suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ???

Posted By: dragula426

suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/12/09 08:44 PM

it's time to freshen and or change the combo in my 69 sat.street car. i torched a head gasket this fall and now have been thinking of changing things up a bit. the current engine is a 440 w/flat top arias pistons, bme rods, stock crank, a straightline roller(258 268 @.050), w/ edelbrocks, m-1 intake and a 850 holley. the car has a ptc 9" converter(3800 or so stall) 4.10 dana.the car has power steering, heater, radio etc. it weighs 3780w/ me in it.
right now the car runs 11.80s thru exhaust n/a and 10.20's w nos. i think it's sort of a pooch on the motor and for longevity was thinking of eliminating the juice all together. i want to use the edelbrocks on another project,and have access to a set of ported 906's. so, let's hear of some combos w/ ported 906's and a more of an (old school..meaning 108 centerline)flat tappet camshaft.maybe the old 590 mopar cam? am i out of line to think that there should be a combo to run in the low to mid 11's with fairly conservative parts?? let's hear what you have. thanks

Attached picture 4943053-DSC01016.JPG

Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/12/09 09:31 PM

What are the specs on the cam? does it have decent headers?

I would run the ported 906's with the .590 cam, throw in bigger valves, a 5000 stall converter and maybe some 1.6 rockers and a 1050 Dominator and that should get you there, it's a heavy car though so you might need more gear too.

Posted By: 383man

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:12 AM

If you fine tune your combo it should have low 11's in it now. I have run 11.50's @ almost 117 with a stock bottom end 440 other then the .030 over KB pistons. I use 906's I ported myself and the MP .557 cam and I have it at 10.0 comp. My 63 goes just over 3700 with me and the rollbar. But its a street car I drive everywhere including to the track. It has a Dynamic 9.5 street/strip converter and I use 4.30's with 29 x 11.5 Hoosier QTP tires. I see no reason that if I ever take the time for some fine tuning 11.30's could be had in my combo. You can see my full combo at this link. But honestly I would leave the Eddy's on your combo and work with it. What comp are you running now ?? Ron

http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/mmo82008.html

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:37 AM

I put together a pretty good combo this winter. Ran 10.90's in good air and 11.1's in the heat. I did have the edelbrock aluminum heads.

Chrysler Steel Crank
6.760 Ohio Crank HBeam's
.030 SRP FT 10.5 to 1 Comp
Weiand Team G Intake with matched ports
Comp Cam
SOLID-Very strong mid and upper rpm
.016 .018
2500 to 6500
23-232-428 XS282S
244 252 duration @.050
Lift .520 .540 centerline 110�
Set it up at 110 centerline
1.5 ratio rockers
1 3/4 header tubes
5000 stall ATI 8"
28 x 9 x 15 slicks
4.10 gear
850 cfm Barry Grant Race Demon

IMO the heads are worth .3 on the track.

AJ

Posted By: mopar65

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:47 AM

I think your old engine had a lot more in it. I had a throw together cast crank 440. In a 3600 pound 65 plymouth it ran a best of 11.70. but most of the time was a 11.80-11.90 car.Sorry not trying to diss your car it looks awesome. I just think you have a lot more in your old engine. best of luck to you. Mopar65

Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:49 AM

Quote:

I put together a pretty good combo this winter. Ran 10.90's in good air and 11.1's in the heat. I did have the edelbrock aluminum heads.

Chrysler Steel Crank
6.760 Ohio Crank HBeam's
.030 SRP FT 10.5 to 1 Comp
Weiand Team G Intake with matched ports
Comp Cam
SOLID-Very strong mid and upper rpm
.016 .018
2500 to 6500
23-232-428 XS282S
244 252 duration @.050
Lift .520 .540 centerline 110�
Set it up at 110 centerline
1.5 ratio rockers
1 3/4 header tubes
5000 stall ATI 8"
28 x 9 x 15 slicks
4.10 gear
850 cfm Barry Grant Race Demon

IMO the heads are worth .3 on the track.

AJ

how much did the car weigh, what was the elevation?

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:56 AM

Car weighs 3650 with driver and elevation is: ~1400ft.

I am running open headers as well.

AJ

Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 01:23 AM

Quote:

Car weighs 3650 with driver and elevation is: ~1400ft.

I am running open headers as well.

AJ

Thanks, nice build.

