Moparts

BB versus SB

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:42 AM

Since this got started on another post,I thought "why not"
What are some of the reasons you guys run what you run?
Big block=almost unlimited cubic inch potential,easier to get higher flowing heads,etc.
Small block=more compact,easier to fit in smaller engine bays,lighter,etc.
By the way ,to Vic,I am nowhere near jumping ship on my big block. I've yet to see a good reason.
(how's that?)
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:46 AM

LOL, I see Don pulled your chain a little
I like my little small block but I have been building
a big block(trying) for a couple of years... just
to help keep the front end down
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:52 AM

Don't get me wrong,I really like Don.His car is really impressive to me.And Vic has been rattling my chain on the small block stuff for years.
Let the games begin!!!!!
Posted By: 383man

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:55 AM

Well for me it is real easy. One reason is my budget limits me to very mild builds so I wanted the extra torque of the bigblock for my 63 B-body. And I like the original type of look and we all know a smallblock dont look like a Max Wedge. Ron
Posted By: instigator

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:12 AM

Room for my cubic inch equalizers!
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:23 AM

There is NO replacement for DISPLACEMENT.

The bigger the better = the FASTER every time.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:23 AM

Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.

Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:25 AM

Quote:

Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.

Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.




BS.......that is why GOD invented the Sawsall and the Plasma cutter.



Posted By: blownEFI

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:27 AM

Quote:

Room for my cubic inch equalizers!



Big motors can have 'em too
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:31 AM

To cook Pork roast

pre-heat oven @ 400 degrees , when timer goes off
turn oven down to 275 and put roast in uncovered
season well ( I like natures seasoning made by Morton)

When heat gets down to 275 cover roast and cook it for about 25 minutes per lb when there is 1 hours 20 minutes left , toss on some equal sized potatoes and leave cover on, remove roaster and let sit for about 20 minutes , its perfect every time

side dish of favorite vegtable is your choice

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.

Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.




BS.......that is why GOD invented the Sawsall and the Plasma cutter.








My car gets driven year round, and I live in Seattle where it rains 260 days a year. When's the last time that trailer queen of yours got driven in the rain?
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:36 AM

Quote:

To cook Pork roast

pre-heat oven @ 400 degrees , when timer goes off
turn oven down to 275 and put roast in uncovered
season well ( I like natures seasoning made by Morton)

When heat gets down to 275 cover roast and cook it for about 25 minutes per lb when there is 1 hours 20 minutes left , toss on some equal sized potatoes and leave cover on, remove roaster and let sit for about 20 minutes , its perfect every time

side dish of favorite vegtable is your choice






What? lol
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.

Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.




BS.......that is why GOD invented the Sawsall and the Plasma cutter.








My car gets driven year round, and I live in Seattle where it rains 260 days a year. When's the last time that trailer queen of yours got driven in the rain?





To the last Mansfield Car show, just before the 470 let go!!! Ever drive a car with a SPOOL and Hoosier QTP's in the rain??
JUST in case ya think I'm bs'n ya.....swing out by and crawl under it. I haven't CLEANED it since!!
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:39 AM


weighs less than a small block
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:44 AM



LOT'S lighter and MORE CUBIC INCHES than a small block!!
Posted By: 572B1

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:05 AM

Did John Holmes have a small block.?
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:10 AM

Quote:

Did John Holmes have a small block.?






I don't believe he did.........
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:11 AM

As told to me , bigger the better the tighter the sweater
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:27 AM

You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....

The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.


and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:33 AM

Quote:

What are some of the reasons you guys run what you run?





Like most irrational, mentally unstable, small block Mopar guys, I don't have
any good reasons......and because of the traits previously stated, I don't
need any. How's that?

Seriously, I'm just a small block guy. I'd be an idiot to say
they are better in an all out race engine but, I just don't
have any intrest in big blocks. In fact, I wouldn't trade a
340 for five 440s but, that's just me.

I think it's the challenge.

Attached picture 4937079-05-113_jpg%20Vic.jpg
Posted By: 572B1

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:36 AM

Quote:

You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....

The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.


and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!





