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XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose?????

Posted By: Blucuda413

XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 01/30/09 05:58 PM

I as many others have been waiting anxiously for seems like a year or more now for the XR-2 to show it's face. It was my understanding that one of the primary purposes of the XR-2 program was to provide a platform for the P7 heads that could use many existing LA engine parts.

From what I have been able to determine there's not a heck of a lot of LA parts that will be usable.
- Certainly the top end will be totally different with the P7 hardware.
- Camshaft will not be usable. Must use special 60mm cam core. Did someone have a stockpile of parts they needed to move??
- Lifters from an LA engine will not be usable, totally different lifter layout.
- Pistons will have to be custom for the P7 chambers.
- There may be some applicability for existing crank and rods??
- Timeing chain/gear drive??
- Timing chain cover will be usable!!
- Damper will be usable??
- Pan will be usable??
- Distributor will be usable??
- Hopefully the bellhousing bolt pattern will be LA??

If I'm wrong I sure wish someone would set me straight, I'm getting a very uneasy feeling about exactly what will be required to put together a strong XR-2/P7 combination!!!
Posted By: 340RICK

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 01/30/09 10:39 PM

I will give ya a bump here and by no means am I a XR expert

The nice thing about the XR block is.........

its a wet sump
takes stock pan
stock timing cover
has factory bell housing bolt pattern


as far as the lifters and cam go you would need to buy $$$$ pricey race stuff anyway to take advantage of the P7 heads anyway. A stock cam would flex and could not be ground to take advantage of the heads anyway.

the used R5 lifters are dirt cheap if you want good used stuff.

its not perfect but it will let you build a big inch P7 headed motor with out breaking the bank
Posted By: Leon441

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 01/31/09 01:19 AM

Some people have stockpiles of parts that will fit these engines. It's not a greed thing as you would not want lifter spacing and a camshaft from an LA as it would not work due to valve locations.
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 02:20 PM

Well everything up to the cam stock LA stuff. From The cam up will utilize R5/P7 stuff. And the cam will actually have to be special from what I'm told. I was just informed that the R5 cam wont work with this block cause the front of the cam is not machined for LA style timing chain and he wasn't sure if the front could be remachined or not. But he said comp cams is making the cam for this setup. I forgot to ask what gear they wiil be running on the cam, if they use the LA gear it will be very easy to make wet sump, if they use the R5 gear it will be a little more difficult. Lifters are super cheap don't be scared by them. Go with the .905 nascar lifters and you'll be out about $250.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 02:49 PM

I, for one, find it extremely odd that the people associated with this project
are always absent from these posts. That sends me a bad message.

I know the first run of XR-? blocks was to be machined January of 2008, with
the release to follow soon after.

I'm not bashing anybody or trying to stir the crap but, I'd think those involved
would address these XR posts and at least keep interested parties up to date
on their progress, or lack thereof.

Posted By: theclutcher

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 03:13 PM

Those involved are too busy to sit and type.
You need to call them personally.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 03:35 PM

I know Kent isn't a member here and wasn't referring to him
but, you're right......he's currently in a meeting.

Like I said, I'm not trying to stir anything up but, I think
people who are interested deserve some answers from the
people who advertised it's production. They must have been
a lot less busy then.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 09:21 PM

I just got off the phone with Kent Ritter.......

He told me the project is still going forward but, has taken longer
due to some manufacturing changes. There are both XR-1 and XR-2
blocks out there but, all current blocks and ones in upcoming run are
already spoken for. He projects to be caught up and in full production
by early April.

That's all I asked so, that's all I know. The good news is he says they will be available.
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/02/09 10:34 PM

Are you happy now?

I did'nt realize that anyone involved in that block project had to answer the same questions that get asked over & over everytime a post like this comes up. Yes some of us ARE busy.

When the blocks are more readily available you'll hear about it.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 12:40 AM

I'm rarely happy and smartass remarks don't seem to help.

Some of these guys seem to be interested in the XR stuff
and have questions about it. You are one of the people who
were advertising this stuff. If I had questions about something,
somebody was selling, I'd want them answered before I started
laying out the cash.

