Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block

Posted By: XXHEMI

Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 01:16 AM

I know blocks have been talked about often hear but I cant seem to find any info??

Can anyone lead me in the right direction for a Wedge block? Needs to be cast as it will be going in my F.A.S.T Max Wedge so it has to look some what stock with stock mounts.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks Ed

Attached picture 8447913-MIR2013.jpg

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 01:39 AM

The only one I've seen first hand is the Koleneo Block and I can say it did look like a real nice block.

Here's a link to the cut away pics from Koffel's web site.

http://www.b1heads.com/engines/cutaway/page_01.htm

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 01:45 AM

Are they avalible? I thought there was a hold up with them.
I agree they look nice!

Posted By: 64MAX

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 02:01 AM

Ed, check your PMs. Thanks.

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 02:47 AM

Quote:

Are they avalible? I thought there was a hold up with them.
I agree they look nice!

Sorry, that I can't answer.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 03:09 AM

The NO Blocks issue has been a problem for us Mopar guys for years and years--maybe decade--I for one am sick and tired of it! Indy with their sorry service and block that needs a week in the machine shop to be used After you pay out the ying yang for it--KB--Wonderful unit! The wait time and expense --whew!! No other options--I think it is reason enough to switch brands and move on--as the supply of 440 stock blocks dwindle down to the scuds it is even worse.
I built a FED and it is Chevy by way of the fact that the chassis was already designed for it when I got it--so...I built one--
The report:
Built a wonderful race engine with parts that were available next day at crazy low prices compared to Mop's and have been racing and having Fun ( the reason I have ever screwed around with cars and engines) I can get my choice of two brands of Quailty blocks with about a dozen options form about 20 vendors all over night and now I can get China copy of those great blocks for $1200--all will handle any HP level that can be imagined and the Dart units come out of the wrapper ready to wash and race in most cases--so......go ahead...save up twice what a block is worth and wait--then get the scud blocks that Mopar threw in the dumptser that some enterprising person dug out of the dumpster and with NO regard for the flaws that got them there --go ahead and sell them to you as New Mopar blocks--and after you discover why they were junked I bet you trashed some nice parts as paid to learn that --
We have been screwed over for over a decade on blocks--I for one----GET THE MESSAGE!!!
I want to race and have fun and go fast--I NO LONGER care what brand does that for me--
After years of building other brands--as well as my beloved Mopars I finally see what I was blind to all those years I was paying double for a Pentestar item--It is the truth boys and...even now as I am waiting in line to do that again--there are NO friggin blocks to be had--and the 50 or so that " Are in process" ( I gag at that line after 20 years of hearing it) will be presold and gone the day they all ship so none for next weeks wanters--Ya'll can have that misery--it ain't worth it anymore.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 02:47 PM

I think your best bet is to find a used motor for sale and part it out and keep the block. At least you could find one with a history, already machined and pretty much ready for your project. You might even come out a few bucks ahead

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 03:12 PM

Koleno isn't making anything.

I think your only option for a new block is either KB or Indy, but both in aluminum. That HP Performance place may also be making blocks still, but I think they're aluminum only also.
You'll have to scrounge around and find someone selling an older MP, Koleno, or World cast iron block and probably pay more for it than they did when it was new.

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 04:06 PM

Thanks for the info guys!

Good thing is I don't need it today. I am just getting ready for the next time we need to freshin it up. It has been a great build but I do believe we are at a stock blocks limits.

Rumor has it there will be Three new Hemi cars out in F.A.S.T this year and I may have to start looking for more? The class as been a little stale the last few years and it did not make sence to spend any money on new things. Hopefully this may put a little life back in the class and get everybody thinking again?

So what cast iron block do you guys think is the best? What should I be looking for?

Thanks again Ed

Posted By: earthmover

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 05:01 PM

ive got a buddy that has a world block still on the pallet he got it from barton that he don't need...he got it to build a 572 but found a great deal on a complete motor so the block was push under the shelf....pm if you would like is contact info

Posted By: dannysbee

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 06:43 PM

Ed the bad thing about the aftermarket blocks is that they are a lot heavier than a production block. Of coarse that 4.5" bore could help.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/04/15 09:40 PM

Quote:

Ed the bad thing about the aftermarket blocks is that they are a lot heavier than a production block. Of coarse that 4.5" bore could help.

Ed is running F.A.S.T. , have they even opened up to the use of a siamese block , if not his only choice is to find an old MP P5007671 Block , all the other MP wedge blocks were crossbolted mains and I think they would be siamese bore blocks ? Ootherwise find a late 70's 440 block that is standard bore and build from there.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 01:16 AM

So how much hp do you think your going to make? Do you need an after market block? We are making 735hp with a stock block and 250 passes on it. No need to run 10's with anything but a stock block I would think....

And good luck if you want an after market block...especially in cast iron.

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 01:23 AM

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 03:26 AM

i guess all the good block manufacturers are deaf and certainly dont need our money.indy WANTS all our money,and kb HAS all our money.....