Look at his speedo guys.He has to do 75 mph in the rain so it feels like a big block.
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB *DELETED* - 01/10/09 05:41 AM

Post deleted by Eric
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:45 AM

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
Posted By: 572B1

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:46 AM

Quote:

WEEEEE !!!

12.40's thats zinging !!!!

We did that a very long time ago and much faster on much less tire

why did you single me out ? I only gave a recipe for a pork roast ?

Have fun with your friends , stay safe ..Youth goes by oh so fast ..


Big dad your the man.I havn't laughed that hard in a long time .I have tears in my eyes.

:
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

WEEEEE !!!

12.40's thats zinging !!!!

We did that a very long time ago and much faster on much less tire

why did you single me out ? I only gave a recipe for a pork roast ?

Have fun with your friends , stay safe ..Youth goes by oh so fast ..


Big dad your the man.I havn't laughed that hard in a long time .I have tears in my eyes.

:






Kids

Now you know why tigers eat their offspring




Tip your wait staff, I'll be back tomorrow !


Attached picture 4937102-beatadeadhorse.jpg
Posted By: 9 Sec Phill

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:01 AM

Quote:

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..



Unless your working on your girlfriend!
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..



Unless your working on your girlfriend!





Ahhh, no .. they prefer the big cubes !
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:07 AM

Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target

12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways.

Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...
Posted By: 9 Sec Phill

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..



Unless your working on your girlfriend!





Ahhh, no .. they prefer the big cubes !



They say big is best, but light is right! Im with the later....
Posted By: bigdad

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:56 AM

Quote:

Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target

12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways.

Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...





You have yourself a good time , trust me you are not the first group of goofs runnning some leg .

Posted By: Sport440

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 08:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target

12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways.

Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...





You have yourself a good time , trust me you are not the first group of goofs runnning some leg .

Been there and done that and rocked it as hard as you if not more ..You think you are the first guy to catch a stray .. Tigger please .
Just make it home in one piece brother







BigDad ,for being young pups they are funny and they are just having some fun. I like thier sense of humor . And yours as well

I like the phrase { Your old ,I'm young,] I'm beautiful, you scare children!

Ive seen your pics ,you scare me

For the record, I love both big block and small blocks. And I wont ever {scare children} but I will put a whooping on some young pups, at the track if need be
Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 01/10/09 08:20 AM

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:26 AM

Engines are like boxers.
The bigger they are............................
...............................................
The harder they hit!!
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:42 AM

Quote:

You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....

The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.


and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!






your best is a 12.43 ?

who ya gonna "beat up" on ?




Posted By: jb15

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 11:09 AM

2800#+sb=
nuthing like the sound of sweet R.P.Ms




9.19@143.3MPH,1.27 60's(no pwr. adders)

Attached picture 4937322-side1.jpg
Posted By: SCDaytona

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 12:06 PM

It's great after a run when you've just took out a BB Dragster or car and everyone comes looking to see what engine you are running. The look on thier faces when they see the small block! Priceless! Plus a high winding small block is so sweet!

Attached picture 4937354-Atcomed..JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 01:51 PM

Quote:



LOT'S lighter and MORE CUBIC INCHES than a small block!!





You do know that small blocks have alum blocks also,
which makes them liker than a alum BB
Posted By: moparniac

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 01:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....

The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.


and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!






your best is a 12.43 ?

who ya gonna "beat up" on ?









that small block sure does run cool though... check out the temps it puts out...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 02:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..



Unless your working on your girlfriend!




Especially if you are working on the girl friend...
Posted By: DaKuda

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 02:15 PM

Because without getting excotic with aluminum blocks NON of us can afford, with stock blocks the small block is MUCH stronger. I have seen countless BB Mopar blocks split like watermelons in the mains. SB's dont need girdle or even high dollar main caps for the average bracket racer.

Not to mention one of the FASTEST natural asp. cars on this site is a 412" IRON BLOCK SMALL BLOCK......SBDUSTER412 (or whatever it is). Backhalfed car nothing excotic.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 02:21 PM

12.43??? There was a guy with a Dodge pickup with ladder rack, tool boxes and ladder on the rack at the Mopar Nats a couple years ago that was in the 11's...

