Moparts
Lots of shock questions lately
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 07:07 PM
Seen a multitude of shock questions of late. Shocks are one of THE MOST important, yet most overlooked things on many cars. Guys spend tens of thousands of dollars on power and "cool guy" suspension parts and then put $39 shocks on their cars and wonder why it won't work.
I always say, buy as GOOD of a shock as you can afford. Well, if all you can afford is $39 shocks, maybe you should wait a while.
Here is a quick test to see it your front shocks pass the mustard and this could range from a 7 sec car, to a 12 sec car..........Put a floor jack under your car and if adjustable, put your front shocks on "full stiff".........Now jack it up as quick as you can. If the front tire stays on the ground as you jack it up quick...your shocks are JUNK.
Monte
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 07:21 PM
Monte..I already know my front CEs are junk. So if I race again I will be putting the best front shock I can afford. Your advise did not fall upon deaf ears! Yet!!
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 07:24 PM
Sound advice and I agree often the most overlooked part on a racecar.
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 07:27 PM
This spring I plan on buying new shocks for my Road Runner. My plan is to go with Afco DA in the rear, and Afco singles in the front with Bounce control. I know DA's in the front would be best, but is it really NEEDED for a bracket car?
Jeff
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 07:29 PM
Al. I wish I knew more about the Vi-King shocks. They seem like a mid level shock. May end up going that way.
Posted By: sixpacksteve
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 08:30 PM
hey monte, Never heard this before. i love sound advise.So bear with me. i thought the front end was suppose to lift up with as little resistance. and come down hard on the shock? i have New QA1's all around,single adjustment. car runs 10.0's comes up maybe 6"at most. which is good for drag racing. i thought i'd be on the back bumper when i launch! not so. thanks
Posted By: OUTLAWD
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 08:37 PM
Coming from 2 wheels and going around corners, we would do the same thing. Compress the front and rear, and watch how fast they came up...stock valving always looked like a pogo stick, where a good shock would take a couple seconds.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:16 PM
Quote:
hey monte, Never heard this before. i love sound advise.So bear with me. i thought the front end was suppose to lift up with as little resistance. and come down hard on the shock? i have New QA1's all around,single adjustment. car runs 10.0's comes up maybe 6"at most. which is good for drag racing. i thought i'd be on the back bumper when i launch! not so. thanks
Not EVERY car needs to instantly stretch the shock when the car leaves. The point here is buy a GOOD shock. If you need it loose, it can be loose, if you need it tight, it can be tight. When I mention the test above, notice I said adjust your shock "full tight" and do the test. But that doesn't mean you can't loosen the shock up if it needs to be.
Now lets look at something else. Your car is going to snatch the front way harder than you can hit it with a floor jack, so if your shock can't pass the test, when you leave it is likely headed straight to limiter and or topping out shock........which immediately stops weight transfer at THAT point.
Even a low powered car that needs a LOT of pitch rotation, still needs shock control. You don't want it to hammer the stops or top of the shock
Monte
Posted By: TheBlackCar
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:17 PM
Monte,
Perhaps you can be the new suspension guy since Dave Morgan retired. Whatcha think? Winter suspension seminars w/ Monte? Maybe a 2 day w/ some N20 on the second day?
I can set-up your first one in beautiful NE Ohio....
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:19 PM
...........LOL!!!........doubt anybody would show up for that
Monte
Posted By: theraif
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:31 PM
bought the car in 97 built it raced from 98-2002 with what ever old shock were on the front
run
CE 50/50 on the back
Posted By: BradH
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:32 PM
Quote:
Even a low powered car that needs a LOT of pitch rotation, still needs shock control. You don't want it to hammer the stops or top of the shock
You don't mean that CLUNK I hear when the front suspension tops out against my trimmed-down control arm bumpers just off the hit, do you?
Perhaps I'll see what a couple of clicks more on the front rebound adjustment does when the car gets back on the track... 
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:37 PM
Quote:
bought the car in 97 built it raced from 98-2002 with what ever old shock were on the front
run
CE 50/50 on the back
So what's your point? I used to run my own car with drilled front stock shocks and some old truck shocks, with homemade extenders and managed to get it down the track. But was it the BEST it could be........hell no........far from it. But a couple years later, that same car with good shocks was going high teen 60fts on a 10.5 tire.
"Good enough" is relative to who is saying it. Your interpretation of that statement and mine are likely different
Monte
Posted By: TheBlackCar
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 09:43 PM
"Good enough" is relative to who is saying it. Your interpretation of that statement and mine are likely different
Monte
As my mentor used to say "Good Enough, no faster than you're gonna go!"
