Moparts

nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor?

Posted By: RapidusMaximus

nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:14 AM

So I'm about to embark on a little street car project, it will be a 75 Duster, pump gas low deck stroker. Springs will be moved in, street slicks, auto, stage 6 ported heads, Bullet hyd roller, short block isn't built yet...should I spray it or pressurize it? I have heads, intake and cam already. What do the Moparts folks think? Would like it to be an easy 10 second street car. Maybe more?...
Posted By: Bigcube

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:28 AM

IMO you could go 10's NA but will work for it with stage 6 heads/pump gas. Any power added will get you there much easier.
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:38 AM

Boost is addicting
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:40 AM

Procharger IF: money is no object

Turbo IF: You have mad fab skills

Nitrous IF: You're cash challenged

All Motor IF: You don't plan on street racing

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:47 AM

Having had nitrous on the street....I would never do it again...PITA IMHO

Blower or Turbo....But I would prefer N/A

Rickster
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:51 AM

Quote:

Procharger IF: money is no object

Turbo IF: You have mad fab skills

Nitrous IF: You're cash challenged

All Motor IF: You don't plan on street racing




great points...leaning towards spray or turbo...or all motor...of course no street racing....that's illegal....
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:59 AM

Quote:

Having had nitrous on the street....I would never do it again...PITA IMHO

Blower or Turbo....But I would prefer N/A

Rickster



I've never run n20 why is it a pita on the street?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 04:41 AM

My first question would be.. what will the total car
weigh... if its 3000# 600hp will do it.. but if its
3600# you need a few more ponies... N/A will cover it..
but if you want some extra fun then any of the power
boosters... spray is the cheapest, but boosted is always
cool... all it is is....... MONEY
Posted By: tubtar

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 05:00 AM

You have the cam and aren't sure how the motor will be done ?
I'd think that the cam choice should steer you in a specific direction here.
A cam that is optimized for N/A would not be my first choice for either boost or spray and vice versa.
The final answer still begs another question.........if you keep your wallet in your right hip pocket and don't list to the left when you sit down , I'm thinking N/A might be a nice choice.
Or a conservative spray set up.
To my way of thinking , it takes deep pockets to get a force fed motor running and deep pockets to keep a well done nitrous motor running.
Deeper than N/A anyway.
Posted By: 383man

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 05:22 AM

If your just looking for 10's then that will do it easy on all motor. If you want to get serious fast and run easy 9's then hit it with a 250 shot. Thats what I would do if I wanted a power added that way you run the motor at the track and run mid 10's. You can fool everyone and with the car and when you hit the shot mid 9's could be had. Just an idea. Ron
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 11:08 AM

Good input, thanks. Car weight will be 75 A body with glass hood, bumpers and light weight bumper mounts, all factory 5 mph bumpers and related shocks will be removed, crash bars in doors will be removed, car is a non air, flip out back window version, other than that it will be a street legal bench seat a body.
Yes, I already had the cam and I know that's backwards but its brand new, the springs are already on the heads, I've got over a grand in it so by danged I'm building around it, its a Bullet hyd roller designed for a big inch n/a stroker, don't have the card with me but its approx. 600 lift.
Nice approach 383 man...may have to pick your brain some more.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 02:24 PM

All motor will do it easily. 600 hp in that car will run mid 10s all day...and 600 hp is easily done w/ a streetable stroked BB on pump gas.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 02:46 PM

You should be able to run 10's pretty easy w/o any...however boost is by far the best way to go and possibly cheaper in the long run. You could build a 10 second motor add a few lbs of boost and have a 9 second car easy. N2O is the easiest, S/C vs turbos as mentioned S/C has cost up fornt but are pretty simple to install. A turbo requires some extensive fab work. FWIW I picked up a NOS kit for my 6-pack, and it willl be going on soon. It will have me way down in the 10's I'd guess, I'm running a stock stroke 440-6 w/ ported Stage VI heads and a small solid roller...
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 03:50 PM

Need to know more about your goals...

Do you want a big, loud thumper that sounds intimidating? If so, motor only, but prepared to lose some driveability and have some maintenance.

