Moparts

Who needs a big block ?

Posted By: Wedgeman

Who needs a big block ? - 03/13/15 04:06 AM

One question has been haunting me for sometime now.....

Who needs a big block when your small block stroker makes 660 + ponies ?

Does a big block will make you go faster in the same body with more torque ?

I see here big block builds hoping to get 600-650 hp and go fast....faster than my 606 hp small block ? should I go big block to get better et's ?

I'm confused.....................

Dan
best 60ft 1.30
best 1/8 mile so far 6.40 sec
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/13/15 04:17 AM

Quote:

One question has been haunting me for sometime now.....

Who needs a big block when your small block stroker makes 660 + ponies ?

Does a big block will make you go faster in the same body with more torque ?

I see here big block builds hoping to get 600-650 hp and go fast....faster than my 606 hp small block ? should I go big block to get better et's ?

I'm confused.....................

Dan
best 60ft 1.30
best 1/8 mile so far 6.40 sec



Torque buddy....its all about the torque. I can leave at 2k, shift at 6400 and run 9.70's on pump gas....A small block will do that as well, but at a little higher rpm, and it needs a lighter car and probably more maintenance in the long run....In the end, the cost is about the same as the small block really should have an after market block at that hp level....Why not a +500 small block? If your spending money....why not a little more.
Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/13/15 05:28 AM

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!

Attached picture 8458399-ADRA1.jpg
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/13/15 06:07 AM

Quote:

One question has been haunting me for sometime now.....

Who needs a big block when your small block stroker makes 660 + ponies ?

Does a big block will make you go faster in the same body with more torque ?

I see here big block builds hoping to get 600-650 hp and go fast....faster than my 606 hp small block ? should I go big block to get better et's ?

I'm confused.....................

Dan
best 60ft 1.30
best 1/8 mile so far 6.40 sec

.


You consider running a 640 with that 130 60 foot fast? Maybe you should consider a big block and run some better times after all you said race car
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 02:20 AM

Quote:

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!



I'd believe that theory..... but I've seen what the Belvedere runs....

It's fun to have a lil block again!
Posted By: dmking

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 04:06 AM

friends have small blocks. all i hear from them is i'll show you a fast small block. and they are fast no doubt.
it depends to me what you want in the end. i my self think a 500" big block can be built with normal parts new or used till you bust the block.
the fast small blocks tend to be more non normal stuff. big heads have one off valve trane and headers.at higher rpms.
but those 4" crank motors make great power. and leave hard.

it is up to you what ever you want i my self think a big block stroked will make power cheaper. but i may be wrong and it depends how much power you want.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 04:14 AM

No you're absolutely right.... the engine in my Mirada was a prime example. Mild port Stage VI, 4500 M1 intake with Ebay dominator (old carb shop piece... I should have kept it!), stock block, stock LY rods (Moparbilly beta tested LY's to the 8's on spray so I wasn't worried about mine ), stock crank welded and cut to 4.15, stock main caps with ARP studs, off the shelf Ross pistons, UD640 mech cam, no hardblock, freshened 4 times and was pretty much used up at the last one.... ran 9.93's on a string the last time I ran the car in 2012. Wore out bullet is STILL in the car two owners later..... but it was a yawner shifting at 5800, trapping at a little over 6k.

I don't have the receipts anymore, but it wasn't as "cheap" as moparbilly stated, but it worked.... for a long time.

......but the small block has brought back the "fun" for me!
Posted By: Wedgeman

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:12 AM

I understand that a big block will make as much pôwer as a stroked small block, only cheaper....

My Indy headed small block cost me over 12k, and I've gone 10.30 in a 3100lbs car, normally aspirated without nitrous.....

From there I'm left with either take as much weight off, or go big block to run high nines.

If every 100lbs lost is 0.1 sec faster, I put the same engine in a 2500lbs car, I should run 9.7 or so....again without nitrous......

After all that thinking, do you really need a big block to go fast ?

Give me your thoughts

Dan
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:23 AM

A 400 block, built with B1 heads and a 4.15 stroke or close to that can make 850 hp . If you need more, up to 1050 hp with the right combo with B1 heads. For a somewhat streetable combo, it will be tough to beat 604 cubes, about as big as a BB can go. There are some good heads for small blocks, but they just can't be built big enough
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:42 AM

Quote:

I understand that a big block will make as much pôwer as a stroked small block, only cheaper....

