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My 337 MW intake....(updated w/pic)

Posted By: Streetwize

My 337 MW intake....(updated w/pic) - 03/09/15 01:34 AM

I took my Virgin MP 337 Max Wedge intake manifold over to Hollis at HP Engines on Friday to have ( 35 year NASCAR engine legend) Larry Smith work it over. Super Nice guy and worked for both Penske AND Evranham on the Dodge motors....can't wait to get it back

Thinking I might let have to let him work on my Victor 340 some more too.
Posted By: Old School

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/09/15 03:30 AM

Bobby, please post some pics when you get it back. Is he doing plenum work too?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/09/15 03:42 AM

Hey buddy!

Long time, no hear!!

Larry is gonna make the chips fly all the way through it. Either Hollis or I will post up some pics.

Really excited to have this level of talent working on in.
Posted By: The Cuda Guy

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 08:11 AM

Street what are you going to be this intake on? What kind of power you think its going to make?

Don
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 08:28 AM

I have this Vintage NOS Edelbrock intake for a low deck motor which I hear they only made a few years..Id like to put it on a 512 stroker build for my 63 to keep with a max wedge theme..Ive heard bad stories about blowing the lid open on these intakes from poor flow and fuel puddling..I would like to know if your guy could give me any help bullet proofing this intake..??

Attached picture 8455194-400.jpg
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 02:49 PM

Add a couple pop off valves. If you want to avoid drilling holes in the lid (I wouldn't drill a nice original lid) just add some spacer plates under the carbs and add holes to the sides of the plates.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 03:00 PM

It's going on my 517 Low Deck (Chapman Stage VI Max Wedge Heads )in place of my ported Indy dual plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9uEzqzdA0
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 07:49 PM

@ 72N96RR

Call HP Engines at (704) 474-0109

hpengines.net

Ask for Larry Smith
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 07:53 PM

Quote:

I have this Vintage NOS Edelbrock intake for a low deck motor which I hear they only made a few years..Id like to put it on a 512 stroker build for my 63 to keep with a max wedge theme..Ive heard bad stories about blowing the lid open on these intakes from poor flow and fuel puddling..I would like to know if your guy could give me any help bullet proofing this intake..??



simpler method would be just run chokes on the carbs and that wont happen. I went 140mph with edles with chokes.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/10/15 08:27 PM

Quote:

I have this Vintage NOS Edelbrock intake for a low deck motor which I hear they only made a few years..Id like to put it on a 512 stroker build for my 63 to keep with a max wedge theme..Ive heard bad stories about blowing the lid open on these intakes from poor flow and fuel puddling..I would like to know if your guy could give me any help bullet proofing this intake..??

If you run Holleys on it use soft slip on rubber caps on the PCV tubes on the throttle plates as a blow off valve A friend of mine did that on his stock M.W. Mopar crossram using Holley 650 D.P. carbs because he had heard the same thing about them The best solution on start up is to make certain you have the primary throttle blades open 1/4 to 1/3 of the way open every time you start it in case it does try to sneeze so the pressure has a way out of the manifold
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have this Vintage NOS Edelbrock intake for a low deck motor which I hear they only made a few years..Id like to put it on a 512 stroker build for my 63 to keep with a max wedge theme..Ive heard bad stories about blowing the lid open on these intakes from poor flow and fuel puddling..I would like to know if your guy could give me any help bullet proofing this intake..??

If you run Holleys on it use soft slip on rubber caps on the PCV tubes on the throttle plates as a blow off valve A friend of mine did that on his stock M.W. Mopar crossram using Holley 650 D.P. carbs because he had heard the same thing about them The best solution on start up is to make certain you have the primary throttle blades open 1/4 to 1/3 of the way open every time you start it in case it does try to sneeze so the pressure has a way out of the manifold



Excellent information from everyone thank you..This was my (Scotts) first solution..1/2 inch spacer with 140 psi pop off valves inserted into the pcv holes..These with rubber caps on the holley throttle plates should be enough insurance in case of a hiccup.. whaddya think??

Attached picture 8455961-IMG_1554.JPG
Posted By: Jerry

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 02:56 AM

I think the pop off valves are too small. you need volume and actuation at much lower pressure. if you want I can mod those with a custom plate. I would drill 3-4 holes per side about 1/2" each. held closed with a 1/4 in plate held down with two smaller springs.
Posted By: DusterDave

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 03:38 AM

Quote:

I think the pop off valves are too small. you need volume and actuation at much lower pressure. if you want I can mod those with a custom plate. I would drill 3-4 holes per side about 1/2" each. held closed with a 1/4 in plate held down with two smaller springs.


