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Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE*****

Posted By: superwrench

Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE***** - 06/24/14 02:37 AM

Car was hooking hard at the end of last season. CalTrac's were set at no preload left side and 2 flats on the right.....Ranchos on #6. Car left straight and was dead hooking. So why screw with it/.....right ???
Well...over the winter I took the Six Pack off and changed over to a Victor and a 950 Quick Fuel.
This weekend, I couldn't get any hook at all.....just blazing the slicks well out past the 60 and most of the time back peddling to staightn the car out. I tried less shock....more shock...a bit more preload and still no results.
To coin the phrase...WTF ???
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 02:49 AM

Number one question is.. how many passes on the slicks
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 05:01 AM

I'm going to say about 40. But there was NO signs of them going away....They hooked right thru till the end of last season, then the car's been parked. Can they "dry" up like that ???
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 05:30 AM

Quote:

I'm going to say about 40. But there was NO signs of them going away....They hooked right thru till the end of last season, then the car's been parked. Can they "dry" up like that ???



Yes they can dry up BUT its usually in the sun that
really hurts them... in the garage on stands is normally
no problem
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 06:51 AM

Looking at them as we speak, they don't have that "sticky" they seemed to have before when you rubbed your hand across them. When I first put them on, they were definitely softer and stickier. They are a 30 9.0/15 D05 compound Hoosier. When I changed to them from the 29 x 10.0's last year, I could NOT believe the amount of hook they had.....narrower and taller tire??
I have new ones coming next week.....I guess I'm going to find out eh???
Seems a shame 'cause these tires still have a good 1/3 of the tire left and the ET Street's I used a few years back hooked even harder when they were worn out !!!
Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 07:17 AM

let us know how it works out and good luck
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 07:49 AM

Was the track prep any good ? I mean was everyone else hooking ok ? I know I use the Hoosier 30 x 9 radial slick and I put them on my car in May last year and drove on the street with them and when I went to the track in Oct I drove to the track also on them. And they hooked great in Oct when I was last at the track. Ron
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 07:59 AM

I wonder if this is worth a shot.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pji-sp-162
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 11:56 AM

I used to get over 100 passes out of my 32x14's on a 4 link car.

My 10.5 tire ladder bar Dart would eat slicks in 25 passes.
Posted By: dvw

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 12:24 PM

My 9.20 car has over 120 passes on 10.5. They're also over 6 years old. still hook the same. Same with my 11.0 street car slicks are over 8 years old, still hook the same.
Doug
Posted By: FlyFish

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 01:18 PM

If it was spinning that bad, I would say it is track prep...or lack there of.
Posted By: moparguy7074

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 02:14 PM

Quote:

If it was spinning that bad, I would say it is track prep...or lack there of.



I would have to agree with this. And if you decide to get rid of the old slicks let me know, I know I could hook with them.
Posted By: Cheatham

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 02:51 PM

lots of tire preps out there to keep tires fresh
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 03:25 PM

Quote:

If it was spinning that bad, I would say it is track prep...or lack there of.



I can agree as I know I found out when I was still learning about lining my car up in the grove or tracks laid down that most cars were launching in. I mean even if the track was working I found out how much I spun one night when I did not pay good attention and did not line up in the grove. And I am not saying that about you or mean anything smart towards you as I know you know what your doing I am just using that as an example as how important track prep can be. And I really like your car also. But I have learned my lesson as you see hear how I always try have my car in the grove at the strating line for best hook. I also know some of the tracks I go to seem to prep the track better on Sundays when they run their normal eliminations for the cars in the points race. As on week nights test and tunes they do not prep the track as good. Thats why I asked before how others were hooking. I am also curious what your car normally 60 fts since our cars run so close to each other. Thanks , Ron

Posted By: 74yellowduster

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 03:27 PM

Quote:

.Ranchos on #6. Car left straight and was dead hooking. So why screw with it/.....right ???
....
I tried less shock....more shock...a bit more preload and still no results.
To coin the phrase...WTF ???



how old are the ranchos?
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 04:39 PM

Quote:

Car was hooking hard at the end of last season. CalTrac's were set at no preload left side and 2 flats on the right.....Ranchos on #6. Car left straight and was dead hooking. So why screw with it/.....right ???
Well...over the winter I took the Six Pack off and changed over to a Victor and a 950 Quick Fuel.
This weekend, I couldn't get any hook at all.....just blazing the slicks well out past the 60 and most of the time back peddling to staightn the car out. I tried less shock....more shock...a bit more preload and still no results.
To coin the phrase...WTF ???

