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Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400

Posted By: Saskabusa

Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 03:55 AM

What all would be involved in this swap?

If you used a ATI SFI case or equivalent.

New convertor, shifter?

Would there be more clearance on the floor boards?

What is the difference in length?

Some type of custom trans mount.

How many guys have done this?

Any advice?
Posted By: Hutch

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 07:07 AM

The nicest case by far is the Reid case. That along with their bellhousing is the best you will get in a T400 case. Normally the trans is built stock length or PG length but I have built some with long tailhousings for cars that already have a long driveshaft. I will take a few measurments tomorrow and post the differences in lengths and mount locations. The shape of the trans is quite a bit different than the TF so it may get a little crowded towards the back of the trans/floor. Im sure someone that has done the swap will chime in about any fitment issues. You will need a converter, flexplate, hub adapter and shifter to complete the package.


Hutch
www.hutchtrans.com
Posted By: Runnoft

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 03:41 PM

I have a TH400 in my '66 B-body behind a warmed up 440. I used a JW Ultra bell with an ATI 6-bolt crank adapter and ATI flywheel. The converter is just a regular TH400 piece. I had to cut up the factory trans cross member and fab a new transmission mount which wasn't a big deal. I also had to clearance the floor pan reinforcement brace that runs above the trans cross member/torsion bar bulkhead. Some things to be aware of: you will have to run a manual valve body since there is no room for the modulator valve in the factory trans tunnel. You can't use a factory shifter without major modifications. The TH400 and 727 have a different spacing in the length of the "throw" between park and reverse.
Hope this helps.
Posted By: Runnoft

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 03:47 PM

Thought of a couple of more things:
I just used a stock Buick, Olds, Pontiac pattern case. They are cheap and easy to find. Also, the TH400 is shorter overall than a 727 so you will need a longer driveshaft and finally I ended up using a Hurst quarter-stick shifter under my factory console after I tried and tried to get the factory shifter to work.
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 04:08 PM

Quote:

I have a TH400 in my '66 B-body behind a warmed up 440.

I had to cut up the factory trans cross member and fab a new transmission mount which wasn't a big deal. I also had to clearance the floor pan reinforcement brace that runs above the trans cross member/torsion bar bulkhead.

Hope this helps.



Thats very helpful. My biggest question was fitment.

I currently run a 727 with a CRS shield in my 67 Charger. It is a very tight fit. I was wondering if a SFI cased T400 would have more room.
Posted By: Runnoft

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/23/14 04:23 PM

I don't think you could run a factory TH400 case with an external shield without doing a lot of cutting. In your case, you would probably have an easier time by using an SFI case. The TH400 is bigger in the "business" area. Mine is just a street car but I have no regrets switching over. It makes me smile on every 2 to 3 full throttle up shift.
Posted By: moparlulu

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 07:37 AM

Quote:

I don't think you could run a factory TH400 case with an external shield without doing a lot of cutting. In your case, you would probably have an easier time by using an SFI case. The TH400 is bigger in the "business" area. Mine is just a street car but I have no regrets switching over. It makes me smile on every 2 to 3 full throttle up shift.

whats the big difference to go to all that hassle?........just asking.
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 08:14 AM

Quote:

whats the big difference to go to all that hassle?........just asking.



Looking at trans option for hi HP/heavy car applications.

If I go any farther I might as well have good reliable tranny behind the motor. Try and avoid any catastrophic failures.
Posted By: Steve1118

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 03:30 PM

I don't know...we've been racing Hemi cars for over well over forty years, all with Torqueflites. Never had issues, or "catastrophic failure". Do whatever you want, but it seems like a lot of screwing around......
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 05:13 PM

Quote:

I don't know...we've been racing Hemi cars for over well over forty years, all with Torqueflites. Never had issues, or "catastrophic failure". Do whatever you want, but it seems like a lot of screwing around......



I also don't understand the sudden shift on the perception of the TF. You have to modify the 400 for it to be a player too.
Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 08:20 PM

Ya I don't get why people are scared of torqueflites. Put a good drum in it and a bolt in sprag and you will be fine.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 10:02 PM

Quote:


I also don't understand the sudden shift on the perception of the TF.



It's not "sudden", most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time.
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 10:11 PM

Quote:

Ya I don't get why people are scared of torqueflites. Put a good drum in it and a bolt in sprag and you will be fine.



Right before I built my last trans for my Charger I had the opportunity to buy a ATI power glide. It was set up to go behind a big block. I passed on that deal and built a 727 instead.

Now I am thinking about getting an F2 and increasing the output of the motor. It's at this point I am beginning to regret building a 727.

So now I am looking at options for building a bullet proof tranny that could work for me to run my car down to 8.50.

My Charger is quite heavy 3800 and I bracket race it.

I am not interested in playing find the weak link with 727's.
Posted By: Steve1118

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 10:54 PM

"most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time"

I see, I understand now. I guess we've must been under a rock since 1964. Silly us for not seeing the obvious superiority of the TH400 and wasting time with TF's on our Hemi and wedge cars....if we'd have only known...... Excuse us for not being in the know.

Attached picture 8154638-BigSteve=JenniferWilson.jpg
Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 11:07 PM

LOL Ya I would be willing to bet I am laying down more Hp than most. Never had a issue (knock on wood). From big blocks on spray or boost. I had a Ram diesel that ran bottom 12s and launching with 30 psi in 4x4 and never broke anything. Basically the same trans other than OD..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 11:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I also don't understand the sudden shift on the perception of the TF.



It's not "sudden", most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time.



Doesnt the TH400 use a sprag also
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 11:45 PM

If you want a debate pros and cons of 727 versus the world feel free to start your own thread.

This thread is about putting a T400 in a b body. If you have some constructive advise to add great.

