Engine plate with stock water pump & alternator tech help

I have a 1968 Dodge Dart that has a stock 6 cylinder k-frame.
I am installing a 440 & 727.
I am using TTI headers.
The 1968 Dodge Dart has a manual steering box.



Has anyone been able to use a stock water pump housing(passengers side drop outlet).

Has anyone been able to use a stock factory alternator?



If so, please post what you had to do.
Where and how did you mount the alternator?
Did you have to use shims? If so what thickness? Where did you buy them?
Where did you buy the engine plate?

I WILL NOT use a GM alternator!

It is frustrating because everyone keeps telling me how "cheap" an engine plate will be. An engine plate is cheap until you start looking at the prices of the special alternators, special alternator brackets, and electric water pumps.

Thanks!

Is this a street car or drag car?
If drag only, you can use a stock water pump setup and just use the cheap Moroso water pump drive kit to turn the factory water pump.

If street driven, take your water pump housing and have the back of it (the block mounting surface) milled down the thickness of your motorplate. Or you can use a crank pulley spacer (the thickness of the plate) to push the pulley out so it lines up w/ the water pump pulley.
There are a lot of different factory pulleys out there with different offsets.

I'm no help on the factory alternator...I went w/ a low mount GM alternator setup.

Just mill the thickness of the motor plate off the block side of the waterpump housing ... done.

.....

I just had the motor rebuilt. Its complete. Hasn't even been fired.

I am not sure where I would even go to have this done.

Just pull the water pump housing off the motor and take it to a machine shop. They can mill the back side of it to compensate for the thickness of the plate.

Make sure you know what plate you're gonna use beforehand. The AR engineering plates are .375" thick, The normal Comp Eng. plates are only .250" thick.

Use the AR-Engineering plate, it's nice. I use it along with a stock type water pump housing, I haven't had it milled because my pulleys line up good. But I only have 2.75 inches between the water pump snout and my radiator, so I use a cheap flex fan along with a shroud.
I use a Toyota Denso alternator and will never go back to a mopar setup, it's small, mounted low, and charges at 14 volts at all times, best setup I've ever owned. I'm sure alot of guys have the mopar setups ironed out but I always had problems with them.

http://arengineering.com

It doesn't have to be a GM alternator, although I don't see why that's an issue. It just needs to be an internally regulated one wire alternator, which as stated, can come from many sources. They are small, light, easy to mount and flat work better

You can use a stock water pump if you use a pulley spacer. Or machine down the water pump housing to use a stock pulley arrangement. Most people use an electric water pump of some sort when running a motor plate.

There is no simple way to use a stock Mopar alternator with a motor plate. The Mopar alternator is big, heavy and obsolete so most people building race cars get rid of them and use a modern alternator.

DODGE OR DIE BABY! LOL

DODGE OR DIE BABY! LOL [/quote]

Ya, I thought the same thing at the beginning until I realized that the mopar alternator doesn't charge on the idle, and on a race car there's a lot of idleing. Do yourself a favor and buy a East Coast 1 wire alternator.

As long as it does not resemble a GM alternator I would entertain it.

I used a Denso alternator. Drilled a hole for the top bolt of the alt on the bottom of the motor plate and fabbed up my own bracket for the bottom hole. I just made spacers to line it up with... Simple, easy and cheap!!

That's what I do, mill the rear of the housing .400" when using a 3/8" motor plate (extra .025" for the second gasket).

What exactly does a GM alternator LOOK like? They are made by Delco-Remy, who also sells alternators to GM, Ford, Chrysler and about every other manufacturer, same as Denso and others. You do realize that likely the steering gearbox and pump on your later model Chrysler product is made by Saginaw.........a GM owned company. Oh noooooooooo............LOL!!!!

I can't add much to the discussion other than saying a GM alternator(CS130) was one of the best things I have ever done to my car.

Correct..."late model Chrysler product". Not on my Mopar muscle car!!!

I don't want anything even GM related even near my car lol.

I bought a set of used CPPA engine mounts today from a member that are believed to be made for my headers.

Hopefully this will solve the problem!

I will post pictures this weekend.

Again thanks guys for the help!

That "GM product" alternator would be the best thing you could do to your mopar for a charging system.

I put a East Coast Auto mini on mine, works good but looks like it came off a Kubota tractor. lol

I've always used a stock Moapr alternator on the motors with elephant ears and front motor plates until I got my current Cuda, I use a Powermaster 100 amp single wire GM style on it do to it not having a charging system on it. My Duster with the 400 pump gas stroker motor had a OEM 45 amp Mopar alternator on it until it died, I bought a Tuff Stuff brand 100 amp Mopar bolt on replacement from Summit, that work very well More amps when needed is way better than not quite enough

I would entertain making a bracket for a newer Mopar style alternator.

I'll deal with the charging problems before I put any GM related parts on my Mopar. I'm sure I should buy a cowl hood to right?.....

lol

A cowl hood would look better than any of the mopar scoops on yor Dart.

This is what I did for my 65 Plymouth.

[img]<a href="http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/digger731/media/IMAG0143_zpsiiuqygyf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y349/digger731/IMAG0143_zpsiiuqygyf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMAG0143_zpsiiuqygyf.jpg"/></a>[/img]

I'm new to this photo adding stuff so please bear with me.

I guess I don't have the magic to post pictures.
Sorry.
I can email them if you PM me with your email.

