triple purpose build questions

Posted By: sixpackgut

triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:02 PM

70s dodge tradesman vans

Is it easy to put a big block in one?

Anyone know what they weigh?

I want to build a van to take to drag week that can run 11.50s, tow my car, and have a bed in it with shag carpet

Any and all opinions welcome

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:19 PM

Quote:

70s dodge tradesman vans

Is it easy to put a big block in one?

Anyone know what they weigh?

I want to build a van to take to drag week that can run 11.50s, tow my car, and have a bed in it with shag carpet

Any and all opinions welcome

YOU are a pimp my man.................

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:21 PM

I bought a bare/gutting one in 76... that was about
3400#... 109wb... small block that I fixed up like
your talking

Posted By: bonefish

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:26 PM

with the shag carpet add 359lbs,then mabey another 300 for big girls your going to attract.the big girls luvum some shag carpet.damhik.

Posted By: megajoltman

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:30 PM

You will be

it!

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:34 PM

Ok, the guy that lets me know what needs to be done to stuff a low block in a van gets a picture of a girl tied up in the van that weighs under 150

Anyone that donates a stroker small block can tie her up

Posted By: 340RICK

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 09:49 PM

You are making me want to attend drag week

Posted By: tobnHisglory

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 11:02 PM

Wow, lets keep it clean guys. I like the idea of the build, but please spare us the comments about girls tied up in the back...

Posted By: tobnHisglory

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 11:04 PM

I use to have a van similar to that. It was called a "camper special" but it was a *cough *cough cheby. Small block, tow rig, with a bed and fridge in the back. Couldn't run 11.50's though. That would be really doing something.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 11:55 PM

Wallace says 500hp to get 4000 lbs 11.50s. I think it can be done and still be mild mannered.

Posted By: CTD5.9

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/11/14 11:59 PM

Just find a 76-78 with a big block, the 400 and 440's were options. An old motorhome would also provide you with the right brackets and mounts I think

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 12:09 AM

Quote:

Just find a 76-78 with a big block, the 400 and 440's were options. An old motorhome would also provide you with the right brackets and mounts I think

I found a nice 79 for low dough. If i could find a nice van with a BB i would be it insted

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 12:28 AM

Quote:

Wallace says 500hp to get 4000 lbs 11.50s. I think it can be done and still be mild mannered.

I'm thinking thats gotta be RWHP, which means you're gonna have to make 600 or more..... Mild Mannered???

Making a van go 11.50's is one thing. That same van also being able to tow a 5000 lbs?? You are talking about two completely opposite ends of the performance sprectrum. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it done, but my guess is it would cover one hell of a budget!

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 12:51 AM

Just sold an oil pan and eng. brkts last jan. at the WPC swapmeet here in Det. I think I got about $30 total on that stuff.

You might want to consider a 4" stroker smallblock and automatic w/OD.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 01:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Wallace says 500hp to get 4000 lbs 11.50s. I think it can be done and still be mild mannered.

I'm thinking thats gotta be RWHP, which means you're gonna have to make 600 or more..... Mild Mannered???

Making a van go 11.50's is one thing. That same van also being able to tow a 5000 lbs?? You are talking about two completely opposite ends of the performance sprectrum. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it done, but my guess is it would cover one hell of a budget!

Wallace says it takes 607 hp for my 3150 lb car to run 10.08

and its mild mannered, 15" vacuum at idle. I drive it all over

I have a 470 sitting on the floor. If it fits it ships

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 01:32 AM

If you want a real dual purpose cruiser/screamer, how about a stroker motor with a supercharger? A 550 hp build will idle like a kitten and pull a big load without going crazy with cam, etc.

Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 03:56 AM

Ray,
Seriously, the easiest way is a mild low comp engine, then a 175hp hit of nitrous on a big shot plate.
Going this route will allow for a tight converter and mild gear, which will be essential to towing.

This guy runs the local brackets here in Phoenix, runs low 11's with a 440.

Attached picture 8109470-PinkVan.png

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:31 AM

Quote:

Ray,
Seriously, the easiest way is a mild low comp engine, then a 175hp hit of nitrous on a big shot plate.
Going this route will allow for a tight converter and mild gear, which will be essential to towing.

This guy runs the local brackets here in Phoenix, runs low 11's with a 440.

Well, there's your evidence that an RB block can go into a Tradesman. If it fits, a low-deck should be a little easier.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:46 AM

Build a stroker with stock port window aluminum heads and I think you can do it for sure. Look at BSB67s '67 Charger, he's well in the 11s with a stock torque converter, 3.23s, and manifolds as I recall and his car is HEAVY. Talk to him

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:47 AM

Quote:

Ray,
Seriously, the easiest way is a mild low comp engine, then a 175hp hit of nitrous on a big shot plate.
Going this route will allow for a tight converter and mild gear, which will be essential to towing.