It looks like you have time to respond now. It's not like this
just got put up here today. I was just speaking my mind. You
never seem to have a problem telling people what you think.
Posted By: vc360

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 11:20 AM

I have to agree with s/st 3040, these do seem to be taking a while. I dont know how you can advertise and take deposits on something that is not readily available.
Seems like maybe the xr blocks to suit the w series or 59 deg heads should have been cast first to iron out the bugs and get a few runs on the board with the mopar public. There is probably more people waiting for those style than the one to suit the p7?
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 02:04 PM

Quote:

I'm rarely happy and smartass remarks don't seem to help.

Some of these guys seem to be interested in the XR stuff
and have questions about it. You are one of the people who
were advertising this stuff. If I had questions about something,
somebody was selling, I'd want them answered before I started
laying out the cash.

It looks like you have time to respond now. It's not like this
just got put up here today. I was just speaking my mind. You
never seem to have a problem telling people what you think.




I only make smartass remarks when some are directed at me first there Vic.. I was drug into this post by YOUR remarks seeing as how only Rick & I were the only two to ever do much "advertising" about those blocks I have to infer that you were referring to us. Like I said, when they are more readily available we will be more than happy to let people know. Yes they are taking alot longer to be produced than ANYONE wants, me, Rick, Kent, the general public etc. It's not an easy deal, people need to learn patience.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 02:25 PM

Ryan.....Get off the computer and answer you're phone .
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 02:25 PM

Now that we have that out of the way, can you just answer Max's
questions. You've already dedicated enough time here to answer
them. If I knew the answers, I'd help but, I don't. This is no more
repetitive than the 8 3/4 posts.

Sorry for butting in Max.
Posted By: theclutcher

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 03:38 PM

Its the same casting as far as I know.
Also was told they werent taking deposits and have not due to this very concern.
Dont want to have to listen to the crying in case difficulties arise in production.
Anybody that has been seriously interested , could have had one.
Like anything else, step up or step aside.
Doubtful the 59 degree would be more desireable with current cost of p7 parts imo.
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 03:55 PM

Anyone who is seriously interested in building one should contact Rick, he is the one in charge of the XR2 P7 development. I specialize in wedge motors.

I know most of the answers on the XR2 questions, but not everyone is going to be thrilled when they hear them. It did end up swaying more toward a modified R5 deal than was I think originally intended. The 3 biggest things it will allow is the use of an off shelf 340 main crankshaft (try that in your R5 or $6000 EEI block) Which opens up the stroke avenues greatly without having to do a custom billet. No stupid R5 trans adapters..... & the cost is about 1/2 of an EEI block. Those are basically it's 3 biggest benefits.... If those 3 things don't help, just go do an R5 or an EEI block.

I'll start working on them when blocks are more available. I'd rather have people ask Rick specific questions because he has actually worked on them.... In reality Rick is the ONLY one qualified to answer specific tech questions about the XR2/P7. Kent can answer questions as well, but Rick actually has more hands on experience with them than Kent so.... anything else you hear about them is pretty much hearsay or second hand info, which is what I'm giving here & I don't like giving second hand info. Only specific things I know about them I have gotten from talking with Rick about them, & some of the production problems from Kent. So that's why these 2-3+ posts a week about the XR stuff are hard to deal with because only a few people have the answers & they are too busy to be answering Q's everytime some pop up. Just gonna have to wait until some are finally running to get good grasp on what can & can't be done.
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 04:01 PM

Quote:

Its the same casting as far as I know.
Also was told they werent taking deposits and have not due to this very concern.
Dont want to have to listen to the crying in case difficulties arise in production.
Anybody that has been seriously interested , could have had one.
Like anything else, step up or step aside.
Doubtful the 59 degree would be more desireable with current cost of p7 parts imo.




Actually the one XR1 I have on order is a 59* Tall deck 340 main. & if they were more readily available I would have bought a couple more recently, just had to buy some R3's through the dealer instead. Most people still want wedge motors that I talk to... Only the real hardcore Drag/Circle guys want to try the P7's.