Agreed. Way too small.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 03:53 AM

FWIW I have messed around with multiple Xram setups using dual 3/4" pop offs over the years (30 or so years), most were Hemi's and small blocks. To date I've never had an intake crack when it "sneezed", the valves did their thing. Having said that, a larger opening with a plate, or more valves, wouldn't hurt any, the more pressure relief and the faster, the better.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 04:39 AM

And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast

Larry is done with the manifold ( the one without a pop-off valve, lol) I'll try to post pics in a day or 2
Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 04:40 AM

Quote:

FWIW I have messed around with multiple Xram setups using dual 3/4" pop offs over the years (30 or so years), most were Hemi's and small blocks. To date I've never had an intake crack when it "sneezed", the valves did their thing. Having said that, a larger opening with a plate, or more valves, wouldn't hurt any, the more pressure relief and the faster, the better.





Why the 140PSI valves, waaaay to much, IMO. The manifold is normally under vacuum .

I don't think I would want any more then +50 PSI in that intake.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 04:45 AM

Quote:

And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast

Larry is done with the manifold ( the one without a pop-off valve, lol) I'll try to post pics in a day or 2




Oh yeah, I forgot this was your thread.

I saw your vid before of your 512ci charger. It does sound mean as hey.

I forget, what cam and comp, do you have in that beast that makes it sound like that.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 05:41 AM

Quote:


Why the 140PSI valves, waaaay to much, IMO. The manifold is normally under vacuum .

I don't think I would want any more then +50 PSI in that intake.



I meant to comment on that....To clarify, I didn't customize his intake, I just offered him the idea. I am also a proponent of a very soft valve, because, as you pointed out, the intake is under vacuum, no need for a high pressure opening valve.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 02:08 PM

Bobby... if you don't mind me asking, what does it cost to have him port a manifold? Wonder if he's ever whittled on a Barton hemi manifold? You can PM me w/ cost if you want. I've always wondered if there is any real benefit to having the manifold fully ported. Not flow bench results, but timeslip results.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 04:41 PM

Quote:

Bobby... if you don't mind me asking, what does it cost to have him port a manifold? Wonder if he's ever whittled on a Barton hemi manifold? You can PM me w/ cost if you want. I've always wondered if there is any real benefit to having the manifold fully ported. Not flow bench results, but timeslip results.



Chip, every intake I have ever run gets ported. Since I ported Nesbitt's intake he can't control wheelstand issues. I put in 2 hours work on Terry Shaw's intake just trying something that I thought would help and he picked up 1 mph and it will pick up more because it was very lean and his heads are stock.

Nesbitt's intake

Attached picture 8456382-1497593_934343353246363_2276605807734194912_n.jpg
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 04:47 PM

before

Attached picture 8456389-10443040_970526859628009_6629701489670319522_o.jpg
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 05:01 PM

Check your private messages Ray.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 05:05 PM

Sport,

Thanks for the kind words.

the 517 has 11.8:1 (IIRC) and a Bullet 264/268@.050 Hydraulic roller, it revs safely to 6800-7000, it's the only motor I've ever needed the shift light for it gets there really quick, especially for a big block.

Going to 4.10's and an aluminum flywheel 4 speed (what the car originally came with).

Chip, I'm sure porting is all dependent on the type of manifold (ex: Tunnel ram vs a 1 4BBL) and the level of work involved.

Do you know Hollis at HP, Chip? If not I'd really suggest you meet him and Larry, I introduced Stephen Daurity to him back around the Holidays, Absolutely GREAT Mopar people to work with.

www.hpengines.net check out his Facebook page he's got some pics of Larry's work, I know they just finished a 5.0 Coyote motor and the heads looked AMAZING
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/11/15 08:15 PM

No, I don't know them. I've had good luck w/ a local shop here (Jordan's Performance in Conway) since I stopped doing my own machine work.
I was just curious what they charged to do your manifold...I'm sure mine would probably be more. It has a lot of material to work with.
Posted By: HP Engines

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/12/15 05:31 PM

Depending upon floor architect of the plenum,
on the crossram,
Larry may have some pointers to help with
Puddle. Whether it be grinding, reshaping,or
perhaps epoxy depending on fuel type used.
Plastic bolts on the lid is good insurance too.
Btw, streetwize your intake looks great!
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/12/15 05:53 PM

Quote:

Depending upon floor architect of the plenum,
on the crossram,
Larry may have some pointers to help with
Puddle. Whether it be grinding, reshaping,or
perhaps epoxy depending on fuel type used.
Plastic bolts on the lid is good insurance too.
Btw, streetwize your intake looks great!