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 03:31 AM

Dragula

Presently making over 800hp and going thru the traps a 7500 in the stock block and I also have well over 200 passes on it. My Hopes are the block will help make more power not sure if it will? My main consern is keeping it together. I am pretty sure most of the other cars that are running up front have after market blocks? Time to join the party.

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 03:45 AM

since production vanished,used prices are now more than original new.maybe koleno will retool and start production again.hopefully on a diet too.i dont think dart has any interest.somebody needs to fill the market with something respectable and affordable.those companys know there is a desperate need.not that it matters,but, i sent an inquiry to dart asking about possible wedge and hemi blocks.if i get a response i will forward it.i need another block also..cross your fingers...

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 05:40 AM

Quote:

Dragula

Presently making over 800hp and going thru the traps a 7500 in the stock block and I also have well over 200 passes on it. My Hopes are the block will help make more power not sure if it will? My main consern is keeping it together. I am pretty sure most of the other cars that are running up front have after market blocks? Time to join the party.

I would say your rpm is pushing the limits. As everyone said, the after market ones are heavier. I just sold mine and it weighed a bunch...Bad place to add weight...

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 05:42 AM

Ed.
Go super lightweight on the rest of the car and you'll only need 600 or even less to do the same that you're doing with 800+. Plus it will last longer with lower unstrung RPM's.

Posted By: mprhound

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 07:06 AM

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

Already snagged it!!!!

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 01:57 PM

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 03:17 PM

Quote:

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

The World blocks are around 80-100 lbs. heavier than a stock block.

For your car/class I'd think that'd be a big problem. Unless someone has a CNC lightening program for them. I have a World Hemi block in the garage and that thing is F'n heavy! It was really heavy before we bored 1/4" out of each cylinder, lol.
Your best option is gonna be finding someone w/ an older MP megablock they are selling.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 05:54 PM

Quote:

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

Ed is FAST allowing siamese bore blocks now where not originally available ?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 05:55 PM

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

There was never a factory crossbolt wedge block.

Posted By: mprhound

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

There was never a factory crossbolt wedge block.

Posted By: mprhound

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 06:49 PM

And

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 10:11 PM

Ed. In the vicinity of 600 LBS removed within the last 20 years.
Serious. I'm lurking on the magic 3000 LBs mark or less sometime soon. only about 100 Lbs off that mark.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/05/15 10:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

There was never a factory crossbolt wedge block.

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.Lenny Davis has one of the last ones I had in the shop.

440-cross-bolt-P5249347
440-cross-bolt-long stroke clearence-P5249388

We still have one that needs repaired in the shop.

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 05:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

Ed is FAST allowing siamese bore blocks now where not originally
available ?

John
I did get the green light on a world block. To be honest I was against the block rule all along!

Funny thing nobody got any faster?

Posted By: Von

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 07:21 AM

Quote:

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.

Cept nobody said anything about MP blocks.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

The World blocks are around 80-100 lbs. heavier than a stock block. For your car/class I'd think that'd be a big problem. Unless someone has a CNC lightening program for them. I have a World Hemi block in the garage and that thing is F'n heavy! It was really heavy before we bored 1/4" out of each cylinder, lol.
Your best option is gonna be finding someone w/ an older MP megablock they are selling.

I agree....The megablock would be a better choice

the production stock block in that Maxie was already a pretty thick wall(I used the best one I could find), and has a tall fill...While I never weighed it, in ready to assemble state, it was pretty heavy..Heavier than any 440 based build I have had through here..

Adding weight, especially over the nose, is never "good" but neither is a block that doesnt have wall integrity...

I think its working pretty good for what it is..Its never gonna be easy to compete with a Hemi headed motor with an antiquated, inline valve wedge headed offering..

Block idea is great, and maybe some effort to get it to hang in there a bit more up top...Thats where the race is won with the engines that have better head designs..No secret there...

Posted By: TT5 Valiant

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 05:27 PM

I have a 4.50 bore world cast iron block that I might sell. It's assembled now but would disassemble or sell the short block. All the finish machine work is done, the only thing it would need is a light hone. The only reason I might sell is to buy a aluminum block. PM me if you are interested.

Thanks

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 06:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.

Cept nobody said anything about MP blocks.

Last time we looked,MP stood for Mopar Performance a division of Chrysler Corp.factory engineered performance parts with Mopar logo,casting numbers and part numbers.We consider those blocks to be factory parts.We understand that they were not available in production built cars,but so was a lot of parts that could be bought across the counter just like any replacement blocks.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 07:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

There was never a factory crossbolt wedge block.

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.Lenny Davis has one of the last ones I had in the shop.

440-cross-bolt-P5249347
440-cross-bolt-long stroke clearence-P5249388

We still have one that needs repaired in the shop.

Bob that was in the 90's and I know of them, but did Chrysler put together max wedges in 1963 with crossbolt blocks?

Ed is racing in a class that required the engine to look stock on the outside, a crossbolt block would not look stock in a maxie, and until recently they didn't allow siamese bore blocks.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.

Cept nobody said anything about MP blocks.

Last time we looked,MP stood for Mopar Performance a division of Chrysler Corp.factory engineered performance parts with Mopar logo,casting numbers and part numbers.We consider those blocks to be factory parts.We understand that they were not available in production built cars,but so was a lot of parts that could be bought across the counter just like any replacement blocks.