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 10:17 PM
How common is it to see a shock dyno is the pits at a drag race? How many have them back at the shop?
I know in our local Circle Track racing, 20 years ago having a shock dyno was un-imaginable for a local non traveling team. Maybe a couple traveling teams in Winston West (one under Busch) had them. 10 years ago, a few local teams had them. Now many have them. Shock tech has gone up and shock dyno prices have gone down.
Wonder if shock dyno's will get more widespread in Drag Racing too?
Posted By: BigFish69
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 10:22 PM
Monte
Do you have any brand shock preference you would recommend for a double adj. rear shock on ladder bar car.
Thanks Tom
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 10:26 PM
Few teams have their own dynos, because drag cars don't have to change shocks for various tracks like a round track car. We don't really need low and high speed valving changes from track to track. On a drag car, once you get out about 100ft, the shocks do nothing but absorb bumps in the track. Shock control at the hit is what matters.
That said, you do see some shock guys at the tracks these days with dynos, testing and setting up shocks
Monte
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 10:43 PM
Quote:
...........LOL!!!........doubt anybody would show up for that
Monte
Make it somewhere warm in the winter and I'll be there! 
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 10:46 PM
Quote:
Monte
Do you have any brand shock preference you would recommend for a double adj. rear shock on ladder bar car.
Thanks Tom
I get this question all the time and it is a hard one to answer. If you have a 7 sec door car and a 12 sec door car, your shock needs are different. But if you just order a DA shock from Jegs, Summit, whoever, you will get the same shock for both cars.
I see guys say Strange all the time, and they DO make a good shock, but their standard shock, has too soft of valving in it for higher HP cars, yet may be perfect for some. And the same goes for about any other mainstream shock company. You order a generic shock, you GET a generic shock. As with any other parts, you need what YOU need. The best way to get that might be custom. You need to talk with the actual shock company and get a shock YOU NEED. Will this route cost you more........maybe, unless they feel their "shelf" shock will fit your needs.
Now, as to what shocks I use. I generally use Santhuffs, but they ain't cheap. Now does every car out there need $1500 worth of shocks on both ends........No, but you do need a decent shock..............So, my answer to your question, about what shock I suggest..........it depends. But the companies I feel make a GOOD shock, provided you get the right one....probably Strange and Afco are on top of my list. Obviously I am leaving out the more "expensive" shocks like Santhuff, Lamb, Penske, Koni, JRI, etc. but these will ALL be made for your car and are considered custom shocks.
Monte
Posted By: 496 A-body
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 11:00 PM
Quote:
This spring I plan on buying new shocks for my Road Runner. My plan is to go with Afco DA in the rear, and Afco singles in the front with Bounce control. I know DA's in the front would be best, but is it really NEEDED for a bracket car?
Jeff
I have Afco eliminator big gun doubles on the rear of my car, but Afco Reactor singles in the front with BNC. The reactor singles with BNC definitely DO NOT pass Monte's test as of right now, the gas pressure is so high in them that it is a real chore compressing them to put them on the car and it actually raises the front when installed. I talked to a guy at the last IMIS show and he assured me that the extreme gas pressure was correct for the BNC valving yet when I called AFCO later the guy I talked to said they went out with way too much of a charge and recommended I buy a nitrogen shock charging kit to fine tune, I dont want to do this so I recommend going with eliminator doubles up front and get the BNC if you think you'll need it.
Posted By: Dyno1
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/17/14 11:58 PM
Quote:
Al. I wish I knew more about the Vi-King shocks. They seem like a mid level shock. May end up going that way.
Step up to an Afco double. Do not throw your $$$ away.
Posted By: 383man
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 12:48 AM
I am the first to admit alot of my cars build is like we built them in the 60's and 70's as my rear shocks are a set my late great friend Randy gave me which are the MP longer extending shocks and I have the Comp 3 click 90/10's up front. But I am not as full time racer as mine is mostly a street car and my budget is tight. I dont have killer 60 times for a mid to high 10 car (my best is 1.50) but its in the ballpark to race in a few NSS races and even win a few rounds. I agree that shocks can make a big difference and if I had the budget I would run Cal Tracs and a good set of shocks. Heck I remember when the hot ticket was to drill a hole in the front shocks and drain the fluid out !
