Need some Indy cylinder head rocker arm help

I bought the 360-2 heads for my 416 about 10 years ago. I might have 1500 miles on the motor now. The car has pretty much sat since 2007. I get it out a few times a year. Anyway I fired it up yesterday and the valve train was unusually noisy. Solid lift cam but something was off so I shut it down and pulled the valve covers. Oil everywhere which was good but I grabbed an intake rocker and it was real loose on lash. I just set the valves maybe 200 miles ago. Looked at push rods and could see they had a bunch of heat in them so I pulled the rocker shafts. Sure enough I had 3 rockers that mushroomed the push rod cup and beat up the adjust ball. Looks like lack of oil creating heat.

Shafts are fine, cleaned them up on the lathe with emery cloth but prior to that a couple rockers were starting to get tight.

I don't think I have an oiling issue here as far as the oil pump, pressure etc. I'm wondering if I'm letting the car sit too long between firing it up and I'm dry starting the motor. Or do I have a rocker arm issue?

A friend of mine who's and engine builder, mostly GM stuff looked at the rockers and asked me why there's no bearing (aluminum rocker to metal shaft) and also why the oiling holes in the rockers don't have a channel from the center of the rocker to the oiling hole?

I also have one intake rocker that wasn't machined all the way on the oiling channel.

Bad rocker



All the rest where done right



exhaust rocker arms, no groove for oil.



Push rods



Where do I go from here? I've been out of the Mopar scene now for 8 years doing other projects.

I know I need new push rods and rocker adjusters.

Where can I get the rocker adjusters? I believe these rocker arms are Indy's. Do I need to modify them for better oiling or move on to a better rocker?

I need to get the car running by Friday. I'm committed to an event and the car needs to be there.

Any help here would be appreciated.

Thanks Brett

Firing up the engine with it dry like that wasn't a good idea. If it had been sitting a long time then there wasn't much lubrication left in the rocker assembly and things probably galled up. It is a hassle to pull the distributor and pre-oil the engine, but it is less work that replacing a bunch of parts.

Looks to me like you need a new set of pushrods at the very minimum. You might also need to replace some rocker arms or buy a new set. I can't really tell you what is going on with those rocker arms without looking them over in person. There should be a way for the oil to get everywhere it needs to go so that is what you need to look at. The shafts might have grooves on them for example. You should be able to put the whole assembly together and then spin the oil pump with a speed wrench and see oil dripping out of each rocker arm.

I have a priming tool and yes I should have either primed it after letting it sit for long periods of time or start it on a regular basis.

I have a call in to Ryan at Shady Dell. He did the heads for me 10 years ago. I can't comment on the quality of these rockers other than the one rocker that wasn't fully machined. They don't appear to be that great of quality to me.

I did some searching and T&D makes a rocker for the 360 Indy heads but can't find any pictures. I'd like to see how they're machined for oiling and if they're a better set up for the street. I don't race the car anymore just some street duty now. My long term plan is to put this motor in another A body down the road and go back to the track and then build a nice street friendly 340 for the Cuda. I just need to make the best of what I have for the time being without hurting the valve train if I want to go for a cruise.

Ryan is a good guy to talk to, he'll know what rocker arms to run on that engine. T&D is generally one of the very best rocker arms. I don't have any experience with their SB rocker arms but their BB stuff is premium grade.

You can also check out what Hughes Engines offers for those heads. The guys at Hughes have spent a bunch of time working out the various bugs in the Mopar rocker arm design. I'd trust their stuff over anyone else in the mid-price range.

If this is what you want, you really need to give me a call or PM me.

I have a complete set Indy rockers and pushrods off a 360-1 motor I bought. PM me if you're interested, I'm going with a solid roller and will use T&Ds.

I bought 4 rockers directly from Indy last year. I had no issues with them, despite all the bad stories you read on forums. I have 360-2 heads also. IMO Id go with justinp61"s offer...
I also would think it was due to dry start up.
Goodluck.

I would go with a set of t&d if you can. If not see what Hughes has to offer as Andy suggested. I have been using the t&d for the last 8 years spraybar oiling with no issues of yet. Haven't heard anything from you since mopartech died. Good to see you still have you barracuda.

get those junk indy rockers off of there and get hardland sharps,you will need new push rods,smith bros push rods would make you some up quick

I think you've got some more serious issues. Those pushrods didn't get that color with just a few seconds of cold starts. They got hot, real hot from no oil. If you know what valves the worst ones came from, look at the rockers and ball adjusters for the same valves. Was all the damage from the same side of the motor? The pushrods also appear to have a lot more scuffing than I am used to seeing.

What length are the push rods?

I had damage on 3 rockers where the ball adjuster and pushrod cup were going away. The rest were ok but it would have just been a matter of time. 2 on the drivers side and 1 on the passenger side. 2 intake rockers and 1 exhaust.

I'm ordering new ball adjusters today from summit and will have to hustle for push rods tomorrow. I need to get through the show this weekend and regroup. I have plenty of oil up to the heads but as to why the it's not oiling the rockers properly is a mystery.

I have the shafts cleaned up and the rockers are turning nicely on them now. Once I get everything put back together I'm going to prime the motor and watch all the oiling holes. I'm also going to run some thin wire in the oiling passages on the rockers to make sure they're clear. Not sure what else to do at this point?

Good to see you around and it has been a while since I've been on the boards. I talked with Scotty a while back and he seems to be doing good. I built a Grand National that I plan to go to the track with. Should make 600 hp at the tire and be good for some easy 10's. I've been neglecting the Cuda for the last 10 years and it's coming back to bite me.

