Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 05:50 AM
Standard bore Hemi block, one main web crack in the #2 saddle across the oil hole, looks to go up to the cam journal. What would you do with it?
Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do?
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 06:42 AM
Wellll...
If it was for a numbers matching one of hardly any, E-body convertible or wing car 4 spd type trailer queen, I might consider building it to stone stock specs with whatever used parts I had with new rings and bearings and go. It would likely run a long time just on and off the trailer.
I have no clue if there is a reliable procedure to mitigate the crack damage. I think any procedure would be
at best.
If it is just a garden variety VIN or the car is long gone I'd say it's good for a static display.
If you sell with full disclosure etc, I think you would have to be VERY careful who you sold to as the disclosure might not follow it to the next owner.
Kevin
If it was for a numbers matching one of hardly any, E-body convertible or wing car 4 spd type trailer queen, I might consider building it to stone stock specs with whatever used parts I had with new rings and bearings and go. It would likely run a long time just on and off the trailer.
I have no clue if there is a reliable procedure to mitigate the crack damage. I think any procedure would be
at best.If it is just a garden variety VIN or the car is long gone I'd say it's good for a static display.
If you sell with full disclosure etc, I think you would have to be VERY careful who you sold to as the disclosure might not follow it to the next owner.
Kevin
Posted By: ro23car
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 06:58 AM
the way i understand it as it was told to me years ago. the block is spreading apart had one like that threw it away.
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 07:06 AM
I have one cracked in the same journal - not quite as bad as yours - waiting for an evaluation right now.
I wouldn't worry about disclosure issues as you can see it easily in the photo-just write it down in the bill of sale and have it notarized.
I wouldn't worry about disclosure issues as you can see it easily in the photo-just write it down in the bill of sale and have it notarized.
Posted By: SNK-EYZ
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 08:32 AM
It definitely makes a difference what the intended final use is.
For a race engine, it's a door stop.
For a restoration or stock type of rebuild, a good welder could fix it and then it could be machined and used.
Anything can be sold (with full disclosure) but asking/sales price reflects saleability.
For a race engine, it's a door stop.
For a restoration or stock type of rebuild, a good welder could fix it and then it could be machined and used.
Anything can be sold (with full disclosure) but asking/sales price reflects saleability.
Posted By: 1320Dart
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 11:40 AM
A restoration only. After being welded up and re-machined. 
Posted By: moper
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 01:24 PM
Just a block and you don't have the car with it?
If you have the car I'd say fix it, machine it, and build it with the goal to keep it with the car disclosing to any potential buyer that the engine was cracked and professionally repaired. It should not be raced IMO but I've seen some truly stitched-back-together 427 Ford side oiler blocks that had a mile of rod in them run fine in mild street applications (Cobra kit cars). Welding is a valid repair but where there's one crack, there's bound to be more you may not be able to see.
If you don't have the car to go with it you have two choices as I see it:
1. Put money into it to have it welded and then remachine it all, then convince the buyer it's fine.
2. sell it "as is" and don;t waste time or sleep over it.
Personally and as a business - I'd go #2. There are lots of instances where raeally bad blocks were fixed. But the liability belongs to the one that fixes it.
If you have the car I'd say fix it, machine it, and build it with the goal to keep it with the car disclosing to any potential buyer that the engine was cracked and professionally repaired. It should not be raced IMO but I've seen some truly stitched-back-together 427 Ford side oiler blocks that had a mile of rod in them run fine in mild street applications (Cobra kit cars). Welding is a valid repair but where there's one crack, there's bound to be more you may not be able to see.
If you don't have the car to go with it you have two choices as I see it:
1. Put money into it to have it welded and then remachine it all, then convince the buyer it's fine.
2. sell it "as is" and don;t waste time or sleep over it.
Personally and as a business - I'd go #2. There are lots of instances where raeally bad blocks were fixed. But the liability belongs to the one that fixes it.
Posted By: yella71
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 02:10 PM
what did you want to do with this block to begin with?
Posted By: rickseeman
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 04:08 PM
If it goes in an e body convertible or a 4 speed Superbird there are people that can fix it. Otherwise...
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 06:33 PM
How long is the crack? If it is 1/2 inch or less I would have it ground out and cast iron welded and aligned honed 
If it is longer or goes up to the cam journal, sell it with full disclosure 
If it is longer or goes up to the cam journal, sell it with full disclosure
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/02/15 06:34 PM
It's a great block for a trailer queen or a cruisin' to the drive-in car.