Digger73 (Mike)

Yea cuz dealing with charging problems all the time is so relaxing and fun lol. And yes a cowl hood would look sweet on your Dart.


Here's my Toyota alternator.....

Kinda hard to see when it's mounted low.

This is the AR-Engineering kit to install it on a motor plate.

What ProSport said..."Use the AR-Engineering plate, it's nice. I use it along with a stock type water pump housing, I haven't had it milled because my pulleys line up good. But I only have 2.75 inches between the water pump snout and my radiator, so I use a cheap flex fan along with a shroud.
I use a Toyota Denso alternator and will never go back to a mopar setup, it's small, mounted low, and charges at 14 volts at all times, best setup I've ever owned. I'm sure alot of guys have the mopar setups ironed out but I always had problems with them."


Ditto...have 71 Dart, 440-727, TTI. Go with AR-Engineering plate, it has proper off-set with RB in A-Body which will be important in ensuring TTI fit and function. Went with Denso Alternator and did some of my own fab on top mounting it (stock alternator location) with the motor plate.

Can't argue w/ this logic.

Are building a street car or race car as I see you asking about glass doors in another thread...If your trying to go fast ya may be in trouble with all MOPAR parts,LOl.

Here's my 7 second street legal car with a gm hood & trans along with a ford rear...Mine's all steel except for hood & bumpers !!

My Dart with a gm hood and aftermarket alt...Does have a 904 trans & S60 rear tho !!

Gary I think he would rather run the 14.28 @ 93 if it meant he could stay with all mopar parts

Chevy hoods, Ford 9"s, and don't forget the power glides! lol

Hey if it works great. I am just not a fan of GM designs, and have always had bad blood with the 85% of GM population that races in my area.

I appreciate the help and advice though guys!

That is sweet!

Try and remember, by owning and racing a "Mopar" your going against the grain to start with Being strong enough to do what you want only makes you stronger Many people on here have really good intentions, many cars guys, no matter what brand they like, think thier way is the only, thier wrong Keep on keeping on

Any part that is BETTER or makes my car BETTER, I use it, no matter who made it or where it came from.

Nobody but YOU will likely care that your Mopar is 100% Mopar.....and that's fine if you want it to be that way, but it seems that you or anyone else would simply want your cars to perform better. If that's a better charging system, front suspension, rear suspension, trans, rear, whatever...........no need to handicap yourself even more.

If your Dart still has the stock 68 wiring, electrical system and alternator.........lets face it, good it's NOT. Not with all the high amp draw "cool guy" parts some run these days. When you are sitting at a light and rev the motor and your headlights get brighter, you know the electrical system leaves something to be desired.

Best upgrade I ever did with my ride was to rewire the whole car and upgrade the alternator to a "Chevy" one wire one with the low mounting alternator kit... No more flickering lights at idle and weird issues with the ignition and other electrical headaches... Only regret is I should have bought a 140Amp instead of the 100Amp I bought... and NO ONE has ever mentioned to me when looking under the hood of my ride that -You have a GM alternator...



/Tom

Done

Oh the humanity......

good luck keepin that belt on there at 6500 rpm.looks good if it works

Lol

Thanks! Everything came out level and straight. I dont think it will be an issue. I ran low 10's in my other Dart with a v belt.

I did it.....Full size cheppy alternator in stockl location with a stock water pump...

my original Mirada set up was more ugly than that and my belt stayed on once we went to deep groove pulleys. Was like Dragula's, but I ran an electric water pump.... belt went from crank up to alt. Not the best set up as we eventually went to Mike Doty's low mount deal which was great!

Put the FACTORY Denso alt on it.. that way you
can increase the output from that 65A to a 85A
or higher and still be FACTORY.. I got my Denso
from the 90s V-6 Chrysler cars... its a external
regulator so I use the stock old time Chrysler
regulator.. the alt is smaller, lighter and the
one I use on both the race car and the Rampage is
a 85A... it puts out 14.9v at 900rpm idle rpm.. I
have changed up the idle rpm to 1100 being its a
roller engine on the street... I mounted both down
low so I could use a short belt... if they are up
high and use the long belt the centrifugal force
will sling it off if not perfectly lined up.. I build
my own pulleys but they are out there if you want to
buy different sizes... I actually slow the speed down
on the race car but kept it about the stock size on
the Rampage
EDIT
I sure hope you have by passed the stock amp gauge
on it.. they had issue of the wires getting loose on
the terminals and built up lots of heat and it didnt
even read correctly.. get a volt gauge on it

Headed to the bone yard this weekend. I will keep my eye open for one! Thanks

We just like to make a crank pully spacer and spacers for what ever altinator we are going to use.Some time you need to leave the water pump housing stock or even space it to clear aftermarket timing covers and gear/belt drives.

Hey ProSport, i like the looks of that alternator. Can you by chance provide me with a year and model that it would have come on, just to make it easier to find at my local parts store.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry I'm just now seeing this R3Dart but I did get your email and sent the info to you.
My #14611 Alternator is off a 1987 2.0L Toyota Camry, 70 amps.

Perfect. Thanks for the help. Merry Christmas!!

WOW are you missing a lot of fun. I love beating chevies with my Mopar powered cars with Chevy parts on them. LOL

LMAO

Its a good thing Dick Landy and Ronnie Sox had Chevy alternators on their cars, otherwise they would have lost.....oh wait, they didn't!

unreal....