 2003 several of us on Moparts were involved in one of the very first Engine Masters contests, it was a lot of fun and for all of us who were involved, we all got to know eachother really really well and all learned from one another, no egos, no bickering...disagreements??? Sure we did but we talked them through....respectfully like buddys over a beer...really fun times. Miss that.

This may be another chance to do that...if the Moparts community wants to come together and help, I'm up for it.

Larry Smith has sooo much ( 30+ years) experience with top tier 358" Nascar motors and Hollis is such a meticulous builder and he's been to the EM arena before....so it should be Really interesting what we can come up with. Larry will know just the optimum runner size to run.

I have a Holley pro dominator W2 that I think we may try with a custom sheet metal top for the ( rules governed) single 4150 carb. i have a couple nice pro systems 1000HP carbs in hand too. I think we can make near 700 with the 15 degree W2's, whats gonna be tricky is to get it all in by the 7500 rpm rules limit.

Most hp/tq per cube average wins.

What's cool is we have most of the key hard parts already in-hand. Inthinkmin the right hands an old school W2 can hold its own against the modern LS and Hemi in terms of hp/cube efficiency in the 370-ish cube range, especially with a rock solid 48 degree/jesel valvetrain and a bulletproof bottom end. It'll be fun either way, that's the main thing!!

It would be Wize to read the intake rules closer. J.Rob

I remember a Single 4150, I didnt see anything that outlawed TR's, but i was trying to read it at work off a pdf....on my phone.

Could use the indy I suppose

Edit: Didnt see the TR prohibited at first glance, just did though....oh well :-(

A 1000 hp pro systems carb will be plenty for 370" at 7,500 only needs 883 cfm and that's using 1.1 VE. A Mopar performance M1 water heated manifold is decent with work. It has decent length runners, decent size plenum area. Work good with 1" spacer. The Indy has the longest runners besides the TR out of all the cast intake options. It has a pretty big plenum so that's good for revs, and runner length is good for torque. Just depends on how much you want to favor hp/tq, or maybe in between if you can. The Victor is a good option as well, and the cheapest I believe. All of these intakes will need work. Welding, epoxy, tons of grinding, etc if willing to take it that far. Line of sight, straightest shot to the head possible, along with the correct length runner, and plenum size. Also add custom made spacers under the flanges. My thoughts.

I am behind you boys 100% Go Get'em!!
John Kasse ( many time winner) says it is all in the cam and the headers--he said working on headers is key to a win!
Good Luck!!!!!!!!

J.Rob

A large part of it is the headers and in Smallblock Shootout this year you are free to try anything you can. The manifold is also a huge part the EMC. J.Rob

The reason so many EM motors use long stroke combos is simple, piston speed is a product of stroke regardless of bore and a long stroke gives the motor momentum as the dyno brake is applied, if you can't get out of the basement you can't get to the ceiling.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that the 3.58" to 3.79" strokes seem to be the sweet spot for small block mopars, in terms of efficiency. 4" and longer stokes make mad torque and very good power, but if you compare the hp/cube "efficiency" for a given head/cam combination, the sweet spot strokes usually generate better average torque and HP per cube of displacement.

To some extent, we will 'have what we have' to work with and with that said....I think in the 355"-370"-ish range, the LS, conventional SBC and Ford combos don't necessarily have a clear cut advantage within the 3500-7500 rpm range. It's a port cross sectional range where the LS and Cleveland/Windsor Hybrid ford combos won't necessarily be dominant over a well-prepped well-thought-out Mopar combo.

BES will bring his G3 back and depending on what they actually allow for cylinder heads in that class, he will more than likely be the guy to beat.

You should build it at 365 inch and 11-1 comp so you can run it on Friday in the N20 class. J.Rob

That's another idea, J.Rob. Them Daurity boys out our way know a thing or 2 about spray motors, I'm sure they'd lend us a hand if we need it.