Do you want med sound with that whine sound? Supercharged, but you will still have some maintenance.

Do you want quiet and unassuming? Turbo. And very little maintenance because you can run a small cam, not a lot of gear and converter and the turbo will eat a lot of the exh sound.

Posted By: Porter67

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 04:04 PM

A multi staged, multi carbed, dedicated nitrous motor is not the cheap even on a street car. And can be easy when all is setup.

A power adder is a power adder and to run on the street in some places when prochargers (mustangs) are common so its just an equalizer.

And we all know the HP cars of today have superchargers, so again its just a good equalizer.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 06:34 PM

I know that's backwards
That's right - get rid of it.

Turbo is nice, but the install is a nightmare, and the underhood temperature is painful. IMHO every part of the exhaust has to be coated and shielded. If you use a header you'll replace it every few years.
Upside: the downstream exhaust is much cheaper.

These are ALL cheaper than NA to get the same power, but it's something else as well: a way to avoid that engine-killing RPM.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 06:38 PM

Quote:

Procharger IF: money is no object

Turbo IF: You have mad fab skills

Nitrous IF: You're cash challenged

All Motor IF: You don't plan on street racing







Hey now, I beat two of the above on the street n/a.........
Posted By: johnnycuda

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 07:13 PM

Mine is N/A, has run 10.70's at 126 thru full length exhaust on pump gas, (admittedly I threw in a couple gallons of C-12 in the tank to insure no pinging as the carb was lean), car weighs 3800 with me in it, was on DOT tires and drive it quite a bit. I took it on 2 Car Craft Anti Tours, each being a 800 mile round trip..(I really want to do Drag Week one year) as well as many other cruises,short trips or just plain cruising it around. My cam is only .601/.608 lift and is a small solid roller, the convertor is actually pretty tight and would be quicker if it was looser.
I have been kinda planning to install a Dana with a bit less gear and may throw one stage on it for grins.
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 07:32 PM

Quote:

I know that's backwards
That's right - get rid of it.

Turbo is nice, but the install is a nightmare, and the underhood temperature is painful. IMHO every part of the exhaust has to be coated and shielded. If you use a header you'll replace it every few years.
Upside: the downstream exhaust is much cheaper.

These are ALL cheaper than NA to get the same power, but it's something else as well: a way to avoid that engine-killing RPM.




Huh? I just flipped a set of stainless shorties, got a turbo blanket and wrapped the down pipe. Piping and heat are not an issue. And the headers look brand new, 2 years later.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 08:33 PM

Make the motor either a 512 C.I., 4.250 stroke with a 4.375 bore, or a 518 C.I. 4.300 stroke same bore size as the 512. Shoot for 10.5 to 10.8 to 1 compression ratio for 91 octane pump swill and work on the rear suspension to make it hook anywhere and go have fun. My 612 HP 512 C.I. pump gas motor in my 3450 lb street Duster ran 10.69@124.+ MPH through the muffs first timeout That was with ported 906 iron heads, I swapped the heads to a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM and the car ran 10.49 at 127.+ MPH. That was on a set of 30.5x13x15 M/T ET Street bias plys tires The last time I raced it it had a set of Indy SR M.W. heads and intake and ran 9.993 at 134.+ MPH through the muffs on straight Oregon 91 octane non ethanol pump swill You can get the same results also
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/09/14 09:13 PM

Quote:

Make the motor either a 512 C.I., 4.250 stroke with a 4.375 bore, or a 518 C.I. 4.300 stroke same bore size as the 512. Shoot for 10.5 to 10.8 to 1 compression ratio for 91 octane pump swill and work on the rear suspension to make it hook anywhere and go have fun. My 612 HP 512 C.I. pump gas motor in my 3450 lb street Duster ran [Email]10.69@124.+[/Email] MPH through the muffs first timeout That was with ported 906 iron heads, I swapped the heads to a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM and the car ran 10.49 at 127.+ MPH. That was on a set of 30.5x13x15 M/T ET Street bias plys tires The last time I raced it it had a set of Indy SR M.W. heads and intake and ran 9.993 at 134.+ MPH through the muffs on straight Oregon 91 octane non ethanol pump swill You can get the same results also




