Moparts

Trying to make dream come true

Posted By: Spode

Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 08:49 PM

I have been a daily reader of this forum for 6 years. I rarely post as im stuck in neutral so to speak and have little real input. I love following the the technical threads.

History and background
I have owned my 1972 340 Demon since my senior year in high school that was 1979.
In the early eighties I played around in the street racing stuff and did a little bracket racing at OCIR.
Then I went back to college got married had kids blah blah. The car was stored in my garage for about 13 years.
I did some basics to get it going again, fuel system hoses, carb rebuilt, Complete brake system overhaul, cooling system, oil, trans oil, plugs, wires, cap
Car fired up ran great and drove it as a toy on weekends for a few more years up to around 2006.
The car has been sitting for the last 8 years. Kids in college and other expenses.

The current setup all mid eighties components except the carb
340 0.030 (original block) #matching
10.5:1 speed pro forged
2.02 J heads port matched pockets cleaned up (original heads with 2.02s added)
Ductile iron adj rocker arms
Comp cams 244@ 50 .510 hyd cam
LD 340 with Carb Shop 3310
B&M LBA rev pattern valve body, not original trans
3400 convertor flashes around 3800
4:10 8-3/4 cone posi
Ran high 12s @ 108 back in the 80s, I always had traction problems with my street tires at OCIR never had slicks, car has stock suspension with no mods

My dream has always been to have a ten second car. This car purely a toy only. I dont plan on ever selling it.
Goal 10.50 somewhat streetable to be able to drive 13 miles to Fontana or 20 miles to Irwindale. Drive around the local area on weekends.

I will be on a tight budget and have to be patient and accumulate parts over time to finish.

The suspension will need to be upgraded no matter what. I will have to go with all the required safety equipment for a 10-11 sec car also

I also feel like i should keep the original engine and go with the two options below.

Option 1) Find a 360 block get fully machined go with 4" rotating assembly ported eddies or used 360-2 heads. Roller or flat tappet. Single plane with bigger carb. Go thru trans have a new convertor built.

Option 2) Find a complete 400 engine/trans cheap. Have block fully machined. Go with a 4.25 stroke assembly, aftermarket alum heads. Indy dual plane. Rebuild trans, new convertor

I know I left a lot of the details out but trying to shorten it.

In the long run what will be cheaper and easier to do ?

Add any thing I left out. No feeling will be hurt on my end.

Final note
My hooker headers are smashed so either option will require headers current trans leaks everywhere from sitting.
Yes I know my 8-3/4 is probably a time bomb.

Thanks Jeff
Posted By: Jerry

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 09:07 PM

slap a supercharger on and go racing. forget getting another block, run what you got and upgrade the chassis. then go have some fun.
Posted By: partsforsale

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 09:08 PM

Leave as is + 150hp nitrous plate kit = dream achieved under budget.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 09:12 PM

Go 9`s n/a w/a big block AND an 8 3/4..............ftw.
Posted By: GTS340

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 09:31 PM

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post8174927

Be very easy to reach that goal with the big block option. Read thread above. Simple, reliable and on pump gas.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 10:05 PM

You can achive 10's without much trouble on pump with a NA smallblock or bigblock. I see alot of A-bodies with the smallblock strokers running 10's and streetable. And of course it would be no problem with a bigblock either. If you dont have a preference of big or small block start pricing the parts and see which is cheaper. As for suspension you dont have to spend a ton. My suspension is all stock other then SS springs and 90/10 shocks up front and it hooks ok for a street car running 10's with a 1.50 sixty ft. Course you cant go wrong with Cal Tracs but they will cost more if you use the Mono spring which they say works the best with them. Ron
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/17/14 11:07 PM

I have a 71 Demon with a 440...There are not a lot of Demons around..so I would go with a stroker small block and aluminum heads.

I think I would get new headers,upgrade the suspension and sticky tires and try what you have first.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 01:51 AM

I would build a solid 400 + cube(big as is practical) smallblock shortblock, run the heads you have and a single plane intake and the proper cam and see what happens! Then you could upgrade heads if you need to. There are a number of head options, but with some porting on the stockers, you might make your goal.
for rear suspension SS springs would work, but will require some good adjustable shocks to control them. Box the spring pads. I rolled mine over years ago
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 02:00 AM

Quote:





In the long run what will be cheaper and easier to do ?