Well hey Hollis! Heard a lot of good things about your shop!
My Barton hemi manifold is not the crossram...I have the single 4500 manifold.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/12/15 05:59 PM

The plastic bolts idea is really good, thanks for that.

R.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/12/15 09:41 PM

Awesome idea! Have you used any specific type?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/16/15 03:40 PM

I haven't picked it up yet but here's a pic Hollis sent me of Mr LarrySmith's 337 Porting

Attached picture 8461726-image.jpg
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/16/15 04:21 PM

Quote:

I haven't picked it up yet but here's a pic Hollis sent me of Mr LarrySmith's 337 Porting



that is extremely nice work
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/16/15 04:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Depending upon floor architect of the plenum,
on the crossram,
Larry may have some pointers to help with
Puddle. Whether it be grinding, reshaping,or
perhaps epoxy depending on fuel type used.
Plastic bolts on the lid is good insurance too.
Btw, streetwize your intake looks great!


Well hey Hollis! Heard a lot of good things about your shop!
My Barton hemi manifold is not the crossram...I have the single 4500 manifold.



I have the Barton single too, and have thought about having it cleaned up. But everything is so hush-hush. I would just like to know how much improvement can be had and how much it would cost. But I just never see that info. With it, it would be a simple decision.

If you get it done, if you would share the bottom line, I would appreciate it. If there is enough to be gained to justify the cost, I would like to have mine done, too.
Posted By: BradH

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/16/15 05:15 PM

Oh, can I play "post a picture of a ported intake plenum", too?

Here's an older pic into the heart of my Franken-intake RB M1 4150.

Attached picture 8461814-BH_HughesRB4150.jpg
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/16/15 08:02 PM

On a Street Dominator (similar to the M1) I always make the #1 and #7 roof a slightly taller Trapezoid (Gumby's head, I call it) than the port next to it in the plenum (in this case #2 and #5 respectively) that pulses before it. It seems to work really well judging from before/after plug readings where #1 and 7 were a little lean.

In a single plane with adjacent firing holes the first fed tends to be the best fed on many Siamese port heads and intakes. An old NASCAR guy taught me this many moons ago.

I used to have some shots of my SD mods (in rough, unfinished form) that illustrate it but I think I conveyed the Gist of it.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 03:32 PM

More Pics

Attached picture 8468672-IMG_5221.JPG
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 03:32 PM

the other side (tough to tell)

Attached picture 8468673-IMG_5222.JPG
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 03:33 PM

side of plenum, roof radius work

Attached picture 8468674-IMG_5224.jpg
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 03:40 PM

Last one, pics don't do it justice

Attached picture 8468676-IMG_5227.jpg
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 05:16 PM

Nice work!!
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/23/15 11:26 PM

I think I'll be bringing Mr Larry some more stuff to whittle on Purdy soon, very happy with the quality of the porting work, it's a shame to cover it up with a carburetor now
Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/25/15 06:38 PM

That looks awesome Bobby

I'm anxious to hear how the stroker likes that manifold.

Fwiw mine was installed straight out of the box and wasn't even port matched to the EZ 295's. Compared to the taller ICH 440-2 it was only down 10hp on the dyno in back to back tests. I'm sure your's is every bit as good as the ICH piece if not better

AndyF stated in the past that the 337 and Super Victor were identical on his dyno mule making in the 800HP range.


You can't beat the 337 for those of us who are clearance challenged wanting to run a stock hood.



Ron
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/25/15 08:21 PM

You and Old School with your 572" RB's , my 517 B is just a 'lil small block by comparison!

yeah, I'm looking forward to trying it out, maybe this week-end, looks like I'll need to fab up a new Regulator bracket which will take me 3x what it takes to swap the manifold itself, lol

Attached picture 8470826-DSC00016-Copy.JPG
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/25/15 10:22 PM

Any plans to take it down the dragstrip?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 01:01 AM

I'd like to get a back to back 440-2D vs 337 at Zmax, they're opening back up for Test n tune in a couple weeks.

Being an original R/T 4 speed Dana car I'm ( understandably) a bit reluctant to beat on it too bad like I did from the early 80's to mid 90's ( before they were worth more than 4 yrs of college tuition, lol) can't afford to restore it again. The motor belongs in an A body post car ( like it was supposed to go in). But a couple passes at Zmax should do both the car ( and me) some good for old times sake.