This last part here Cab gives me hope going from my rpm`s standard port to a max wedge port............
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 02:01 AM

Quote:

Make the motor either a 512 C.I., 4.250 stroke with a 4.375 bore, or a 518 C.I. 4.300 stroke same bore size as the 512. Shoot for 10.5 to 10.8 to 1 compression ratio for 91 octane pump swill and work on the rear suspension to make it hook anywhere and go have fun. My 612 HP 512 C.I. pump gas motor in my 3450 lb street Duster ran [Email]10.69@124.+[/Email] MPH through the muffs first timeout That was with ported 906 iron heads, I swapped the heads to a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM and the car ran 10.49 at 127.+ MPH. That was on a set of 30.5x13x15 M/T ET Street bias plys tires The last time I raced it it had a set of Indy SR M.W. heads and intake and ran 9.993 at 134.+ MPH through the muffs on straight Oregon 91 octane non ethanol pump swill You can get the same results also



Good info Cab, thanks, gives me alot to think about.
Got a buddy with a ford who is really tweaking me to turbo it and he's willing to help with the fab so I'm mulling that over...the GTX restoration is moving along so while it's in the paint shop I'll have some time to start on the Duster.
Posted By: mshred

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 04:54 AM

Quote:

Need to know more about your goals...

Do you want a big, loud thumper that sounds intimidating? If so, motor only, but prepared to lose some driveability and have some maintenance.

Do you want med sound with that whine sound? Supercharged, but you will still have some maintenance.

Do you want quiet and unassuming? Turbo. And very little maintenance because you can run a small cam, not a lot of gear and converter and the turbo will eat a lot of the exh sound.






TURBO hands down! For a true street car, nothing beats having GOBS of power, a very streetable rear gear that lets you cruise anywhere, and a very unassuming sounding car (helps with cops and for cleaning the clocks off the ball washers who think they have enough lol).

You say 10's are all you want...and yes, N/A will get you there...but you will want more...thats when you will wish you had a power adder. And when it comes to all around streetability, you cant beat turbos imo

Good luck with it!
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 12:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Need to know more about your goals...

Do you want a big, loud thumper that sounds intimidating? If so, motor only, but prepared to lose some driveability and have some maintenance.

Do you want med sound with that whine sound? Supercharged, but you will still have some maintenance.

Do you want quiet and unassuming? Turbo. And very little maintenance because you can run a small cam, not a lot of gear and converter and the turbo will eat a lot of the exh sound.






TURBO hands down! For a true street car, nothing beats having GOBS of power, a very streetable rear gear that lets you cruise anywhere, and a very unassuming sounding car (helps with cops and for cleaning the clocks off the ball washers who think they have enough lol).

You say 10's are all you want...and yes, N/A will get you there...but you will want more...thats when you will wish you had a power adder. And when it comes to all around streetability, you cant beat turbos imo

Good luck with it!



Thanks!
Posted By: dizuster

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 02:47 PM

I doubt you could build a low deck, stage 6, motor with the proper sized turbo to only run 10's. It would probably do that on 4psi...lol

If you want a 10 second turbo a body, you don't need those heads, or a stroker.


A 400/383 steel crank, Eddys, and a 80mm t6 turbo will give you 9 second pump gas capability easy. On race gas or would make 1000hp pretty easy.
Posted By: mshred

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 03:54 PM

Quote:

I doubt you could build a low deck, stage 6, motor with the proper sized turbo to only run 10's. It would probably do that on 4psi...lol

If you want a 10 second turbo a body, you don't need those heads, or a stroker.


A 400/383 steel crank, Eddys, and a 80mm t6 turbo will give you 9 second pump gas capability easy. On race gas or would make 1000hp pretty easy.




Posted By: BobR

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 04:01 PM

I'm partial to Procharger.
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 04:04 PM

Quote:

I doubt you could build a low deck, stage 6, motor with the proper sized turbo to only run 10's. It would probably do that on 4psi...lol

If you want a 10 second turbo a body, you don't need those heads, or a stroker.