My Indy headed small block cost me over 12k, and I've gone 10.30 in a 3100lbs car, normally aspirated without nitrous.....

From there I'm left with either take as much weight off, or go big block to run high nines.

If every 100lbs lost is 0.1 sec faster, I put the same engine in a 2500lbs car, I should run 9.7 or so....again without nitrous......

After all that thinking, do you really need a big block to go fast ?

Give me your thoughts

Dan



I was running 8.90s in my car with a 405ci.. a mild
engine but I did rev it... but I didnt do anything
on that engine.. nothing went wrong.. I opened it
up a couple of times just to look.. that was in a 2405#
car with me... I could have made a lot more power
but I didnt feel like working on it(just needed a cam)
EDIT
that was N/A
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:51 AM

Our stock block 340 based 4" stroke W5 mill went 9.8's and that was still at a conservative shift point.... my dad shifted it at less than 6K and usually ran 10 ohs. Car was nowhere close to legal for 9's. I really believe if he'd "let her eat".... it would have gone deeper than that.

we're currently running a fairly mild W8 4" stroke combo and went 9.64 last weekend with the shift light set at 6600. We're just starting to have fun! I've always loved small blocks and as I stated earlier.... we B havin FUN!
Posted By: 383man

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 07:01 AM

I also notice some of these smallblock strokers are bigblock (400 plus) cubes and are a lighter eng. So as Bill Jenkins proved when his lighter smallblock Vega ran right with the hemi's its all about HP to weight. I agree that alot of times the bigblock can be cheaper to build to get the torque. I dont think a smallblock of the same cubes as my bigblock would ran as fast in my heavy B-body and to me a 63 Sport Fury from the Max Wedge era just looks right with a bigblock. But I am very impresed how strong these smallblock stroker Mopars are running. Ron
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 07:20 AM

Quote:

Our stock block 340 based 4" stroke W5 mill went 9.8's and that was still at a conservative shift point.... my dad shifted it at less than 6K and usually ran 10 ohs. Car was nowhere close to legal for 9's. I really believe if he'd "let her eat".... it would have gone deeper than that.

we're currently running a fairly mild W8 4" stroke combo and went 9.64 last weekend with the shift light set at 6600. We're just starting to have fun! I've always loved small blocks and as I stated earlier.... we B havin FUN!




Is that the Motor that went "BOOM" @ Speedworld.??



Chris..
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 02:29 PM

Quote:

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!



Why not ? Mine went 5.60 w a 150 tune,that's 8.80s.I shift at 7000 and it's w 20yr old indy heads.A stock 340 block IMO is also ALOT stronger then 440 blocks as they have a tendency to blow near the pan rail or split from what I've seen of the 3 blown 440 blocks in low hp mopars.
A 400 block and B1s would be a good one I think,but NOT a 440 block.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 03:05 PM

In the end, it boils down to preference. A maxed out small block with tunnelram, best block and heads, 400+ cubes, will no doubt be fast, a big block will be faster, simply because it can be built bigger, and has a bigger bore. So it boils down to budget and preference. A good reference point would be a comp class, or sprint cars, how much power do they make? At what cost? There is something attractive about either engine family. Personally, I am a bigblock guy, ever since I walked away (unintentionally)from a stop light in third gear in a 383 four speed car in 1970. That amazed me, and set my preference pretty much in stone. But that is me. Somebody out there no doubt had a high winding small block, kicked butt on a few BB cars, and fell in love with it, cementing his preference.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 04:04 PM

Quote:




Is that the Motor that went "BOOM" @ Speedworld.??



Chris..



same short block.... different set of heads. #3 rod let go.... It was also #3 intake runner on the leaky heads that kept introducing water to that cylinder. Believe the rod got damaged and it wasn't caught until it was too late.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 04:14 PM

It's all about one thing for me, cost!
I raced 340's for years, nothing expensive, only ran high 11's.
When I bought my first backhalved roller in 2003 I found a 451 short block for 2 grand from a well known racer, added $1200 Eddy heads, M1 intake and the old 590 purpleshaft cam which was $169 and came with lifters! I went easy 10.20's and 2 yrs later was running easy 9.80's at low RPM.

I love small blocks but I won't get back into them until I have extra cash as I know I'd have to spend alot more on it to run that quick in a pump gas street car.