There's a handfull of XR1's out around the Country right now, I think almost all of them are being done as circle track engines.

From everything I have seen & been told, the castings are awesome.... it's the machine shop that is causing the issues with the blocks.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 04:17 PM

Anybody that has been seriously interested , could have had one.


Thats one big load of crap...twice I tried over the past year with CC in hand...first time I was told I would be put on the list, last time I just missed the one they just sold from there web site by a day.

Just to sum it up without dragging more BS into it....if the big dogs cant get them...how can us little guys get them.

I wont post the reply I got from one of the "Big Dogs" But no one seems happy or getting blocks.

Why are the same people pushing alot of R5 products if the XR block is just around the corner?

In my reaserch on the R5/P7 this whole XR idea has been around on the net since 2003 where posted it wont be long and this was in 2003.

At this point if the XR makes it or not, who cares, new R5 blocks can be had for a little as $1500.

Im told my R5 to small block adapter plate ships tomorrow from the same makers of the XR blocks.....I would love to have an xr block, but untill I can call and order, pay and have it shipped, why try?

My R5/P7 will be on the pump within a month....it might not be my first choice but its a hands on part here and now.

I hope it all comes together but until there is a proven tested soild product in stock ready to ship, naaa, now with all the current changes in some of it, doesnt it seem its still in the RnD process since 2003 or???
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 04:37 PM

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with Mark on the comment "Anybody that has been seriously interested , could have had one.
Like anything else, step up or step aside."

That is not a true statement. There are lots of people "seriously interested" that don't have blocks yet. So be careful before you talk about what you don't know.
Posted By: Laurent

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 06:02 PM

Hello Jesse
If Xr1/2 blocks aren't yet available for everyone.... You could probably sent me the parts you're supposed to supply me since over one year... It seemed you fixed stainless W9 flanges story but you forgot me(ARP w9 stand bolts....)...

Let me know...

Laurent.
Posted By: theclutcher

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 06:39 PM

Hmmm...

I must rate with the big dogs then.
Something I didnt realize.

My point is if one wanted them one has to keep informed as to the availability of the supply and speak when they are available.

That is a true statement.

That I do know.

There were 5 available last I knew and that was months ago.

You be careful.
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 06:41 PM

Quote:

Hello Jesse
If Xr1/2 blocks aren't yet available for everyone.... You could probably sent me the parts you're supposed to supply me since over one year... It seemed you fixed stainless W9 flanges story but you forgot me(ARP w9 stand bolts....)...

Let me know...

Laurent.




Sorry your right I did forget. You just need the stand fastening hardware correct? I should be able to get it out by the end of the week. Please PM me your shipping info, I dont think I have it anywhere.
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 06:50 PM

Quote:

Hmmm...

I must rate with the big dogs then.
Something I didnt realize.

My point is if one wanted them one has to keep informed as to the availability of the supply and speak when they are available.

That is a true statement.

That I do know.

There were 5 available last knew and that was months ago.

You be careful.




Really?!

Hmmm my money must not be as good as yours. I was paid in FULL last March at the Indy show. Due to some mfg probs they had, people didnt't get their blocks. So I've been waiting a year now. But I'm glad that they found the prob and it is now fixed. So we will get a superior product and IMO it's worth the wait.

So are you saying someone is lying to me??? Cause your so much better?
Posted By: theclutcher

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 07:07 PM

Not saying that at all.
At the time, most of the available blocks were spoken for already but there were still some to be had.
Just had to be machined yet.
Maybe i just got lucky on the timing.
Again, the point being, if I, as casually as I have inquired as to the availabily can get one, than someone of greater interest and need than I should surely have been able to.

If you new me, you would know I dont think myself better than anybody. Sorry for not saying I was being sarcastic.
Just dont care for someone telling me something that in my exprerience is not correct.
Also, agree that it is worth the wait, these parts look great.
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 07:24 PM

Awesome! Do you have pics? I know some did make it through QC and checked out good in the first run I have not seen one machined yet. I just saw the raw casting at Indy last year. Someone said they seen pics of a machined XR block on here.