Posted By: dvw
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 01:37 AM
I do have "decent' shocks on mine. Afco doubles up front, Koni doubles on the back. Car is OK in 60 foot but not great. I continue to tighten everything up with no real change. The wheels rise slowly, not off the ground until about 8 feet out (6"-12") and set down smoothly. Appears to dead hook. 54% on the nose. At this point I'm assuming I need more power, gear, or converter? Ladder bars in the lowest hole. 10.5x29.5, 4.10, 3340lbs, 130lb springs. Best 1.29/3.73/5.80/9.12. Any suggestions?
Thanks Doug
Posted By: n20mstr
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 02:49 AM
Ok Monte....what should I do ?
I'm about to buy shocks.
Right now I have Afco double up front. But they are so old, I called afco and they said they cant revalve them. They are 1/8 turn off of full tight on ext, they are full tight on compression.
In the back I have strange single adjustable.
The car is a ladder bar, and likes to wheelie.
I plan on running ultra on the old mt
What shocks should I get ?
Yes I'm changing the valve body to leave in 2nd ( t 400!with stock first and 3.70 rear )
Yes I'm going to get more weight up front (at least 53% to start )
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 06:54 PM
Lets look at what a shock does. At the hit, the shock controls the acceleration of the front end up. If it is a low powered car that needs a lot of pitch rotation, you may NEED the front to come up fast...........BUT, it STILL needs to be under control and not just floppy loose, as that will bang the limiters or harshly top out the shock and unsettle the chassis. On the other side of the shock, if the car wheelstands and the shock is too stiff when the car lands, it is simply going to flatten the tire and spring the front of the car right back up in the air. I am sure we have all seen cars that carry the fronts really high, but when the car touches down, it is nice and smooth with no bounce. That is ALL in the shock..........So to answer above question Tony, first I don't understand why your fronts are full tight on compression, as that would seem to make the car harsh on landings, unless the shocks are just toast. I understand the tight on extension with the radials, but even at full tight, those shocks are probably too loose.
On the rear, most say a DA shock is a waste on a ladder bar car......I disagree. I think ANY car needs a D/A shock, because lets face it, at SOME point during the run, the shock is going to move both ways, so lets have control over it. You say you have Stranges...........a decent shock, but I guarantee yours are valved too lightly for what you are trying to do.
I know the goals for this car and that is to have a 4 sec radial tired car..........NOT going to consistently get there without GOOD shocks on both ends. The "hitters" that run that old tire in these classes consistently go low teen 60fts on that old tire on good tracks.
So, my answer to your question and you probably won't like it.......LOL!!!.........is to call Mark(Menscer) or Ronnie at Santhuff and get you some GOOD shocks. And yep, this is probably going to cost you about 3k
On your wheelstand issue, you probably KNOW this, but going to repeat it anyway. A radial HAS to dead hook. You are NOT going to spin it and get down the track. That said, with the tire dead hooked and trying to pour on the power, if the front is trying to power up, no amount of chassis or shock adjustments fix that. It is strictly weight percentage. So build your car to tune it this way. As the day goes on, you will have to move weight from back to front, the better the track gets. Many times we start with nothing on the nose in the morning and end up with 80 on the nose at night, during the course of a day. If you are wondering what that does to our percentage.........it pushes it from 54% to over 58% on the nose, but there is where we have to run it to keep the nose down on "killer" tracks.......But we always have the "expert" who comes in to tell us "well, if you got after it harder early, it wouldn't do that"......really, it just went 1.05 with a 2.76 to 330.......exactly how much HARDER you want me to get after it.........LOL!!!
Monte
Monte
Posted By: theraif
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 10:01 PM
-my only point is top of my head my junk will never be fast enough for shocks to a big issue
Posted By: hustlin hoosier
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 10:24 PM
Until Monte stated earlier I did not realize there was different valving available from Strange. I have since talk to them and they have a stiffer valve available. I can be put on ext or return or both. They call it pro-mod valve, and there is no premium for it to be installed on new shocks.
Maybe now I won't have to depend on limiters as much.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/18/14 10:31 PM
My Lamb stuff has always worked well
Mark Menser will be at SCSN and we will be talking to him bot the HS car.
Posted By: sixpacksteve
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 01:16 AM
Monte, how much difference would i see in my car if i went from a qa1 to a Santhuff shock?
Posted By: slammedR/T
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 03:35 AM
I appreciate all the good tech on shocks, never thought about them till this post. I will be getting with santhuff soon, and now I feel better about my strange coil overs on my truck too
Posted By: onig
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 03:41 AM
when you leave it is likely headed straight to limiter and or topping out shock........which immediately stops weight transfer at THAT point.
Why does the weight transfer stop at that point?
Is it because the front now has the added weight of the wheels and suspension parts that it needs to lift?