My current Duster will never see a track but I found a great deal on a stroker kit so it is 500 inches with Eddy heads, I have very little money in it, can blow the tires off with ease, and I can run 3.55 gears and a tight converter because of all the torque.
Posted By: 340B5

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:17 PM

Quote:

It's all about one thing for me, cost!
I raced 340's for years, nothing expensive, only ran high 11's.
When I bought my first backhalved roller in 2003 I found a 451 short block for 2 grand from a well known racer, added $1200 Eddy heads, M1 intake and the old 590 purpleshaft cam which was $169 and came with lifters! I went easy 10.20's and 2 yrs later was running easy 9.80's at low RPM.

I love small blocks but I won't get back into them until I have extra cash as I know I'd have to spend alot more on it to run that quick in a pump gas street car.

My current Duster will never see a track but I found a great deal on a stroker kit so it is 500 inches with Eddy heads, I have very little money in it, can blow the tires off with ease, and I can run 3.55 gears and a tight converter because of all the torque.



Sounds like a fun car and that's what it's all about. I'm a SB guy and a semi-reformed rpm junkie, but I really would like to have a 500incher in a mid 60's B body.
Posted By: Wedgeman

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:30 PM

Finally it all comes down to

a money-power ratio ! loll
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 05:34 PM

I love my small blocks. I went 9.90 na at 3300 lbs with a stock block 4 inch crank and Indy 360-1. That was 12.5 to 1 motor so I ran it mixed pump and race fuel. Now I upgraded to a R block and go 9.43 na at 3195 on pump gas. I add a single stage plate to her and she will run 8.56@162. I only shift it at 7000 so I dont think its a high manteince motor, same valve springs last four year and still pull the same.

I loved racing 10.0 index with it two years ago, I would shift it at 5500. Think it would have lived a long time running that class but I built it to go faster.
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 06:20 PM

It's all preference at our level,the next level $ guys do use bb's but if you think it's cheap or no rpm is needed in think your wrong.
500ci pro stock like 10g rpm just like exotic sbs.

My motor cost less then 18g so I don't consider it very exotic by any means.
I am happy with it regardless even though I am having alot stronger sb built as we speak if diamond ever finishes the damn pistons
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/15/15 11:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!



Why not ? Mine went 5.60 w a 150 tune,that's 8.80s.I shift at 7000 and it's w 20yr old indy heads.A stock 340 block IMO is also ALOT stronger then 440 blocks as they have a tendency to blow near the pan rail or split from what I've seen of the 3 blown 440 blocks in low hp mopars.
A 400 block and B1s would be a good one I think,but NOT a 440 block.



I don't know if I would go as far as saying a 340 block is stronger than a 440 but a 360 magnum block is certainly stronger than a 340 block
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 12:08 AM

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 12:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:




Is that the Motor that went "BOOM" @ Speedworld.??



Chris..



same short block.... different set of heads. #3 rod let go.... It was also #3 intake runner on the leaky heads that kept introducing water to that cylinder. Believe the rod got damaged and it wasn't caught until it was too late.





Was there something wrong with the W5's.?? I remember you saying something about porosity in the castings.
Do the W8-W9's have the same problems.??


Chris..
Posted By: dvw

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 01:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:




Is that the Motor that went "BOOM" @ Speedworld.??



Chris..



same short block.... different set of heads. #3 rod let go.... It was also #3 intake runner on the leaky heads that kept introducing water to that cylinder. Believe the rod got damaged and it wasn't caught until it was too late.





Was there something wrong with the W5's.?? I remember you saying something about porosity in the castings.
Do the W8-W9's have the same problems.??


Chris..


I've run both. Regardless if you spray or boost a small block, or chose to run a big block there is one underlying factor, torque. The way the motor pulls from converter flash to the shift. Lets face it low rpm is cheaper and easier to live with. So for the majority of racers here to get their 3100-3600 lb car going they need torque. Generally the simplest least expensive way is to have a bigger motor.
Doug
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 01:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!



Why not ? Mine went 5.60 w a 150 tune,that's 8.80s.I shift at 7000 and it's w 20yr old indy heads.A stock 340 block IMO is also ALOT stronger then 440 blocks as they have a tendency to blow near the pan rail or split from what I've seen of the 3 blown 440 blocks in low hp mopars.
A 400 block and B1s would be a good one I think,but NOT a 440 block.



