carbs and the season.

Posted By: bonefish

carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 02:32 PM

I finally got my 1050 dom running perfect this summer,but now that winter is here and the air has changed it seems to be running pig rich(according to my afr guage).is that a coincidence or am I having carb or tune problems?this a street mostly car but does get to the strip at every chance.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 06:24 PM

well you should have the exact opposite problem now that the air is better. learn to give the motor what it wants and don't rely totally on your afr. if it still sounds and runs good don't worry about it. thats my opinion.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 06:30 PM

That`s backwards as stated. What`s the idle, cruise and wfo #`s. What`s the bleed layout?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 06:32 PM

Quote:

well you should have the exact opposite problem now that the air is better. learn to give the motor what it wants and don't rely totally on your afr. if it still sounds and runs good don't worry about it. thats my opinion.

What Tony said... in the cool weather the carb tends
to lean out due to the temps... so for yours to
be going fat is strange or your getting a bogus AFR
reading... as said.. what does the engine tell you
and the plugs

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 07:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

well you should have the exact opposite problem now that the air is better. learn to give the motor what it wants and don't rely totally on your afr. if it still sounds and runs good don't worry about it. thats my opinion.

What Tony said... in the cool weather the carb tends
to lean out due to the temps... so for yours to
be going fat is strange or your getting a bogus AFR
reading... as said.. what does the engine tell you
and the plugs

I agree should be the opposite of what it is.its hard to get a reading on the plugs with in town driving.i guess ill just keep drivin it and see if the plugs foul out.it seems to run fine and I don't smell gas in the exaust.just seems weird that my cruise went from low 14,s to low twelves,assuming that this guage and sensor is working.plus it wants to run on a couple of licks every time I shut it off.

Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 07:59 PM

Running on is hell on a motor. Maybe shut it down in gear to stop it as a bandaid.

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:04 PM

Quote:

Running on is hell on a motor. Maybe shut it down in gear to stop it as a bandaid.

it don't sound good that's for sure.its not like its diesiling it just cough,s thru the card a couple of licks like theres to much gas in the cylenders.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

well you should have the exact opposite problem now that the air is better. learn to give the motor what it wants and don't rely totally on your afr. if it still sounds and runs good don't worry about it. thats my opinion.

What Tony said... in the cool weather the carb tends
to lean out due to the temps... so for yours to
be going fat is strange or your getting a bogus AFR
reading... as said.. what does the engine tell you
and the plugs

I agree should be the opposite of what it is.its hard to get a reading on the plugs with in town driving.i guess ill just keep drivin it and see if the plugs foul out.it seems to run fine and I don't smell gas in the exaust.just seems weird that my cruise went from low 14,s to low twelves,assuming that this guage and sensor is working.plus it wants to run on a couple of licks every time I shut it off.

Run on is a sign of being fat on the idle.. assuming
that the engine isnt still decelling.. but if your
at idle for a few seconds then its fat

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Running on is hell on a motor. Maybe shut it down in gear to stop it as a bandaid.

it don't sound good that's for sure.its not like its diesiling it just cough,s thru the card a couple of licks like theres to much gas in the cylenders.

Float level maybe too high?

Bleeds.............idle and hi speed.............what r they.

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:15 PM

Not saying this "is" the case but I have found when something changes for no apparent reason like your describing I tend to look for a partially blocked air bleed first. Then dig into the carb making sure the power valve (s) and or block off's are tight.

Gaskets can and will cause the same issues your describing. Metering block gaskets can cross feed circuits and power valve gaskets can take a set causing torque loss adding unwanted fuel to the power enrichment circuit.

If you need new gaskets just ask around here on the board who has the best

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Running on is hell on a motor. Maybe shut it down in gear to stop it as a bandaid.

it don't sound good that's for sure.its not like its diesiling it just cough,s thru the card a couple of licks like theres to much gas in the cylenders.

Float level maybe too high? Bleeds.............idle and hi speed.............what r they.

ive had the float level up and down.dont know the bleed sizes of hand but I havnt changed anything. it seems like there may be an internal leak some where but everything seems ok in the carb.im gunna take it off and readjust everything on the bench and start over with my adjustments and see what happens.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:38 PM

Post pics cos I`m sure we can help ya easier plus I`d like to see the body,idle hi speed bleeds and blocks(both sides)to see what`s up w/the tune also..........

