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Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless??

Posted By: Jeepmon

Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 04:33 PM

Is titanium valves really worth the extra $1000ish dollars?

Lets hear the pros n cons
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 05:37 PM

It depends on the intended RPM range of the motor, if you want to rev it past 8000 RPM then go with the titianum, if not don't
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 05:40 PM

Well IMO it IS worth the extra money. Saving weight in the valvetrain is always beneficial. Just my
Posted By: BJS racing

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 05:50 PM

And they sound way cooler! LOL.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 06:09 PM

On a serious race engine you'll need the Ti valves. The Ti valves are actually cheaper on a race engine since you won't have to replace valve springs as often. All depends on the cam profile and the RPM that the engine turns.
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 06:20 PM

I can appreciate that the titanium is a lighter valve, therefore you can spin the motor a little faster and it will save on valve springs.. So I guess the question I have... is spending the extra coin now really worth it, once my butt gets strapped into the seat?

Also, I was reading elsewhere that an inconel (or some super alloy) valve is recommended for the exhaust... since I'm more in favor of a bulletproof motorover squeezing out every last pony.. wouldnt I want to get a stronger/harder valve and not worry so much about breakage?
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 07:30 PM

I would spend the money on a longer stroke to keep the RPM down so I don't need Ti valves
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 07:55 PM

Quote:

I would spend the money on a longer stroke to keep the RPM down so I don't need Ti valves




Its for a B-1 original 572 motor.. anywhere from 900hp and up... spinning at no more than 7500
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 09:10 PM

Inconel valves are for turbo apps where the exhaust temps are much higher than naturally aspirated.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/28/14 10:17 PM

Depends on lift. I only spin my 514 to 7500 rpm but I'm close to .900 lift so the recommendation was to use Ti on the intakes.
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 12:22 AM

Quote:

Inconel valves are for turbo apps where the exhaust temps are much higher than naturally aspirated.




I didnt know that.. thanks
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 12:24 AM

Quote:

Depends on lift. I only spin my 514 to 7500 rpm but I'm close to .900 lift so the recommendation was to use Ti on the intakes.




We're also at .900 lift.. and after talking with my engine guy today.. He is solid on stainless steel for my application.. So I guess that means we are for sure going that route..
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 12:28 AM

Rifle drill the stems.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 12:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Depends on lift. I only spin my 514 to 7500 rpm but I'm close to .900 lift so the recommendation was to use Ti on the intakes.




We're also at .900 lift.. and after talking with my engine guy today.. He is solid on stainless steel for my application.. So I guess that means we are for sure going that route..




The main difference is, with the 2.30 valve, it is harder to control it with the heavier valve. A valve not controlled, is a bad thing so you need to run higher spring pressures. That's the trade off. I've used both and don't believe there's a performance gain, just piece of mind. I hope it runs to your satisfaction this time Don.
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 01:24 AM

Head diameter, stem diameter, valve length, ramp speed and RPM are just a few of the factors in deciding on valve material. I'm not going to say I am smarter than David Reher (I'm not) but he and I agree that Ti is the only consideration for most ANY engine of today's geometry. It's just not worth messing with steel. Today, bracket engines are using lobes that are faster then Pro Stock of only 10 years ago. You can order lobes today that are so close to PS that it is unthinkable. Yet, guys continue to try and cut corners on valves.

I wouldn't consider steel.

BTW, it's one of the few things I wholeheartedly agree with DR. Not that he cares.................
Posted By: Twostick

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 05:25 AM

What kind of lifespan does a ti valve and beryllium seat have?

Kevin
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 06:52 PM

I stopped using BC seats back in about 2005. I started using Nickel Boron (IIRC). They machine much easier. And last just as long. How long they last is hard to determine. Too many unknown factors. BUT...Ti will not last as long using CI or ANY brand of hard seat out there.
Posted By: 68roadrunner

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 08:20 PM

what about the wear on the valve face, and this hard coating they are putting on them?
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/29/14 08:45 PM

You're going to be right on border with a Stainless intake valve that is 2.300" in diameter and 11/32. I would go Ti if you are going to spin it over 7000.

Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/30/14 06:28 PM

Thanks again everyone for your info... I spoke with the engine builder again yesterday.. Straight up told him I wanted to break the bank and get the titanium valves...

He flat out rejected that idea and used that polite "In all due respect" phrase... which basically means he refuses to spend the extra money and once again said I should save the money or upgrade to better heads and then get the exotic valves..

I guess that means he doesnt like B1 Original heads... but then he's a high horsepower, heads up racer...
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/30/14 06:37 PM

Spending to much time hanging around Comp guys IN some instances when a porter gets carried away better to upgrade than continue to throw money at parts that wont make the power you want.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/30/14 07:42 PM

Quote:

Thanks again everyone for your info... I spoke with the engine builder again yesterday.. Straight up told him I wanted to break the bank and get the titanium valves...

He flat out rejected that idea and used that polite "In all due respect" phrase... which basically means he refuses to spend the extra money and once again said I should save the money or upgrade to better heads and then get the exotic valves..

I guess that means he doesnt like B1 Original heads... but then he's a high horsepower, heads up racer...




In light of that I would find a different builder It is not like you are asking him to put in plastic valves or something, he should do it the way you ask him too unless it was destructive or dis-honest and that request is neither I run into that kind of stuff at machine shops pretty often "you can't mill .030 off the deck of a 5.9 magnum block" was the last one I had to deal with, I found a shop to do it (he said the same thing but he eventually did it) and the truck is still running great a couple years later.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Advantages to Titanium vs Stainless?? - 10/30/14 08:13 PM

He does not need a new builder. He has a brutally honest one now. I am pretty sure he would rather see Don buy a new set of heads all together rather than throw more money at these. But the fact is the heads he has simply wont get where he wants to be. Sometimes the truth hurts. This is one of those times when it will just be throwing good money after bad. Finding an honest engine builder is always what's best. Not one that will do whatever you ask, just because you say, especially if it means throwing your hard earned money away. Trust me he is in very capable hands.

I would have like to have seen titanium valves but I would have also like to have seen someone else do the port work. It was done by a well known shop, but in the quest for big flow numbers I do not believe the design of the port is the best way. It took a huge cross section to achieve the numbers, not the best way. I feel somewhat responsible as I was asked about the shop used. I can tell you that I will not do it again. I think what Don needs now is a RELIABLE piece that stays together. The overall package will work well and last. May not make 950hp but it will stay together. IMO at this point that is what is important.
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