I will say it's seldom ever CHEAPER to change formats (but sometimes nessesary). A stroker smallblock would give you the goals without changing up much. Lighter too.
Posted By: Spode

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 03:51 PM

Thanks for all the responses. I still will consider both options and keep my eyes open for some deals when I have some cash in my wallet.
Hopefully ill realize the completion before I retire, lol
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 04:04 PM

Big block will get you there easier, at less RPM and with less "exotic" parts. Using the 400 block you have some stroker options 451/470/499/512. A relatively basic build with just about any aluminum head shouldn't have a problem cracking into the 10's

It can of course be done with a small block as well, but might require a couple extras, Ported heads vs Non ported Big block heads for example.

If I was in your shoes, first thing I would do would be make the car run and drive again with the 340 you already have. Good Luck!
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 05:35 PM

Brian at IMM in Indio Ca does some great things with new iron heads, might be worth a call to find out what could be built power wise.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 05:53 PM

Option 1 IMO. How do you feel about sticking a 10 pt cage in it?? - cause you are gonna have to.

Attached picture 8179964-300rollbar.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/18/14 05:56 PM

Quote:

Option 1 IMO. How do you feel about sticking a 10 pt cage in it?? - cause you are gonna have to.



If he goes with the 10.50 then he only needs a 5pt
as a minimum.. most guys do a 6 pt... thats good to 10.0
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 03:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Option 1 IMO. How do you feel about sticking a 10 pt cage in it?? - cause you are gonna have to.



If he goes with the 10.50 then he only needs a 5pt
as a minimum.. most guys do a 6 pt... thats good to 10.0


My Duster had a six point chromemoly bar in it, Woodburn threw me out once it went 9.993, the reason being it didn't have a legal cage in it nor was the chassis certifeid and I didn't have a current competion license for 9.99 and faster I dialed it back a tiny bit, it had ran several 10.001 and 10.000 that day The rule books say if it has a stock, unmodified firewall and floor, excluding wheel tubes, the 5 point 1 3/4 diameter bar is legal to 10.00, as already pointed out
Posted By: 383man

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 03:49 AM

You guys are right as I have a 6 point bar which is legal to 10.0. I did not want a full cage since I drive on the street so much. Ron
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 03:54 AM

Also plus the roll bar its highly advised to put in
frame connectors to help keep the body straight..
plus put in the down leg bars to the frame connectors
from the main hoop at the cross bar
Posted By: cgall

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 03:35 PM

Don't forget that if you want to run 10's you need aftermarket axles, trans blanket, sfi balancer, etc.

I would not modify such an original car that much. I would do the 360 build, caltracs and 9" slicks and keep the car above 11.50.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 03:51 PM

Quote:

Don't forget that if you want to run 10's you need aftermarket axles, trans blanket, sfi balancer, etc.

I would not modify such an original car that much. I would do the 360 build, caltracs and 9" slicks and keep the car above 11.50.



Remember that he wants a 10 second car and he has
no plans on selling it
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 04:21 PM

I guess the big question here is; what is the point of no return ( to stock condition) without spending as much or more $ than it cost to put it in the 10's - which is why I brought up the roll bar thing. I went through this a short while back. Every situation / car is different, but IMO, you start running faster than 10.50, you are going to start looking at a dedicated race car. Even hi 10's will be starting to cross over the line. The OP needs to consider this up front, before he starts cutting and welding .
Posted By: dizuster

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/19/14 05:42 PM

Big block would be the easiest. Small block would be cheaper.

Remember big block will require new trans core (different bell housing)
Distributor
Pullies
Brackets
Water pump
Timing cover
Etc...

All of that stuff will work off your current engine without "tearing" it up too bad.

Big block Eddy head will KILL most of the out of the box small block heads though. So a 500" big block will make it to 10.50 easier (less radical combination), then a 400" small block will.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 03:31 AM

Quote:

Big block will get you there easier, at less RPM and with less "exotic" parts. Using the 400 block you have some stroker options 451/470/499/512. A relatively basic build with just about any aluminum head shouldn't have a problem cracking into the 10's

It can of course be done with a small block as well, but might require a couple extras, Ported heads vs Non ported Big block heads for example.

If I was in your shoes, first thing I would do would be make the car run and drive again with the 340 you already have. Good Luck!




I was runnin solid 10.40`s w/a 470 and ported 906`s, solid cam and drove it everywhere. Easy to do and if I knew then what I know now, it would of been a lot faster. I`ll never own a small block again and torque is king IF you can hook it..........
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 06:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Big block will get you there easier, at less RPM and with less "exotic" parts. Using the 400 block you have some stroker options 451/470/499/512. A relatively basic build with just about any aluminum head shouldn't have a problem cracking into the 10's

It can of course be done with a small block as well, but might require a couple extras, Ported heads vs Non ported Big block heads for example.