I don't know if I would go as far as saying a 340 block is stronger than a 440 but a 360 magnum block is certainly stronger than a 340 block [/q

Could you tell me how strong a 360 block is ? I truly never saw anyone fast w one..I Mean 8's or better.
Did they ever even have a forged crank In 360's ?
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 01:57 AM

I'll take u up on that one with my small block.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 02:03 AM

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!



Too bad I sold my engine... hell I'd still take you
on with by back up
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 02:06 AM

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!

i'll take that race any day how much?
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 02:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!

i'll take that race any day how much?



Why you got one that runs that quick....Bet it cost more than my big block...
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 03:44 AM

All I will add is lately I see a lot of under-achieving big blocks and over achieving small blocks.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 03:59 AM

Quote:

All I will add is lately I see a lot of under-achieving big blocks and over achieving small blocks.



No doubt...You guys all know I run Empire, come on up some time. If I recover from my surgery quick enough, we may get the Hemi in the Duster in time for start of the season...Maybe not. I order the rest of the parts tomorrow.

But just like any combo, you need to take the time to sort them out. Don't get me wrong, I love small blocks. I bracket raced them for many years. And I love the new G3 Hemi's too, especially boosted...But when its all said and done, the cost to go X.xx ends up being about the same, so buy what you want.

Some day, I would like to build a boosted combo...
Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 05:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a big block guy, all day long.
But, my 62 Valiant doesn't lend itself to a BBM installation easily, so I was forced to build a 428 small block street engine 615HP, 540 TQ, and a 10.49 best without much tuning so far.

I've had plenty of 440s, built cheaper, that ran about the same NA.

The difference is, I can put two kits on the 440 and run 8's.
Not gonna get there with the small block!!!!



Why not ? Mine went 5.60 w a 150 tune,that's 8.80s.I shift at 7000 and it's w 20yr old indy heads.A stock 340 block IMO is also ALOT stronger then 440 blocks as they have a tendency to blow near the pan rail or split from what I've seen of the 3 blown 440 blocks in low hp mopars.
A 400 block and B1s would be a good one I think,but NOT a 440 block.



Why not? Because I'm frightened to hit the small block with that much hose! I have a Big shot plate on it now, and it went 10.18, sawing through the 904 or convertor (likely both) shift light was on from the hit until I let off the n20 at 1100 ft. It's a 4 bolt main X block.

I split two cylinders in my 440 block on spray, sleeved it, and sprayed it some more, it had a high fill of block hardener in it.

The thing is...that 440 was a 2K$ short block, so I was more inclined to lean on it than this small block, which was considerably more!!

Attached picture 8461577-100_0583-Copy.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 06:18 AM

Why not? Because I'm frightened to hit the small block with that much hose! I have a Big shot plate on it now, and it went 10.18, sawing through the 904 or convertor (likely both) shift light was on from the hit until I let off the n20 at 1100 ft. It's a 4 bolt main X block.

I split two cylinders in my 440 block on spray, sleeved it, and sprayed it some more, it had a high fill of block hardener in it.

The thing is...that 440 was a 2K$ short block, so I was more inclined to lean on it than this small block, which was considerably more!!



I know it was not many years ago we ALL took a chance
on the blocks we ran... I never tested a block 5 years
ago or farther back.. I can say I believe most of
us got lucky if we started pushing a block...now days
I have had decent luck on blocks.. I've cracked 3
cyl walls in 2 blocks.. 2 on the same cyl that was
sleeved.. to me it was a bad sleeve job... years ago
I was a BB guy and I broke more stuff when I ran BB
but like most I tried to push things(for back then)
but the same as I do for the SB stuff
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 07:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!

i'll take that race any day how much?



Why you got one that runs that quick....Bet it cost more than my big block...

I could probably build 2 or 3 for the price of your 605 hemi. and yes it's faster then that.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!

i'll take that race any day how much?



Why you got one that runs that quick....Bet it cost more than my big block...

I could probably build 2 or 3 for the price of your 605 hemi. and yes it's faster then that.



Officially I have $14k and change into it...so if you have a faster small block, for less, I will be impressed. When I was looking at G3's and W8 motors, starting prices were above $15 and they came no where near what I will be making...

So come on up, hopefully we get it dyno'd and into a car before start of season...Got a carb I can borrow?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 04:06 PM

Officially I have $14k and change into it...so if you have a faster small block, for less, I will be impressed. When I was looking at G3's and W8 motors, starting prices were above $15 and they came no where near what I will be making...

So come on up, hopefully we get it dyno'd and into a car before start of season...Got a carb I can borrow?