Half the posts in this thread are of no use what so ever.
Posted By: Ian

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 11:51 PM

a glide will fit in tunnel with no mods and will work well at your power level
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/24/14 11:53 PM

Quote:

If you want a debate pros and cons of 727 versus the world feel free to start your own thread.

This thread is about putting a T400 in a b body. If you have some constructive advise to add great.

Half the posts in this thread are of no use what so ever.



I asked a question... I dont know if they do or not..
NOT trying to start anything
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 12:16 AM

Quote:

[Doesnt the TH400 use a sprag also




It's not all about sprags.
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 12:24 AM

Quote:

a glide will fit in tunnel with no mods and will work well at your power level



Thanks. I was pretty sure that would work. I am slightly familiar with those.

I am trying to figure if it is worth while to look at the 400 or just stick with a PG.

What I want to do is be able to bracket race the car at 9.1 have a completely reliable drivetrain and have capacity to go faster.
Posted By: Ian

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 02:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

a glide will fit in tunnel with no mods and will work well at your power level



Thanks. I was pretty sure that would work. I am slightly familiar with those.

I am trying to figure if it is worth while to look at the 400 or just stick with a PG.

What I want to do is be able to bracket race the car at 9.1 have a completely reliable drivetrain and have capacity to go faster.


i love the glide and they will handle anything you can throw at it ,my car ia a little lighter and a less power than yours 1.37 60 ft std gear set 280 $ converter on a average track at 3550 lbs .i think you can not go wrong with a glide in yours ,pm if your keen i can get you a good deal on them cheers

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Posted By: Mr. T

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 02:44 PM

I am not trying to pick a fight. I have known bracket racer's that have done away with their 727's and replaced them with Power Glide's in order to make their cars more consistent by reducing the initial torque and only having to shift once. But, what exactly is supposed to be the advantage of a Turbo 400 over a 727?
Posted By: onebaddakota

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 03:58 PM

I always thought that the perceived advantages of the turbo 400 weren't great enough to warrant the cost. Once you outgrew the HP level of a built 727, you were in glide territory anyway. Hopefully, the "in the know" guys can help me out here.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 06:28 PM

Quote:

"most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time"

I see, I understand now. I guess we've must been under a rock since 1964. Silly us for not seeing the obvious superiority of the TH400 and wasting time with TF's on our Hemi and wedge cars....if we'd have only known...... Excuse us for not being in the know.



Brand loyalty versus reality.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/25/14 06:50 PM

Where does the C6 rank in the mix?
Posted By: 80arrow

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/26/14 12:46 AM

I might be wrong but I think you can get different first gear ratios for a th400, not sure if you can with a 727? Changing the first gear ratio would help if you have a lot of power and limited traction.
Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/26/14 01:10 AM

Quote:

I might be wrong but I think you can get different first gear ratios for a th400, not sure if you can with a 727? Changing the first gear ratio would help if you have a lot of power and limited traction.



available from Tranzact of Indy for 727.

1:95 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:12 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:28 1st 1:40 2nd 1:1 3rd
Posted By: 80arrow

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/26/14 01:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I might be wrong but I think you can get different first gear ratios for a th400, not sure if you can with a 727? Changing the first gear ratio would help if you have a lot of power and limited traction.



available from Tranzact of Indy for 727.

1:95 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:12 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:28 1st 1:40 2nd 1:1 3rd



Thanks, I was thinking of changing the first gear in my 727. What is the standard first ratio?
Posted By: moparx

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/26/14 12:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I might be wrong but I think you can get different first gear ratios for a th400, not sure if you can with a 727? Changing the first gear ratio would help if you have a lot of power and limited traction.



available from Tranzact of Indy for 727.

1:95 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:12 1st 1:35 2nd 1:1 3rd
2:28 1st 1:40 2nd 1:1 3rd



Thanks, I was thinking of changing the first gear in my 727. What is the standard first ratio?


2.48 I believe
Posted By: racerx

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/26/14 02:42 PM

2.76
Posted By: moparx

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/27/14 12:21 PM

oops. I goofed. 727 ratios are : 2.45 low, 1.45 2nd, 1:1 drive & 2.20 reverse.
904/999 are: 2.74 low,1.54 2nd, 1:1 drive &
2.21 reverse. sorry for the mistake.
with that being said, I think there was a low gear planetary set for the 727 that was around a 2.77 low but I don't know for sure what it really was.
Posted By: tsanchez

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/27/14 04:22 PM

I am thinking about doing the same thing, good converter is going to be 1200, then drum and sprag, brake etc. Ill have 2500 in it and still have limited converter choices(AMC) so going t400 I can borrow converters from all my friends and brake and all the other things are cheaper. I could space out the 727 but then it gets real tight with the csr shield.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/27/14 05:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


I also don't understand the sudden shift on the perception of the TF.



It's not "sudden", most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time.



Doesnt the TH400 use a sprag also




I am no expert on either. But it seems that people think only Torqueflites explode. Theres exploding TH400s too. I don't know what causes it in the case of the 400s, but it happens.
Posted By: d7cook

Re: Swapping from 727 to Turbo 400 - 05/27/14 06:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


I also don't understand the sudden shift on the perception of the TF.



It's not "sudden", most folks in the know recognize the superiority of the TH400 and have for a long time.



Doesnt the TH400 use a sprag also




I am no expert on either. But it seems that people think only Torqueflites explode. Theres exploding TH400s too. I don't know what causes it in the case of the 400s, but it happens.



Start the burnout in 2nd or 3rd and never neutral the trans at the stripe. Not doing that will cause explosions.

TH400's are heavy and do eat up some HP but they are also very tough and easy to build. Shift quality is better IMHO and the ability to buy an SFI case is a big plus.

In my case I just used a GM car with a TH 400 and swapped the motor. LOL
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