But us Carolina boyz "Ain't Skeered" to go up against Bischoff, Kasse, bring 'em on, and if we do go down, we go down Swingin!

In all seriousness though, I like the idea of competing in that 355-370" range, all the NASCAR technology for the past nearly 40 years has been geared directly at that 358" range, so there's an awful lot of resource-pool to dive into around here. Larry Smith is an AMAZING porter and it'll be awesome to see what he comes up with. Hollis, having been there will also be well-aware of how high the bar will be set. We already have most of the good stuff we need to really turn up the wick, Hollis's thought is if we get the motor done fairly soon we'd have a lot of time available to test & tune, might be optimistic (since Life happens) but not having to go out and buy a bunch of stuff could be an advantage, I guess. It's just fun to ponder right now, logistically I think we have a shot to get there though.

StreetWize, what team or year did Hollis attend EMC? Just wondering if I met him and didn't know it. J.Rob

2011 I think, he had a tunnel rammed 383B motor if I recall right

you can PM him, HPengines

You must mean the MoparMuscle Engine Challenge? I've never attended that one but I would imagine there are vast differences between it and the Ammsoil/HotRod EMC. J.Rob

I am no "engine master" but I can attest from personal experience that just getting a good quench area and setting it real tight helps mid range power a ton with no down side, that being said if you considered getting the silly open chambers filled in and set up a nice tight quench I agree that what you are planning could do real well. Without that it will look like another engine slapped together with whatever is laying around.

Keith Dunnuck did a test on his 440 with closed chamber heads on his 440 and when he got the quench set real tight it made about 80 more HP than the real loose quench, some of the gain was from compression obviously but probably half was from the quench and it was all gained in the range that would help an engine masters motor build a bigger score.

Ramm, you'd have ask Hollis or David Kluttz (Crabman) but i think (?) it was the EMC the year they went for Hp/cube

Dave, let's see what all we can come up with, lots of ways to skin a cat, The Moparts entry back in '03 pulled pretty good with a lot of "That won't run..." parts

Hollis found this motor, I bought it and ( within only a few days) offered it up if he and Larry want to make a run at an EM entry, I'm happy and proud to do it, these are two of the finest and awesome car guys I've had the pleasure to meet, and call my friends.

I haven't read the rules at all so I have no idea besides what some say on here. Either way everyone will have the same goal in mind and that's leaning towards max effort/extreme measures to achieve the most out of their combination to get the best score.

Yep -we did the Mopar Muscle deal--$5k budget on parts --most HP per CI
We took a 400 with a 383 crank, Edelbrock heads, flat tappet cam and gave it a whirl--Plan was to turn it until we were doing good. We finished third in a tight race--made like 608 HP IIRC --looking back we were within reach of winners had we only turned it harder--that was my call/ my fault--it was gaining 6 HP per 100 RPM at 7400 where we cut it off--just a dumb call on my part--we had a tunnel ram hiding in a garbage bag--rules called for any production cast intake single four --we had a time limit on the dyno to do our required runs--so at the end we had just enough time to try the TR intake--hoping ( as we had not tested it) that would give us the boost we needed--so we used precious time swapping intakes--it fell off and in the video the end cylinders went so lean the header tubes on 1,2, 7, 8 went cherry red--was crazy lean on the ends--had we just opted to turn the wizzz out of it we may have done better but....we brought it home, sold it and moved on having had a great experience--Have to say the stop in Nashville on the way was the best part as we had girls with us--
Lots of fun--sold the engine so no major expense--had we destroyed it for glory then we would have not been so happy--Buying glory can get real expensive!
Great fun though!!!!!!!!!! I am pulling for you guys--I think the Real Engine Masters will be a lot tougher deal--Maybe you guys can get some REAL glory! Go for it!!!!!

Having Fun at EMC

Made exactly 1.50 HP per CI with $5000 winner made 1.58
Comp Cams was a great host --we had a ball!!