Moparts

Small block Cam Dilemma

Posted By: BPE

Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 07:55 PM

I'm finally putting together an engine for my barracuda or to possibly sell the engine outright. It will be a street/strip 421" small block that should end up around 11.3 to 1 and run on pump premium. I have a couple of cams to choose from. (1) flat tappet 260 -264 @ .050 with .640" lift (2) solid roller 260 - 266 @.050 with .670" lift. Both have 108 LS. I have all of the additional parts to put either cam in it. For resale purposes, would you pay extra if it had a roller in it over the flat tappet?

Rod
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 08:05 PM

NOPE.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 08:46 PM

To add to that Rod the switch from a solid lifter cam to a roller costs a lot of money. If you spend 700-800 for better springs, cam, roller lifters, better push rods and everything else its hard to recoup your added costs. Lots of guys like myself like to pick the parts we want in a build.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 08:57 PM

Depends on the rest of the combo, is it going to be borderline ready to split the block already? If it is going to make too much power for a stock block then no, however if it is an aftermarket block then probably yes. It just kind of depends on the rest of the set up if it is worth it or not.

On another subject... Have you been able to keep 4.25 360 main cranks in stock lately? I want one but I got to sell my 4 inch stuff, don't want to sell the 4 inch stuff if I can not get the 4.25.
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 09:00 PM

If you are trying to sell the build keep it as cheap as possible because we all know Mopar people are cheap.
Posted By: rt66jim

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/19/14 11:17 PM

Quote:

If you are trying to sell the build keep it as cheap as possible because we all know Mopar people are cheap.




Truth
Posted By: ademon

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 12:10 AM

If it's a short block sell it without any cam, if you want to sell a long block pan to carb I would do the FT.
Posted By: BPE

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 12:30 AM

It seems all of you are thinking the same way I am. There really is no return on the roller investment.

Dave, I have around 10 in stock currently.

Rod
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 12:33 AM

Me personally, when I buy a non running, used motor with a FT cam, I just assume the cam will be flat, plus I am going to change it anyway. And with a used roller motor, I assume the lifters will be worn out or junk..........Now, if you are going to sell the motor as "new" and ready to go, I would rather have the roller. NOT a FT fan here. Don't see the point.

Monte
Posted By: Leon441

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 12:40 AM

Roller if you use good lifters, Crower, Morrell or equivalent.

Comps will go in the trash.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 12:59 AM

roller all the way imo
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 04:16 AM

Use the cheapest stuff you use,Brad is 100% right and if you get half of what you paid it'll be a success.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/20/14 07:12 PM

That's right. On a good day you can hope to recover 60% of your investment, you'd lose hundreds with the roller, even though that's the best choice.

R.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 03:21 AM

Quote:

roller all the way imo




I would never buy a FT cam motor.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 03:44 AM

Rod,
Bring the roller set up over and test it in my small block and see what it gains you. My guess is very little for a lot of $$$$
Its amazing how so many people fear flat tappet camshafts.

Keith
Posted By: ademon

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 05:11 AM

Quote:

Rod,
Bring the roller set up over and test it in my small block and see what it gains you. My guess is very little for a lot of $$$$
Its amazing how so many people fear flat tappet camshafts.

Keith



I'd like to see that, say a mild cam in the 580 to 600 lift range and maybe the FT gets 1.6 rockers.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 06:27 AM

Quote:

Rod,
Bring the roller set up over and test it in my small block and see what it gains you. My guess is very little for a lot of $$$$
Its amazing how so many people fear flat tappet camshafts.

Keith




Posted By: justinp61

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 03:52 PM

I'm going to freshen my pump 93 408 over the winter and considered going to a roller. The current cam is a 260/264 @ .050 flat solid and has gone 6.57 with a 1.38 60' best and 6.70, 1.40 in street trim at 3260#. The roller conversion was going to cost $1400. I don't see the small gain in a street/strip engine like mine being worth the costs.