Posted By: dragula426

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 02:28 AM

thanks everyone for the suggestions! I WAS WRONG..the converter flashed @ 4200.

ron.... they are flat tops w/ valve reliefs so, comp ratio is ?? i do know that it will run on if i run 91 octane.

mopar man...tti 2-1/8th step. i know probably too big, but they fit so good, they are staying.
cam specs attached.

i know there is some more to be had w/ this combo if i super tuned it, it most likely would like more gear and a looser converter, but i drive this thing everywhere rain or shine! i've driven it 2 hours away to brainerd for a test day and then back with no probs. i want to keep alot of that street ability but want to gain more power and torque thru the whole rpm range (this cam i think is limiting torque down low. what do you think??) since the engine pings/ runs on if i run straight 91 pump gas, i figure i should make it funner to drive (since i have to run race gas anyway) so, keep the combos/ideas/critiques coming! i'm all ears

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Posted By: dakotahotrodder

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 02:42 AM

Is that a solid roller? I've got a straightline solid flat tappet cam with 248/260, .555 lift that I really like. With e-heads& flat tops (10.8:1), m1, & 950 it made 571hp & 573tq. I've gone 10.93 at 3700 lbs w/ 8" converter & 4.10's. That roller of yours sounds like something my motor would like.

Posted By: Von

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 02:52 AM

The combo in my signature is pretty close to what you describe.

So far has run a best of 11.33 with a 4900 flash 8 inch converter and ran a best of 11.49 with a 4200 flash 9.5 converter. I think I can get in the 11.20s as it sits with some chassis tuning. 60s are pretty bad as my best is only a 1.6 even.

Ported 452's(no clue on flow numbers), comp solid [Email]259@.050[/Email], 10.6 comp, 950 Holley, 2 inch hookers, 4.30 gears. All passes have been corked with 3 inch to Edelbrock RPM mufflers, then to 2 1/2 tailpipes. No X or H pipe either. Car weighs 3800 lbs, give or take a few.

By the way it runs fine on pump 91 and the 8 inch converter is almost identical on the street to the 9.5. In fact the 8 inch is WAY tighter on the street than a 10 inch I had in the car 15 years or so ago.

Posted By: 383man

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 05:51 AM

Quote:

thanks everyone for the suggestions! I WAS WRONG..the converter flashed @ 4200.

ron.... they are flat tops w/ valve reliefs so, comp ratio is ?? i do know that it will run on if i run 91 octane.

mopar man...tti 2-1/8th step. i know probably too big, but they fit so good, they are staying.
cam specs attached.

i know there is some more to be had w/ this combo if i super tuned it, it most likely would like more gear and a looser converter, but i drive this thing everywhere rain or shine! i've driven it 2 hours away to brainerd for a test day and then back with no probs. i want to keep alot of that street ability but want to gain more power and torque thru the whole rpm range (this cam i think is limiting torque down low. what do you think??) since the engine pings/ runs on if i run straight 91 pump gas, i figure i should make it funner to drive (since i have to run race gas anyway) so, keep the combos/ideas/critiques coming! i'm all ears

Thats a bummer you have to run race gas. I built a .042 quench in my 906 headed 440 and I run on 92 pump all the time with 38 total timing. I guess mine would run fine on 91 but I never tried it. I also run mine thru the pipes but its a 3" system so it may not go faster uncapped. That race gas can get very pricey. And thats one nice Plymouth you got.

Ron

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 12:47 PM

With the cost of the 440source heads, or eddys, i wouldn't put any money into crack prowen older castings unless i was going to do all the work and already had them. There is absolutely no substitute for big cubes when it comes to street and manners in the same package. My idea of the best setup is the longest stroke you can put in the motor,if you need crank work. There are 4.5 arms out there for the tall deck block. With what you have, they will make a high to mid ten second ride out of your car because they will use up all of the head flow with a stock type port window by 6000 rpm! My first big motor was a 4.5 stroke 4.350 bore 440 making 535 cubes, with ported 906 heads. Went 10.20s at 3400 lbs, cracked the heads and i lost all that expensive porting work! Nice thing about the motor was it only needed a 5700 rpm shift point with a 590 cam . I did use a 1.7 erson rocker on the heads, which worked at those low rpms just fine and helped out the cam quite a bit.