I sold my R3, W-9 dry sump engine a few months ago
for 10K, with some spare parts.. that was a complete
engine.. carb to pan
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 05:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The reason I kept with the big blocks over the G3 small blocks Hemi is mainly the lack of cubes available...

We like the torque of a big block, you just can't beat it if you keep the revs down. So if you think your small block will keep up with my 605...By all means, pull up in the lane next to me. If we put that engine in my Duster, we are thinking kiss 6.1's in the 1/8th goodbye and hello 5's on pump gas!

i'll take that race any day how much?



Why you got one that runs that quick....Bet it cost more than my big block...

I could probably build 2 or 3 for the price of your 605 hemi. and yes it's faster then that.



Officially I have $14k and change into it...so if you have a faster small block, for less, I will be impressed. When I was looking at G3's and W8 motors, starting prices were above $15 and they came no where near what I will be making...

So come on up, hopefully we get it dyno'd and into a car before start of season...Got a carb I can borrow?

it doesn't take all that much to build a strong small block anymore.mine is just a 416 with a flat tappet cam at the moment. good enough to smack that hemi around a little I do have a dominator that I am thinking about selling but you already have one of those.
Posted By: Eric

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 07:21 PM

I think alot of guys build more motor than the car or combo can work with and then are disappointed with the results. The motor in my old Duster could probably be reproduced for well under 5K and in a #3230 race weight car it went 10.60's at 125. Bob George can attest to the fact that the Arrow motor is very basic also and came in well under 10K. Granted the Arrow is light but it's running 5.50's in the 1/8th with time in the stop. Build smarter not with more $$$ is my motto. That and I'm cheap..
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 07:35 PM

HP is what makes you go fast, you can always use gear multiplication to make TQ if you have HP.

Now that is out of the way I like SB strokers the best. Lots of HP, good blocks (5.9 magnum) available for cheap, I can buy useable cores for $100, and they are already set up for a roller cam. 440s typically start at $500 and up depedngin on what numbers are stamped in it. Throw in another $800 to get the roller cam/lifters.

If I build a lot of 600HP+ engine I would consider the BB more but I will take a SB/904 combo and #200 weight break on a street car for me or most of my customers
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 10:33 PM

Quote:

HP is what makes you go fast, you can always use gear multiplication to make TQ if you have HP.

Now that is out of the way I like SB strokers the best.



Torque is what makes you go Quick.

Steep gears can help with torque but will increase your trap RPM and make street driving more difficult. I had around 7 grand in each of the big blocks that I ran 9.80's with. Although alot of the parts were lightly used, there's no way I could have stayed with a small block and met the goals I wanted, which was a pump gas combo with some streetability and enough torque to run 9's.

When money allows I really do want to build a nasty stroker small block someday though, I especially like the extra room in the engine bay.
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/16/15 11:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

HP is what makes you go fast, you can always use gear multiplication to make TQ if you have HP.

Now that is out of the way I like SB strokers the best.



Torque is what makes you go Quick.

Steep gears can help with torque but will increase your trap RPM and make street driving more difficult. I had around 7 grand in each of the big blocks that I ran 9.80's with. Although alot of the parts were lightly used, there's no way I could have stayed with a small block and met the goals I wanted, which was a pump gas combo with some streetability and enough torque to run 9's.

When money allows I really do want to build a nasty stroker small block someday though, I especially like the extra room in the engine bay.



Why? I went 9.55@140 with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.
Posted By: Wedgeman

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

HP is what makes you go fast, you can always use gear multiplication to make TQ if you have HP.

Now that is out of the way I like SB strokers the best.



Torque is what makes you go Quick.

Steep gears can help with torque but will increase your trap RPM and make street driving more difficult. I had around 7 grand in each of the big blocks that I ran 9.80's with. Although alot of the parts were lightly used, there's no way I could have stayed with a small block and met the goals I wanted, which was a pump gas combo with some streetability and enough torque to run 9's.

When money allows I really do want to build a nasty stroker small block someday though, I especially like the extra room in the engine bay.



Why? I went [Email]9.55@140[/Email] with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.




You should give me hints then........!
Dan
Posted By: Joes66dart

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:13 AM

My dart will run mid 9's with a BB that I have less than $4500 in. I go by the theory that the only substitution for cubic inches is cubic dollars and I don't have the dollars, so inches it is!
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:23 AM

Quote:

Why? I went 9.55@140 with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.