Posted By: QTR MILR
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 04:21 AM
Quote:
when you leave it is likely headed straight to limiter and or topping out shock........which immediately stops weight transfer at THAT point.
Why does the weight transfer stop at that point?
Is it because the front now has the added weight of the wheels and suspension parts that it needs to lift?
Yep that's it in a nutshell... The car is working to lift x amount of weight now all of a sudden you are asking it to lift more. Ideally the shock is controlling the lift at a steady rate pulling the fronts off before the suspension tops out.....
Posted By: mr2performance
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 06:27 AM
If you're thinking about buying or inquiring about Santhuff shocks, give me a shout. We are one of their largest dealers, and the pricing isn't that far off of a normal double adjustable shock. Mike Roth
mr2performance@sbcglobal.net
Posted By: n20mstr
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 07:37 AM
Monte thanks for the response, and exactly what I thought .
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 09:57 AM
A bounce when coming down from a wheelie isn't ALWAYS the shocks fault. Sometimes guys think that if they are bottoming out on compression they think "I need a stiffer front spring" and then the bounce is a problem. Also ive seen setups that limit travel on extension, doing that compounds my above scenario. Torsion bars can be an issue because to get good suspension drop out, or droop/extension, they need to be usually in the .850" or under diameter to have good stored energy. In that case a shock with "correct" compression valving can really shine. IMO the bounce needs a shock with a pretty stiff compression stack and a nice adjustable rebound ability. Then you can tailor the rebound to not only keep the wheelie in check but also keep the nose down after landing.
Posted By: NOM36
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 11:24 AM
Been thinking about a double adjustable shocks for sometime now and as I am going from 9.5's to hopefully 9.0's in the near future with a 572 combo I will probably need them.
Previously had limiters and old 90/10 shocks and was unloading the rears several feet out from the line. Fitted Koni SPA1's to the front (really needed better, but it worked OK at the time).
Have looked at the Santhuff's, but was a little concerned by the 3.5 inch travel compared to 5inch with Afco's. What do you guys think about that for my performance considering I am footbraking.
Anyway, slomo video of the car running 9.5's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwjIRyZ80_Q
Posted By: 340B5
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 01:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Al. I wish I knew more about the Vi-King shocks. They seem like a mid level shock. May end up going that way.
Step up to an Afco double. Do not throw your $$$ away.
I like my Vikings. I was able to hook on a slimey 50deg track on Nov 8 because of them.
Posted By: FlyFish
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 02:41 PM
You also have to be careful to not get sucked into all the hype about certain shocks being the cure all. A few years back everyone and their brother was telling me that my CE shocks were junk, and that brand-X front shocks would make my car 60' sooo much faster. So, I finally caved in and got the new shocks, and lo and behold, the car ran EXACTLY the same....but my wallet sure was lighter.
Posted By: mr2performance
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 05:59 PM
"Have looked at the Santhuff's, but was a little concerned by the 3.5 inch travel compared to 5inch with Afco's. What do you guys think about that for my performance considering I am footbraking."
Thats not a problem, each set that we sell is custom built to your ride height spec. Also that 3.5" of travel is measured at the shock, not the wheel which should equate to around 5" total. Mike
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 06:52 PM
Quote:
You also have to be careful to not get sucked into all the hype about certain shocks being the cure all. A few years back everyone and their brother was telling me that my CE shocks were junk, and that brand-X front shocks would make my car 60' sooo much faster. So, I finally caved in and got the new shocks, and lo and behold, the car ran EXACTLY the same....but my wallet sure was lighter.
That does NOT mean the new shocks weren't better..........it just likely means you didn't get the most out of them. Good shocks are not the magic "fix all" for a poorly working car.........BUT, they ARE required to make you car work as well as it possibly can. They are a huge part of the overall package.
I generally get my Santhuffs from Mike Roth. As he says, he is one of their largest dealers and can likely get them quicker than you can by calling Santhuff yourself. Plus, for the vast majority of guys, Mike will know exactly what you need for what you intend to do
Monte
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 07:22 PM
So how much does a set of 4 Santhuffs cost? Rear coilovers, and fronts for stock suspension. Their web site isn't much help.
Jeff
Posted By: RT540
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/19/14 09:28 PM
My chassi got Lamb front struts from -95 and came from Haas with double adjust. Konis back.
Last owner changed rear to Santhuff and they hade recently been back to Santhuff for a rebuild and came with a protocol.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 01:36 AM
You guys looking for shocks and prices just need to call Mark Roth if you are interested in Santhuffs and Mark Menscer or AFCO direct if that is your choice.
