Moparts
cummins engine tech
Posted By: Quicktree
cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:14 PM
we are standed up in the mountains in gatlinburg tennessee. not getting fuel i am guessing or hoping it's a lift pump or pre filter. anyone from here? know a good diesel shop? or any ideas?
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:21 PM
Sometimes the wire to the fuel shutoff comes loose.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:22 PM
Quote:
we are standed up in the mountains in gatlinburg tennessee. not getting fuel i am guessing or hoping it's a lift pump or pre filter. anyone from here? know a good diesel shop? or any ideas?
Pull the line and if it's not getting any fuel get a good electric pump and bypass the stock pump.Get fuel to the injector pump and get on the road.We and others have had similar issues and in a pinch pulled our electric pumps of our race car and got back on the road. 
Posted By: DragDart360
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:25 PM
What year truck?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:31 PM
it's 97 monaco motor home with a cummins 8.3. i don't have enough tools to do anything
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 08:32 PM
Quote:
Sometimes the wire to the fuel shutoff comes loose.
where is that at
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 09:32 PM
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 11/30/14 11:03 PM
Can be the relay on the fuel shut off valve or the
fuse going to the relay... see if the shut off is
opening up when you turn the ignition on... if not
a tie rap around the shut off arm will work
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 01:54 AM
What he said. A 97 8.3 would most likely be a p pump engine. They have a fuel solenoid with two windings. One winding is a high amperage "pull" winding. The other is a low amperage "hold" winding. When you engage the starter, the pull winding is energized, moving the lever on the pump. When you let off of the starter the hold winding takes over. The "pull" side of the solenoid melts every once in a while. Just zip tie the lever and you should be fine. A lot of times you can just hold the lever open by hand while starting, and the hold winding will do it's job. No tools needed. The solenoid and lever are all external.
Posted By: Jerry Kathe
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 02:08 AM
That sucks, I just left there yesterday afternoon. Look at what TRENZ said, that would be my suspicion also. I have also seen relays and the fusible links fail in those systems.
Posted By: Dabee
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 05:04 AM
You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:03 AM
Quote:
You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
yea we are still here, i sent you a pm.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:07 AM
Quote:
What he said. A 97 8.3 would most likely be a p pump engine. They have a fuel solenoid with two windings. One winding is a high amperage "pull" winding. The other is a low amperage "hold" winding. When you engage the starter, the pull winding is energized, moving the lever on the pump. When you let off of the starter the hold winding takes over. The "pull" side of the solenoid melts every once in a while. Just zip tie the lever and you should be fine. A lot of times you can just hold the lever open by hand while starting, and the hold winding will do it's job. No tools needed. The solenoid and lever are all external.
is this located on the injector pump?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:09 AM
What have you found out so far
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
What he said. A 97 8.3 would most likely be a p pump engine. They have a fuel solenoid with two windings. One winding is a high amperage "pull" winding. The other is a low amperage "hold" winding. When you engage the starter, the pull winding is energized, moving the lever on the pump. When you let off of the starter the hold winding takes over. The "pull" side of the solenoid melts every once in a while. Just zip tie the lever and you should be fine. A lot of times you can just hold the lever open by hand while starting, and the hold winding will do it's job. No tools needed. The solenoid and lever are all external.
is this located on the injector pump?
Yes... you will see a arm with a linkage to a solenoid
that pulls it open.. should be on the rear of the
pump area
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:13 AM
Quote:
What have you found out so far
not a dam thing, other than the guy that came out last night din't have a clue. he messed with a filter for 2 hours and never checked any of the things you guys mentioned. it looks like a low pressure issue just from what you guys are saying but i really know very little about these things other than changing a lift pump on my dually once. it's also very heard to get under this thing. i'l open up the enging compartment in the morning and look better.
Posted By: mopar65
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:49 AM
Quote:
Quote:
What have you found out so far
not a dam thing, other than the guy that came out last night din't have a clue. he messed with a filter for 2 hours and never checked any of the things you guys mentioned. it looks like a low pressure issue just from what you guys are saying but i really know very little about these things other than changing a lift pump on my dually once. it's also very heard to get under this thing. i'l open up the enging compartment in the morning and look better.
here you go quicktree see if this will help you.
