Attn Steff

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Now before the complaining starts........anybody who knows where a 600" Mopar wedge is, that will make 1200hp in nitrous ready trim and swallow about 1000hp worth of nitrous and stay in one piece........feel free to point me in the direction of that motor and I will also supply you with my paypal for you to deposit the 40-50k it will require to obtain said "bigfoot" motor. I call that motor "bigfoot" because many claim it exists, yet nobody has seen it or seem to know where it is..........LOL!!!

Perhaps I'm wrong but, other than the 700+ CI stuff making 1200 in NOS trim, I don't think it's possible. I know lot's of people like to tout HP numbers like that, but when the rubber meets the road, it doesn't pan out with something that is able to take 500 HP of NOS, much less a 1000 HP. Good luck with your quest! These are the posts that are interesting to me.

While I appreciate what Monte has done and all the knowledge he shares if it all boils down to you can't do that with a Mopar there is a reason for that. It's because no one wants to put forth the effort, time or money to do it. With the plethoria of BBC and SBF stuff out there there isn't any reason for the aftermarket to support the Mopar stuff. Blame who you want but it's simple economics.

To each their own and everyone has their goals but either way if I have to have a BBC, a Turbo 400 and a 9" Ford to win races I'll find another way to do it or another field to play in because my pockets aren't that deep and I just don't care to run the same stuff everyone else has.

I'm not knocking you Monte, you have accomplished a lot, with the Mopar stuff as well and showed a lot of us just what it is capable of of. I just wish you or someone would continue to develop that. The reason "Bigfoot" doesn't exist is because once guys like you reach a certain level you see what the Chevy and Ford boys are doing and what they have to work with and you just give up. If you can't beat them, join them.

Best of luck to you, it's your life but I understand how others can get aggravated with the Chevy this, Ford that posts.

This is where you are wrong. The motor I have sitting in the floor, makes 1180 HP in nitrous trim and has had 1000hp worth of nitrous pumped through it countless times. The point was, direct me to the Mopar wedge that can produce the same numbers......it simply does NOT exist. Also it is not that there are not racers who would run such parts......it is simply that the parts don't exist to do it with. I can't buy something that isn't made. You can't give up on something that never was.

A HEMI is out of the question, because they are NOT a very nitrous friendly combo. Even the Sonny's "Chemi" is not a nitrous friendly combo. For nitrous you need a wedge type head, period, end of story. So moving back to the Mopar side of things, exactly what parts would you suggest to get the job done? The answer again is they don't exist. The BEST, I mean the absolute BEST wedge head you can get for a wedge Mopar is the TS and that is light years behind current other brand technology. Not to mention the fact that to do a TS motor RIGHT, requires a serious outlay of cash, as parts are non existent which means lots of custom stuff. Then we have the bore limits of the Mopar at 4.800 bore space. 4.560 is the MAX and leaves no room between cylinders when punched that big...........Now you CAN get the TS heads in a 4.840 bore space, that's what mine are, but then what block you going to put them on?...........My small cube TS motor I was putting together is a custom Donovan block, that was ordered with the "Wayne County" bolt pattern for the 4.840 TS heads. It was ordered with a blank lifter bore and then sent to LSM for a custom billet cam and to put the lifter bores in the block where they needed to be for proper geometry. No intake on earth for this, so we took a Big Chief Chevy, cut it in 4 pieces and "made" an intake.......So why not put this motor in the car is the obvious question some will ask. The answer is that it is TOO small. At the time I started it, super street rules were weight per cubic inch. I calculated what I thought I could make the car weigh and built the motor to fit. The motor was going to be 421 inches, so the block was custom ordered with a 9.200 deck height. You can't get stroke in that deck height, so basically that motor is useless at this point, other than a neat conversation piece. I am having some deck spacers made for it to bump it to a 10.2 deck, but as stated earlier, that will require an all new rotating assy as well as another custom, one off $1200 cam shaft and another intake..........So you can't say I am "giving up" on the Mopar, but I also ain't made of money and the Chevy is in the floor, fresh, free and ready to go. Now maybe if we make some money with the thing, I can finish the TS motor. But I KNOW at BEST, it will be over 100hp down of the Chevy, because the heads are simply NOT as good and can't be made so within the existing castings.

Somebody else mentioned duplicating the combo that WAS in the car and make it go the 5.0s and 7.80s I said I thought it would go.......Why? To what purpose? Just to say I have the fastest 446" single fogger, B-1 Mopar. Yeah, that claim and 10 cents would get me a stick of gum. For what we want to do, it needs to be FAST and 5.0s ain't fast these days.

Monte

A Gen 3 hemi went over 200 mph

I would rather see you with mopar power.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 06:53 PM

One VERY important thing is being overlooked here.....we DON'T RACE DYNO's. That is just a number on a piece of paper, that can be obtained solely at the discretion of the guy calibrating the dyno. Ever notice how many times you tell an engine builder that you would LIKE to make so and so horsepower, that you get a dyno sheet that just squeaks in over that number, funny how that works.

Now, as far as Digby's motor, it is a fine piece and makes good power. But also as ALL Mopar motors are, it is bore limited because of the bore space. Another fact.....when the Predator head was designed, they basically took a Pro-Filer GM head and figured out how to make it fit a Mopar engine and bolt on. So for all intents and purposes, a Predator motor is a smaller bore motor, with 10 year old head technology and you would expect that to keep up inch for inch with the latest GM offerings, yet on a smaller bore...........well OK, if you say so.

I know for a fact that Digby's motor, to swallow REALLY large doses of nitrous, needs some help. It has too much compression, the wrong camshaft, the quench is too tight and the heads need some chamber and short turn work. It was built with the intention of making as much N/A power as they could and spray it a little bit. It has already proven to be VERY timing sensitive to the fairly small amount they ever hit it with. The guy that drives and tunes the car, was talking with me about it on a regular basis.

The other motor I am speaking about in this thread, if you want to go by HP numbers from various dynos, is about 30hp behind Digby's..........BUT, was built 100% to spray hard. It has low compression, a monster camshaft, loose quench, the heads done right, heavy pistons and everything else a large dose nitrous motor needs. I can run as much timing in this motor on 3 kits as they were able to get by on ONE with Jason's motor...............And the NUMBER 1 FACT, this motor has been 4.40s @ 163mph in a 2900lb car numerous times and we don't hurt it. It comes apart at 60 passes for rods and rings and other than that, is trouble free.