Was it you?

I put a post up a couple months ago and no one had any pics.
Posted By: Domino1609

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 07:32 PM

Quote:

Anyone who is seriously interested in building one should contact Rick, he is the one in charge of the XR2 P7 development. I specialize in wedge motors.

I know most of the answers on the XR2 questions, but not everyone is going to be thrilled when they hear them. It did end up swaying more toward a modified R5 deal than was I think originally intended. The 3 biggest things it will allow is the use of an off shelf 340 main crankshaft (try that in your R5 or $6000 EEI block) Which opens up the stroke avenues greatly without having to do a custom billet. No stupid R5 trans adapters..... & the cost is about 1/2 of an EEI block. Those are basically it's 3 biggest benefits.... If those 3 things don't help, just go do an R5 or an EEI block.

I'll start working on them when blocks are more available. I'd rather have people ask Rick specific questions because he has actually worked on them.... In reality Rick is the ONLY one qualified to answer specific tech questions about the XR2/P7. Kent can answer questions as well, but Rick actually has more hands on experience with them than Kent so.... anything else you hear about them is pretty much hearsay or second hand info, which is what I'm giving here & I don't like giving second hand info. Only specific things I know about them I have gotten from talking with Rick about them, & some of the production problems from Kent. So that's why these 2-3+ posts a week about the XR stuff are hard to deal with because only a few people have the answers & they are too busy to be answering Q's everytime some pop up. Just gonna have to wait until some are finally running to get good grasp on what can & can't be done.





Covered well by Ryan in the above post!!!!!!

570-561-1746
I am in here all day, I am working my way through more than one XR-2 Combination,keep in mind that is not all we do here though, I can only one off something as time permits,and as the customer can fit their budget, as promissed I will post the good along with the bad, when it is all worked out, the blocks are very nice.

If anyone has something they need to know, feel free to call, for Chr---- sake, I jumped on to get the shipping info for the guys who are getting a plug indexer this week, and I have to see this, sh--



I have 1 extra XR-2 here,although it is spoken for, the customer is nice enough to let me use it and replace it later, I will sell it as a complete engine only because all the work is done.
First call/deposit gets it.


Rick Liuzzo
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 07:56 PM

Quote:


I have 1 extra XR-2 here,although it is spoken for, the customer is nice enough to let me use it and replace it later, I will sell it as a complete engine only because all the work is done.
First call/deposit gets it.


Rick Liuzzo




Do you have any pics? I would just like to see one. Or are pics not allowed yet?

Just curious, thanks Rick
Posted By: Domino1609

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 08:33 PM

They are allowed but I am getting ready to go out of town for a few days, so time is at a premium.

Give me a call if you can do it within a few hrs.

570-561-1746
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 08:39 PM

is there any timeline as to when more blocks will be available?
Posted By: Domino1609

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/03/09 10:47 PM

I honestly wont say a day or date, everytime I repeat what I am told, It gets me in the back. All I can say is we are very close, there have been some very very and I repeat very small issues, nothing more than change the depth of a hole for instance, I recomended the change, the next blocks came and guess what? Not done!
Little frustrating things like that, something that is nothing more than changing one line of code in the program are the things that are burning time and tons of money.

I still think in the end it will be a good platform to build on, there is no doubt that it will certainly be, when looked at as a dollar per HP basis, an excelant value. The XR-2 is not made to replace the R5, it is a variable.
As far as I am concerned the R5 is one of the purest race blocks I have ever been involved with, and the R6 would have been a step forward if the powers that be would have left the bore centers alone, they did add to the ammount of cam bearings as compared to the R5 but with the way the world is today that may just be for nothing, who knows if they will really go to production.
I will have a good look at the Toy--- stuff this week, I really am looking forward to it, I also have a brand new R4 wedge block here if anyone wants a few pictures, but that will be when I get back on Friday...I have an airplane to catch, see you guys later.............and fight nice,,,,,,LOL

Rick
Posted By: LA360

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/04/09 03:26 AM

I speak with Rick a fair bit and will be helping him out with organising any orders that are placed with him being sent to Australia.