Cat Tracs sure aren't a cure-all for bad track prep. When you switched carb / intake set up did the MPH improve? In other words, are you making more power? We have Wednesday and Friday night races ( run what ya brung) around here. Track prep is so bad ( plus kids dragging water on to the starting line) that I don't even go to them.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 04:57 PM

Given that I know where you race, and track prep if we want to call it that leaves something to be desired, I wouldn't go tossing the slicks out just yet. How many races have been held this year and how was the track for others?
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 05:44 PM

A few guys were having some hook issues, but most I talked too said it seemed to be pretty good. It was the first race weekend. This car was 60'-ing at 1.45 to 1.47 last season. Best to date is a 1.517 on a 6.87 1/8th pass. I know for a fact that with this carb and intake combo change, the car seems to really hit hard then releases...... harder than with the six pack. And yes...the shocks are 5 years old...I was thinking about that....maybe I should just crawl under there and change them too. But then, the ride was just as hairy with them at #9 as it was with them at #3.....you would have thought that if it is shock problems, that there would have been a setting in there that should have worked better .

One thing I didn't do was to put in tubes when I went to these tires....maybe I've hit the sidewalls so hard last season that they can't put up with the abuse anymore !!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 05:54 PM

Heavier cars that hit the tire hard kill the side walls
much sooner than lighter cars... I've never worn out
a slick(tread surface) but the side walls are done
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 05:56 PM

Try this pic....I think THIS tells the story !!!

A fellow racer just sent me this.....maybe hard to see at this sizing, but on a larger pic, the sidewalls are DESTROYED....and with pressure at 14# !!


Attached picture 8186258-tirehit.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 06:01 PM

Quote:

Try this pic....I think THIS tells the story !!!

A fellow racer just sent me this.....maybe hard to see at this sizing, but on a larger pic, the sidewalls are DESTROYED....and with pressure at 14# !!




Yeah.. your slamming them... also I think it needs
a bit more air
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 06:22 PM

I'm wondering if maybe I should put the new tires on my 10" rims.....although that might be a tad wide for a 9" tire.....

14# seemed to be what the car liked last season....I went up to 15# late Saturday during time trials but that was as far as I got by the end of the day.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 06:33 PM

Quote:

I'm wondering if maybe I should put the new tires on my 10" rims.....although that might be a tad wide for a 9" tire.....

14# seemed to be what the car liked last season....I went up to 15# late Saturday during time trials but that was as far as I got by the end of the day.



A 10" rim will work fine
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 06:38 PM

I killed a set of hoosier qtps in less than 20 passes!
Heavy car with a stick.
But same symptoms as you have.
Hooked good and then next race didnt even try.
I was going from 1.7 60s to 2.0!!!
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 08:28 PM

I run the Hoosier radial 30 x 9 slick at about 16 psi. Seems to work good for me but the radial is different then the bias tire and I believe the radials have a stiffer sidewall. Ron
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 10:08 PM

I just never had the time to try 16-17#'s Ron....looking at the picture, I can see the rim is just killing the tire. The car weighs 3650 with me in it, so it's definitely a heavy weight. I ran 295/65 15 ET street radials at Pinks All Out with 17# in them and it hooked violently !!! It's just that I run at a couple of strips that (just like Dustin says), have track prep issues. The BIG tired cars don't have much issue, but I'm not cutting up a virgin Challenger's wheel wells to get some meat in there.
I'm just trying to get rid of !!!

It still hooked good at Mission Raceway last September, but their track prdep could have been masking my up-coming issue.

I think Mike (Mr P Body) has hit the nail on the head.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 10:25 PM

My car punishes the sidewalls as well. I would reccomend you install tubes with the new tires.