Monte

Posted By: andy3965

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 07:48 PM

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One VERY important thing is being overlooked here.....we DON'T RACE DYNO's. That is just a number on a piece of paper, that can be obtained solely at the discretion of the guy calibrating the dyno. Ever notice how many times you tell an engine builder that you would LIKE to make so and so horsepower, that you get a dyno sheet that just squeaks in over that number, funny how that works.

Now, as far as Digby's motor, it is a fine piece and makes good power. But also as ALL Mopar motors are, it is bore limited because of the bore space. Another fact.....when the Predator head was designed, they basically took a Pro-Filer GM head and figured out how to make it fit a Mopar engine and bolt on. So for all intents and purposes, a Predator motor is a smaller bore motor, with 10 year old head technology and you would expect that to keep up inch for inch with the latest GM offerings, yet on a smaller bore...........well OK, if you say so.

I know for a fact that Digby's motor, to swallow REALLY large doses of nitrous, needs some help. It has too much compression, the wrong camshaft, the quench is too tight and the heads need some chamber and short turn work. It was built with the intention of making as much N/A power as they could and spray it a little bit. It has already proven to be VERY timing sensitive to the fairly small amount they ever hit it with. The guy that drives and tunes the car, was talking with me about it on a regular basis.

The other motor I am speaking about in this thread, if you want to go by HP numbers from various dynos, is about 30hp behind Digby's..........BUT, was built 100% to spray hard. It has low compression, a monster camshaft, loose quench, the heads done right, heavy pistons and everything else a large dose nitrous motor needs. I can run as much timing in this motor on 3 kits as they were able to get by on ONE with Jason's motor...............And the NUMBER 1 FACT, this motor has been 4.40s @ 163mph in a 2900lb car numerous times and we don't hurt it. It comes apart at 60 passes for rods and rings and other than that, is trouble free.

Monte

I dont know all the technical stuff that you guys know about these big builds, Im just a smallblock bracket racer.

Monte, Jason is either 3350 or 3250 lbs for the leafspring class, do you think that with the changes you mentioned and getting down in weight that this could be a viable combo? I understand its limited on bore space and probably never be good enough for what you want to do, but how good do you think it could be with the changes you mentioned? Or would the changes that you'd make reduce the HP amount so much that it would hurt the overall performance to much to make it a viable combo?

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 08:54 PM

Being a Bracket Racer like you while I may not can answer your question as good as Monte,but I might can answer it better in Bracket Racing terms.
When you build a NOS engine like Monte says you use less camshaft & CR and therefore it makes less Horse-Power than an all out NA engine,but you can Safely Spray more NOS to it.Which ends up making more hp on NOS than the NA built engine will make on NOS!

PS the question of price on them two engines was an unfair question,I already knew the answer!

Posted By: andy3965

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 09:06 PM

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Being a Bracket Racer like you while I may not can answer your question as good as Monte,but I might can answer it better in Bracket Racing terms.
When you build a NOS engine like Monte says you use less camshaft & CR and therefore it makes less Horse-Power than an all out NA engine,but you can Safely Spray more NOS to it.Which ends up making more hp on NOS than the NA built engine will make on NOS!

PS the question of price on them two engines was an unfair question,I already knew the answer!

I understand what you are saying, I'm wondering how it would do built for NOS like Monte describes

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 09:16 PM

So do tell. How much Horsepower does it take to get a it two weeks ago. Predator headed TS car belonging to a friend of mine. It was built with the intention of spraying said motor with a 500 hit eventually. Just dont take that out here to get in. While I agree that is not 3 stages and 1000+ the motor seems to run fairly well for a Predator. He did hit it with a 150 shot, added the required 150lbs(2450 min) and went 6.96. He had the motor built for the larger hit in case he wanted to travel to the Midwest to race. He prefers to be at the top side of the ladder and it would likely take that much to do it.

Having said that believe me I understand the limitations. Bore is HP, period!! I am in the middle of my Predator build now and will be happy to see 1200 anything. We are already making plans to change a lot of stuff in it next time. But being anew aluminum block we just want to get some data and see how it works before we make any changes.

It is REALLY hard to quantify the small tire stuff for sure. Some folks are flat out better at getting that power down to the ground than others. Most all are killing a lot of power down low and applying it later down track. That will have an affect on ultimate ET's and speed. The sooner you pour all you have at it the quicker and faster you you will be. If you are struggling to get it downtrack makes sense to put in what you can to get it down the track. Just saying when it comes to dyno numbers on small tire cars going this fast getting it to the ground is the most important factor IMO.

Posted By: Gary Robbins

Re: Attn Steff - 08/07/14 11:53 PM

Monte,
Knowing that all combos will be different...What is your preferred comp ratio and quench if you don't mind saying...Thanks Gary !

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 02:34 AM

Doesn't Indy and KB make 4.84 blocks.??

Chris..

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 03:42 AM

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So do tell. How much Horsepower does it take to get a it two weeks ago. Predator headed TS car belonging to a friend of mine. It was built with the intention of spraying said motor with a 500 hit eventually. Just dont take that out here to get in. While I agree that is not 3 stages and 1000+ the motor seems to run fairly well for a Predator. He did hit it with a 150 shot, added the required 150lbs(2450 min) and went 6.96. He had the motor built for the larger hit in case he wanted to travel to the Midwest to race. He prefers to be at the top side of the ladder and it would likely take that much to do it.

Having said that believe me I understand the limitations. Bore is HP, period!! I am in the middle of my Predator build now and will be happy to see 1200 anything. We are already making plans to change a lot of stuff in it next time. But being anew aluminum block we just want to get some data and see how it works before we make any changes.

It is REALLY hard to quantify the small tire stuff for sure. Some folks are flat out better at getting that power down to the ground than others. Most all are killing a lot of power down low and applying it later down track. That will have an affect on ultimate ET's and speed. The sooner you pour all you have at it the quicker and faster you you will be. If you are struggling to get it downtrack makes sense to put in what you can to get it down the track. Just saying when it comes to dyno numbers on small tire cars going this fast getting it to the ground is the most important factor IMO.