The reason is........a shock is NOT a shock. Even in GOOD D/A shocks, the intended purpose of the car comes into play. We call most GOOD race shocks "double adjustable" but shocks really have 4 adjustments that can be made to them. There is a high and low speed rebound and a high and low speed extension. Since drag cars don't see varying track conditions like a round track car, having all 4 externally adjustable is not needed...........BUT, the power level and type suspension used, will dictate where in the valving the low speed takes over from the high.
High speed valving is defined as hitting the shock hard and fast, such as at launch. Low speed is usually down track to absorb bumps. Since shocks are very sensitive to velocity, the type suspension and power level greatly comes into play on choosing a valving. Power and a violent suspension setup, like a ladder bar, will require the high speed to be very sensitive, very quick, to control the housing. Lesser power and lesser aggressive suspension, like leafs, will change the transition point in the valving.
All this is why a "serious" guy should not just pick up the phone and order some shocks from Jegs
Monte
Posted By: fullmetaljacket
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 02:52 AM
Just spoke with Eric today over at Afco and got the 411 on the part numbers, price and valving along with ext and compression figures.
Should have them in a week or so. Aluminum at that and they weigh 4-1/2 Lbs.
He has suggested certain settings as a start point and go from there depending on track conditions and so forth.
Painting them black to make 'em disappear within the chassis.
Posted By: mr2performance
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 12:16 PM
The rears retail for $1210 a pair and the fronts are $1000 retail. I can save you quite a bit of money over those prices though. Mike
Posted By: meepmeep70
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 01:00 PM
so on the strange coil over shocks, they have a weight to select beside the coil, what this for? i want a pair fpr the front and rear of my 70 runner, 535 stroker, so if someone can explain what the diffrent weights mean? ex.200lbs 350lbs ect. thank you.
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 04:40 PM
Quote:
The rears retail for $1210 a pair and the fronts are $1000 retail. I can save you quite a bit of money over those prices though. Mike
Thanks Mike.
You have a PM.
Jeff
Posted By: Quickrunner
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/20/14 05:35 PM
Quote:
You guys looking for shocks and prices just need to call Mark Roth if you are interested in Santhuffs and Mark Menscer or AFCO direct if that is your choice.
The reason is........a shock is NOT a shock. Even in GOOD D/A shocks, the intended purpose of the car comes into play. We call most GOOD race shocks "double adjustable" but shocks really have 4 adjustments that can be made to them. There is a high and low speed rebound and a high and low speed extension. Since drag cars don't see varying track conditions like a round track car, having all 4 externally adjustable is not needed...........BUT, the power level and type suspension used, will dictate where in the valving the low speed takes over from the high.
High speed valving is defined as hitting the shock hard and fast, such as at launch. Low speed is usually down track to absorb bumps. Since shocks are very sensitive to velocity, the type suspension and power level greatly comes into play on choosing a valving. Power and a violent suspension setup, like a ladder bar, will require the high speed to be very sensitive, very quick, to control the housing. Lesser power and lesser aggressive suspension, like leafs, will change the transition point in the valving.
All this is why a "serious" guy should not just pick up the phone and order some shocks from Jegs
Monte
Best explanation I have seen on this board! People dont realize how involved every aspect of a purpose build drag car really is, or should be! Hats off to you Monte
Posted By: nitrousr
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/21/14 09:04 AM
Great thread, Thanks Monty! Have a question, our car is a 540 hemi with a F-3 in a duster. made 1600hp with our small pulley and 1200tq question is car currently has 10 inch da konis on the front but I was thinking of switching to a 12 inch shock for ground clearance (5 inch exhaust) Right now leaning towards the santhufs based on this thread, is the extra travel going to hurt or help us or should we be able to tune it either way?
Posted By: mr2performance
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/21/14 02:17 PM
Quote:
Great thread, Thanks Monty! Have a question, our car is a 540 hemi with a F-3 in a duster. made 1600hp with our small pulley and 1200tq question is car currently has 10 inch da konis on the front but I was thinking of switching to a 12 inch shock for ground clearance (5 inch exhaust) Right now leaning towards the santhufs based on this thread, is the extra travel going to hurt or help us or should we be able to tune it either way? [/quote
We can limit the travel in the shock internally if need be. You're not going to need the extra travel. Mike
Posted By: moparniac
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/21/14 09:38 PM
Good thread.
