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School me on roll bars..

Posted By: 72N96RR

School me on roll bars.. - 09/22/14 10:57 PM

Im going to install one in my 63 Dodge 440..Mostly a street car but will see the track..Prolly aim for 600 HP with the Wedge going in..Is an 8 Point enough or is a 10 the smart choice?? Materials? Is Chrome Moly the acceptable choice?? Ive seen some 10 points with NHRA approved swing outs on the drivers side..Is it wise to have a swing out side bar at all?? Please school me on the above questions and additional info is greatly appreciated...

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Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/22/14 11:16 PM

First question is... what do you expect to run.. a
5 point roll bar is required to 10.0 then a cage is
required... a 8 point is a nice roll bar to stiffen
up the car... I like moly due to it being lighter
than a mild steel bar.. BUT moly HAS to be tigged
so if your paying for welding or doing it yourself
makes a big difference.. moly cost a bit more than mild
but you pay for the weight... moly is about 1/2 the
weight(steel weights the same but moly you use 1 5/8
diameter at .083 wall.. mild is 1 3/4 at .135 wall)
so you can see the difference in weight
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 12:03 AM

I would be thrilled to run 10.0- 10.5...

So an 8 point in Chrome Moly would be sufficient???

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Posted By: WHITEDART

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 12:27 AM

.if I was going to use a swing out bar I would put a seal bar.that goes right down at the bottom next to the door that will help stiffen the chassis
Posted By: dvw

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 12:31 AM

Yes a 8 point is good to 10.0. A cage will go to 8.50 if properly done and offer more safety. Dizusters 62 Plymouth has a nice bar with swing outs.The only thing I would change is moving the swing out further rearward. Although his is a 4 door so the front door is shorter.My 64 has more bars than required to go 8.50
Doug


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Posted By: dvw

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 12:32 AM

Different angle

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Posted By: GY3

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 12:48 AM

Nice car!

Love the paint color.

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Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 01:26 AM

Quote:

I would be thrilled to run 10.0- 10.5...

So an 8 point in Chrome Moly would be sufficient???



Yes it would be
Posted By: Dartin

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 01:41 AM

Just my opinion, but it sure is easier to do the halo and "A"pillar bars now. If you think the car will run 10.50-10.0 now, I would do a 10 point that will cert to 8.50 now and be done with it. Odds are you will be bitten by the et bug and will want to go faster. Do it once and have no regrets.


Randy
Posted By: tubtar

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 04:17 AM

I think the sill bar is mandatory for a cage.
I ordered mine through Art Morrison and went with the rear bars that drop through the package tray to keep the back seat.
It fit really well , but you will have to be pretty small and nimble to get in back.
I went with mild steel so I could weld it myself , but I was more worried about money than weight.
Posted By: tubtar

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 04:18 AM

Quote:

Just my opinion, but it sure is easier to do the halo and "A"pillar bars now. If you think the car will run 10.50-10.0 now, I would do a 10 point that will cert to 8.50 now and be done with it. Odds are you will be bitten by the et bug and will want to go faster. Do it once and have no regrets.


Randy



Quoted for truth.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 04:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Just my opinion, but it sure is easier to do the halo and "A"pillar bars now. If you think the car will run 10.50-10.0 now, I would do a 10 point that will cert to 8.50 now and be done with it. Odds are you will be bitten by the et bug and will want to go faster. Do it once and have no regrets.


Randy



Quoted for truth.



Just my opinion on this.. but I had a lot more fun
when I was running 10s.. no hassle for the cert and
the safety equipment and the license stuff... all
that cost money and it seemed like something was running
out all the time
Posted By: 68shifter

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 04:33 AM

A roll bar must be 1-3/4 moly or steel. If you go to a cage then you can go 1-5/8. That's one of the tough things about a bar now/cage later. Your not giving up a ton of weight, but if a tech inspector got picky

Go to 20:18
http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/General_Regulations.pdf
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/23/14 04:52 AM

Quote:

A roll bar must be 1-3/4 moly or steel. If you go to a cage then you can go 1-5/8. That's one of the tough things about a bar now/cage later. Your not giving up a ton of weight, but if a tech inspector got picky

Go to 20:18
http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/General_Regulations.pdf



That true about the bar so I guess if you want a cage
even in the future, do it now and IMO go moly.. if
he were to sell it it would hold value... I have a
full moly chassis in my Rampage but I'm not gonna
go in the 9s so I wont cert it
Posted By: 383man

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/24/14 05:04 AM

I use an S & W kit on my 63 Sport Fury as its a 6 point bar. Since mine is mostly a street car I did not want a full cage and I did not want the swingout bar as the bar does help stiffen the car along with the frame connectors. I am good to 10.0's as I just wanted to get in the 10's with my street car. Ron

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/24/14 05:54 AM

I have a mild steel 6-point but wish I would of caged it since I`m in the 9`s and get the boot but like Mike said, 10`s is way less expensive and much less safety gear is needed..............
Posted By: Crizila

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/24/14 10:24 AM

Quote:

.if I was going to use a swing out bar I would put a seal bar.that goes right down at the bottom next to the door that will help stiffen the chassis

What I did. Made a big difference. No more wrinkles in my rear fenders, with or without the swing out bar.