This is all true Al, but mph for a given car weight, does not lie as to what it takes power wise, to push a certain car to a certain speed. It mostly makes me laugh when I hear guys at the track touting all these big HP numbers their motors supposedly made on the dynos, yet guys with WAY less power are wearing them out on a regular basis. Either there are a TON of really bad tuners out there, or a TON of "happy" dynos. In my own experiences, I vote for the latter.

Digby's motor could be made lots more nitrous friendly, with some changes and he knows that..........BUT, at the end of the day, the limited bore size will NEVER let the Mopar head breathe like the GM head on a bigger bore will. It's just simple physics. You CAN'T pass more through a smaller hole. This coupled to the fact that GM head development is an ongoing thing and the Mopar stuff is dead in the water, will only make the gap bigger and bigger in the future. I feel the Predator, while a GOOD head, is likely as good right now as it can ever be given the bore limits andthere seems to be a new and better off brand head nearly every day. You can NOT fight progress with 20 year old designs

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 03:52 AM

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Monte,
Knowing that all combos will be different...What is your preferred comp ratio and quench if you don't mind saying...Thanks Gary !

Many factors come into play on that Gary, but assuming we are building an "all out" nitrous motor, that will see in excess of 600hp for a small block or 800+ on a big block, I do have some numbers I shoot for. I don't like more than 13.5 or so on compression for any combo. Chad's 632 only has 12.2 and runs like a raped ape on the spray, but a little more would probably help it. The 738 is close to 14.1..............Quench is tricky, because the head comes into play, but on most small blocks I will want .080 at an absolute min, but prefer closer to .100. Most 600" or so big motors in the .100 range and our 738 has .140. More stroke, usually means you need more quench distance to make it happy. As far as camshafts go.......Billy said smaller, that is NOT the way I go. Most of the nitrous motors I do have absolute MONSTER camshafts in them. To use a lot of nitrous, you have to get it in and out of the motor, hence I do some big stuff. I have small block cams approaching an inch of lift and many BB cams over that by a good bit. LOTS of duration at .050 and wide LSA numbers. The CAMSHAFT is where 9 of 10 guys miss the setup on a nitrous motor

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:03 AM

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Doesn't Indy and KB make 4.84 blocks.??

Chris..

What head you gonna put on that. An INDY 600-13?...........that ain't gonna get it done. NOW if they develop a NEW Predator casting for a 4.840 bore center, we might have something going, but I doubt that is EVER going to happen. Just not enough market share to warrant the development cost

Monte

Posted By: John Burdine

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:06 AM

what car is Digby?

Posted By: a493demon

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:13 AM

Attached picture 8233352-10342414_739603359436745_3542715604676279865_n.jpg

Posted By: andy3965

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:23 AM

Pics I took at South Georgia and Holly Springs

Attached picture 8233366-image.jpg

Posted By: andy3965

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:25 AM

Jason driving the 4-wheeler

Attached picture 8233368-image.jpg

Posted By: andy3965

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:26 AM

One more

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:40 AM

Most likely a dumb question......
Has anyone built a 99 motor with spraying it in mind? To much rpm's needed?
Is that even a sensible platform

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:42 AM

After reading all this......I'm getting depressed, never realized how much bb mopars suck......lmao !

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:45 AM

Many Mopar guys want to label me a Mopar hater and that is FAR from the truth. I LOVE Mopar but am also a racer and mostly a "realist". And the simple truth remains in a realistic situation of parts, we are way behind being able to compete on an inch per inch hp basis in most situations. Now, could I build a screw blown HEMI or a twin turbo HEMI and have just as good of a chance as anyone else regardless of brand.........yes I could. But that is not what I WANT to do. If I wanted a boosted combo, I would have one. None of the OTHER brands are limited to ONE single combo that could compete, so why do I have to be. Same as if I was running an N/A class that say had a 632in limit and allowed any cylinder head. As a Mopar guy, you are out. At the absolute BEST you could be given those rules, you will be 150+ HP down to the best Chevy and Ford combos. So why in the world would I be willing to go out and beat my head against the wall, knowing I can't compete, but possibly being able to say I have the "fastest 632 N/A Mopar"..........yeah, that gains me a lot of satisfaction. I like to WIN.

I realize most of my arguments fall on deaf ears, because the percentage of Mopar guys who choose to race in a "heads-up" class is very small, so the lack of HP making parts is a moot point. It simply doesn't matter to most who are die hard brand loyal, because most are looking to go as fast as THEY can, not faster than everyone else..........So just because I choose to be a heads up racer and constantly lament the fact that I can't get the parts to compete on a heads up level makes me NO LESS of a Mopar guy than anyone else, just a different TYPE Mopar guy. While having the "fastest Mopar" so and so may appeal to some, it doesn't to me. I don't find much solice in this "moral" victory and "everybody gets a ribbon" society we live in today. I want to win in my chosen class and crush the other guy while doing it, regardless of the brand he drives. This is the reason I ran very little of the KOS stuff when it was going good. I think I was number one qualifier at every KOS race I ran by a good margin, yet was just a top half car at NMCA or HOT ROD events. I always wanted to race the best of the best, not just the best of my brand. Brian Hicks was the same way and we both felt the same way about that. He flew the Mopar colors with the Chicago "Wise Guys" and I did the best I could with the NMCA and Hot Rod crowds. We were both very proud that we had two of the fastest small tire Mopars on the planet, but both wanted more. Nothing wrong with that.

Monte

Posted By: 105630

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 04:54 AM

If they are not heads up racers Monte ,they can never understand what you are saying.Good luck with the GTX ,will be nice seeing it back out.

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 05:00 AM

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Many Mopar guys want to label me a Mopar hater and that is FAR from the truth. I LOVE Mopar but am also a racer and mostly a "realist". And the simple truth remains in a realistic situation of parts, we are way behind being able to compete on an inch per inch hp basis in most situations. Now, could I build a screw blown HEMI or a twin turbo HEMI and have just as good of a chance as anyone else regardless of brand.........yes I could. But that is not what I WANT to do. If I wanted a boosted combo, I would have one. None of the OTHER brands are limited to ONE single combo that could compete, so why do I have to be. Same as if I was running an N/A class that say had a 632in limit and allowed any cylinder head. As a Mopar guy, you are out. At the absolute BEST you could be given those rules, you will be 150+ HP down to the best Chevy and Ford combos. So why in the world would I be willing to go out and beat my head against the wall, knowing I can't compete, but possibly being able to say I have the "fastest 632 N/A Mopar"..........yeah, that gains me a lot of satisfaction. I like to WIN.