This guy runs the local brackets here in Phoenix, runs low 11's with a 440.

That is the what i was thinking also. I am getting excited thinking about this project.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:51 AM

Quote:

Build a stroker with stock port window aluminum heads and I think you can do it for sure. Look at BSB67s '67 Charger, he's well in the 11s with a stock torque converter, 3.23s, and manifolds as I recall and his car is HEAVY. Talk to him

Yes, his car runs real good. I think I can piece this together on the cheap

Posted By: Bruce

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 05:02 AM

I had a 1977 b200 Tradesman. The big block was an option so Chrysler made motor mounts for it.
I bought the motor mounts from the local dealer. I dropped the engine and tranny out the bottom. Took the suspension apart, lowered the van down to just off a furniture dolly, unbolted everything and then jacked the van up high enough to roll the engine and tranny out.
Cleaned up the cross member and repainted it. bolted the 440 to it and rolled it back under the van with the tranny bolted up. I was only able to get it in with one header on. Put the other one on with the engine in.

I adjusted the 318 throttle linkage and kick down linkage bending, etc. to get it to work.

Really a pretty easy swap and surprises a lot of people when they get beat by my family room on wheels.
I did this over 20 years ago, so I don't know if you can still get the engine mounts new.

Also, the rear end is marginal as we broke some spider gears in ours.

Hope this helps.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 06:00 AM

My 8.97:1 493 does 500hp 600 ft/lbs with RPM heads and an MP509 on 87 regular.

For what you want to do I would put more cylinder head on my shortblock and as much hyd cam as I could put in it and still live with a 25-2800 converter. Something around 114 LSA with .600ish lift.

This should make for a nice no maintenance mid 5000 to low 6000 rpm combo that can go coast to coast for 100,000 plus miles and do it on reg gas for the most part.

Mine makes over 500 ft/lbs from 2000 on with the MP509 and it was quite happy to pull the stock converter but the power brakes and EFI didn't care for the less than 10" of vac and the 1100 rpm idle was banging the crap out of the driveline. I put in a 2800 advertised TA converter and now it's easier on the driveline but harder on the tires.

And then there is always the boost option. Cake and eat it too.

Kevin

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 12:52 PM

Another option to help your project might be a newer 727 with a lockup converter. There are companies that build converters for them with more than one lockup disc for hi hp apps. On the cam, I don't agree with a wide lobe separation for a low end torque build. It hurts both ends of the power range when you don't have big heads and valves for the cubes, and stroked 440s are hurting there.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 01:29 PM

I was thinking maybe a 8.8 rear out of an explorer for the van if its wide enough

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 02:06 PM

are you going through a middle age crisis?

can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 02:11 PM

here you go, this is like the one I bought. wont run 11 seconds but make your life a whole lot easier.and probably cost about the same time you are done
http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/rvs/4417809245.html

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 02:11 PM

Quote:

are you going through a middle age crisis? can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Think i should put a diesel in it? I was thinking about that

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 02:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

are you going through a middle age crisis? can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Think i should put a diesel in it? I was thinking about that

well you could turn it up and run 11 seconds and still be reliable. not a bad idea

Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:36 PM

I guarantee that a hopped up 440 Tradesman will get better fuel mileage than that Monaco diesel pusher! Pretty hard for Ray to go through a mid-life crisis when he is perpetually 19.

'nother pic...

Attached picture 8109861-1558572_10201730172645198_1157043323908879707_n.jpg

Attached picture 8109861-1558572_10201730172645198_1157043323908879707_n.jpg

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:38 PM

Quote:

I guarantee that a hopped up 440 Tradesman will get better fuel mileage than that Monaco diesel pusher! Pretty hard for Ray to go through a mid-life crisis when he is perpetually 19.

'nother pic...

I doubt it, mine gets around 10mpg, haven't pulled the trailer yet but friends have told me they get the same with or without the trailer. plus it's a heck of a lot nicer to sleep in a bed and not on shag

but Ray is a little kinky I heard

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 04:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

are you going through a middle age crisis? can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Think i should put a diesel in it? I was thinking about that

You dont want a diesel in the front of a van... they
are nose heavy already and a diesel would KILL all
of the front end parts... even if you could find springs
strong enough to keep it up

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 05:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

are you going through a middle age crisis? can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Think i should put a diesel in it? I was thinking about that

You dont want a diesel in the front of a van... they
are nose heavy already and a diesel would KILL all
of the front end parts... even if you could find springs
strong enough to keep it up

couldn't be that much heavier than a 440, how much do they weigh?