Posted By: Sweigart1022
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/23/14 03:01 AM
If anybody is interested or ever has questions about Penske Racing Shocks let me know. I split my time currently between the drag race and NASCAR shocks at Penske. Our shocks are custom made for every car. Everything is hand built to customer specs. Everything is dynoed before it is shipped and every shock matches. We have a huge data base. Also currently all Pro Stock cars run Penske Shocks. I bracket race and I think we all know how much varying 60' times can be the difference in a first round loss or a final round appearance. I think the information in this post is good. I will never bash another shock companies product. If anybody has questions just PM me.
Posted By: all spooled up
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/29/14 05:05 PM
Posted By: Bigcube
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/29/14 10:49 PM
I tried the jack trick on mine when I was winterizing it. My Koni's failed miserably. I think they are single adjustable. Is the single adjustment for compression or extension?
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/30/14 09:47 AM
Both
Monte
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/30/14 12:05 PM
Quote:
when you leave it is likely headed straight to limiter and or topping out shock........which immediately stops weight transfer at THAT point.
Why does the weight transfer stop at that point?
Is it because the front now has the added weight of the wheels and suspension parts that it needs to lift?
As I understand it, suddenly stopping front rise sends a shock wave of sorts back through the chassis, and that shock wave tries to lift the back tires off the track. It can be very mild, or in the case of a violent leaving car with way too much weight transfer, enough to create spin.
Posted By: deaks
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/30/14 02:11 PM
Can this be controlled to a certain extent by adjusting launch rpm, for e.g loading the converter as opposed to flashing it.
Mick
Posted By: dvw
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 11/30/14 02:55 PM
As the car leaves it pitch rotates. While this is happening the stored energy in the front spring/torsion bar is being used up. This energy diminishes until the suspension is at the end of its travel. The trick is to adjust the rebound so that the limit is never reached. Load transfer stops once the front wheels are off the ground as far as body weight is concerned. The other suspension factor controlling load now is rear housing control. Of course there is still the issue of pitch rotation. Is the car coming back down, staying neutral, or still going up?
Doug
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 12:06 AM
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
Posted By: CHAPPER
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 12:14 AM
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 12:16 AM
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
gonna guess fronts
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 12:33 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
gonna guess fronts
A good video would tell you a lot
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:18 AM
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
If your car doesn't have a wheelieing problem I would go with rears. If it's pulling the wheels a lot then I would want fronts. But I don't think with your gears you have a problem in the front.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:33 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
If your car doesn't have a wheelieing problem I would go with rears. If it's pulling the wheels a lot then I would want fronts. But I don't think with your gears you have a problem in the front.
That was a very nice way to tell me Im slow. Ok, lets say i start spraying a 150 shot on it. Then fronts or rears?
Your answer better not be " you'll still be slow" 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
gonna guess fronts
A good video would tell you a lot
don't need a video to tell me which ones I would replace first
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:39 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
gonna guess fronts
A good video would tell you a lot
don't need a video to tell me which ones I would replace first
From what I seen on DW I would go with the rears
but now he is talking spraying it... more than likely
I would still go with rears... but thats JMO
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:41 AM
the rears are the better of the 2 he has. you can't control anything with a 90/10
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:48 AM
Quote:
the rears are the better of the 2 he has. you can't control anything with a 90/10
From what I understand he has the 3 ways in front
which I dont like but I have no knowledge of whats
on the rear.. but as said if it isnt going way up
then go with rears... again... JMO... but I like
a vid so I have a better idea
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:51 AM
Calvert 90/10s on my fronts
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 01:57 AM
Quote:
Calvert 90/10s on my fronts
Does it do big wheel stands now and are you gonna
use a progressive spray control
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
If your car doesn't have a wheelieing problem I would go with rears. If it's pulling the wheels a lot then I would want fronts. But I don't think with your gears you have a problem in the front.
That was a very nice way to tell me Im slow. Ok, lets say i start spraying a 150 shot on it. Then fronts or rears?
Your answer better not be " you'll still be slow"
Don't you only have 3.54 rear gears? I would put the 3 way on the front and still get rears for nitrous use. It should go bottom nines on the hit, that would be fun to see at drag week.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:08 AM
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Monte,
If you have 90\10s or 3 ways on the front and single adj on the back, you can only afford to buy 2 shocks, which one do you replace
If your car doesn't have a wheelieing problem I would go with rears. If it's pulling the wheels a lot then I would want fronts. But I don't think with your gears you have a problem in the front.
That was a very nice way to tell me Im slow. Ok, lets say i start spraying a 150 shot on it. Then fronts or rears?
Your answer better not be " you'll still be slow"
Don't you only have 3.54 rear gears? I would put the 3 way on the front and still get rears for nitrous use. It should go bottom nines on the hit, that would be fun to see at drag week.