I realize most of my arguments fall on deaf ears, because the percentage of Mopar guys who choose to race in a "heads-up" class is very small, so the lack of HP making parts is a moot point. It simply doesn't matter to most who are die hard brand loyal, because most are looking to go as fast as THEY can, not faster than everyone else..........So just because I choose to be a heads up racer and constantly lament the fact that I can't get the parts to compete on a heads up level makes me NO LESS of a Mopar guy than anyone else, just a different TYPE Mopar guy. While having the "fastest Mopar" so and so may appeal to some, it doesn't to me. I don't find much solice in this "moral" victory and "everybody gets a ribbon" society we live in today. I want to win in my chosen class and crush the other guy while doing it, regardless of the brand he drives. This is the reason I ran very little of the KOS stuff when it was going good. I think I was number one qualifier at every KOS race I ran by a good margin, yet was just a top half car at NMCA or HOT ROD events. I always wanted to race the best of the best, not just the best of my brand. Brian Hicks was the same way and we both felt the same way about that. He flew the Mopar colors with the Chicago "Wise Guys" and I did the best I could with the NMCA and Hot Rod crowds. We were both very proud that we had two of the fastest small tire Mopars on the planet, but both wanted more. Nothing wrong with that.

Monte

No one on here cares......lol

They all still purple shafts and Dana 60.....

What about ultra street ? Think a mopar can compete? The pontiacs seem to be doing ok

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 05:47 AM

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Many Mopar guys want to label me a Mopar hater and that is FAR from the truth. I LOVE Mopar but am also a racer and mostly a "realist". And the simple truth remains in a realistic situation of parts, we are way behind being able to compete on an inch per inch hp basis in most situations. Now, could I build a screw blown HEMI or a twin turbo HEMI and have just as good of a chance as anyone else regardless of brand.........yes I could. But that is not what I WANT to do. If I wanted a boosted combo, I would have one. None of the OTHER brands are limited to ONE single combo that could compete, so why do I have to be. Same as if I was running an N/A class that say had a 632in limit and allowed any cylinder head. As a Mopar guy, you are out. At the absolute BEST you could be given those rules, you will be 150+ HP down to the best Chevy and Ford combos. So why in the world would I be willing to go out and beat my head against the wall, knowing I can't compete, but possibly being able to say I have the "fastest 632 N/A Mopar"..........yeah, that gains me a lot of satisfaction. I like to WIN.

I realize most of my arguments fall on deaf ears, because the percentage of Mopar guys who choose to race in a "heads-up" class is very small, so the lack of HP making parts is a moot point. It simply doesn't matter to most who are die hard brand loyal, because most are looking to go as fast as THEY can, not faster than everyone else..........So just because I choose to be a heads up racer and constantly lament the fact that I can't get the parts to compete on a heads up level makes me NO LESS of a Mopar guy than anyone else, just a different TYPE Mopar guy. While having the "fastest Mopar" so and so may appeal to some, it doesn't to me. I don't find much solice in this "moral" victory and "everybody gets a ribbon" society we live in today. I want to win in my chosen class and crush the other guy while doing it, regardless of the brand he drives. This is the reason I ran very little of the KOS stuff when it was going good. I think I was number one qualifier at every KOS race I ran by a good margin, yet was just a top half car at NMCA or HOT ROD events. I always wanted to race the best of the best, not just the best of my brand. Brian Hicks was the same way and we both felt the same way about that. He flew the Mopar colors with the Chicago "Wise Guys" and I did the best I could with the NMCA and Hot Rod crowds. We were both very proud that we had two of the fastest small tire Mopars on the planet, but both wanted more. Nothing wrong with that.

Monte

No one on here cares......lol

They all still purple shafts and Dana 60.....

What about ultra street ? Think a mopar can compete? The pontiacs seem to be doing ok

I think so...........I mean my 446 B-1 MC combo went teens and .20s 15 years ago, with a bad engine combo and a crappy nitrous tune in a single fogger. I had really good heads, but some new PSOs on a bigger shortblock and a sharp plate tune would make a lot more power than I did then. My car did work good and was going teen 60fts. That was the only reason it was as fast as it was. My stock block 451 INDY motor went 5.30s on the fogger before that.

Monte

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 05:54 AM

From my experience with a 99 I don't think you are going to see anyone spraying one successfully anytime soon. The biggest issue is the blocks. Or lack there of a decent piece readily available for any sorted of boosted deal. There is one that runs with Turbos very well. Well it is a Mirror Ford but Steve Matusek has had some success with it.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 05:57 AM

Monte I do get it with MPH. I also agree lots of happy dynos in the world. But if you are having issues applying the power to the track that the desperity will be greater in the 1/8 than the 1/4 in terms of MPH. If you cannot lay the wood to it till 330' out it will not MPH as it should or could. All I was trying to say. My old Barracuda was a good example. We sucked at the short track even MPH was slow. But stretch out the length of the track and we ran MPH with the top cars. We were very fast from 330 on but sucked in the important part of the track from 0-330'.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 06:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Many Mopar guys want to label me a Mopar hater and that is FAR from the truth. I LOVE Mopar but am also a racer and mostly a "realist". And the simple truth remains in a realistic situation of parts, we are way behind being able to compete on an inch per inch hp basis in most situations. Now, could I build a screw blown HEMI or a twin turbo HEMI and have just as good of a chance as anyone else regardless of brand.........yes I could. But that is not what I WANT to do. If I wanted a boosted combo, I would have one. None of the OTHER brands are limited to ONE single combo that could compete, so why do I have to be. Same as if I was running an N/A class that say had a 632in limit and allowed any cylinder head. As a Mopar guy, you are out. At the absolute BEST you could be given those rules, you will be 150+ HP down to the best Chevy and Ford combos. So why in the world would I be willing to go out and beat my head against the wall, knowing I can't compete, but possibly being able to say I have the "fastest 632 N/A Mopar"..........yeah, that gains me a lot of satisfaction. I like to WIN.