See, you spent alot more than I did.
And it needed more RPM, and more octane. I made the last 2 up, only guessing.
Some of you guys have above average small blocks, it's not the norm to run that quick with a fairly low dollar small block. You really know what you're doing. Running 9's with a cheap mild big block was easy for me and I had a ton of fun doing it. Still want to do a stroker SB soon though.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Why? I went [Email]9.55@140[/Email] with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.



See, you spent alot more than I did.
And it needed more RPM, and more octane. I made the last 2 up, only guessing.
Some of you guys have above average small blocks, it's not the norm to run that quick with a fairly low dollar small block. You really know what you're doing. Running 9's with a cheap mild big block was easy for me and I had a ton of fun doing it. Still want to do a stroker SB soon though.



Hell.. my back up engine is a stock block 395ci W-2
that I run 9.50s in.. home ported heads and a roller
cam.. the biggest price thing is the roller cam and
they are that bad.. thats with a small stroker 3.79
Posted By: Porter67

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:36 AM

This is a good one here and good points on both sides. Ive a purpose built street car made for one thing and there is not one area I skimped on.

With that said the parts list alone is enough to make me sick and its odd how many run race blocks around here (mopar, ford and chevy) on the street and oem blocks at the strip.

I do think dollar for dollar if I had went the BB route, aftermarket block and it would have to be a long stroke BB that I would not need to spray it on a controller like I do the small block stroker.

But just like many who have been into small blocks and it seems equally with long stroke big blocks the money factor will keep me from ever changing over.

I would think only the ones who have the same model cars and as close to being done as equal money, one with a small block stroker and one with a big block stroker could give us the true answer.

So for now its just wallet vs wallet and possibly ego vs ego and a grudge match (which is fun).
Posted By: ademon

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:52 AM

Who needs a big block? Well some years back before the stroker crank for the SB a lot of guys wanted a BB. Now not nearly as many want one when you can get into the high 10's with a fairly mild well thought out 408/416/426"/440ish SB!
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 03:53 AM

Quote:

This is a good one here and good points on both sides. Ive a purpose built street car made for one thing and there is not one area I skimped on.

With that said the parts list alone is enough to make me sick and its odd how many run race blocks around here (mopar, ford and chevy) on the street and oem blocks at the strip.

I do think dollar for dollar if I had went the BB route, aftermarket block and it would have to be a long stroke BB that I would not need to spray it on a controller like I do the small block stroker.

But just like many who have been into small blocks and it seems equally with long stroke big blocks the money factor will keep me from ever changing over.

I would think only the ones who have the same model cars and as close to being done as equal money, one with a small block stroker and one with a big block stroker could give us the true answer.

So for now its just wallet vs wallet and possibly ego vs ego and a grudge match (which is fun).



Well we have been running 9's in our pump gas unported but stroked RB in the Duster....We keep the r's down and have put a lot of passes on her. Its been a great combo as I had my doubts, but it has worked really well at 735hp.

This year, I sold the little 484 Hemi in my street car and built a pump gas 605 all aluminum Hemi. I was very disappointed with it as far as performance goes. I decided to change all the things I hated about the old engine. With that said, my street car (Cuda) is only good to 10.0 and I think 850hp will put it well under that, so if things go well, it will land in the race car for a season and the 512 wedge in the street car....Take any bets what it will run if we do? Mine is 9.1ish
Posted By: dvw

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 04:03 AM

My big block has been 9.12@147 but that's at 3340lbs with Eddy carbs. At some of these lighter weights that have been posted it has been 8.10@169 with Holleys.
Doug
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/17/15 04:18 AM

Quote:

My big block has been [Email]9.12@147[/Email] but that's at 3340lbs with Eddy carbs. At some of these lighter weights that have been posted it has been [Email]8.10@169[/Email] with Holleys.
Doug



I learned years ago that its weight to HP and also
learned that its cheaper and easier on parts to build
a light car... I know guys were making 800+ hp out
of my type of sb but at more cubes.. I just wanted
something simple and no maintenance.. thats what
I had.. so if I wanted I could have gone much quicker
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 01:27 PM

I had the pleasure of installing a starter last night on my big block Duster.
Pull steering column, remove valve cover, wrestle with starter for an hour or so just trying to get fingers in there, try to remove starter wires, wrestle new starter in there, fight wires again, install steering column, drink a cold one. 2 hour process.