It has nothing to do with an MP block and more to do with the class rules and Ed has said those were changed so it's now a moot point.

I was asking and answering his questions as I knew of how the rules were , I'm out of doing any F.A.S.T. class racing so I didn't know of the rule change.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/06/15 07:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Weight is my biggest problem! Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

Lee do you know how much weight you actually removed from your car? My car weighs 3360 and the 320 for the driver??? Basically a tank! Car and driver.

The World blocks are around 80-100 lbs. heavier than a stock block. For your car/class I'd think that'd be a big problem. Unless someone has a CNC lightening program for them. I have a World Hemi block in the garage and that thing is F'n heavy! It was really heavy before we bored 1/4" out of each cylinder, lol.
Your best option is gonna be finding someone w/ an older MP megablock they are selling.

I agree....The megablock would be a better choice

the production stock block in that Maxie was already a pretty thick wall(I used the best one I could find), and has a tall fill...While I never weighed it, in ready to assemble state, it was pretty heavy..Heavier than any 440 based build I have had through here..

Adding weight, especially over the nose, is never "good" but neither is a block that doesnt have wall integrity...

I think its working pretty good for what it is..Its never gonna be easy to compete with a Hemi headed motor with an antiquated, inline valve wedge headed offering..

Block idea is great, and maybe some effort to get it to hang in there a bit more up top...Thats where the race is won with the engines that have better head designs..No secret there...

MB

Mike what is failing on the block , cylinder intergrity or the main webbing?

If the block is ok to use maybe look for an MP 500" wedge shortblock ? Crossbolts and siamese bore , run a lightening program on it in the valley and that would help lose some of the extra weight ???

Posted By: Von

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 05:00 AM

So a MP aftermarket block is considered a factory part??

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 01:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

look in the big block for sale section. factory cross bolt wedge block.

There was never a factory crossbolt wedge block.

Cast iron siamesed 440 blocks were available from Chrysler in the mid 90s.Lenny Davis has one of the last ones I had in the shop.

440-cross-bolt-P5249347
440-cross-bolt-long stroke clearence-P5249388

We still have one that needs repaired in the shop.

Bob that was in the 90's and I know of them, but did Chrysler put together max wedges in 1963 with crossbolt blocks?

Ed is racing in a class that required the engine to look stock on the outside, a crossbolt block would not look stock in a maxie, and until recently they didn't allow siamese bore blocks.

There were no crossbolted blocks for the 63 max wedge,however in late 63,early 64 Chrysler Chrysler had a limited run of crossbolted blocks for NASCAR.Some found there way into a few noted drag racers hands.These were at the begining of the hemi release and had a large casting bulge that could be machined for the top 5 bolt holes of the wedge or 4 valley bolts of the hemi.A lot of the casting had to be machined off for pushrod clearence for the wedge.AS hemi production went into full swing this unique feature was eliminitated as was the max wedge production.After the success of the hemi and it being outlawed by NASCAR some enterprizing racers like the Pettys reconfigured the hemi block to accept the wedge heads.Some of these blocks still exist today.
In the 90s Chrysler produced a limited run of max wedge 426 blocks that were legal for NHRA but were only two bolt mains,P4529851

Posted By: B1duster

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 05:52 PM

There is a cross bolted factory wedge 63-64 block forsale either here or on forabodiesonly. I'll take a look, came across it yesterday

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 07:56 PM

Quote:

There is a cross bolted factory wedge 63-64 block forsale either here or on forabodiesonly. I'll take a look, came across it yesterday

Check it very carefully,if it is a real one it's rare as we understand only 50+- were produced.Make sure it's not a after cast custom setup like ProGram or other.We have only seen 2 or 3 and that was long ago.There are a few of the Petty conversions around.I had 6 and the last one was sold to Ron McCelland at Beaverdale Auto.

Posted By: mprhound

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 09:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There is a cross bolted factory wedge 63-64 block forsale either here or on forabodiesonly. I'll take a look, came across it yesterday

Check it very carefully,if it is a real one it's rare as we understand only 50+- were produced.Make sure it's not a after cast custom setup like ProGram or other.We have only seen 2 or 3 and that was long ago.There are a few of the Petty conversions around.I had 6 and the last one was sold to Ron McCelland at Beaverdale Auto.

I bought it here on moparts last week
I should have it back to my place in a couple of weeks to look it over
supposed to be unused
Can't wait to see it

See pics above in this thread

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/07/15 10:06 PM

Quote:

Does anyone now how much heavier the world block is over stock block?

I have weighed several new World blocks, hemi and wedges, they are both 100 lbs. heavier than a stock OEM passenger car 440 or hemi block. IHTHs

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Quality Cast Iron Wedge Block - 03/08/15 02:02 PM

Quote:

So a MP aftermarket block is considered a factory part??

Depends, in the beginning if the part did not add any advantage then it would be allowed.

Other than the blocks capable of being bored to 4.500 there wasn't any difference between a new block or an original block ... other than it was NEW ...

I know you are just