Instead of spending the money on a roller I'll have some head work done and change pistons to get the compression up from 10.9-1 to around 11.4-1.
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 07:28 PM

Has nothing to do with FEAR of a flat tappet cam for me. I just don't want one and see no purpose in it. With the new hydraulic grinds, hydraulic rollers and solid rollers available now, a flat tappet just has no place for anything I choose to do

Monte
Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 07:36 PM

I had a hyd flat in my 416 but after seeing this build I copy'd the cam and dropped in a set of his lifters. Haven't run it yet but I liked the numbers he made. I had 500 HP with the 292H Comp and the motor was perfectly happy spinning 7000. Voodoo 60434 in now.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=189967


Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 09:06 PM

Best way to solve the dilema is to build the motor the way you like and put it in your car, and enjoy the car. That way the only person that needs to be made happy is you.
Win, win
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 09:38 PM

I think a lot of guys are forgetting that he started this post asking about RESALE purposes.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 09:41 PM

Quote:

I think a lot of guys are forgetting that he started this post asking about RESALE purposes.




Actually he said he was thinking about putting it in his barracuda...... OR....... Selling the motor

But..... I am as old or older than you Pittsburgh, and my mind isn't what it used to be...... Lol
Posted By: DblOJoe

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/21/14 11:35 PM

Just put something together and sell it so you can buy your dream car....
Posted By: QTR MILR

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 12:09 AM

Quote:

Just put something together and sell it so you can buy your dream car....



Why rush now??
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 12:24 AM

Quote:

I think a lot of guys are forgetting that he started this post asking about RESALE purposes.


yep more like a thinly veiled for sale add, but i don't mind
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 01:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think a lot of guys are forgetting that he started this post asking about RESALE purposes.


yep more like a thinly veiled for sale add, but i don't mind





That's what I saw it as. A solicitation of sorts, with hopes of members PM,ing him asking him to build this SB or that.
Posted By: BPE

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 01:51 AM

This was actually a real question about what other people would do, as well as what people would or wouldn't pay extra for. I'm well aware of where the for sale section is slow wood.

Rod
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 02:16 AM

it's ok beeper, you can slide one in we don't mind, everyone has to make a living
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 02:30 AM

Monte,
My post wasn't really aimed at you. It's just that there are so many guys beating down flat tappet builds anymore that the guy with very little budget is almost bullied into thinking if he doesn't spend the money for a roller he will destroy his engine.
I personally enjoy out running big inch roller cammed race fueled bracket cars with a flat tappet stock stroke pump gas build.

But I'm poor so maybe that's why???
Keith
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 02:43 AM

I have built and run all of them FT, Hyd Roller and solid rollers. If its a 100% race motor than for me its a solid roller period.
For a street\strip motor than maybe a Hyd roller but I would never do another FT and its not because I am afraid of them its just old azz technology, and you can just get a much better lobe going to a roller.
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 03:55 AM

Quote:

Monte,
My post wasn't really aimed at you. It's just that there are so many guys beating down flat tappet builds anymore that the guy with very little budget is almost bullied into thinking if he doesn't spend the money for a roller he will destroy his engine.
I personally enjoy out running big inch roller cammed race fueled bracket cars with a flat tappet stock stroke pump gas build.

But I'm poor so maybe that's why???
Keith


Yeah, but you are not doing that because you have a FT cam. You are doing that because the other guy just likely has a pile of mismatched parts and you have a well sorted combo.

I like everybody else ran a big FT years ago, but that was because you HAD to. Don't now, so I surely don't.

And the cost thing in my opinion is blown WAY out of proportion. Somebody said it cost $1500 to put a roller cam in his motor. Really, how was that. A FT is $200 a roller is $350.......so that's $150. Then lifters for a FT are $125 and roller lifters are $350 and up. So that's less than $400 more the roller setup costs you. Now if you went from a small hydraulic and had to buy springs, locks, retainers, pushrods etc, you could spend that much......but wouldn't all those same parts be required if you went to a BIG FT??.......Then there is the aggravation of breaking the FT in properly and the fear of wiping a lobe off it doing so..........No thanks, I will spend the extra $500 or so.

I understand a budget, I really do, but I am also a believer in spending my money wisely, on things that will help the motor and make it MORE reliable. Because more times than not, it ends up saving you money in the long run.