Anyone want to buy a healthy big block?
Posted By: Wedgeman

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 01:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Why? I went [Email]9.55@140[/Email] with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.



See, you spent alot more than I did.
And it needed more RPM, and more octane. I made the last 2 up, only guessing.
Some of you guys have above average small blocks, it's not the norm to run that quick with a fairly low dollar small block. You really know what you're doing. Running 9's with a cheap mild big block was easy for me and I had a ton of fun doing it. Still want to do a stroker SB soon though.



Hell.. my back up engine is a stock block 395ci W-2
that I run 9.50s in.. home ported heads and a roller
cam.. the biggest price thing is the roller cam and
they are that bad.. thats with a small stroker 3.79




9.50 ! how much does your car weight ?

Dan
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 03:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Why? I went [Email]9.55@140[/Email] with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.



See, you spent alot more than I did.
And it needed more RPM, and more octane. I made the last 2 up, only guessing.
Some of you guys have above average small blocks, it's not the norm to run that quick with a fairly low dollar small block. You really know what you're doing. Running 9's with a cheap mild big block was easy for me and I had a ton of fun doing it. Still want to do a stroker SB soon though.



Hell.. my back up engine is a stock block 395ci W-2
that I run 9.50s in.. home ported heads and a roller
cam.. the biggest price thing is the roller cam and
they are that bad.. thats with a small stroker 3.79




9.50 ! how much does your car weight ?

Dan



Thats the race car.. with me its 2400#.. race weight
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 07:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Why? I went [Email]9.55@140[/Email] with a 422 small block that I had 10k in. I went 9.90 with a stock block and 360-1 Indy heads. I had 8500 in that motor.



See, you spent alot more than I did.
And it needed more RPM, and more octane. I made the last 2 up, only guessing.
Some of you guys have above average small blocks, it's not the norm to run that quick with a fairly low dollar small block. You really know what you're doing. Running 9's with a cheap mild big block was easy for me and I had a ton of fun doing it. Still want to do a stroker SB soon though.



I only turn my motors to 7000. The stock block one I only turned to 6500. It had a Mopar crank 4" eagle h beam rods and JE pistons. Off the shelf solid roller, nothing special.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 08:07 PM

Quote:

One question has been haunting me for sometime now.....

Who needs a big block when your small block stroker makes 660 + ponies ?

Does a big block will make you go faster in the same body with more torque ?

I see here big block builds hoping to get 600-650 hp and go fast....faster than my 606 hp small block ? should I go big block to get better et's ?

I'm confused.....................

Dan
best 60ft 1.30
best 1/8 mile so far 6.40 sec



because it's easier and cheaper to do with a BB especially in b-body. I'd also wager a 500ci wedge, even w/ the same HP #'s will have lots more torque and at a lower rpm. It will also require less converter and gear to do the same work. But to each his own.
Posted By: mopar65

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/18/15 10:37 PM

Quote:

I had the pleasure of installing a starter last night on my big block Duster.
Pull steering column, remove valve cover, wrestle with starter for an hour or so just trying to get fingers in there, try to remove starter wires, wrestle new starter in there, fight wires again, install steering column, drink a cold one. 2 hour process.

Anyone want to buy a healthy big block?



I do I do that is if i had the money. lol so far i have been in the mid 10 with my mild stock stroke pump gas 440 in my 73 dodge dart. but there are some very empresive small blocks are here too.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/19/15 02:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I had the pleasure of installing a starter last night on my big block Duster.
Pull steering column, remove valve cover, wrestle with starter for an hour or so just trying to get fingers in there, try to remove starter wires, wrestle new starter in there, fight wires again, install steering column, drink a cold one. 2 hour process.

Anyone want to buy a healthy big block?



I do I do that is if i had the money. lol so far i have been in the mid 10 with my mild stock stroke pump gas 440 in my 73 dodge dart. but there are some very empresive small blocks are here too.



Mine in my Duster is not so bad with the RB....I have fender well headers and a Magnumforce k-member....But the Hemi might route the headers that way, so I might end up in the same position at a later date.
Posted By: Duner

Re: Who needs a big block ? - 03/19/15 03:17 AM

I get 900 ft lbs of torque out of my smallblock....
But I don't believe for a second that I couldn't get more than that out of a bigblock with the same approach. I'm thinking of skipping both ideas and just going for a modern Hemi.
© 2024 Moparts Forums