Posted By: Bob_Spelic

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 02:47 PM

My 446 combo:

TRW 10.5:1 old school TRW 2295 forged pistons
eagle 6.76 H-beams
Stock steel crank
Port Eddelbrocks flowing in the 290/212
76cc chamber
Cam is a solid flat tappet 108 centerline
268/276 @ .050, .600 lift in at 104
M1 manifold with a 1050 dominator
2" tti headers
4.10 gear, 31x10.5W slicks
Torqueflight
3750 pounds with driver

Only had it out once last year. Ran a 11.44 @ 2080DA and a 11.32@ 1520DA

Bob Spelic

Posted By: carolinacuda

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 03:57 PM

I agree with others, you shld have more in that combo you have. The combo I have in my 74 cuda is pretty mild with stock suspension and run 11.50 @ 117 mph. 446, with stock rods
30 over
trw 2355 pistons W/10.5 comp.
hughes solid flat tappet 252/256, 572/279 @108
victor int
mghty demon 850
indy EZ's (with just a port match)
Hooker 1-7/8 headers
3.91 with M/T ET.radials (275/60/15)
TCI 10'stall 3500-3800
With some more suspension upgrades I feel confident it will run 11.20-30's

Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 05:00 PM

Quote:

tti 2-1/8th step. i know probably too big, but they fit so good, they are staying.

(this cam i think is limiting torque down low. what do you think??)

Yes the big step headers are hurting bottom end power & torque.

The cam's lsa is too wide for a 10.5:1 440....something with a tighter 108* lsa would be much better.

Randy (Lab Rat) has a very similar combo....almost identical in fact and went from a 112 lsa cam to a 108 lsa cam and picked up a couple of tenths. He stated that the midrange power was dramaticly improved and his 60 ft times reflected that.

His converter also flashed up higher with the newfound bottom end power as well...

Ron

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 06:38 PM

Your combo looks like it should be going faster than it is. Look at 383man's combo, he's got a great old-school combo putting down excellent numbers for a street/strip car. Nothing fancy there except for some well matched components.

Maybe that cam of yours is hurting you. You say it'll diesel if you run on 91, and with all that duration that makes me wonder. You've got enough duration, but on that 112 lobe seperation you are hurting your top end/mid range.

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 08:20 PM

AJ, where is that crate Hemi you had in there for a while? I thought it ran real well for what it was.

If you are looking to pitch it I've got some room in my garbage can up here on the mountain...

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 09:18 PM

Quote:

AJ, where is that crate Hemi you had in there for a while? I thought it ran real well for what it was.

If you are looking to pitch it I've got some room in my garbage can up here on the mountain...

Still have the crate HEMI. It did run very well. Went fastest of 11.20 @ 119. I have it in the garage, needs a good freshen and some more cam.

It will be back eventually.

How have you been?

AJ

Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 09:54 PM

Close to the weight of yours. My 65 Sport Fury
tip the scale just over 4000 lbs.

440+ .030 steel crank, stock rods.
Ross 10.5
Iron 452 casting heads with (Line Perf. porting)
Ultradyne .590/.613 cam
Demon 825 cfm race carb
Mopar M1
MSD

727 w/turbo action RMVB /T.A. J 4500 stall

Dana 60 4.88 w/ 31X18.5 QTP's

11.16 at 118 Cedar Falls Iowa

Had a Holley 750 DP and Mopar dist. and chrome
box at first and did a best 11.38

the old 750 with tired mopar dist was tossed
for the Race Demon and MSD and did 11.16 best.
I wish I would of swapped the 4.88 for 4.56's.
Car ran out of breath at 1000-1100 ft.

Attached picture 4945557-Trump_lg.jpg

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 10:21 PM

BDS you might get real close to the terns with a differant gear!

Posted By: deaks

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 10:39 PM

I love your Fury BDS, got any more pics.
Sorry to hijack.
Mick

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/13/09 11:11 PM

I'm doing well, AJ, thanks for asking. Well for an old man who has the snot beat out of him raising Heather, Kyle, and Kevin. Seriously, a day at a time, I am grateful for each day I can be veritical and taking nourishment.

Kyle wanted to do some chopping on my car....I told him no and he got so mad at me he went out and bought a couple of his own.

Your combo intriques me....it runs so well. You use Cal Tracs, yes? What were the et changes in them, by themselves? What were you using before?

It seems to me, that for the price of Cal Tracs, one could go to a good ladder bar setup and be better off. But, I know you win quite a bit, and are incredibly constistent with them. What are your thoughts?