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Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/24/14 02:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

.if I was going to use a swing out bar I would put a seal bar.that goes right down at the bottom next to the door that will help stiffen the chassis

What I did. Made a big difference. No more wrinkles in my rear fenders, with or without the swing out bar.


This design provides protection for driver and stiffens the back none for the front.
Put the x bar in and run a bar to the front rail then the front won't flex where all the weight is, why stop half way? Are you just trying to pass tech or making a stiff car? To the poster,A roll bar helps on roll over a complete cage makes a tunable race car. Big decision, i would do a six point with swing out side bar thats removable. Gets old climbing over that side bar with time.
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/26/14 02:40 AM

Going to keep myself in check as well as my budget..Ten second car is enough for me..I don't want the hassle of recerts and constant upgrades or part breakage..Im looking at a standard 8 point with the side bar at a lowered level for easier entry..
Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/26/14 07:27 PM

We over built mine with safety in mind for me & I also will not have to upgrade anything as the budget allows for more power & speed. It is certed for 7:50's now.

Chromoly is the way to go for re-sale. It will be much easier to sell if you ever have to with a chromoly roll bar or cage.

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Posted By: Crizila

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/26/14 09:47 PM

Quote:

Going to keep myself in check as well as my budget..Ten second car is enough for me..I don't want the hassle of recerts and constant upgrades or part breakage..Im looking at a standard 8 point with the side bar at a lowered level for easier entry..

Be careful about making the side bar too low. Rules state " cross bar must be installed no more than 4" below, and not above, the drivers shoulders, or to the side bar." "Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and the elbow."
Posted By: justinp61

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/27/14 12:03 AM

Quote:

I use an S & W kit on my 63 Sport Fury as its a 6 point bar. Since mine is mostly a street car I did not want a full cage and I did not want the swingout bar as the bar does help stiffen the car along with the frame connectors. I am good to 10.0's as I just wanted to get in the 10's with my street car. Ron



Same here, S & W kit in my Dart. Fit up nice.
Posted By: dizuster

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/27/14 12:33 AM

Just to clarify a few lingering things in this post.

1) You don't need a rocker/sill bar in a cage unless you have cut out more then 2sq ft of the original floor.

2) You can add 1 5/8" to a 1 3/4" existing roll bar. I just clarified that this year with NHRA.
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/27/14 04:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I use an S & W kit on my 63 Sport Fury as its a 6 point bar. Since mine is mostly a street car I did not want a full cage and I did not want the swingout bar as the bar does help stiffen the car along with the frame connectors. I am good to 10.0's as I just wanted to get in the 10's with my street car. Ron



Same here, S & W kit in my Dart. Fit up nice.



Great information from all of you thank you very much..What kind of cash will it cost for a standard 8 point chrome moly set up..??
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/27/14 02:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Just my opinion, but it sure is easier to do the halo and "A"pillar bars now. If you think the car will run 10.50-10.0 now, I would do a 10 point that will cert to 8.50 now and be done with it. Odds are you will be bitten by the et bug and will want to go faster. Do it once and have no regrets.


Randy



Quoted for truth.



Just my opinion on this.. but I had a lot more fun
when I was running 10s.. no hassle for the cert and
the safety equipment and the license stuff... all
that cost money and it seemed like something was running
out all the time




Quoted for truth, something all ways needs a new cert or some money thrown at it!!
Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/27/14 02:36 PM

Quote:

Just to clarify a few lingering things in this post.

1) You don't need a rocker/sill bar in a cage unless you have cut out more then 2sq ft of the original floor.

2) You can add 1 5/8" to a 1 3/4" existing roll bar. I just clarified that this year with NHRA.



This is true but my friend has a 6 point in moly that is 1 5/8 and has never had a problem at tech with any track. I have personally seen it go through 4 different tracks tech. Remember you are installing this for your own safety.
Posted By: 383man

Re: School me on roll bars.. - 09/29/14 04:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I use an S & W kit on my 63 Sport Fury as its a 6 point bar. Since mine is mostly a street car I did not want a full cage and I did not want the swingout bar as the bar does help stiffen the car along with the frame connectors. I am good to 10.0's as I just wanted to get in the 10's with my street car. Ron



Same here, S & W kit in my Dart. Fit up nice.



Great information from all of you thank you very much..What kind of cash will it cost for a standard 8 point chrome moly set up..??




The 8 point is the same as my 6 point as it has the 2 bars from the center floor hump to the bar that goes from side to side behind the seat. My 6 point does not have them 2 bars. I cant remember just what I paid for my kit but I believe you can get the S & W 8 point kit for under $300 as I think I paid about $225 with shipping in 2005. Course I installed my rollbar myself so I did not have to spend any money on installation as I dont know if you plan to put yours in yourself ? Good luck , Ron
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