I realize most of my arguments fall on deaf ears, because the percentage of Mopar guys who choose to race in a "heads-up" class is very small, so the lack of HP making parts is a moot point. It simply doesn't matter to most who are die hard brand loyal, because most are looking to go as fast as THEY can, not faster than everyone else..........So just because I choose to be a heads up racer and constantly lament the fact that I can't get the parts to compete on a heads up level makes me NO LESS of a Mopar guy than anyone else, just a different TYPE Mopar guy. While having the "fastest Mopar" so and so may appeal to some, it doesn't to me. I don't find much solice in this "moral" victory and "everybody gets a ribbon" society we live in today. I want to win in my chosen class and crush the other guy while doing it, regardless of the brand he drives. This is the reason I ran very little of the KOS stuff when it was going good. I think I was number one qualifier at every KOS race I ran by a good margin, yet was just a top half car at NMCA or HOT ROD events. I always wanted to race the best of the best, not just the best of my brand. Brian Hicks was the same way and we both felt the same way about that. He flew the Mopar colors with the Chicago "Wise Guys" and I did the best I could with the NMCA and Hot Rod crowds. We were both very proud that we had two of the fastest small tire Mopars on the planet, but both wanted more. Nothing wrong with that.

Monte

No one on here cares......lol

They all still purple shafts and Dana 60.....

What about ultra street ? Think a mopar can compete? The pontiacs seem to be doing ok

And then the insults start.

The money that fast guys spend is off the spectrum for most of us.

We all want to cheer, route, nutswing or whatever you want to call it so having a brilliant guy like Monte in our court is something we wish he could go out and make the rest of us broke jokes proud for him. He just happens to make his living off nitrous, sucks for us.

Btw, i painted my cam in my gen 3 hemi purple before i slid it in

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 07:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Doesn't Indy and KB make 4.84 blocks.??

Chris..

What head you gonna put on that. An INDY 600-13?...........that ain't gonna get it done. NOW if they develop a NEW Predator casting for a 4.840 bore center, we might have something going, but I doubt that is EVER going to happen. Just not enough market share to warrant the development cost

Monte

Actually I was just wondering because of your TS heads. You were saying you needed a block..

I thought they made them, but was just curious because of your combo.

Don't the TS 4.84 heads flow 530-540.??

Chris..

Posted By: MattW

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 12:58 PM

So want would it take with a small block? Matt

Posted By: TrxR

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 05:23 PM

So Monte it would be possible to compete with a Turbo Hemi setup?

I totally understand what you want to do and why you are doing it and have no problems with it I'm just curious about the competitiveness of a turbo Hemi setup.

Thanks

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 06:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Monte,
Knowing that all combos will be different...What is your preferred comp ratio and quench if you don't mind saying...Thanks Gary !

Many factors come into play on that Gary, but assuming we are building an "all out" nitrous motor, that will see in excess of 600hp for a small block or 800+ on a big block, I do have some numbers I shoot for. I don't like more than 13.5 or so on compression for any combo. Chad's 632 only has 12.2 and runs like a raped ape on the spray, but a little more would probably help it. The 738 is close to 14.1..............Quench is tricky, because the head comes into play, but on most small blocks I will want .080 at an absolute min, but prefer closer to .100. Most 600" or so big motors in the .100 range and our 738 has .140. More stroke, usually means you need more quench distance to make it happy. As far as camshafts go.......Billy said smaller, that is NOT the way I go. Most of the nitrous motors I do have absolute MONSTER camshafts in them. To use a lot of nitrous, you have to get it in and out of the motor, hence I do some big stuff. I have small block cams approaching an inch of lift and many BB cams over that by a good bit. LOTS of duration at .050 and wide LSA numbers. The CAMSHAFT is where 9 of 10 guys miss the setup on a nitrous motor

Monte

Thanks Monte,for the tip on the camshaft.While I am new to NOS and still trying to learn it make sense to use an even bigger camshaft.There are some people around here(Pro Mod Racers) that build
some killer NOS engines but they go smaller/milder on the camshafts.
And they will sell you a camshaft but can bet they will share only the basics must know info. with the camshafts.But I do know they are a little milder/smaller in lift & duration.

All of us Mopar Racers need to Stop being so hard headed all of the time and pay more attention to whats being said and we just might learn something not only new but helpful.

If its something somebody is quoting from a article some where I pay very little attention to it,but if its something they have done and it works on the Drag Strip believe it or not I pay attention!

PS Speaking of article/books if someone knows of a book you can buy to study/learn about Dyno's please let me know.We buy some Big High $$$ engines some times at a reasonable price and most have their own Dyno's and are willing to show you on the Dyno their engines back up their Horse-Power claims.And I would like to be able to tell if they were set up in a "Happy" dyno mode. Dyno operators are the only people I know that try to be more secretive than Grudge Racers!

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 07:02 PM

Quote:

Many factors come into play on that Gary, but assuming we are building an "all out" nitrous motor, that will see in excess of 600hp for a small block or 800+ on a big block, I do have some numbers I shoot for. I don't like more than 13.5 or so on compression for any combo. Chad's 632 only has 12.2 and runs like a raped ape on the spray, but a little more would probably help it. The 738 is close to 14.1..............Quench is tricky, because the head comes into play, but on most small blocks I will want .080 at an absolute min, but prefer closer to .100. Most 600" or so big motors in the .100 range and our 738 has .140. More stroke, usually means you need more quench distance to make it happy. As far as camshafts go.......Billy said smaller, that is NOT the way I go. Most of the nitrous motors I do have absolute MONSTER camshafts in them. To use a lot of nitrous, you have to get it in and out of the motor, hence I do some big stuff. I have small block cams approaching an inch of lift and many BB cams over that by a good bit. LOTS of duration at .050 and wide LSA numbers. The CAMSHAFT is where 9 of 10 guys miss the setup on a nitrous motor

Monte

So want would it take with a small block? Matt

Camshafts are a big part of my business. I have probably had 50 ground this year alone. That said, I will be happy to GRIND you a cam, but if you want me to just spell out here that you need this, this and this, so that you can have one ground by someone else, sorry, I can't do that.