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/14/09 03:41 AM

Yeah I had heard Kyle bought another one. A 64 right?

I will tell you the combo surprised me a bunch too. I figured at best the car would 11.50. Heck when I was picking components I chose things I thought would put the car around 11.90 - 12.00.

When I first put the cal-tracs on I was running a 500" wedge.

Before Cal Tracs I just had the pinion snubber with SuperStock Springs.

Reason I went with the cal tracs is the 500 hit so hard it bent the pinion snubber into the yoke and broke the drive shaft ears off.

Anyway performance gain.

Before Cal trac 1.55 best 60' ET
After Cal trac 1.45 best 60' ET

Overall ET was better by about .15 - .2

What I really liked about them is that I do not spin anywhere and if I do simply adjust the bars.

The best part about them is that it keeps the suspension loaded down track. Before the Cal tracs my butt would pucker at around 1200' cause the car would walk around. Now the car is solid as a rock running.

As for why I chose the Cal tracs and not ladder bars. 1. Price 2. Didnt have to cut up the car.

My expenses included ~400 for the cal tracs and 100 bucks for longer rear shocks. I do not use the mono leaf, still have the super stock springs.

IMO Cars running in the 10.50 and up range will all benefit almost as much from cal-tracs as they would ladder bars. (not to mention have about 2500 bucks more in the pocket).

The only thing I wish I would have done when I bought them was buy the adjustable shocks. I have them on for this season and they should be great to fine tune for reaction time.

AJ

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/14/09 02:59 PM

A similar camshaft but ground on 108 to 110 lobe separation, and a jump in stall speed to something over 4500 should probably do it with no other changes.

Posted By: 383man

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/14/09 06:00 PM

Quote:

Your combo looks like it should be going faster than it is. Look at 383man's combo, he's got a great old-school combo putting down excellent numbers for a street/strip car. Nothing fancy there except for some well matched components.

Maybe that cam of yours is hurting you. You say it'll diesel if you run on 91, and with all that duration that makes me wonder. You've got enough duration, but on that 112 lobe seperation you are hurting your top end/mid range.

Thank you for the kind words Daytonaturbo.

Ron

Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/15/09 05:26 AM

Quote:

I love your Fury BDS, got any more pics.
Sorry to hijack.
Mick

Hi Mick,
I have a few different pictures in the garage.
When I get a new scanner I will send you some.

Hey Greg,
I hear ya on the 4.56's. I wanted to even try
4.30's with a 200 shot of OJ.

Posted By: Tommy D

Re: suggestions for a low 11 sec. b-body 440 combo ??? - 01/16/09 12:52 AM

Here's one for you with almost all stock components. I run it in a 3700 pound (with me in it) Road Runner. It has a 727 (flashes at 4200), 4.30 gear,

Combo is:

.040 over stock 440

Stock crank

Probe 12.5:1 pistons (actual ratio is 13.1:1)
pistons have .990 pins.

Stock rods (non-six pack) that have had the beams ground, bushed,and balanced.

Professionally, race ported heads (452) with 2.14/1.81 valves.

Comp Solid roller cam #23-742-8
.262/.262 @.050, 110 lobe separation, installed on .105 centerline.

Heads are 452's with Crane gold rockers (.015 tapet lift).

I run a stock (non-port matched) 6 pack intake. The carbs are stock with threads tapped into the metering plates for easy jet changes (Pro Max Carbs).

I have run a best ET of 11.178 @121.55 at Atco in NJ. The elevation was just over 600 feet. The car was run with M & H 275-60-15 cheater slicks with open headers (uncapped 2" street Hookers).

The best 60' with this combo is 1.613.

I know the compression ratio is high on this. And yes...race gas is hugely expensive, and I hate the fact that I rarely street drive the car. The truth is, the six pack is not set up ideally. I believe there are 10's in this combo with a good 4-barrel and single plane intake. I wonder what it would do with a 10.5:1 ratio. I bet it would still run low 11's. There was plenty of tire spin with this combo, and I only ran it at the track once.

The reason there is so much compression is the 452's had previously been shaved .100" to gain compression on another combo. I put this together from used parts that were sitting around our shop.

I think if you built a similar combo, but used your Eddy Heads, an M1 or close, and your 850 Holley, you'd be running 10.80's.

I plan to find out what the combo will run with slicks and a good intake and carb combo soon.

Good luck, and the 'lite looks awesome. What color is that?

Tom