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/fuel_shut_off_solenoid_replacement.html
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What have you found out so far
not a dam thing, other than the guy that came out last night din't have a clue. he messed with a filter for 2 hours and never checked any of the things you guys mentioned. it looks like a low pressure issue just from what you guys are saying but i really know very little about these things other than changing a lift pump on my dually once. it's also very heard to get under this thing. i'l open up the enging compartment in the morning and look better.
here you go quicktree see if this will help you.
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/fuel_shut_off_solenoid_replacement.html
yes that was very helpful, thanks. i'll take a look in the morning
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 12:37 PM
well i got up this morning and the fuel shut off looks like it's working. was hoping for quick fix
Posted By: Jerry Kathe
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 01:07 PM
So it is retracted in both the crank and run positions? Be sure of that, as mentioned, they fail in the crank position most often.
If you are beyond that, have someone crank it over while you crack the lines loose at the injectors, should see fuel get pushed out. If there is bubble's then it lost its prime for some reason.....no fuel...then keep going backwards in the system.
Try to prime the system using the manual plunger at the mechanical lift pump. See if it pushes fuel at the canister filter using the plunger.
Posted By: Jerry Kathe
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 01:12 PM
Should of asked this also.....any white smoke out of the exhaust while cranking. .....even trace amounts?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 04:45 PM
yes there seems to be white smoke when trying to start, what is that from?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 04:46 PM
also i didn't see the fuel shut off move in the on posistion, only when trying to start
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 04:54 PM
Quote:
also i didn't see the fuel shut off move in the on posistion, only when trying to start
Make sure that shut off arm goes all the way open
Tony... then if it is start moving backwards to see
where the loss of fuel is.. dirty filter or what.. drain
the filter also... diesels are pretty easy to figure out
Posted By: Jerry Kathe
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 05:01 PM
If you are seeing some white smoke then it is getting "some" fuel. Its possible the grid heater is not working. If you are up there in the hills it was getting pretty cool at night.
If you can positively identify the grid...aka intake....aka preheater in the intake tract, unplug it and wait a few minutes, then hit it with a shot of eather (starting fluid). You may be good to go .....just be conservative with the starting fluid.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 06:04 PM
Sounds like your getting some fuel.I would try the simplist check first and see if the pump is getting a good fuel supply.If I'am thinking correctly that pump has a gear drive with a tapered shaft and no keyway.The gear may have slipped on the shaft and has the pump out of time or not spinning it.But first find if your getting fuel to the pump.If it's an electrical problem try using a jumper wire direct from the battery to the fuel shut off and heater.Again if your not getting enough fuel to the injector pump then nothing is going to work.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 07:43 PM
Quote:
You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
Russ what a pleasure meeting and talking with you for a little while. Thanks for coming and hopefully we will get out of here very shortly. anything I can ever do for you just let me know.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/01/14 11:33 PM
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Quote:
You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
Russ what a pleasure meeting and talking with you for a little while. Thanks for coming and hopefully we will get out of here very shortly. anything I can ever do for you just let me know.
So your Fixed??
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 06:27 AM
Quote:
Quote:
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You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
Russ what a pleasure meeting and talking with you for a little while. Thanks for coming and hopefully we will get out of here very shortly. anything I can ever do for you just let me know.
So your Fixed??