A 400/383 steel crank, Eddys, and a 80mm t6 turbo will give you 9 second pump gas capability easy. On race gas or would make 1000hp pretty easy.




Yup, also. Save your money on the heads and stroker part. Look at what we (the turbo guys) run for parts and we are very mild and in the 9's.

I have Eddy heads on a 389 sb with a .520 hydraulic roller, 3.55 gears, 3000 converter.

I think dizuster is running a similar setup.
Posted By: SLOW67

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 04:56 PM

Turbo would be my vote but...if you are going to run E15 fuel I'd just go N/A. E15 is a pita to tune on and every tank your specific gravity changes. I loved my turbo setup on non-ethanol 93 but when it wasn't available it caused problems. That's the reason I ditched my turbo was fuel inconsistency got to be an added aggravation I didn't want on a street car.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 05:24 PM

Quote:

I doubt you could build a low deck, stage 6, motor with the proper sized turbo to only run 10's. It would probably do that on 4psi...lol

If you want a 10 second turbo a body, you don't need those heads, or a stroker.


A 400/383 steel crank, Eddys, and a 80mm t6 turbo will give you 9 second pump gas capability easy. On race gas or would make 1000hp pretty easy.




why do you say stuff like that? It makes me want to swap out my pistons, sell the sixpack and buy a turbo or 2.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 05:42 PM

Quote:

Turbo would be my vote but...if you are going to run E15 fuel I'd just go N/A. E15 is a pita to tune on and every tank your specific gravity changes. I loved my turbo setup on non-ethanol 93 but when it wasn't available it caused problems. That's the reason I ditched my turbo was fuel inconsistency got to be an added aggravation I didn't want on a street car.




Thats when EFI comes in real handy.. let it take care
of itself
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 07:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Turbo would be my vote but...if you are going to run E15 fuel I'd just go N/A. E15 is a pita to tune on and every tank your specific gravity changes. I loved my turbo setup on non-ethanol 93 but when it wasn't available it caused problems. That's the reason I ditched my turbo was fuel inconsistency got to be an added aggravation I didn't want on a street car.




Thats when EFI comes in real handy.. let it take care
of itself



Posted By: gregsdart

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/10/14 08:09 PM

I have a twin screw blower on a 2006 GT mustang and love it. 7.5 psi, and the hp went from 300 to 480, and the torque is right there on the bottom, starting at 2,000 rpm. The car ran 115 mph in the 1/4. Just think what a car that is 500 lbs lighter with a much bigger motor would do. The twin screw eats a little power over the turbo, but the response is instant, and the torque down low is much superior to a Procharger. I would go for a 500 cube motor with the proper sized Whipple unit.
As an example of how well they work, the STOCK class record for a new Cobra Mustang racer is 8.05 in the 1/4!
That is with a 4.0 liter Whipple on a 302 four valve motor.
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/11/14 06:19 AM

Yep!
Posted By: RapidusMaximus

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/11/14 11:28 AM

Wow...thanks for the responses, hope you turbo guys don't mind PM's for more specific details and pics.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/11/14 06:59 PM

I am an All Motor guy, but Nitrous sure is a cheap way for quick horsepower. I have enought Nitrous laying around to nuke a small town. Can kind of see the 17 bottles on the right. But boost is the ultimate wat to go in the long run. Got a pair of those too for my big build when I to it someday financially.

Attached picture 8205004-100_1683.jpg
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: nitrous, turbo, procharger or all motor? - 07/11/14 07:05 PM

Quote:

I am an All Motor guy, but Nitrous sure is a cheap way for quick horsepower. I have enought Nitrous laying around to nuke a small town. Can kind of see the 17 bottles on the right. But boost is the ultimate wat to go in the long run. Got a pair of those too for my big build when I to it someday financially.




you wouldn't happen to have enough line to run from the bottle to the soleniod for a b-body would ya? Getting ready to get my install going (FINALLY).
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