If I was in your shoes, first thing I would do would be make the car run and drive again with the 340 you already have. Good Luck!




I was runnin solid 10.40`s w/a 470 and ported 906`s, solid cam and drove it everywhere. Easy to do and if I knew then what I know now, it would of been a lot faster. I`ll never own a small block again and torque is king IF you can hook it..........



you can fake torque with gear, give me HP thru RPM any day over those long stroke's.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 06:58 AM

Quote:

Don't forget that if you want to run 10's you need aftermarket axles, trans blanket, sfi balancer, etc.

I would not modify such an original car that much. I would do the 360 build, caltracs and 9" slicks and keep the car above 11.50.




This is true as I use an SFI balancer and run a trans blanket but I do still have stock axles. Now I only race about twice a year but I do need to upgrade my axles. I am glad my car is an auto because if it was a stick I am sure I would have broken an axle by now. And as said you will need at least a 5 point rollbar to race at the track. You dont have to tub it or even move the springs if you dont want as you can run easy 10's on a 9" slick but you can fit bigger then 9" slicks in the stock Demon wheewell. Tires today work good as cars out there are running 9's on 9" tires. And if you decide on the smallblock stroker you can leave the 340 emblems on it. Myself I used a bigblock because my car is a B-body and I wanted to keep some max wedge look but if its cheaper for you to stay with the smallblock stroker you will have no problem getting in the 10's with the right combo. I am impressed with how strong some of the smallblock Mopar strokers run. So whichever you use big or smallblock you can build a nice 10 second Demon with the right well built and though out combo. Good luck and post pics as you build it as I really like Demons. Ron
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 05:06 PM

"8 3/4 is a time bomb" - no doubt with a cone style posi unit. That will go by by in short order. You will need a spool - another great addition for a street machine.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 05:48 PM

Quote:


I have owned my 1972 340 Demon since my senior year in high school that was 1979.

340 0.030 (original block) #matching




Original 72 340 Demons do not grow on trees , especially with their original number matching block. I would not put nitrous or a supercharger on that motor unless you don't care about the original block.
Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 06:11 PM

If a track will not let you run because of the roll cage then go to one that will let you run!Tomorrow (Sat.night) @ Lagrange Ga Drag Strip they are having there monthly No Bars Race(that means any kind of roll cage not even a 4-point allowed), No tube chassis(back half cars with no roll cage allowed),No wheelie bars anything else goes Heads-Up Class!I'll give you a Hint if you can't run 5.0 in the 1/8 mile or Faster you best not go.Also it will be Grudge Race night,the place will be packed.

If your Local wanna be Big NHRA track will not let you race,go to a non NHRA track(there are more of them)that will Welcome you to come Race!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 06:20 PM

Quote:

If a track will not let you run because of the roll cage then go to one that will let you run!Tomorrow (Sat.night) @ Lagrange Ga Drag Strip they are having there monthly No Bars Race(that means any kind of roll cage not even a 4-point allowed), No tube chassis(back half cars with no roll cage allowed),No wheelie bars anything else goes Heads-Up Class!I'll give you a Hint if you can't run 5.0 in the 1/8 mile or Faster you best not go.Also it will be Grudge Race night,the place will be packed.

If your Local wanna be Big NHRA track will not let you race,go to a non NHRA track(there are more of them)that will Welcome you to come Race!



Even our no brand tracks here wont let you go much
past the 11.50.. sure they might let you hit 11.20
but thats about it... they WILL ask you to slow down
or leave... I know this for FACT.. when I've gone
with my buddy he has been asked to leave or slow down
on multiple occasions
Posted By: Spode

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 07:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I have owned my 1972 340 Demon since my senior year in high school that was 1979.

340 0.030 (original block) #matching




Original 72 340 Demons do not grow on trees , especially with their original number matching block. I would not put nitrous or a supercharger on that motor unless you don't care about the original block.



Yes I understand this aspect of this car. I have had this car for so long and gone back and forth that when I have the money after my kids are grown and on their own.

Should I reurn it to stock. <-- dont plan on selling it

Make it look somewhat stock (interior, paint, keep my old centerlines) but with a hot 340/416. <-- improve it as it sits

Go part race car with roll bar gutted interior race seats big block no body mods. <---really what I want to do but my gut tells no

One reason I suggested a 360 stroker instead of my 340 was if i wanted it back original it could be done.

I guess im still not sure the direction.