Watch the push rod cup at the rocker... if you move
the adjuster up too high the oil that sprays out of
the rocker cant get into the cup(the cup wall will
be blocking it).. when you set it up.. take your time
to check out the oiling.. it will make a mess.. even
with a cut open valve cover.. here is a set of TD rockers..
I think these are off of my W-2... but you can see that they
need a ball and ball push rod.. you can see in the cup of the
rocker the oil supply hole for the push rod.. has another
hole inboard of the roller tip to supply oil the the valve

That's a good point. I've built 2 engines since this one and spent a lot of time on valve train geometry. Measured for push rods etc. For the life of me I don't remember how we came up with the push rod lengths 10 years ago? I took note on the good rocker and push rods after the valves were set to proper lash before I pulled the rocker arms off. I wanted to see where the adjuster was set when locked down.

Looks like I should be fine with how it was set up. Oil should be getting to the cup at seat and max lift.

Across the counter push rods from Summit range from 7.342 - 7.550 but it's all about valve train geometry. I hate to see you throw your beautiful car back together so quickly.
First, you have aftermarket rockers. They are different than stock so it is necessary to find the correct length pushrod for your combination. Most rocker arm manufacturers want about or no more than 2 threads showing on the bottom of the adjuster. If there are to many threads, the adjuster will be subject to too much pressure. If there are to little threads, the cup will be to high to receive oil from the oiling hole in the rocker arm. Just a guess but I think your original pushrods were too long.

I hear you about putting it back together so fast but I have to make this show. I can't be sure what caused all the heat. Maybe some of it was starting the motor after letting it sit too long and some heat due to rocker arm oiling? I will put the new parts in it for now and go from there. I'll pull valve covers when I get back from show and just keep an eye on things until I make a decision on what to do.

In the upper pic the adjuster is up into the
rocker too far... the second one looks ok..set
them basically at 1 1/2 threads showing below
and set up the length with your lash in it.. then
just order the length you need.. in other words.. set the
PR checker then subtract the lash off the checker.. that
way you will be real good on the adjuster

Will do! Thank you

7.813" oal, 0.160" cup depth the best I can tell with my caliper. I don't have a ball adapter for it. Diameter is 0.315".

I agree with a previous poster. The blueing on your pushrods isn't from starting it after sitting a long time, it's from lack of proper oiling and the resultant heat. Probably took running it a while to get like that. Nothing is hot in a cold motor, and oil will get upstairs extremely quick, definately isn't the issue you are seeing.
If I were buying new rocker gear, without question I would( and have)use Jesel. They make a setup for W2/W5 Indy stuff. I ran a set trouble free for years. The best out there.

I'm coming up with 7.8000 exhaust and 7.9000 intake for pushrod length. The intakes need to be longer. Are all yours the same length?

Assuming I had the adjuster ball set right on the rocker which I think I was good there. Also assume that the adjuster ball and push rod were good hardened metal (which I don't really know)What is causing the oil restriction? I have plenty of oil to the top of the motor. Is it just poor rocker design?

I honestly don't know. But oil isn't getting where it's needed, as is evidenced by the heat on the pushrods. Hopefully someone comes along that can look at your pictures and see exactly where the issue is.

Sorry, 7.8025".

Good to hear about Scotty. Does he still run the duster? My pushrod lengths are different as well. I think its the way the base circles were ground on the cam. My 360-1 heads have different length int. Vs ex valves also. Check the oil galley in your heads to be sure there is not a plug in it. There located in the saddle that the rocker shafts set in. Should be one per head. Might want to turn the oil pump to be sure oil in getting up there.

I don't know how much racing he's doing these day's but he still has the Duster. I think he's running 10.20's now.

Plenty of oil to the heads. I talked with a guy running the same heads I have and he had the same problem with the Indy rocker arms. He switched to T&D and it solved his problem.

I'd like to know what the differences are between the Indy and T&D set ups.

Yep. Sounds like an issue with the Indy arms. I use t&d and not sure about differences except better quality in the t&d. Been running them on my 360-1 for about 8yrs with shaft oil plugged off and spraybar oiled only. Some street use with lots of idleing no issues yet. I bought mine from compu-flo for about 750-$800. They list for $1100 last I checked.

Do the T&D's come with shafts complete?

yes, complete with mounting hardware as well.

The pictures seem to show the pushrod cup too high and the oil squirt hole is not getting the oil in the cup.Use a shorter pushrod and screw the adjuster to show more thread body at the pushrod side.Also check your oil volume and shaft orientation.

Not sure on your Indy's but the t&d recommend one turn in minimum from fully turned out to get the oil hole properly opened up with a max of 2 turns in.

Is it me or are some of the p-rods bent..............

No, it's not just you Thumper.

TD is all different on the oil hole.. the oil comes in from the
the adjuster.. his comes in from a fixed hole in the shaft area
of the rocker... thats one thing thats nice about TD.. all
the oil goes on to the PR(thats allowed for the PR)

OK. Didn't know that.

You can see his oil port on his rocker... here is a
set of TD.. they all tend to do the same thing.. just
a matter of single shaft or multi

Mike are those shaft or pushrod oil?

I have about 2 threads showing on adjuster and it looked like I had a good orientation for oiling but you could be right. Something heated them up.

Shaft's were installed correctly and real good oiling to the heads.

I tried to get new push rods but that isn't going to happen by Saturday. I have 3 that are fatigued in the cups. We are going to machine the cup and install new adjusters to get me on and off the trailer for the show. Then I'm going T&D, I like that set up much better. I'll have to get new push rods for those anyway so no sense wasting the money for no more than I need to run the car Saturday.

The one I have shown here is a shaft oiling system.. just like
a stock system... but this uses a ball and ball PR

That makes so much more sense to me that how my current rockers oil.

I'll be ordering a set this week. Thanks for the pic.