Can give you a few ideas though. Say you have a smallblock that you are basically putting a big block load of nitrous in. Same amount of nitrous, yet you have a smaller bore, a smaller port, smaller valves, smaller chamber, less swept volume, etc, etc, etc. So what parameters would you think you NEED in a cam? Basically we have to "trick" the motor into thinking it is bigger than it is. So we need BIG and LONG valve action to fill the cylinder. Also, small fast burn chambers are VERY aggressive, so to keep the motor from burning itself up with chamber heat, you have to open the exhaust valve VERY early to blow the cylinder down and get the heat out. But you can't open the intake late to do it. So that means wide LSA numbers. We might grind the intake on a 117 and the exhaust on a 122, which leaves us an LSA of 119.5. Overlap is also a concern, because too much hangs the valves open and blows the charge straight through the chamber.

The term "nitrous cam" is really a misnomer. There is no such thing, nor is there a such thing as a turbo cam, blower cam, or anything else. It is just the "proper" cam for the application and what you intend to do with it.

Monte

Posted By: Gary Robbins

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 07:10 PM

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Monte,
Knowing that all combos will be different...What is your preferred comp ratio and quench if you don't mind saying...Thanks Gary !

Many factors come into play on that Gary, but assuming we are building an "all out" nitrous motor, that will see in excess of 600hp for a small block or 800+ on a big block, I do have some numbers I shoot for. I don't like more than 13.5 or so on compression for any combo. Chad's 632 only has 12.2 and runs like a raped ape on the spray, but a little more would probably help it. The 738 is close to 14.1..............Quench is tricky, because the head comes into play, but on most small blocks I will want .080 at an absolute min, but prefer closer to .100. Most 600" or so big motors in the .100 range and our 738 has .140. More stroke, usually means you need more quench distance to make it happy. As far as camshafts go.......Billy said smaller, that is NOT the way I go. Most of the nitrous motors I do have absolute MONSTER camshafts in them. To use a lot of nitrous, you have to get it in and out of the motor, hence I do some big stuff. I have small block cams approaching an inch of lift and many BB cams over that by a good bit. LOTS of duration at .050 and wide LSA numbers. The CAMSHAFT is where 9 of 10 guys miss the setup on a nitrous motor

Monte

Thanks Monte,for the tip on the camshaft.While I am new to NOS and still trying to learn it make sense to use an even bigger camshaft.There are some people around here(Pro Mod Racers) that build
some killer NOS engines but they go smaller/milder on the camshafts.
And they will sell you a camshaft but can bet they will share only the basics must know info. with the camshafts.But I do know they are a little milder/smaller in lift & duration.

All of us Mopar Racers need to Stop being so hard headed all of the time and pay more attention to whats being said and we just might learn something not only new but helpful.

If its something somebody is quoting from a article some where I pay very little attention to it,but if its something they have done and it works on the Drag Strip believe it or not I pay attention!

PS Speaking of article/books if someone knows of a book you can buy to study/learn about Dyno's please let me know.We buy some Big High $$$ engines some times at a reasonable price and most have their own Dyno's and are willing to show you on the Dyno their engines back up their Horse-Power claims.And I would like to be able to tell if they were set up in a "Happy" dyno mode. Dyno operators are the only people I know that try to be more secretive than Grudge Racers!

Somebody who builds a quality race engine and somebody who builds a quality "nitrous" race engine can be two WAY different things. I was recently testing with some grudge guys in Montgomery. They had a new "nitrous" engine built by a well known fairly local guy, known for making really good power. Well the car ran like azz with the tune up I put in it, so I started asking questions about the build. The compression, the quench, the cam, the pumping pounds, etc. After getting the answers to my questions, it was obvious why it would not run. This "well known" builder had NO CLUE, what it took to make a motor really swallow large doses of nitrous and be good at it. This was a well built 632 conv headed Chevy, with the best parts money could buy. They were just the WRONG parts for what we needed to do. And while this guy had just dropped serious coin on a "new" motor, he is going to have to drop a lot more to "fix" it. It is on it's way to me now to make the needed changes, which will set him back about another 6k on top of his new motor. Moral of the story.......find the guy who knows what to do the FIRST time.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 07:23 PM

Quote:

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

Posted By: TrxR

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 08:03 PM

Do you think a large ci hemi turbo setup could be competitive if someone wanted to run that setup , or are we still to limited by the bore spacing?

Thanks

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 08:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 08:40 PM

Quote:

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

Quit stirring the crap Bill. Please. When was the last time you had anything at the track other than a jr.dragster? The last car I saw you have at a track was what...15 years ago? Some of us are actually trying to learn something here.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 08:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

Quit stirring the crap Bill. Please. When was the last time you had anything at the track other than a jr.dragster? The last car I saw you have at a track was what...15 years ago? Some of us are actually trying to learn something here.

Me Stirring....?? Ya gotta be kidding....I applaud guys like Gary Robbins....that are out there racing....I don't understand the ones that are condescendingly putting him and others down.....in a backhanded way of course....and the ones that mock the "purple shaft cam guys" and those that would even dare to run a dana....are NOT even out there racing.....Just My Opinion

and btw, I haven't seen you at a track in many many years....does that mean you haven't been ?

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 08:55 PM

Bill. You know I can't drive anymore. I had a brain hemorrhage last June. If I am lucky I will be back in it in a year or three. Up till that time I was quite active. Now carry on with your regular abuse of this thread.

Posted By: Gary Robbins

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 09:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

I do listen when people with your knowledge speak,but upper 40's and bottum 50's are not the normal in X275 anywhere that i know of...Yes it's been done,but not regularly and a 60/70 car will win his share as the guys running 50's are typically on the edge or needs the right track to put all that power down and a pretty elite small group(last Denton,Tx race won with a .59 and Tulsa with a .60)...Now I have run no where near a 60/70 anything with small pills and may never,but I feel like its possible and sure is fun being the only MOPAR at these events !!!

Staples was the #2 guy with a .061 where i was #3 with a .064 my last event with them(missed tune-up and spun 1st rnd) and hes won the last 2 races also...Nice too see another old guy getting it done !!

My combo was way off on that race also as it was our first time out with the 1.58 p/g and new PTC convertor...We left the 3.70's in the rear and new convt would only stahl 3600 & flash to 4300 along with dropping 1800 on the shift...Felt like i was dragging a boat anchor as it didn't go to high until 3.65 seconds into the run and was really shocked at the .06....have since put 3.89's in and my chance bolt together which goes 4500/5200 and only drops 800rpm at shift and just havn't had time to get it back out to see what it does !!!