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:48 PM

Quote:

Post pics cos I`m sure we can help ya easier plus I`d like to see the body,idle hi speed bleeds and blocks(both sides)to see what`s up w/the tune also..........

ill see if I can take some pics for ya.Jesse built this carb for me.he converted my 8896 to a two circuit and all I had to do was adjust my idle a little bit and it was perfect.ive been runnin for 1,200 miles then suddenly something changed.

Posted By: Mark Whitener

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 08:56 PM

Make sure you don't have a float that is soaking fuel. Pull off the bowls and use a caliper to adjust float level, with the bowl upside down try .425 between the top of the float and bowl. See if you can set the idle speed a little lower, and try turning the idle mixture screws out an 1/8 to 1/4 turn. If it's lean the cylinders may be getting a tad hotter, making hot spots to have the engine run on after the ignition is off.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 09:16 PM

I`d be curious to see if/how your idling on the t-slots and as Greg stated, the bleeds can/will get dirty and throw the idle off.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 11:21 PM

you need to make sure your timing is right before you go changing the carb settings

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 11:34 PM

He said he changed nothing but it doesn`t hurt to check..........

Posted By: rickraw

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 11:50 PM

Check the terminals inside the cap & rotor too.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/09/14 11:55 PM

First thing I would try is pull the carb, blast the heck out of the air bleeds venturies... with a big can of carb cleaner, re-install and see if that helps. I have seen where "these bleeds" get a light coat of build up dried fuel additive and a slight restriction that richens it up.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 01:35 AM

Quote:

Not saying this "is" the case but I have found when something changes for no apparent reason like your describing I tend to look for a partially blocked air bleed first. Then dig into the carb making sure the power valve (s) and or block off's are tight.

Gaskets can and will cause the same issues your describing. Metering block gaskets can cross feed circuits and power valve gaskets can take a set causing torque loss adding unwanted fuel to the power enrichment circuit.

If you need new gaskets just ask around here on the board who has the best

I'm with Greg on this. Shoot some carb cleaner in the air bleeds and adjust the idle screws.

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 02:11 AM

I checked the timming and the dist.still no change that's actually the second thing I did after diassembling the carb and blowin out all the passages.this time ill take the air screws out and use brake cleaner not just air pressure.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 02:14 AM

Street driving,,over rich condition,,,= deposits on spark plugs that will stay hot/red hot/glow and ignite excessive fuel and cause 'run-on'. Maybe time for new/clean plugs.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 03:24 AM

I spotted the problem, the ole sv1/toilet bowl if thats what you call them.

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 03:39 AM

cold air temps, cold manifold/carb = poor atomization. raw fuel. bring the engine up to temp, shut the engine off, throw a towel over the carb/intake and let it heat soak a little.

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 03:42 AM

heres a question for the carb guys.if I spray brake cleaner into the iab its pluged,all 4.so I looked at the block and the gasket has no hole for that circuit.its open without the gasket.the circuit for the air screw is open and functions.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 03:56 AM

Quote:

heres a question for the carb guys.if I spray brake cleaner into the iab its pluged,all 4.so I looked at the block and the gasket has no hole for that circuit.its open without the gasket.the circuit for the air screw is open and functions.

When you tore the carb down before, did you put new
gaskets on it or did you just use them over... if you
used them over COULD you have them flipped over.. I
dont know anything about those SV-1s

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 04:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

heres a question for the carb guys.if I spray brake cleaner into the iab its pluged,all 4.so I looked at the block and the gasket has no hole for that circuit.its open without the gasket.the circuit for the air screw is open and functions.

When you tore the carb down before, did you put new
gaskets on it or did you just use them over... if you
used them over COULD you have them flipped over.. I
dont know anything about those SV-1s

its not a SV-1 its a 1050 dominater.the mertering block has dowels that are off set,the gasket can only go on one way.these are the same ones that have been on the carb all along.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 04:10 AM

its not a SV-1 its a 1050 dominater.the mertering block has dowels that are off set,the gasket can only go on one way.these are the same ones that have been on the carb all along.

I didnt see the pic... I thought thats what Tony said

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 04:15 AM

Quote:

its not a SV-1 its a 1050 dominater.the mertering block has dowels that are off set,the gasket can only go on one way.these are the same ones that have been on the carb all along.