Attached picture 4937463-coronet007.jpg
Posted By: Dragula

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 02:25 PM

I'll bite....

Small block has no easily usable aftermarket aluminum block, yet costs only a little less to build than a hemi...Hence, I built a hemi.

Not to mention, the hemi adds value to the car. And talk about high winding...Shift a hemi up at 8400rpm, and tell me about your small block again.

http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/pp357...emiMov00451.flv
Posted By: Kindafast

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:37 PM

My being a poorboy and not being able to buy the high dollar cranks,blocks and such I found myself blowing the bottom ends out of many big blocks. Small blocks seem to turn up pretty good and stay together. Maybe not make as much power but I can play another day .
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 03:39 PM

Quote:

12.43??? There was a guy with a Dodge pickup with ladder rack, tool boxes and ladder on the rack at the Mopar Nats a couple years ago that was in the 11's...



HMMMMM,My mini motorhome has a 360 with a mild cam,headers,etc.
Maybe I should race it in our street class.I wouldn't have to worry about spinning the tires off the line..............
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..



Unless your working on your girlfriend!





Ahhh, no .. they prefer the big cubes !





my wife loves BIG CUBIC INCHES...499 to be exact..

aint no small block in her life...


Posted By: runya

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 04:51 PM

Kind of best of both worlds, stroker small block...big but small

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:26 PM

I have a street car that sees the track every here and there. ive always liked the rpms of a small block. I also do more than just go straight. I like to corner well as well.

But for balls to the wall all out race, big block is king.

But still, its fun to beat a big block with a small block.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 05:51 PM

Just looked up on Racing Junk all the mopar engines for sale, and a mild hemi IS cheaper than a after market blocked small block. It just seems, dollar for dollar, anything over 600hp, and the price difference is neglegable. And the BB wedge engines are cheaper than both.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:10 PM

You guys sure got some jokes, I'd willingly line up next to any of you in a bracket race. Then we shall see who laughs at the 12 second car then.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 06:42 PM

Quote:

You guys sure got some jokes, I'd willingly line up next to any of you in a bracket race. Then we shall see who laughs at the 12 second car then.



Ow,everyone's just having fun.
My wife was second in points her first year of racing with a 12 second small block.
Now it is stroked to 421 inches and makes more tourqe than my 440.Maybe the best answer is a small block that thinks it is a big block!
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:16 PM

Hi everybody
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:17 PM

Quote:

Hi everybody




Its about time I got some back up from you small block folk ....
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:25 PM

Don,we don't don't need trouble from you!
Posted By: Dago Red

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:36 PM

I started racing a dirt car that the rules specified 368 cubes or less, ssssooooo small block it was. But.....just to satisfy my curiousity I've also got big blocks and a slant six to boot.

Besides as a very "friendly" lady once told me as a young man, "It's not the size of the wand, but the magic you make with it."
Posted By: RonP

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:40 PM

Wow, we still have these threads
I say to each their own. I know why I am running what I do and thats all that matters. The other thing is what exactly defines small and big? just based off of what it started life is because it seems like more and more "small" block guys are running strokers to make more cubic inch

Its all good because what would winter be without the BB VS SB thread.
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:53 PM

I believe I have the best reason for building a small block!

I built my 408 small block before the 440 stuff got cheap. There were no edelbrock heads and no 440source when I built it. Would of cost a fortune back then to build a 440. So now that I have a 408, I can't complain. It's a 10 second pump gas motor through the mufflers, power steering, brakes and it was my daily driver for several months.
Nowadays I think it would be better to build a big block for the price.
Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 07:59 PM

Quote:

I believe I have the best reason for building a small block!

I built my 408 small block before the 440 stuff got cheap. There were no edelbrock heads and no 440source when I built it. Would of cost a fortune back then to build a 440. So now that I have a 408, I can't complain. It's a 10 second pump gas motor through the mufflers, power steering, brakes and it was my daily driver for several months.
Nowadays I think it would be better to build a big block for the price.



or a big block with boost!
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:05 PM

Is there any Ford or Chevy small blocks that can beat a mopar SB with P5 heads? If not, then i say a SB is best!