Monte
Posted By: justinp61

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 04:05 AM

Monty, how can a solid roller make my engine more reliable? The flat solid has been in for five years with no issues. When I checked prices this summer using all Comp stuff it was going to cost over $1400 to go solid roller. The only thing I can reuse is my rocker arms.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 04:15 AM

I have seen just as many failed roller lifter and cam combinations as I have flat tappets. But to be fair I believe it's because a lot of guys don't think they have to worry about break in with a roller and maintenance is also lacking.
Opinions will vary on this subject, but I am glad to see Monte posting more on here.
Anyway, carry on.
Keith
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 05:20 AM

I personally have had WAY more roller lifter failures than I have solid cam failures.
Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 05:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Monte,
My post wasn't really aimed at you. It's just that there are so many guys beating down flat tappet builds anymore that the guy with very little budget is almost bullied into thinking if he doesn't spend the money for a roller he will destroy his engine.
I personally enjoy out running big inch roller cammed race fueled bracket cars with a flat tappet stock stroke pump gas build.

But I'm poor so maybe that's why???
Keith


Yeah, but you are not doing that because you have a FT cam. You are doing that because the other guy just likely has a pile of mismatched parts and you have a well sorted combo.

I like everybody else ran a big FT years ago, but that was because you HAD to. Don't now, so I surely don't.

And the cost thing in my opinion is blown WAY out of proportion. Somebody said it cost $1500 to put a roller cam in his motor. Really, how was that. A FT is $200 a roller is $350.......so that's $150. Then lifters for a FT are $125 and roller lifters are $350 and up. So that's less than $400 more the roller setup costs you. Now if you went from a small hydraulic and had to buy springs, locks, retainers, pushrods etc, you could spend that much......but wouldn't all those same parts be required if you went to a BIG FT??.......Then there is the aggravation of breaking the FT in properly and the fear of wiping a lobe off it doing so..........No thanks, I will spend the extra $500 or so.

I understand a budget, I really do, but I am also a believer in spending my money wisely, on things that will help the motor and make it MORE reliable. Because more times than not, it ends up saving you money in the long run.

Monte




I'm the king of cheap.....you CAN buy used roler cams cheap....and get roller lifters rebuilt....lol lots of good used stuff out there for the smart shopper . Helps to if you know/trust the guy you buy from.mimgot some roller cams that I'll sell cheap.
Posted By: ademon

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 09:58 AM

Quote:

I personally have had WAY more roller lifter failures than I have solid cam failures.



This is what I have been hearing also
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 05:39 PM

Quote:

I personally have had WAY more roller lifter failures than I have solid cam failures.




then there is another problem that has not been addressed like not enough spring and bouncing the lifter off the lobe.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I personally have had WAY more roller lifter failures than I have solid cam failures.




then there is another problem that has not been addressed like not enough spring and bouncing the lifter off the lobe.





Or being cheap and not wanting to buy new ones.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 07:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I personally have had WAY more roller lifter failures than I have solid cam failures.




then there is another problem that has not been addressed like not enough spring and bouncing the lifter off the lobe.





Or being cheap and not wanting to buy new ones.




Ok maybe that
Posted By: Porter67

Re: Small block Cam Dilemma - 11/22/14 09:29 PM

This is why so many think mopar people suck, tossing in comments about not going with a roller lifter because some just dont like them, so they get pegged as cheap.

Are we not all flying the same mopar flag?

So of course toss out the "Cheap" comment.

I dont like roller lifters on the street my solids cost more then most rollers.

Ive used 3 sets of these over the past 10 years with zero issues,even on one section of the drive home were I can run 140mph at 7200-7300 for a good 30 seconds. And do it everyday summer day when nice out.

Im cheap, because I got 5 years out of a set of coated bearings and could of reused them but sold the assembly.

The only cam that could not take it was a rough azz core purple shaft years ago.

I dont think PBR just fell off the turnip truck and is cheap.

Matched parts are the key to a great running, great power build and these get a bad wrap because some cant get the correct spring concept down or have the cam ground on a billet core in some apps.

It all comes down to a personal choice and to many its not about money.

Sorry to go off track on the semi-cookie cutter stroker build.

But id just say build it any way you decide, dyno it, do a post dyno inspection with a buyer and its gone.

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