Attached picture 8186511-IMG_2924.JPG
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 10:29 PM

Just ordered some Dustin.....Thanks you guys !! It'll be 3 weeks or so before I can report back, but I'll be sure to do so.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 10:46 PM

You have to screw the tires to the wheel with tubes, otherwise you run the risk of ripping the valve stem out.
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 10:58 PM

All my tires are screwed to the rims. My 10" rims still have what's left of some 29 x 10's on them with tubes. Learned the hard way once before!
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/24/14 11:13 PM

Here is my 30 x 9 Hoosier radial slicks that look to have stiffer sidewalls. I do not use tubes and do not screw the tire to the rim. No Cal Tracs for me just SS springs. I like the radial slicks as they usually seem to hook ok even when the track is not prepped well. I hear others say they dont work as good for them on a track not prepped good. This pic is with 16 to 17 lbs of air. But my best 60 ft is a 1.50 at 3700 lbs and a 9.5 Dynamic converter. I guess not bad for a leaf spring steret car. I wonder how your car could would work with radial slicks ? Course I drive on the street with them also as I like this size because nothing rubs even on turns but no one makes the 30 x 9 in drag radials. Do you usually run at the same track or can you try another track with them ? And you car 60's good going in the 1.40's is very good for the et and weight. Ron

Posted By: DblOJoe

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/25/14 12:34 AM

Quote:

My car punishes the sidewalls as well. I would reccomend you install tubes with the new tires.



What size tire and wheel do you run and how much air pressure if you don't mind me asking?
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/25/14 12:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My car punishes the sidewalls as well. I would reccomend you install tubes with the new tires.



What size tire and wheel do you run and how much air pressure if you don't mind me asking?



That is a 29x10.5W, With Tubes on a 15x10. I run them about 12.25 PSI on my gauge, which is about 13.5 PSI on my buddies gauge.

Attached picture 8186632-2700FBlaunch1stpointsrace2014.jpg
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/25/14 03:14 AM

The car hits hard Ron.... And I had the converter tightened a bit last August.It used to flash to about 4800 and now it's more like 4300. I leave at 1800 RPM on the footbrake....I'd hate to see what the tires would look like if I had a Trans brake and letting things go at 4000 !!! Mission Raceway isn't open yet because of the track being ripped up and resurfaced...Probably not going to get any 1/4 mile runs until August. So I'm stuck with my normal tracks. I will have new tires and tubes next week.
What the heck...it's only money ain't it ???
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/26/14 08:59 AM

You are right as its only money. And I never have enough of it. Let us know when you go back to the track on the new tires. Good luck , Ron
Posted By: Ian

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/26/14 02:30 PM

i think your engine is a lot more sharper now with the single on it and it is smackin the tyres harder
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/26/14 04:51 PM

You are probably right Ian.....It's definitely more responsive off the line so I'm sure the tires are feeling the brunt of everything. I was about 1 MPH faster this weekend than normal even with the tire spin and a headwind.
I'll get this SOB figured out....Tubes are here and tires by the weekend.....the beer budget kinda took a BIG hit !!!
Posted By: toddd

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/27/14 05:09 AM

Head wind.......?

Honestly Richard, I think it's 2 things. Very little track prep, and your making more power.

I tried NOT to make any changes til Sat afternoon, atleast there was a "starting line" by then.

You'll get it.
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! - 06/27/14 05:31 AM

It was later Saturday before elims that I tried to mow the grass......right out of shape to the left partially off the track. I never did find any "Track"......I think they forgot the VHT completely !!!

At the beginning on Saturaday, there was a fair bit of wind. It died down around 1:00
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE***** - 07/21/14 07:13 AM

Well.... here it is in a nut shell.....

Put a new set of 30 x 9 Hoosier's and new tubes on my 10" Prostars.

First pass was a best 6.80 @ 103.60
Second pass was 6.75 @ 103.78
Then back-to-back 6.77's lifting in eliminations.

Car got the 60 foots back to 1.45 and tracked straight as an arrow !!!

I think I found my gremlins!!! Thanks for the feedback guys....
Posted By: 383man

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE***** - 07/21/14 04:01 PM

Congrats on the new best and getting the traction back. Was that a radial slick ? Thats a good 60 as my best 60 is 1.50 on just SS springs. But I forgot if you run Cal Tracs ? Very nice outing and glad to hear its got the 60's back. Ron
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE***** - 07/21/14 04:12 PM

If I can get a 1.52-1.55 w/ my new Cal-Tracs I'll be happy.
Posted By: superwrench

Re: Traction Issues...AGAIN !!! UPDATE***** - 07/21/14 05:32 PM

Bias slicks Ron....at 15# pressure.
I do have Caltracs set at two flats on the right and zero on the left.
The track started going away later in the show...I was up in the low 1.50's then I redlighted..... by a measly -.007....I guess that was punishment for the .001 good light I got earlier on !!!
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