Mopars are at a disadvantage when it comes to big block power, both in cubic inches and head flow. So, would'nt it be easier to compete with a small block?
Posted By: dthemi

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:30 PM

Normally aspirated BB Hemi on factory bore spacing, deck height, and PUMP E85. I still think 1300+ is there with more cam timing, and some more cam. Where small blocks just can't go LOL. Not even the best pull, just what I have with me now.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:40 PM

Darren,
I thought us Washington folk were supposed to stick together!
Posted By: dthemi

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 09:54 PM

What,,,, we are! Were suppose to help each other see the light,,,right?
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 10:02 PM

That cuda have a passenger seat? I'm ready when you are ..... show me the ways of the force

On a side note Darren, Supposedly the first test and tune of the year at Pacific Raceways will be the 7th and 8th of February. They haven't posted the schedule, but that is the rumor floating around.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 10:39 PM

Yeah, it's got a seat.

Isn't it still raining in Feb? If they have one I'll go!
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 10:41 PM

It always rains, just gotta hope its dry on race day. Keep an eye on the forecast when it gets closer and hope for the best.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: BB versus SB - 01/10/09 10:45 PM

Will do man, I love it here, makes me wish I'd moved years ago, and i can't wait to meet all you guys.
Posted By: 300by500

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 02:15 AM

Quote:


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!




If it'll run EIGHT SECONDS with a small block, I'm sure SKR8PN would ! But how likely is that?

Small blocks are easier to use in a milder-performance build. They're cheaper, plentiful, and leave more room under the hood. If that's what you are after, there is nothing wrong with them...but I doubt that the SS/A or Pro Stock guys will be trying to compete using one.

All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.

However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:

Posted By: Sport440

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 02:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:




All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.

However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:










Posted By: 300by500

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 02:22 AM

Quote:

12.43??? There was a guy with a Dodge pickup with ladder rack, tool boxes and ladder on the rack at the Mopar Nats a couple years ago that was in the 11's...




Had nitrous bottles in the tool box, that truck was cool!
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 02:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!




If it'll run EIGHT SECONDS with a small block, I'm sure SKR8PN would ! But how likely is that?

Small blocks are easier to use in a milder-performance build. They're cheaper, plentiful, and leave more room under the hood. If that's what you are after, there is nothing wrong with them...but I doubt that the SS/A or Pro Stock guys will be trying to compete using one.

All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.

However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:








ROTFLMAO!!!
Brion I owe you a for that one!!
Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 02:05 PM

Quote:



Besides as a very "friendly" lady once told me as a young man, "It's not the size of the wand, but the magic you make with it."






"it is not the size of the ship, but how you park it in the harbor"
Posted By: Defbob

Re: BB versus SB - 01/12/09 11:35 PM

You can't make a 572ci small block
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: BB versus SB - 01/14/10 08:47 PM

Here you go Craig.
Posted By: JD Dart

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 02:14 AM

I'll watch you T&T your SB my BB will wait for warmer track temps.
Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 04:32 AM

ive always had a small block, i cant tune worth a darn, nor have the time to really see what this motor can do, stroked smallblock with eddy heads, oh btw read the sig

Attached picture 5736011-scampleap940x620.jpg
Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 04:34 AM

It's kinda like, which tool is best for the job. I mean, if you're trying to install something a little "delicate" and the right tool for the job is a dead blow hammer, somewhat on the small side, but you have a 16 lb sledge, which one do you use?
That's why my challenger has a small block and my 4x4 pickup has a big block. Course everyone's entitled to their opinion. Next topic should be: Import cars... Do the fart cans really make you run 10 seconds flat?
Posted By: mike s

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 06:13 AM

Quote:

You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....

The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.


and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.


I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!




Silly wabbits Small blocks are for small frys.

Nice of Mom to give you kids a ride to school in that nasty weather.
Posted By: Bakaruda432

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 03:13 PM

Would be interesting to see a Procharged BB Vs SB shootout.

Small Block R-3 block .060 over 340 bore size + 4.1 inch crank (433 CID) with Indy W-2 heads & single plane intake.