A project like this is a huge undertaking, both in time and $$$. I don't think that many people realize what problems can occur behind the scenes and quite frankly, I don't think it's suitable for a public forum. There have been delays yes, but Kent and Rick are trying to produce a great product. Once the minor bug are sorted out you'll hear something from Rick and everyone will be happy.

I know the delays have been frustrating, but we're not the ones constantly forking out the $$$ to get these things done.

Hang tight, it will be worth it!

I have pics of the first XR2 block, I will contact Rick to see if it is OK to post them.

I am pretty sure Rick had some R5 Camshafts modified to go into an XR2 and it wasn't an overly costly exercise.
AL...
Posted By: DemonDust

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/04/09 07:15 AM

Quote:


I have pics of the first XR2 block, I will contact Rick to see if it is OK to post them.

I am pretty sure Rick had some R5 Camshafts modified to go into an XR2 and it wasn't an overly costly exercise.
AL...




Awesome! I've been waiting so long. I'd love to see some pics. I can't wait til indy when I can pick mine up..

So I can get my R5 cam modified to work with LA style timing chain? I hope Rick chimes in..
Posted By: LA360

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/05/09 12:03 AM



Timing Cover fitted



Front of block

Link to Album with other pics
http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k118/W8_LA360/Liuzzo%20Bros/

I hope that helps
AL...


Quote:

Quote:


I have pics of the first XR2 block, I will contact Rick to see if it is OK to post them.

I am pretty sure Rick had some R5 Camshafts modified to go into an XR2 and it wasn't an overly costly exercise.
AL...




Awesome! I've been waiting so long. I'd love to see some pics. I can't wait til indy when I can pick mine up..

So I can get my R5 cam modified to work with LA style timing chain? I hope Rick chimes in..


Posted By: Domino1609

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/05/09 04:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I have pics of the first XR2 block, I will contact Rick to see if it is OK to post them.

I am pretty sure Rick had some R5 Camshafts modified to go into an XR2 and it wasn't an overly costly exercise.
AL...




Awesome! I've been waiting so long. I'd love to see some pics. I can't wait til indy when I can pick mine up..

So I can get my R5 cam modified to work with LA style timing chain? I hope Rick chimes in..




I really doubt you will be able to do it but yes it certainly can be done,the rockwell number is out of sight on the tool steel cams that are out there, thus they must be ground, we did it and have a few in stock. We will be able to keep up with demand until the new core part number is available, there are a few other options but they would put you in a tool steel core, and they are not cheap but it is an option.

Rick
Posted By: SCDaytona

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/05/09 06:28 PM

On Rick's site, there are pictures of an XR-2 build up they are working on. It has not been updated lately as Rick has stated they are working on many things all the time. Once they get this all worked out, you can count on them letting everyone know. There is a large investment of time and money and we all win with this one. Once some drag P7 engines get built and some testing gets done, we will be seeing some real powerhouse engines competitive with the bowtie crowd. Having worked with Rick several times, I can tell you for those that don't know him, he is a standup honest guy. A former comp racer and innovator.
Posted By: LA360

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/05/09 09:44 PM

Quote:

On Rick's site, there are pictures of an XR-2 build up they are working on. It has not been updated lately as Rick has stated they are working on many things all the time. Once they get this all worked out, you can count on them letting everyone know. There is a large investment of time and money and we all win with this one. Once some drag P7 engines get built and some testing gets done, we will be seeing some real powerhouse engines competitive with the bowtie crowd. Having worked with Rick several times, I can tell you for those that don't know him, he is a standup honest guy. A former comp racer and innovator.




What he said

AL...
Posted By: theclutcher

Re: XR-2 Meeting Original Goals/Purpose????? - 02/06/09 01:00 PM

Him and Kent.
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