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 10:00 PM

Quote:

Do you think a large ci hemi turbo setup could be competitive if someone wanted to run that setup , or are we still to limited by the bore spacing?

Thanks

You don't need huge cubes with a turbo, it's all about keeping the heads on the block, lol.

IDK why people are getting excited about a certain class, defined by a ruleset to put butts in the seats, not being dominated by Mopar.

The top classes in drag racing, fuel and alky, have nothing but mopar based designs. In fact, literally nothing else has won in the fuel classes since one year in the 60's. None of the engines have much to do with anything from an OEM, just like every other "real" race class.

Still wondering why a hemi doesn't do well with a big load of nitrous? S/F.....Ken M

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 10:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

I usually don't feed the "troll" but what does the last time I raced my own car have to do with anything. I go to the track more in a year, than you probably have in your lifetime. And not to watch. I am working and tuning cars. And WHO am I looking down on? I wish I could have raced my car all that time, but a little thing called LIFE sometimes gets in the way.........Lets see whats happened in the last few years since I raced it. Rebuilt the car and bought exotic motor parts, for a class that was done away with before I even finished it. Had a child, got a divorce, built a new house, started my own business, had quadruple bypass heart surgery, my mom died, my dad has alzheimers and I go to the track about 25 weekends a year for my job with Holley. Sorry I haven't been able to get my car out to suit you.........Now you can resume your regularly scheduled hating.

Monte

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 10:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

Thats the way we Race down here in the South,we take things to new levels and we are willing to do what ever it takes to win!Come down here and do some Big $$$ Bracket Races with us and you will understand better.Come down here and do some Grudge Racing with us and you will go home Broke!

Monte is not a Bad Guy he is just from AlaBama like myself and we are all very aggressive Racers because thats what it takes to win down in Rebel Division 2 they can take the Rebel out of it and call it the SouthEast Division,but they can't take the Rebel out of us!

While we Race each other hard we will also him each other even if its the person we are up against in the next round,unless its a Grudge Race,don't ask about that you don't wanna know!

Here to all us real Racers face it we are never gonna all agree on the same thing and get alone with each other for over a few mins. at a time.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Attn Steff - 08/08/14 10:23 PM

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While its true MOPAR'S want be competitive with wedge heads in heads up outlaw racing where bore spacing,large ci along more modern heads rule the kingdom...I have no problem being competitive when you have to run conventional heads along with standard bore spacing with a BBNOS combo in our area 275 classes...At the last 2 we attended Tex275 .036 jet limit races we qualified #3 at one and we runner upped at the other...We never feel under powered with anything else out there in our class as it usually comes down to power management along with who makes the right call...Maybe one of these days at the right race along with the right track we'll put the man pills in and see if 60's/70's are possible and if I can't do it with the B1 originals I have a new set of PSO heads setting on the shelf I've been dying to get started on,but really want to max out this combo first !!

web page

Gary I totally understand where you are coming from on the "local" level. Same around here. A local 275 race, if you have a 4.80 car, you can be a player unless a "hitter" shows up. And we know who those guys are. The ones who run 4.50s and even some .40s at the big races. I rarely say NEVER, because never is a long time.......but, while I realize that are FEW serious effort Mopar guys, to my knowledge there has not been a Mopar x275 car yet in the .70s and .40s is a LONG way from there.

That class you are running in is pretty limited to try and keep combos equal. I know one of my guys, Jim Staples runs that deal but carries a good bit of weight for his heads, which are considered really "good" conventional heads for a Chevy

And as I said earlier, some are content to be the fastest at the local track, or the fastest Mopar, or whatever, but I am just not wired that way. If I build an X275 car, I want to be able to take that car ANYWHERE and the guy in the other lane be worried about having to run me. And while chassis, power management, etc are HUGE in small tire racing, I also like to know that if both cars make a good clean hit, that I have the oats to run up front. But that's just me.

Monte

So what way are you "wired" ??
To have your car sit in the shop for 15 years ??
And look down on the people that are actually out there racing ??

Thats the way we Race down here in the South,we take things to new levels and we are willing to do what ever it takes to win!Come down here and do some Big $$$ Bracket Races with us and you will understand better.Come down here and do some Grudge Racing with us and you will go home Broke!
Monte is not a Bad Guy he is just from AlaBama like myself and we are all very aggressive Racers because thats what it takes to win down in Rebel Division 2 they can take the Rebel out of it and call it the SouthEast Division,but they can't take the Rebel out of us!
While we Race each other hard we will also him each other even if its the person we are up against in the next round,unless its a Grudge Race,don't ask about that you don't wanna know!
Here to all us real Racers face it we are never gonna all agree on the same thing and get alone with each other for over a few mins. at a time. But that does not mean we can not learn from each other.

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:10 AM

Purple shafts forever !

Don't like that.....lmfao ! Then I guess your on the right site.....

Do I race ? No not at all.......

Monte I told you before, you never learn....

Posted By: John Burdine

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:30 AM

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Purple shafts forever !

Don't like that.....lmfao ! Then I guess your on the right site.....

Do I race ? No not at all.......

Monte I told you before, you never learn....

hey, you gotta be one bad mammer camshaft to have a hit song by the Beach Boys

she's real fine..my 5-oh-9...gitty up gitty up 5-oh-9

oh snap, was 4-oh-9 or 5-oh-9.....naw... I think it was she's real fine my 5-oh-9.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:37 AM

The GTX had purple head lights........does that count.........I mean that's HARDCORE Mopar........lol!!!!

I guess I can also scratch "6 pak Runner" off my "wants a T shirt list".......

Monte

Posted By: Bigcube

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:39 AM

I just want to see it make a pass, I don't care what's under the hood!

Posted By: Ari440

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:54 AM

can you tell alittle about your 446ci B1 motor

stock block ? crank rods cam comp rpm,s

Posted By: John Burdine

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 03:59 AM

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The GTX had purple head lights........does that count.........I mean that's HARDCORE Mopar........lol!!!!

I guess I can also scratch "6 pak Runner" off my "wants a T shirt list".......

Monte

hey man... I want a tee. I even have one of your foggers on my junk...and I don't have a tee...

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 04:17 AM

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Do you think a large ci hemi turbo setup could be competitive if someone wanted to run that setup , or are we still to limited by the bore spacing?

Thanks

You don't need huge cubes with a turbo, it's all about keeping the heads on the block, lol.