I spoke to Tony around 3:00 and they where up and running, it was a bad lift pump.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 08:11 AM
thanks for the help everyone. yea we got it going. it was a bad lift pump. we just rolled in 10 hours straight through
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 03:25 PM
Quote:
thanks for the help everyone. yea we got it going. it was a bad lift pump. we just rolled in 10 hours straight through
My diesel didnt have a in tank lift pump(just the
primer pump) with the P pump but I installed a currant
in tank lift pump about 5 years ago to up the supply
pressure.. now I run 24#-30# supply pressure...
you could have strapped on any small low pressure
pump in line and got you home.. I have a pump in
my truck just in case... good to hear your all set
and back home
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 06:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
thanks for the help everyone. yea we got it going. it was a bad lift pump. we just rolled in 10 hours straight through
My diesel didnt have a in tank lift pump(just the
primer pump) with the P pump but I installed a currant
in tank lift pump about 5 years ago to up the supply
pressure.. now I run 24#-30# supply pressure...
you could have strapped on any small low pressure
pump in line and got you home.. I have a pump in
my truck just in case... good to hear your all set
and back home
yea this one is on the side of the motor just like my 97 dually. how did you guys run the fuel lines with an electric pump?
Posted By: draginmopars
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 06:43 PM
You may want to put a fuel pressure gauge on it.
We have a 93 that quit on us.
Had it towed home
Same thing found out , bad lift pump
We then put a pyro, boost and fuel pres. on
to monitor the engine.
Was told, when we bought it
should put gauges on it.
May have saved me a tow bill.
would had known what direction to look for the problem
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 06:46 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
thanks for the help everyone. yea we got it going. it was a bad lift pump. we just rolled in 10 hours straight through
My diesel didnt have a in tank lift pump(just the
primer pump) with the P pump but I installed a currant
in tank lift pump about 5 years ago to up the supply
pressure.. now I run 24#-30# supply pressure...
you could have strapped on any small low pressure
pump in line and got you home.. I have a pump in
my truck just in case... good to hear your all set
and back home
yea this one is on the side of the motor just like my 97 dually. how did you guys run the fuel lines with an electric pump?
I changed over all my fuel lines at the time so I
cut the line so I could add in a pump IF NEEDED...
but at that time I installed a in tank lift pump..
so if the in tank pump dies I can add in the in line
pump to the fuel line.. I even have 12 volts wired
to that in line pump location(thats a just in case
set up)
Just a small heads-up that my Son Matt taught me that he was taught at the truck garage where he does mechanical work. The mechanics there always add 4 ounces of 2 cycle engine oil to the tank of their personal vehicles because of issues caused by today's low sulfur diesel fuel. They still use the fuel conditioner too.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/02/14 08:38 PM
Quote:
Just a small heads-up that my Son Matt taught me that he was taught at the truck garage where he does mechanical work. The mechanics there always add 4 ounces of 2 cycle engine oil to the tank of their personal vehicles because of issues caused by today's low sulfur diesel fuel. They still use the fuel conditioner too.
So far I havent used any oil BUT I do use conditioner..
I only drive my rig in the summer months
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 03:56 PM
Quote:
You still stranded? I'm 30 min from Gatlinburg. I sent you a message with my phone number, if your still stranded call me in the morning.
hey Russ do you have any pics of your truck? I am sure the guys would love to see it.
Posted By: Dabee
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 08:10 PM
hey Russ do you have any pics of your truck? I am sure the guys would love to see it.
Tony, here you go. I had a thread on the Street Rod section while I was building it. This picture was taken while I was visiting Dodgem up in Kitchner Ontairio last year.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 08:46 PM
awesome I am sure the guys would love to see that hemi setting in there. hey I knew it was the lift pump
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 09:04 PM
Quote:
awesome I am sure the guys would love to see that hemi setting in there. hey I knew it was the lift pump
I have cheated on company road trips to get us back home
or to a shop... I ran a hose down the filler tube and
taped a pump on the 1/4 panel with a couple of wires
on it.. then the outlet hose to the pump or engine
(depending if its a gas or diesel) but it works to
get you home.... of course I had the stuff to do this
in the cars we were running(road testing for the company)..
thats why I hooked up my new fuel lines like I did
with a pump prevision location
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 09:11 PM
yea but i wouldn't want to take a chance in loosing power in the mountains. that wouldn't be good.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 09:23 PM
When I did that we were in the mountains out west..
we ran it that way 2 days... not saying its the best way
for performance but it sure will get you off the road
Posted By: lorenr
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 11:14 PM
I actually have a 97 Monaco motor home with the 325 horse 8.3 cummins. I read a lot about lift pumps going bad and have started wondering about this thread.