After all, you can't just go out and buy a new one.......
R.
After all, you can't just go out and buy a new one.......
R.
Posted By: Dads426
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 02:46 AM
In the late 60's/early 70's the fuel guys would run iron blocks until the crack got so bad that they had to chisle the main bearings out because the material would flow into the crack as it got bigger. I think the record for the Bob Banning team was 70 runs from an iron block on Nitro.
The moral is they ran cracked blocks many times. For a stock resto, I would look and see if it could be welded, or run as-is.
The moral is they ran cracked blocks many times. For a stock resto, I would look and see if it could be welded, or run as-is.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 04:23 AM
Quote:None of the above. Cut your losses ( and everyone else's ) and dump it. Selling it to someone else for "restoration purposes" only is BS. It's gonna get beat on and it will break - probably sooner than later.
Standard bore Hemi block, one main web crack in the #2 saddle across the oil hole, looks to go up to the cam journal. What would you do with it?
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 04:34 AM
Sell it to me for 100 bucks, I'll fix it and never look back. Can't believe some of these answers. What do you think they did with these blocks for thirty years before remaking them.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 05:29 AM
Quote:He says it's cracked to the cam tunnel. In higher HP race motor you would look back.........after you ran over the crank........LOL!!!
Sell it to me for 100 bucks, I'll fix it and never look back. Can't believe some of these answers. What do you think they did with these blocks for thirty years before remaking them.
Monte
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 05:49 AM
Quote:Quote:He says it's cracked to the cam tunnel. In higher HP race motor you would look back.........after you ran over the crank........LOL!!!
Sell it to me for 100 bucks, I'll fix it and never look back. Can't believe some of these answers. What do you think they did with these blocks for thirty years before remaking them.
Monte
BS.
Posted By: dakotawilly
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 06:13 AM
had one in the 80s did the exact same thing,all the way to the cam tunnel.bad situation to be in.obviously a flaw in the casting.there are shops that would weld it.get some cracked heads and build a nice garage display,or build a coffee table.otherwise you would most likely be afraid to start it and possible destroy the other 15 grand worth of parts....
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 07:05 AM
For your own use in a cruiser or restoration, lock-n-stitch pin it. Have it line bored/honed, machine and sleeve the oil hole to the cam journal, hone cam journal(s), and green Loctite that cam bearing for good measure when installing them. Build stock or fairly mild and enjoy. Race engine, find another one to start with! Just my
Beep
Yeah, It's got a hemi. Its cracked, but it has a Hemi!
BeepYeah, It's got a hemi. Its cracked, but it has a Hemi!
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 01:43 PM
Nobody has mentioned getting an opinion from a good diesel welding service. I would give that a try. Any welder that can keep diesel parts alive ought to be able to tell you if he can fix it and how strong it will be when done.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 07:58 PM
This is an interesting thread. I'm not going to comment on what I would do, because there would fifty guys pop up and tell me why I'm full of it.
So, I'll just say this. I've been racing Hemis since 1969, and there was a long period (maybe twenty years) where nothing, blocks,etc. was available. If a lot of the guys who post here could see what we raced in those days....how we salvaged this stuff, the condition some of it was in, they'd be absolutely appalled. And, a lot of it went real fast, and was reliable.
And, I'll tip you off on something.....a good bit of it is still racing. More than you think.
So, I'll just say this. I've been racing Hemis since 1969, and there was a long period (maybe twenty years) where nothing, blocks,etc. was available. If a lot of the guys who post here could see what we raced in those days....how we salvaged this stuff, the condition some of it was in, they'd be absolutely appalled. And, a lot of it went real fast, and was reliable.
And, I'll tip you off on something.....a good bit of it is still racing. More than you think.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 08:16 PM
Himes casting reapir in Indy is the best guy in the country--Fair/Honest and one of the most skilled fixers ever--I had a numbers 6 pack block that had tossed a rod on #1 destroyed the jug and blew a chunk that included the mounting ears off the side-- split the deck--I mean it was FUBARED! When he was done there was a wild look on the inside--but on the outside no one would ever know--he saved the unsavable--that was $1200 back in the mid 90's and I was glad to pay it
Worth tripple that today I would think--Best guy you will ever deal with
Worth tripple that today I would think--Best guy you will ever deal with
Posted By: DusterDave
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 08:44 PM
Quote:
For your own use in a cruiser or restoration, lock-n-stitch pin it. Have it line bored/honed, machine and sleeve the oil hole to the cam journal, hone cam journal(s), and green Loctite that cam bearing for good measure when installing them. Build stock or fairly mild and enjoy. Race engine, find another one to start with! Just my
Yeah, It's got a hemi. Its cracked, but it has a Hemi!