Posted By: Bruce

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 05:31 PM

Our old 440 van gets around 10 mpg on the road and about the same towing my son's Challenger on an open trailer, 391 posi rear.

There are lots of danas out of pickups if you want a stronger rear end. Width would probably be in the ball park,

There is a lot of room under the van for turbos, use alcohol injection and you have beast. Better get a better drive shaft too.
you could add a gear vendors overdrive.

Also, these old vans steer like an old mopar...plenty of slop in the wheel.

My son still has my old 77 van and they are a very practical vehicle. We can move a lot of things without worrying if it will rain. Being in the northwest rain in a big factor.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 05:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

are you going through a middle age crisis? can you imagine the fuel cost to pull a race car in an 11 second van.

Think i should put a diesel in it? I was thinking about that

You dont want a diesel in the front of a van... they
are nose heavy already and a diesel would KILL all
of the front end parts... even if you could find springs
strong enough to keep it up

couldn't be that much heavier than a 440, how much do they weigh?

We built up a slant six diesel and put it in a van
about a 78 drove real nice and got great mileage and
had all the towing power you would need... but that
was a one off diesel and much lighter than a Cummins

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 06:08 PM

I doubt a cummins is 200lbs heavier than a 440 if that much. my dually is not that much heavier than a regular truck

Posted By: dogdays

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 06:15 PM

Cummins 6BT weighs 1100 pounds.
R.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 06:18 PM

Quote:

Cummins 6BT weighs 1100 pounds.
R.

motor trans an all? or just the motor?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/12/14 06:25 PM

Quote:

70s dodge tradesman vans

Is it easy to put a big block in one?

Anyone know what they weigh?

I want to build a van to take to drag week that can run 11.50s, tow my car, and have a bed in it with shag carpet

Any and all opinions welcome

Call it "Coming Fast". I dare ya...

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/13/14 12:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Cummins 6BT weighs 1100 pounds.
R.

motor trans an all? or just the motor?

Motor and accessories....dry.

Typical diesel ram sits with about 4000lbs on the front axle.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/13/14 09:01 PM

Billy, those chinese aluminum heads you got, can you buy them not ported by dr j i believe you bought them from??

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/13/14 10:51 PM

Look for a Cummins 4bt with an inline pump. That would be my all time fav diesel swap candidate into old iron.

Posted By: OUTLAWD

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/13/14 11:30 PM

Quote:

Look for a Cummins 4bt with an inline pump. That would be my all time fav diesel swap candidate into old iron.

I was going to suggest this, but it doesn't look like many are making enough reliable power to push a brick into the 11's

Posted By: tobnHisglory

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/14/14 06:39 AM

Mr P Body, I would love to hear more details about that slant 6 diesel conversion. That is a build thread I would love to see. Was this something you did recently? Please tell me you have pictures.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/14/14 01:49 PM

Quote:

I was thinking maybe a 8.8 rear out of an explorer for the van if its wide enough

If you research it, there is a very narrow 8.8 out of a special option Ranger that comes with the 31 spline axles, discs,posi, and good gear ratios from the factory. They are rare, but come about 56.5 wheel mount to wheel mount. The regular Explorers rears come with Discs, posi, a good selection of gears and are 59.5 wide. I have one under a 1965 dart with 2006 Mustang GT optional 18x8.5 rims and tires, with only a spring relocate. If you go this route, grab everything that you can off the donating vehicle. The companion flange, the bolts that hold it on, and the brake lines, two from the pass side. Take a look at the axles where the seals run, those are prone to wear and leak, but can be fixed with relocate bearings available. The pinion seal can be fixed with a thin repair sleeve that slides over the damaged area. Pull the rear cover and look for rust as well to make sure it didn't get damaged from rust. If you buy it right, this is about as good a deal on a rear axle swap as there is.

Attached picture 8111833-psca12-1007-1.jpg

Attached picture 8111833-psca12-1007-1.jpg

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/14/14 02:14 PM

Quote:

Mr P Body, I would love to hear more details about that slant 6 diesel conversion. That is a build thread I would love to see. Was this something you did recently? Please tell me you have pictures.

I was working for Chrysler and they built it up for
a lighter weight diesel... but that project was dropped

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/14/14 02:34 PM

Same van?

Attached picture 8111870-IMG_4121208881988.jpeg

Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: triple purpose build questions - 04/14/14 03:28 PM

Quote:

Billy, those chinese aluminum heads you got, can you buy them not ported by dr j i believe you bought them from??

The small block "Air Wolf" heads are the Pro Comp casting which come in at 170CCs unported, 191ccs with Pro Comp's CNC job, and 220ccs with Dr J's porting.