IDK why people are getting excited about a certain class, defined by a ruleset to put butts in the seats, not being dominated by Mopar.

The top classes in drag racing, fuel and alky, have nothing but mopar based designs. In fact, literally nothing else has won in the fuel classes since one year in the 60's. None of the engines have much to do with anything from an OEM, just like every other "real" race class.

Still wondering why a hemi doesn't do well with a big load of nitrous? S/F.....Ken M

HEMI heads are NOT nitrous friendly, nor does that type motor have a good design for big cubes. They can flow big air, but NOT without boost to push it through there. In a big nitrous motor you need bore, not stroke. You also need as close to a flat top as you can get for a proper flame front, neither of which the HEMI has. The relatively small bore, huge knot to make compression and weight of said piston are all detriments. There is a REASON all the fastest nitrous cars on the planet run a wedge. And while the Sonny's "Chemi" rules the roost in big inch pro-stock, with it's flattened piston and chamber design, that design does NOT favor in the nitrous world........and it HAS been tried, several times.

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 04:26 AM

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can you tell alittle about your 446ci B1 motor

stock block ? crank rods cam comp rpm,s

It was a TERRIBLE combination. At the time all you could get was a tall deck mega-block and have a big bore. Or at least that was all I could afford. So it was a 4.560 bore with a 3.40 stroke and a 7.250 rod. Figure up THAT rod ratio. It was 2.13. WAY too much dwell time at TDC for a nitrous motor and still had a heavy piston to boot. The cam was a Cammotion grind that was suppose to be the ticket, but looking back was horrible. With the short stroke and small chamber B-1MCs compression was hard to get as the valve reliefs were like craters. The heads were REALLY nice and flowed big air, but the rest of the combo was crap. It was a wonder it ran like it did. Single 4 B-1 intake and a single fogger that never had bigger than a .038 jet in it. Car was 3250 and ran 8teens.

Monte

Posted By: Ari440

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 04:40 AM

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can you tell alittle about your 446ci B1 motor

stock block ? crank rods cam comp rpm,s

It was a TERRIBLE combination. At the time all you could get was a tall deck mega-block and have a big bore. Or at least that was all I could afford. So it was a 4.560 bore with a 3.40 stroke and a 7.250 rod. Figure up THAT rod ratio. It was 2.13. WAY too much dwell time at TDC for a nitrous motor and still had a heavy piston to boot. The cam was a Cammotion grind that was suppose to be the ticket, but looking back was horrible. With the short stroke and small chamber B-1MCs compression was hard to get as the valve reliefs were like craters. The heads were REALLY nice and flowed big air, but the rest of the combo was crap. It was a wonder it ran like it did. Single 4 B-1 intake and a single fogger that never had bigger than a .038 jet in it. Car was 3250 and ran 8teens.

Monte

how big where the flow numbers on those heads

also how big FLOW NUMBERS are the B1 origianls

I picked up a set of B1s how do you compare them to a set of 440-1s CNC 345s

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 04:56 AM

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Bill. You know I can't drive anymore. I had a brain hemorrhage last June. If I am lucky I will be back in it in a year or three. Up till that time I was quite active. Now carry on with your regular abuse of this thread.

Hey Ted, I realize life gets in the way and there are much more important things than cars.

I commend you for the way your car has progressed, it has evolved constantly, and you have just kept on improving it. You just keep on keeping on no matter what life has thrown at you, and always with a great attitude.

I didn't mean to "abuse" this thread, just felt there was a lot of condescending put downs to the guys that are out there racing Mopars.

Different classes favor different cars....unless you race top fuel (which still has "rules" and limits put on)....all your doing is trying to pick the combo that is favored by the rules of the class.

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 10:10 AM

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HEMI heads are NOT nitrous friendly, nor does that type motor have a good design for big cubes. They can flow big air, but NOT without boost to push it through there. In a big nitrous motor you need bore, not stroke. You also need as close to a flat top as you can get for a proper flame front, neither of which the HEMI has. The relatively small bore, huge knot to make compression and weight of said piston are all detriments. There is a REASON all the fastest nitrous cars on the planet run a wedge. And while the Sonny's "Chemi" rules the roost in big inch pro-stock, with it's flattened piston and chamber design, that design does NOT favor in the nitrous world........and it HAS been tried, several times.

Monte

Thanks for the reply.

The injected fuel guys in Top Alky seem to do OK without the boost

but I get what you're saying. S/F....Ken M

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 06:51 PM

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HEMI heads are NOT nitrous friendly, nor does that type motor have a good design for big cubes. They can flow big air, but NOT without boost to push it through there. In a big nitrous motor you need bore, not stroke. You also need as close to a flat top as you can get for a proper flame front, neither of which the HEMI has. The relatively small bore, huge knot to make compression and weight of said piston are all detriments. There is a REASON all the fastest nitrous cars on the planet run a wedge. And while the Sonny's "Chemi" rules the roost in big inch pro-stock, with it's flattened piston and chamber design, that design does NOT favor in the nitrous world........and it HAS been tried, several times.

Monte

Thanks for the reply.

The injected fuel guys in Top Alky seem to do OK without the boost but I get what you're saying. S/F....Ken M

They run NITRO........comparing that to alky is like comparing race fuel to water in terms of power. Those motors are VERY inefficient. Take that fuel away and they would be slugs.

Monte

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Attn Steff - 08/09/14 07:27 PM

The A/Fuel motors also seem to have a very narrow tuning window between rocket and wasted run. Hirata's test out at Joliet now and then, and rarely ever keep all 8 lit to 1/2 track.

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Attn Steff - 08/10/14 03:14 AM

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They run NITRO........comparing that to alky is like comparing race fuel to water in terms of power. Those motors are VERY inefficient. Take that fuel away and they would be slugs.

Monte

Sure, but the point is to get from A to B before the other guy; nothing else really matters.

A/Fuel vs blower/alky is the same old story, the rules makers trying to keep it all even and interesting to the crowds instead of just letting the tech progress and people keep up or not, with some basic safety rules. It's a business, let's not pretend any different.

All that being said, I wish you good luck. S/F....Ken M

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Attn Steff - 08/10/14 06:28 AM

Just for the record, the 4.900 B/S, TS head stuff isn't competitive, correct?

There's a guy local selling one of those. S/F....Ken M

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