I second the Lock 'N Stitch method, and use in a stock/restoration build.
Posted By: sixpacksteve
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/03/15 11:20 PM
Fix it! Drive it! DON'T Race it! Thats it!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/04/15 12:00 AM
Himes is cheaper in long run to fix it RIGHT and go on with life those stitch pins and all are ok if you want to get out of Mexico City and get back to the states but are not a REAL fix--there are threads everywhere NO blocks--fix it right and be happy
Hey--I had a state owned auction dodge PU with a 360 cast crank broke in two --it RAN --did not like it but would still take you to the store for beer run--lots of stuff will "work" but just do it right
You may wind up with 2K -$2500 in it so what? that is a good day in Hemi world
Hey--I had a state owned auction dodge PU with a 360 cast crank broke in two --it RAN --did not like it but would still take you to the store for beer run--lots of stuff will "work" but just do it right
You may wind up with 2K -$2500 in it so what? that is a good day in Hemi world
Posted By: W.I.N. Racing
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/04/15 02:04 AM
Quote:
This is an interesting thread. I'm not going to comment on what I would do, because there would fifty guys pop up and tell me why I'm full of it.
So, I'll just say this. I've been racing Hemis since 1969, and there was a long period (maybe twenty years) where nothing, blocks,etc. was available. If a lot of the guys who post here could see what we raced in those days....how we salvaged this stuff, the condition some of it was in, they'd be absolutely appalled. And, a lot of it went real fast, and was reliable.
And, I'll tip you off on something.....a good bit of it is still racing. More than you think.
How True... my second block had more cracks than the Mona Lisa... but that's all that was available back then and were glad to have it! I have a block under my bench that is a ,73 over the counter block that is cracked thru the # 2 main much like the OP stated. no current plans but after the de rusting process I would run it ( all ready welded)
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/04/15 02:06 AM
Resto or mild streeter, fine..............Race car, no
As far as what guys did back in the 60s and ran fast. FAST is a relative term. What so called "race" motors made for power and ran back then, is slow by todays standards.
How much faster is an A/Stock car now as compared to the 70s...........same parts, as far as block heads and most rules. They make WAY more power now.
You want to run a busted up factory block in your car, fine.........but if you were next to me, I would just hope it had a diaper on it. And some can call is BS all they want. Don't change the facts, that a repaired block is considerably weakened.
We just had to trash a $6000 alum block that was cracked the same way, that had several hundred runs on it. Could it have been welded, yes.....us use it, HELL no. Stuff fatigues, cracks and doesn't last forever.
Monte
As far as what guys did back in the 60s and ran fast. FAST is a relative term. What so called "race" motors made for power and ran back then, is slow by todays standards.
How much faster is an A/Stock car now as compared to the 70s...........same parts, as far as block heads and most rules. They make WAY more power now.
You want to run a busted up factory block in your car, fine.........but if you were next to me, I would just hope it had a diaper on it. And some can call is BS all they want. Don't change the facts, that a repaired block is considerably weakened.
We just had to trash a $6000 alum block that was cracked the same way, that had several hundred runs on it. Could it have been welded, yes.....us use it, HELL no. Stuff fatigues, cracks and doesn't last forever.
Monte
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/04/15 02:18 AM
Now I think I know why all the Mopar races are referred to as " the Oildown Nationals " 
Posted By: formula S
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 12:56 AM
Maybe these guys can help you http://www.locknstitch.com/
Posted By: SNK-EYZ
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 05:54 AM
Quote:
Now I think I know why all the Mopar races are referred to as " the Oildown Nationals "
At Gateway the "Fast Ford Weekend" is called the "Oil Down Nationals" by everyone that I know.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 06:12 PM
First thing is to have the block magged to see how far and bad the crack is.We have seen and have repaired blocks similar.Some can be welded and tubed to seal the oil passage.It's tricky since the tube needs to be open to the cam and lifter galley.We just had a block come in that has a repair but shows a crack on the oppsite side of the hole.
The hard part about any cast iron repair is where the weld and iron intergrate it becomes hard and is difficult to machine.Repairing is easy,machining becomes difficult but with the new process,s available a good skilled welder can repair most anything.
If this block is a factory numbered block and is destine for a restoration project that must have(the correct,original part) then repair it.
