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Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?
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Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?
Those filters are no bueno and had issues myself till I installed a sintered stainless cartridge filter before the pump and nothing after..............not one related fuel issue yet.
I used one of the #10 inline AN fitting filter with a 100 micron stainless, cleanable screen filter on my Duster after I found out I was starving my Magnafuel 275 pump with a 10 micron paper element mounted like yours 
Many choices on brands and sizes of fuel filters on that site I use to use two of the Fram filters mounted in parelel with two of the Holley 110 GPH blue pumps and two of the Holley fuel pressure regulators up front mounted in parelel, one to each bowl also. I found out I couldn't jet that carb up enough to make my car slow down on the MPH in the 1/4 mile and then switch the pumps to a Mallory 140 GPH pump and filter and had the same problem 
HP takes fuel at WOT, I hope you have enough 
Test it by jetting it up at the track, if you can enrichen the mixture up enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile you have enough fuel delivery, volume If not you don't 
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
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Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Quote:I plumb my cars like that but I do use a 10 micron fliter in line between the pump and the regulator alsoQuote:
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
So the filter goes after the pump ?
Thanks , but I'll take This advice
http://www.chucknuytten.com/Fuel%20Systems/Diagrams/PlumbChart.html
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You should NEVER use a 10 micron filter BEFORE the pump. Too fine and works the pump to death. Most pump makers suggest a screen only or no finer filter than 40 microns BEFORE the pump and a 10 micron AFTER pump.
Monte
It amazes me when you call the part maker how much pain and agony they can save you if you ask them for the best part combinations to use with thier products It pays to ask 
Some of us take longer to get smart than others
.....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.
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OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either
Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.
Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors
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OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either
Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.
Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Way smaller than the average eyes can see I ended up using a #10 combination fuel shut off and in line fuel fiter that was rated at 80 micron on my Duster between the pump and the gas tank sump, I should have bought the 100 micron size according to Mganafuel My new car will have that size filter rating in a 12 AN in line fuel filter with as much surface area and as long as I can get it I put the Duster together with a BG 500 in line fuel filter, it had a 10 micron fuel filter in it and it did starve the Magnafuuel 275 pump I bought new for that car 
Live and learn
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I was told years ago a Micron was one millionth of a inch,
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.
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OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either
Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.
Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors
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I have no interest in persuading anyone of anything. I attempt to clairify my statements are that of my opinion.
My opinion is based on my experience.
I havent spent money on HP in quite some time....largely because I dont care about being the fastest or quickest at the track or on some technical forums. But might I suggest not undermining someone's/anyone's knowledge by how much money they spend.
I will throw this out there....go visit the pro stockers camps and tell anyone of them they are doing it all wrong with their fuel system configurations.
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I have the quickest and fastest car on my street.............PERIOD.........AND I plumb my own fuel system all by myself and even read the directions...
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This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!
And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!
Monte
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.
I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears 
I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Quote:Gus, I will betcha you have all the ET and MPH your going to get out of the Carter pump and filter, no matter where you mount that filter
Boy do I feel like a geek
Thanks
Gus
All kidding aside those 90 GPH Fram filters do have two ninety degree turns inside of them Changing the location from the inlet to the outlet side of the pump may or any not make any difference to that pump I think those small Carter electric pumps, race or street version, are not rated above 6 lbs of pressure so the suction side is probally not straining real hard to keep the pump in fuel Maybe it is time for a better pump and filter combination
Quote:Quote:Gus, I will betcha you have all the ET and MPH your going to get out of the Carter pump and filter, no matter where you mount that filter
Boy do I feel like a geek
Thanks
Gus
I'm still pulling hard at the stripe and I'm running just under 125 MPH I got a buddy that sells wires and fuel pumps so I might just upgrade this winter
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Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.
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Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
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Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
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Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
Um......ok....
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Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.
Sorry, just threw this in for thought.
I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).
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News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
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News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?
Quote:How about doing a little research before you start blasting someone who has lots of fuel system experience. Mr P is EXACTLY right. Electric pumps are made to PUSH fuel and every company suggests they be gravity fed, but they WILL pull fuel from a dip tube once the siphon effect takes overQuote:Quote:
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
Um......ok....
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News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
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News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
So if I mount the pump on top of the tank...it should never push fuel, since atmospheric pressure isn't feeding it right?
Or am I not understanding what you mean?
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27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....
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This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!
And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!
Monte
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Well, I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV, so I try to do as Monte recommends.Quote:
This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!
And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!
Monte
So, I spoke with the guy who designed my filters AND was an engineer with the company that made my fuel pump.
So, with his recommendation of filters for my style of pump...
"40 Micron Filters
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."
I did it this way. Only been 9.92 @ 135.
Now I have seen some high end pumps with the filter mated to a common base with the pump
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So what have we learned so far from the useable information
1.Some type of wire mesh strainer in line between cell and pump.
2.Size of micron is still under debate.
3.Paper elements don't seem to be too popular.
4.One guy that thinks I'm a "geek" is concerned about mounting a filter directly to the pump
5.Most agree that a filter after the pump is a good idea.
Now I'm pretty sure that those fused brass ball filters and the single disc type filters are not considered "high performance" enough for the OP's application.
Anyone else learn anything constructive by reading this thread?
Just add to the list
Now I've been considering mounting a pump in the tank with a sock type strainer on the inlet and an inline filter about a foot from the outlet.
I found this to be a very good read. Linky: http://www.skspeed.com/p.aspx?u=Fuel%20Filters
Gus
12AN to the pump, 10 AN to the regulator, #8AN return to the tank. BG400 pump, Magnafuel 2 port regulator.
You sure you got all those hooked up right??
Quote:I bought it that way, it had a blown B1 aluminum motor in it before I bought it. It had a cam driven mecahical fuel pump so I had to add the electric fuel pump and blue filter and regulator, the other hoses are for the cooling system. It had the electric water pump and two small oil coolers for the cooling system on it when I got this car
The front end slides off to work on the motor BTW, it does look a lot like your picture
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Boy do I feel like a geek
Thanks
Gus
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Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.
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Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.