Big Block .030 over 383 + 3.75 crank with 440 Source Heads & single plane intake (432 CID).

Posted By: BobR

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 05:54 PM

Quote:

There is NO replacement for DISPLACEMENT.

The bigger the better = the FASTER every time.




Depends on weight breaks, if any, and a few other things. In our class(Outlaw 10.5) we race a Procharged SB. There are cars in our class with N/A 920 CI motors and others with 5 stages and almost 900 cubes. We have the ET record. A twin turbo BB has the speed record.
Posted By: ademon

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 06:38 PM

wouldn't it be boring if everyone ran 500 + " BB's? Hope this doesn't turn into the gay Harley guys who look down on sportster's / import bikes ect..
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 07:22 PM

Quote:

Would be interesting to see a Procharged BB Vs SB shootout.

Small Block R-3 block .060 over 340 bore size + 4.1 inch crank (433 CID) with Indy W-2 heads & single plane intake.

Big Block .030 over 383 + 3.75 crank with 440 Source Heads & single plane intake (432 CID).






Lets break this down: You want to compare an after market R3 block to a stock 383.

Small block after market stroker crank to a stock stroke 383.

W-2 heads one of the better after market heads when ported right. To an entry level lowest priced,lowest flowing 440source head.


dollar for dollar.

cubic inch wins.
small blocks are nice but to race with the big dogs figure on spending about 1/3 to 1/2 more money.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: BB versus SB - 01/15/10 10:39 PM

You cannot deny that the small block is inherently a more efficient engine...the LA heads were designed several years later and feature angled Plugs, a better valve angle and valve centers that open on the bore centers. It also features a raised cam which allows for large strokes and reduced cam oil windage. The port cross section of a 340 is roughly only 12% smaller than that of a 440, a motor that is 25% larger.

It's "weaknesses" are few, the 4 bolt per cylinder head clamping and it's akward 59 degree lifter angle causes the pushrod to move in an arc so it's inherently less stable at high RPM.

That said, in terms of efficiency, if you pick any reasonable horsepower per cubic inch criteria up to about 1.35hp/cube the smallblock typically wins hands down, ex: it's easier to produce 340 hp from a 340 than it is to make 383hp from a 383.

When we move to the stroker realm and we include AFFORDABLE upgraded LARGE PORT heads, the Big Block (by virtue of the early Ramchargers skunk works developing the Max wedge) the big block clearly pulls away. The small block Mopar is years if not DECADES behind the Chevy and Ford market (both have heads in the 380-400cfm range) in terms of affordable bolt-on race ready heads, the magnum opens up the geometry by getting away from the rocker shaft, the POTENTIAL is there but it is still untapped.

my i don't really like small block Stroker RACE motors, for any reasonable money investment there is a diminishing Hp/cube return once you get up around 390 or so cubes, when the piston speed goes up and the rod ratio goes down you really need a surplus of port....Fords with the multitude of Windsor/cleveland and especially the CHI Hybrid heads have the advantage above this CID range...And even still I prefer to build all my small (stock)block strokers as moderate RPM torque motors, basically lightweight replacements for OEM big blocks which is the task they fill the best and most economically. PISTON speed and ring drag go up astronomically above the torque peak and this acts like a brake as far as the flywheel is concerned, that's why (and as I tried to explain in another post) even though the HP goes up past the torque peak, the RATE OF ACCELERATION of the crank begins at that point to slow. Keeping the torque peak in the big fat middle and keeping the peak HP RPM in the moderate piston speed range is really the most EFFICIENT (in terms of longevity and heat) use of a smallblock (or bigblock) stroker, just gear and cam accordingly. A 3.79" motor with the same heads and valvetrain that can support the higher RPM required can typically make right at the same power as a 4 incher....less piston speed = less frictional HP drag, there's a reason 500" Pro Stokers run huge bores and short strokes and can make nearly as much power as the 800" IHRA motors...

All out race blocks and W9 heads are really in another $$$ league, the power is there...but the HP per $$ spent really goes up tremendously.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 12:37 AM

Quote:

wouldn't it be boring if everyone ran 500 + " BB's? Hope this doesn't turn into the gay Harley guys who look down on sportster's / import bikes ect..