I didnt see the pic... I thought thats what Tony said

I think Tony is up past his bed time.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 04:16 AM

Quote:

its not a SV-1 its a 1050 dominater.the mertering block has dowels that are off set,the gasket can only go on one way.these are the same ones that have been on the carb all along.

I didnt see the pic... I thought thats what Tony said

PICS.................

Posted By: Mark Whitener

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 04:32 AM

Quote:

I finally got my 1050 dom running perfect this summer,but now that winter is here and the air has changed it seems to be running pig rich(according to my afr guage).is that a coincidence or am I having carb or tune problems?this a street mostly car but does get to the strip at every chance.

If it's a 2 circuit the outer hole is not used, middle bleed is your idle bleed.

Posted By: BIGS

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 08:40 PM

Al.....Like Mark said......Inner/middle bleed is now your idle bleed....outside bleed is now another spare idle bleed we have in place.....If ya cant get it we will be happy to take a look at it and get it back where it belongs....Jesse

Posted By: Mattax

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/10/14 09:08 PM

Quote:

Street driving,,over rich condition,,,= deposits on spark plugs that will stay hot/red hot/glow and ignite excessive fuel and cause 'run-on'. Maybe time for new/clean plugs.

It just happens I was looking at some old notes from the ex-Innovate forum and there had been a discussion about the opposite situation - lean run on. I'll share here in case anyone is interested. My own experience has been no run on with carbon fouled plugs. Just my experience, not saying it couldn't be.

Q. "Hi Shrinker. I find it interesting you note running a lean idle as a cause of deiseling. Can you elaborate please?"
A. "When its lean the flame speed is slow and not completed by EVO time. Once the valve opens the air volume that has to be exhausted at idle is very small and the pressure quickly drops to near zero so the reaction rate drops considerably. Once the reaction is slowed some molecules cease combustion part way through their cycle, that is they dont combust to completion but they remain in the cylinder trapped in the various places etc. They are then hot molecules and they are of a different chemistry. They are called free radicals. They are very detonation prone and they are hot from the previous burn so they detonate erratically, thats why the engines combust erratically when they Run on (or diesel) when you switch the ignition off. Their combustion on the next time around in the cylinder sets off the main charge.

Richen up the engine and set the timing to 18 for hot cams and running on goes away. BUT you have to enrich the engine correctly not just whack a big jet it, you have to have enough T-slot exposure to exhaust the volume of fuel with the air volume thats coming through the carby circuits as well, otherwise the fuel just blobs into the engine. Blobs makes some cylinders get the fuel and others miss out and then you also get lean spots in the chamber even though you have it set rich. Its about the homogenization not just the total volume of fuel."
...
"When large cams are used the time period of Overlap where both intake and exhaust valves are open is significant, shut down the blades at the carby and the engine draws air across the overlap phase into the inlet manifold, especially when its lean because then there is oxygen left over on the exhausting cylinder anyway. So now the engine draws in exhaust gases, hot oxygen, free radicals, and blobs of fuel from the carby. Great recipe that one. Richen it up [enough] so there is no oxygen and create a burn that blows down the cylinder rather than relying on piston pump and you stop the muck."
posted by Shrinker 11-01-2010, 08:00 PM Innovate Motorsports ex-forum

Posted By: Crizila

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/11/14 05:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

well you should have the exact opposite problem now that the air is better. learn to give the motor what it wants and don't rely totally on your afr. if it still sounds and runs good don't worry about it. thats my opinion.

What Tony said... in the cool weather the carb tends
to lean out due to the temps... so for yours to
be going fat is strange or your getting a bogus AFR
reading... as said.. what does the engine tell you
and the plugs

I agree should be the opposite of what it is.its hard to get a reading on the plugs with in town driving.i guess ill just keep drivin it and see if the plugs foul out.it seems to run fine and I don't smell gas in the exaust.just seems weird that my cruise went from low 14,s to low twelves,assuming that this guage and sensor is working.plus it wants to run on a couple of licks every time I shut it off.

Did you check the grounds on your Inovate and recalibrate it?

Posted By: bonefish

Re: carbs and the season. - 12/11/14 09:47 PM

ive been thru this carb several times,i don't think its a carb issue.im going to put some fresh plugs in it and go from there with some of the suggestions.i,ll let ya know what happens.