Attached picture 8471060-image.jpg
Posted By: BradH

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 01:57 AM

Is the 337 even available from MP any more?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 02:17 AM

I don't think so, haven't heard of one sold as new in quite a while.

I tell you it doesn't look like much but the taper from the plenum to the port outlet is very aggressive and seems well-designed for high RPM
Posted By: sdaurity

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 04:07 PM

Bobby if you ever bring that charger up here for me to work on you wouldn't ever get it back! I LOVE 70 B bodies. Ok back to work.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 04:31 PM

Quote:

I don't think so, haven't heard of one sold as new in quite a while.

I tell you it doesn't look like much but the taper from the plenum to the port outlet is very aggressive and seems well-designed for high RPM



That would be a shame because it is such a good intake
Posted By: BradH

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 06:21 PM

Ray - You still have yours?
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 07:39 PM

Quote:

Ray - You still have yours?



No, I sold it to a friend. Should've kept it but I'm a hemi guy now
Posted By: tigger1

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 09:34 PM

I just purchased a new 337. I ordered it late December and it arrived in February.
Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 09:59 PM

Found this link online....might be worth a try for those who are looking

https://www.parts.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...Number-P4876337


Ron
Posted By: BradH

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 10:01 PM

Picture in that is actually a Stage VI RB 4500 intake, not the 337.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 10:15 PM

That's similar to the one like I bought from you, wasn't it Brad? The one Roger (Dr Air) Ported? Except that one was a 4150 flange.

Was going to use it but wound up putting the Chapmans on a Low deck instead.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 10:21 PM

What's interesting about the 337 is the as-cast head flange ports are small for a true MW, I think they did that in case somebody wanted to use it on a well relieved standard port.

The other thing is that with the ports opened up to ~1.3" x 2.6" the plenum to runner transition port opening is Huge by comparison, Mine is ported to almost the size of a business card in square area. That's a good amount of port taper across maybe only 5.75" of runner length. It would be a torque killer on 440 cubes but I'm hoping with a 4.300" stroke 517 with 11.7:1 CR it will pull very well.
Posted By: BradH

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/26/15 10:23 PM

Quote:

That's similar to the one like I bought from you, wasn't it Brad? The one Roger (Dr Air) Ported? Except that one was a 4150 flange.


Yep, that's how I recognized it as not being a 337.

The RB Stage VI intake has that same extreme taper from the runner entry down to the head opening, too. I think on a 500-ish (+) combination it helps the mid-to-top, but on a 450-ish like I dynoed it on, it had a big hole in the curve under the torque peak (but it did make a lot of HP up top).
Posted By: Blues_Cuda

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/27/15 05:09 AM

Quote:

You and Old School with your 572" RB's , my 517 B is just a 'lil small block by comparison!

yeah, I'm looking forward to trying it out, maybe this week-end, looks like I'll need to fab up a new Regulator bracket which will take me 3x what it takes to swap the manifold itself, lol



Do you have any plans for the old intake? Looking for a used Indy dual plane to mess around with.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/27/15 01:44 PM

Blues,

To be honest I have a TON of work in that manifold and it works awesomely so I doubt I will be turning it loose.

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about with the 337, if you go to the tech Archives on Firefighters 572" (!!!) motor the Port matched (but still unported) 2d was only down 4hp (717 to 721) and 7 lb/ft (697 vs 705) to the 337, that's hardly a runaway victory (about 2/10th of 1 Per Cent) in my book. Dyno numbers are one thing, but roll-on part throttle torque (ie, "real world driving" is is almost always going to favor a 180 dual plane.

on a 750+ hp high RPM motor I would expect the difference to be more dramatic but up to 700 and especially with an automatic I don't think I would call the single plane a big (or even a noticeable) advantage, and at 470 to 500" I would think the advantage might likely be less noticeable or may actually be in the dual planes favor (in terms of average torque)

In my own case now I have a fully ported to fully ported comparison, I want to spend a day on the Chassis dyno and then hopefully Z-max at a Test & tune, but that will likely be after I swap back to the 833 4 speed. Ootb I didn't feel the 337 would have had any appreciable advantage over the max ported 2D so I never was too motivated to swap it.

It's not readily apparent from the pics but Larry did a lot of whittling on the 337, it should work really well. The ports are a good bit larger than before the walls between the runners are a good bit thinner, it's not just a polish job by any stretch for sure.
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: My 337 MW intake.... - 03/29/15 03:57 PM

Looks like some educated porting to me, I think you chose well.
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