I have also thought of finding a slant 6 or 318 demon and making it a racer with no worries. money permitting and wife

Im not a guy with extra cash laying around so whatever I do will be a one shot deal. The wife doesnt understand the car thing even though she has put up with a spot taken in the garage from the day we were married.

sidenote
I wish I also kept the 1970 340 4-Speed Panther pink Duster
and the 1971 340 Duster auto, special ordered very well optioned
got both of these around 1983-4 ended up dumping them for school tution end my hopes of a profesional car collector
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 07:33 PM

JMO but with a 416 in your car its the same as a stock
car.. big deal that it has a 4" crank... if you look
at it it still has the number matching engine... I
would also keep the interior in it and as stock as
possible... with a 416 you can get into the 10s unless
its some special tank(super heavy).. thats the cheapest
way to do what you want and still keep the stock look
about it
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 10:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


I have owned my 1972 340 Demon since my senior year in high school that was 1979.

340 0.030 (original block) #matching




Original 72 340 Demons do not grow on trees , especially with their original number matching block. I would not put nitrous or a supercharger on that motor unless you don't care about the original block.



Yes I understand this aspect of this car. I have had this car for so long and gone back and forth that when I have the money after my kids are grown and on their own.

Should I reurn it to stock. <-- dont plan on selling it

Make it look somewhat stock (interior, paint, keep my old centerlines) but with a hot 340/416. <-- improve it as it sits

Go part race car with roll bar gutted interior race seats big block no body mods. <---really what I want to do but my gut tells no

One reason I suggested a 360 stroker instead of my 340 was if i wanted it back original it could be done.

I guess im still not sure the direction.

I have also thought of finding a slant 6 or 318 demon and making it a racer with no worries. money permitting and wife

Im not a guy with extra cash laying around so whatever I do will be a one shot deal. The wife doesnt understand the car thing even though she has put up with a spot taken in the garage from the day we were married.

sidenote
I wish I also kept the 1970 340 4-Speed Panther pink Duster
and the 1971 340 Duster auto, special ordered very well optioned
got both of these around 1983-4 ended up dumping them for school tution end my hopes of a profesional car collector

IMO, slant 6 A body car ( they are still cheap ). Gut it, Stroked 360, Mild mods, and you will be there. For about 15K, you can tell all your friends you ran in the 10's. - or you could just lie - absolute cheapest way.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/20/14 11:44 PM

It's a 72.....and you will keep it forever......

IMO, keep a small block in it

So, put a 4" crank in it, have the heads done by IMM, have him spec u a cam, get a good converter, put a clutch suregrip in, some sticky street tires, frame connectors and maybe a 6 point bar and have fun without a lot of coin.......should be able to do that for 7k or less and still have a low 11/hi 10 car you can live with on the street....
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/21/14 12:59 AM

Doesn't IMM have a similar small block Duster that runs mid 10's ?

I'd say he is fairly close and would be a dang good resource.
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/21/14 02:06 AM

Like I said..I have a 71 Demon.It was a original 340 4-speed car...we got it as a bare bones body in 1981.It now has a 440,it's been tubbed,fenderwells cut for headers,no interior etc..
We should have just put in a small block and raced it that way with 9" tires..would have accomplished the same results.

Put in a stroker 360 and run 11.50's with it.It doesn't pay an more money at the tracks to run faster.
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/21/14 09:12 AM

Even with a 4" crank with what you got and on pump gas, would get you low 11s.
Build a 360/408 short block on the side and enjoy the car in the mean time.
When the short block is done, put your existing top end on. Go run low 11's with what you have.
When time and $ allow, get some good heads 300cfm and stuff in a 256@050 .650 solid roller and go run mid 10s.
At this point the rest of your drivetrain will also need attention.
Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/21/14 02:21 PM

Quote:

Even with a 4" crank with what you got and on pump gas, would get you low 11s.
Build a 360/408 short block on the side and enjoy the car in the mean time.
When the short block is done, put your existing top end on. Go run low 11's with what you have.
When time and $ allow, get some good heads 300cfm and stuff in a [Email]256@050[/Email] .650 solid roller and go run mid 10s.
At this point the rest of your drivetrain will also need attention.



Posted By: 383man

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/21/14 07:08 PM

My 63 is an original 383 car and I was surprised as how many people told me I should have left it stock. But like you I will never sell it so I am not worried about the value of it since I wont sell it and my kids will get it when I die. So if you feel the same I would do what you want with it as I did and enjoy the heck out of it. Ron
Posted By: jcc

Re: Trying to make dream come true - 06/22/14 03:07 AM

I'm with the SB stroker crank crowd.

I'm also a believer in getting the car back running and driving first, is a bigger priority.

Kids in college are still not out of the nest, and have life still has surprises.

Did you mention what the current brake package is on the car?
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