Yes on the gears. So you want me to buy 4 shocks. I only gave the option of buying 2. I made the question for many guys like me that have a similar shock setup and financial status
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:16 AM
Oh I thought you had both fronts available. I would still go rears and if you start to have a wheeling problem you can bandaid it with front end limiters. They are easy to build on a bodies. You can use a digitset to delay the nitrous at the hit.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:24 AM
Quote:
Oh I thought you had both fronts available. I would still go rears and if you start to have a wheeling problem you can bandaid it with front end limiters. They are easy to build on a bodies. You can use a digitset to delay the nitrous at the hit.
Yeah the digisets work nicely
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 02:26 AM
Quote:
Oh I thought you had both fronts available. I would still go rears and if you start to have a wheeling problem you can bandaid it with front end limiters. They are easy to build on a bodies. You can use a digitset to delay the nitrous at the hit.
If you notice in my picture, my front tires dont fall very much. I have huge poly bushings in there for less front end travel. Maybe that is why it doesnt lift the tires higher then it does. I do know that my car makes the trip down the track almost every time. I am of the same opinion as quicktree I just wanted to hear what Monte or Mike had to say, Not that i dont value everyones opinion
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:01 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front
anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Posted By: CHAPPER
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:06 AM
I think I'd buy a little more gear...
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:18 AM
Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Just curious why fronts? What is your thinking behind this. If it spins at the hit on greasy track what would fronts help?
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:22 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Just curious why fronts? What is your thinking behind this. If it spins at the hit on greasy track what would fronts help?
because the 90/10s are going slam open bottom out and fall back down and unload the tires. maybe In am wrong, a little tire spin may not hurt him that much. he still has adjustment on the rear.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Just curious why fronts? What is your thinking behind this. If it spins at the hit on greasy track what would fronts help?
because the 90/10s are going slam open bottom out and fall back down and unload the tires. maybe In am wrong, a little tire spin may not hurt him that much. he still has adjustment on the rear.
My reasoning is once the 90/10 extends it stays extended. I would want a shock that settles shortly after initial launch
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:43 AM
once the shock bottoms out all weight transfer stops, instant tire spin
Posted By: D-50
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:48 AM
I have the same dilemma. I have Rancho 9 ways on the back and the Caltrac 90/10 on the front. My D50 will hook on the hit pull the wheels then spin badly. When it was hooking it would carry the tires about 45-50 ft. then the front would come down hard and unload the rears.
I am thinking about putting the stock front shocks back on it.
This is a picture of the landing.
.jpeg "8371858-landing1(Small).jpeg")
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:53 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Just curious why fronts? What is your thinking behind this. If it spins at the hit on greasy track what would fronts help?
because the 90/10s are going slam open bottom out and fall back down and unload the tires. maybe In am wrong, a little tire spin may not hurt him that much. he still has adjustment on the rear.
My reasoning is once the 90/10 extends it stays extended. I would want a shock that settles shortly after initial launch
I like that reason better. But I would tie it down more and do rears.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say Monte will say front anyway I would replace the front first if it were my car. but what do I know
Just curious why fronts? What is your thinking behind this. If it spins at the hit on greasy track what would fronts help?
because the 90/10s are going slam open bottom out and fall back down and unload the tires. maybe In am wrong, a little tire spin may not hurt him that much. he still has adjustment on the rear.
My reasoning is once the 90/10 extends it stays extended. I would want a shock that settles shortly after initial launch
I like that reason better. But I would tie it down more and do rears.
Exactly what one of my 4 second fast friends said to do
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:26 AM
I like that reason better. But I would tie it down more and do rears.
Exactly what one of my 4 second fast friends said to do
Didnt you say you have poly bushings in the front..
they can cause issues if they bind up.. how much travel
do you have
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:34 AM
Quote:
I like that reason better. But I would tie it down more and do rears.
Exactly what one of my 4 second fast friends said to do
Didnt you say you have poly bushings in the front..
they can cause issues if they bind up.. how much travel
do you have
I ment huge poly bump stops. If i said bushings, i mispoke. I also just asked a simple question and also said my car makes it down the track nearly every time with 6 year old radials although i do realize my 60 is only 1.41-42
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:46 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I like that reason better. But I would tie it down more and do rears.