The hard part about any cast iron repair is where the weld and iron intergrate it becomes hard and is difficult to machine.Repairing is easy,machining becomes difficult but with the new process,s available a good skilled welder can repair most anything.
If this block is a factory numbered block and is destine for a restoration project that must have(the correct,original part) then repair it.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 06:17 PM
The car it came from is said to be long gone. Just looking to possible repair ideas and potential costs associated with them to see if it makes sense to do anything with it.
For those of you who think the Lockstitch method would work (a method I think is a great option for fixing freeze cracks etc. on the outer surfaces of blocks, etc.), how the heck would you access the crack to drill the holes etc. to accomplish a repair in the main web areas with that method?..
For those of you who think the Lockstitch method would work (a method I think is a great option for fixing freeze cracks etc. on the outer surfaces of blocks, etc.), how the heck would you access the crack to drill the holes etc. to accomplish a repair in the main web areas with that method?..
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 06:44 PM
Quote:
The car it came from is said to be long gone. Just looking to possible repair ideas and potential costs associated with them to see if it makes sense to do anything with it.
For those of you who think the Lockstitch method would work (a method I think is a great option for fixing freeze cracks etc. on the outer surfaces of blocks, etc.), how the heck would you access the crack to drill the holes etc. to accomplish a repair in the main web areas with that method?..
Lock stich and other drill,screw or plug type of welding is great for non-structural,non -load areas but would not be a method for that repair,it would futher weaken a critical area.If the crack doesn't extend too far it would be a repair that cost aprox.$500+
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 07:11 PM
Wouldn't the block need to be align bored, decked, etc. afterwards? What does that cost Bob?
Posted By: HPMike
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 07:30 PM
I've had two blocks here, both with the same type of crack, in street cars and they were running fine...Just in for freshening...One was fixed by a guy who was the best iron welder I had ever seen...Once repaired it was absolutely invisible....Both are still running good, to my knowledge...
Point is there are people that can fix that properly...I wouldn't use it for anything serious, but then no one checks VIN's and most people dont give a crap about "correct" appearance on race cars anyway..
Dont junk it...Original blocks will always be in demand..and there will always be someone that will want it..\
MB
Point is there are people that can fix that properly...I wouldn't use it for anything serious, but then no one checks VIN's and most people dont give a crap about "correct" appearance on race cars anyway..
Dont junk it...Original blocks will always be in demand..and there will always be someone that will want it..\
MB
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 09:10 PM
Quote:
Point is there are people that can fix that properly...I wouldn't use it for anything serious,
Dont junk it...Original blocks will always be in demand..and there will always be someone that will want it..
Yes...
Posted By: WO23Coronet
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/05/15 09:21 PM
I wouldn't junk it if it's otherwise a good block (not decked to within an inch of its life, o-ringed, lightened on a mill etc). Find a good welder who has a reputation for doing good work like this, a few have been mentioned here already. It would definitely need to be line bored, mains and cam tunnel. Decked, who knows until you measure it afterwards
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/06/15 02:21 AM
Seems it isn't that uncommon to find blocks cracked in the mains by the oil holes, (it always seems to be the #2 main for some reason)
Does anyone know why that happens ?
I have a block being looked at for the same issue so it is something I have been following
Not trying to derail scott's post but I figure the guys who know would be following this thread or have already posted here - PM if you prefer
Does anyone know why that happens ?
I have a block being looked at for the same issue so it is something I have been following
Not trying to derail scott's post but I figure the guys who know would be following this thread or have already posted here - PM if you prefer
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/06/15 03:17 AM
Quote:
Seems it isn't that uncommon to find blocks cracked in the mains by the oil holes, (it always seems to be the #2 main for some reason)
Does anyone know why that happens ?
I suspect a load of Nitro methane back in the early 70's was a likely suspect in many cases.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Cracked Block - It's a Hemi - What to do? - 04/06/15 03:17 PM
Quote:
Wouldn't the block need to be align bored, decked, etc. afterwards? What does that cost Bob?
Scott,the line bore/hone and possiable cam tunnel line hone(depending on the extent of the repair will certainly come into play here and depending on the repair process the deck shouldn't be effected.With that said we always recommend line honing and square decking a block as part of any engine build.Block machine work(line hone,square deck,and bore cylinders)usually run about $1000+-
As mentioned the fact that you have two oil passages to consider,one straight to the cam and one angled to the lifter galley is the reason you want it done by a professional shop.