Hahaha I love it when a big twin hog pulls up next to me on my little R6 and tries to intimidate....and I can't see him in my mirrors anymore in about 15sec. They just have no clue.
Posted By: 67HEMI

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 12:55 AM

2 examples of why to run big blocks would be #1 SS/AH times of 8.20's with a car over 3100 pounds #2 Pro Stock times of mid 6's, both without power adders.
The reason I like big block power is the distributor is easier to get to
Posted By: SCDaytona

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 02:12 PM

Funny in SS/AM, Scott Gove went 7.97 @ 2800 lbs with a 358" small block in 2006. Back in the Pro Stock truck era, they were going 7.30's back in 2001. Imagine where they would be today had the class continued.
Posted By: sturmenater

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 03:31 PM

Quote:


The reason I like big block power is the distributor is easier to get to




thats especialy nice if you have a big belly like mine
plus there just cheaper to get decent power out of. and torque on demand
Posted By: Bakaruda432

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 04:06 PM

I saw a Swinger in one of those Mopar mags +.030 over 340 w/ stock stroke with a Turbo & a single 4-Barrel carb, owner thought it made 650 HP.

Wonder what a Cummings Turbo on a 432 ( stroker 383) would do.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 04:09 PM

I like them both. I was a 340 guy my whole life until 9 years ago when I tried my first mild big block and went 1.5 seconds quicker than I'd ever gone, and it was cheap! I've only owned 2 big blocks, both were dirt cheap due to finding good deals and both went 9.80's at 136 MPH in street trim. So my reason for a big block is cost, I'd have 3 times the money in a small block to run these numbers with pump gas or a light mix of race gas.
And I will admit that it sucks working on a big block a-body. A big dollar stroker small block could run the same numbers or better and be easy to work on.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 04:22 PM

Bob, I thought you were always a BB guy.
Maybe, we will get you back some day.
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 04:34 PM

Quote:

I like them both. I was a 340 guy my whole life until 9 years ago when I tried my first mild big block and went 1.5 seconds quicker than I'd ever gone, and it was cheap! I've only owned 2 big blocks, both were dirt cheap due to finding good deals and both went 9.80's at 136 MPH in street trim. So my reason for a big block is cost, I'd have 3 times the money in a small block to run these numbers with pump gas or a light mix of race gas.
And I will admit that it sucks working on a big block a-body. A big dollar stroker small block could run the same numbers or better and be easy to work on.


I have a 73 dart sport pump gas 408 which I don't really beleive is a high buck car. My car went 9.87 136 the first time out on a mix of 93 & 100. I have a few friends with big block strokers,some with more money invested in them than mine that hav'nt been out of the 10s yet. I drive my car on the street,none of them do. Not knocking big blocks, I like all Mopars,Just my experience.
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 05:48 PM

Quote:


BigDad ,for being young pups they are funny and they are just having some fun. I like thier sense of humor . And yours as well

I like the phrase { Your old ,I'm young,] I'm beautiful, you scare children!





Thank God someone was given the license to have fun around here. And kudos to Sport for pointing it out.
Posted By: emarine01

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 07:01 PM

My little W5 rig thinks its a big block and I am tired of arguing with it
Posted By: ProSport

Re: BB versus SB - 01/16/10 08:46 PM

Quote:

I have a 73 dart sport pump gas 408 which I don't really beleive is a high buck car. My car went 9.87 136 the first time out on a mix of 93 & 100. I have a few friends with big block strokers,some with more money invested in them than mine that hav'nt been out of the 10s yet. I drive my car on the street,none of them do. Not knocking big blocks, I like all Mopars,Just my experience.