Exactly what one of my 4 second fast friends said to do
Didnt you say you have poly bushings in the front..
they can cause issues if they bind up.. how much travel
do you have
I ment huge poly bump stops. If i said bushings, i mispoke. I also just asked a simple question and also said my car makes it down the track nearly every time with 6 year old radials although i do realize my 60 is only 1.41-42
Ok
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 06:12 AM
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 09:36 AM
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
BAM
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 09:38 AM
Quote:
I have the same dilemma. I have Rancho 9 ways on the back and the Caltrac 90/10 on the front. My D50 will hook on the hit pull the wheels then spin badly. When it was hooking it would carry the tires about 45-50 ft. then the front would come down hard and unload the rears.
I am thinking about putting the stock front shocks back on it.
This is a picture of the landing.
in your case you need to replace both front and back. 
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
BAM
Nothing warms my heart more than quicktree and Monte agreeing on something during the winter, then again they both live in the south
Posted By: Duner
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 03:43 PM
Quote:
I have the same dilemma. I have Rancho 9 ways on the back and the Caltrac 90/10 on the front. My D50 will hook on the hit pull the wheels then spin badly. When it was hooking it would carry the tires about 45-50 ft. then the front would come down hard and unload the rears.
I am thinking about putting the stock front shocks back on it.
This is a picture of the landing.
That's exactly what mine was doing with the Caltrac 90/10s on it. I tried some QA1 single adjustables and got it to at least not land the front tires and start spinning the rears - but I haven't got it to hook as well at the hit yet. After some review - MY problem may very well be old slicks. I'll have to buy a new set and start over.
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:48 PM
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 04:49 PM
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 07:16 PM
Quote:
I have the same dilemma. I have Rancho 9 ways on the back and the Caltrac 90/10 on the front. My D50 will hook on the hit pull the wheels then spin badly. When it was hooking it would carry the tires about 45-50 ft. then the front would come down hard and unload the rears.
I am thinking about putting the stock front shocks back on it.
This is a picture of the landing.
Stock shocks will be WORSE, much worse. You MUST control the RATE of the rise, or it tops the suspension and spins the tires.
I have seen your truck run. Fairly light, not huge power and a big tire. It dead sticks the tire and jerks the front up very quickly. Needs a better shock to control the front on launch and landing
Monte
Posted By: Cheatham
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 07:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
BAM
Santhuffs is 25mins from me and i spoke to him a while back he said the same thing, he rather see guys use a high quaility shock with travel up front and if you have to go cheap then do it on the rear shocks not the fronts
Posted By: barracuda man
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 08:14 PM
The money i have spent on the front end in the last 3 months.'Trying to get the abody notchback barracuda to hook consistent.last time out with the car i lost in the 5 round.had him .15 on the tree.car spun tires .2 in 60 ft.car did not run #.I told myself i got to fix this car.lost to a mustang. I've been eyeing the tube chassie duster $$$
Drag race Torsion bars $325
da front shocks $400
fiberglass hood $525
strange disc front brake kit $730
upper control arms $367
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 08:55 PM
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
On. Chad's car, what is the range of front end travel? I'm sure this changes but what is min and max you use on that car? Same Q for your dusty GTX when it was mopar powered 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 10:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
BAM
Nothing warms my heart more than quicktree and Monte agreeing on something during the winter, then again they both live in the south
I agree with Monte on 99.9% of everything. only thing I have never been able to convince him of is pinion angle. but im still working on that and by the way he is way more smarter than I am.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 10:31 PM
Quote:
Santhuffs...Front !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frmcxEYZNzo
very nice, thats the way my arrow is leaving now, I have Strange struts on the front and strange doulbe adjustable on the rear. would love to have santhuffs. my next shocks will be santhuffs. but the strange were much better than single adjustable .
Posted By: vc360
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/24/14 11:36 PM
Calvert fronts are rubbish. They are way too loose. Going from them to qa1 single adjustable is night and day. Can't wait to be able to put a santhuff on it.
And we have tried cheap 90/10, ce 3 ways, calverts and now qa1.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Lots of shock questions lately - 12/25/14 01:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I DON'T like 3 ways on the front of anything.........I don't care how good guys think they work. If the front doesn't work, the rear never will...........so that is my answer.........FRONTS
Monte
On. Chad's car, what is the range of front end travel? I'm sure this changes but what is min and max you use on that car? Same Q for your dusty GTX when it was mopar powered
I really don't know how much travel we have, because I don't check it. The limiters are set at the height I want the car to carry the front at the finish line. Now how much travel that results in, I don't know, because it is not really important to us. What IS important is the time during the run that I want the front stretched out. I monitor this with shock sensors and adjust accordingly. The car picks the tires up at the hit, but they don't come to full "dropout" until I want them to.
The GTX was the same.
Monte