Would it be wise to buy an extra lift pump and keep it in my tool box? They only seem to be real expensive if you are stuck somewhere and they are not available.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/06/14 11:29 PM
Quote:
I actually have a 97 Monaco motor home with the 325 horse 8.3 cummins. I read a lot about lift pumps going bad and have started wondering about this thread.
Would it be wise to buy an extra lift pump and keep it in my tool box? They only seem to be real expensive if you are stuck somewhere and they are not available.
heck I would just change it, it was like $56 bucks. and we love out 97 monaco. I have looked at a lot of motorhomes and we like our floor plan a lot better than most.
Posted By: lorenr
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 12:29 AM
Less money than I thought. Maybe I will change it at 80,000 miles.
If I could ask, where did you get it and what was the part number? The part number may depend on the engine serial number although, I could be wrong.
From what I could find the Cummins part is several hundred while the chinese imports are around $95.00.
The Monaco's actually are pretty good rigs once you learn how to work on them. If you have an issue with your throttle control I may be able to help. That one was a real expensive pain.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 01:01 AM
i'll get the part number for you in the morning if it's on the box, I really don't know where the service guy picked it up. it may be on the box also. I looked it up on line and came up with a part number and told the guy to stop by and pick up one. he wanted to change the water separator/filter assy. he thought that was the problem. I told him after we change the pump we will tackle that if it doesn't fix it. yes that throttle control worries me, when I first got it I lost all throttle and was concerned. I cleaned the terminal where it plugs in by the gas pedal and it has never done it again. what did you find out?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 03:18 PM
it was a cummins part number 4988749, I did have to go to NAPA and get a coupling because the fuel line was a different size. cost me $3 I have no idea where he got it but it was a genuine cummins pump. I did a search and found price starting at $83 down. he charged me $56
Posted By: lorenr
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 11:39 PM
Thanks, I'll use that part number and see what I can get. I close friend of mine says that Cummins has re-manufactured parts including lift pumps that work as well as new stuff. I'll find out.
The throttle control can really become an issue. Mine never worked properly from the day it was new. Left me in trouble several times.
As far as I know this is the only person that can fix them:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cruise+king+llcHis name is Steve Boler. Be real nice to him and maybe he will sell you a spare. He rebuilds them completely which is not cheap but then neither is next day air back and forth. I used the spare just once. Nice guy and you can download a bunch of test procedures from his webb site.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 11:42 PM
thanks, is that the little box up on the motor? I didn't like the idea of drive by wire when I learned about it
Posted By: ccarson
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/07/14 11:59 PM
I have an old 3500 98.5 5.9 with the VP44 pump love the truck and the lack of a payment book, but there are a few item they all need.
To me there is no down side to replacing the factory lift pump or at least have provisions to go to a secondary pump; its not if the factory lift pump dies its when it dies; And its always on a weekend 1000 miles from home at night.
also being able to monitor the fuel pressure feeding the Injection pump is a mandatory add on.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/08/14 12:13 AM
Quote:
I have an old 3500 98.5 5.9 with the VP44 pump love the truck and the lack of a payment book, but there are a few item they all need.
To me there is no down side to replacing the factory lift pump or at least have provisions to go to a secondary pump; its not if the factory lift pump dies its when it dies; And its always on a weekend 1000 miles from home at night.
also being able to monitor the fuel pressure feeding the Injection pump is a mandatory add on.
I put the A-pillar gauge cluster on my 95 diesel
years ago.. I read EGT, boost and fuel pressure
Posted By: lorenr
Re: cummins engine tech - 12/08/14 12:22 AM
Yes, that is the black sealed box. It operates the throttle and the cruise control and the transmission and the pac break and, and, and. And you do not want it to go bad. They are totally rebuildable and not available new. As far as I know they are the weakest link in the whole coach. I also wonder if it is the reason that you can buy Dynasty's with 50,000 miles for $25,000.
The manufacturer actually told us that they don't know a thing about them. Thank God for Steve. Good luck.