What does your car weigh? Can you give us a rundown of your combo? Very impressive!
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: BB versus SB - 01/17/10 01:08 AM

The car weighs 3100# Resto block,callies 4" crank,h beams,JE flatops,zero deck 11.4 CR. It has an off the shelf crane solid roller 260/266 @.50 .420 lobe,1.6 T&d rockers. Indy 360-2s 230 cc which I got from Jack Moore for $1875,BG racing set up the heads & valve job. Indy intake which I gasket matched & ported myself,4150 1050 race demon. The car has cal-traks, cut down Truck dana with spool & strange axles (4.56),904 built by Bob George, 8" A-1 5200 stall converter. I bought the car for $4,000 rolling with an 8 pt roll bar,digital 6 & all gauges and I did do a lot of waiting & scrounging for parts. I know I don't have more than $13,500 in the whole car. Its not the nicest car (Its no where as nice as your car Bob) but its not bad,and it sure suprised me with how fast it is. I think most of the guys on this board could duplicate it easily.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: BB versus SB - 01/17/10 06:24 AM

That sounds like a great combo and very quick!

I raced my dad's 71' 340 Roadrunner for years and then I ran my high 11 second 340 Scamp for 11 years.

Attached picture 5740567-2008092300.jpg
Posted By: DakFink

Re: BB versus SB - 01/17/10 10:01 AM

I went Small Block with Twin Turbos for many reasons. Most of them more a personal preference when I started the build.

Mostly was familiarity and personel knowledge base.

I looked at BB and even talked to several shops that told me they could build me a BB for about 1/2 what it would take to built a SB with the same HP and do it on Pump gas.

One question I always had was can you keep it below 9:1 compression so I can use turbos. Most said no or be very hard (we're talking 550-600+ cui).

I also got to looking at the rules and all classed that allow Turbos give the Small Block guys a weight break. Not sure if I'll be able to use it in the vehicle I have chosen.

Another reason was that I'm using a '99 ClubCab Dakota and those things are Porkly 4000-4400 in stock trim. Try to get the weight down as much as possible especially in the front end.

And as always. My project got way out of control as a streetable week-end terror to a full on cage/chassis 25.5 racer.

I'm going to put the SB together run it a while and look at maybe going the same route in a BB later on.
Posted By: Leon441

Re: BB versus SB - 01/17/10 03:10 PM

This arguement never has any substance. It is mostly people who build engines over the telephone that talk about the cost comparison.

I had an ole truck blew the 360 up. Put an equal 440 in it used the same thermoquad carb. Yes, the BB was king but the truck weight 5,300#.

I raced what every looser wanted to say was a high dollar small block in KOS. I had less money in my engine than any big block racer in KOS. There was only one Big Block in KOS I didn't beat in KOS with this engine. Mike Robbins he had the same displacement in a BB. He treed me both times and the margin of victory was in the thousandts. I later broke his record after he sold his car. I have a large respect for their combo and their driving and tuning capabilities.

I run a shorter stroke engine now that unfortuneately the cost ran a little higher but still less than most BB's built with the same intent. IMO it runs pretty sorry. But, I out MPH the big blocks in the same realm of competition. A NA SB spinner is harder to find the right combo on converter and gear ratio to make the car work and right now I am in left feild.

Alluminum blocks can be bought for SB and they have many more advantages than the ones offered for BB's. Last time I checked the price was within a few $100. I wouldn't have one as I don't feel I can give up the strength in the bores and sacrifice HP. With a BB I would defineately run an alluminum block. Need to make up for the extra 200# somewhere. But, A big block would be my choice in a no penalty for displacement class.

You see no small blocks in the SSAA classes because the heads you would need to run are illegal. I think Hemis are king and should be in that class.

I like small blocks in my car. Of course a 655" predator headed engine would be fine too.

It just depends on what you are doing and what the rules are.

And the price arguement fails. A year ago you could by used P7R5 engines with all the latest trick parts very cheap. Before that you could by a W9 R3 craftsman truck engine as cheap as $5,000. Give Indy a call and see how far you would get with that money building a BB and then watch that small block wear you out.

Again I am not wanting to take sides and if you like running your BB Mopar great. If the small block is your choice that kool to. But, This daily BS arguement about money. The reason your phone call tells you a small block cost to much is because you are talking to a crook that wants to screw you over. If these guys would work a volume approach like many of the successfull BB mopar engine builders the results would be a lot different.

Leon
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