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4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/06/14 05:27 AM

I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. What should the clearance between them be? Zero? Or?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/06/14 04:29 PM

You want it to go in without resistance , .0005 under should do it .
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/06/14 05:17 PM

Thanks John....
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/06/14 05:23 PM

Machine for relaxed fit(snug).It is more important that the bell is true to the crank centerline.With the bell attached to the engine set a dialindicator on the crank,zero it to the bell trans hole and rotate the crank,you should see no more than .008 runout.If there is more get a set of offset dowels and correct it.
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/07/14 07:19 PM

Thanks Bob.....
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/07/14 08:20 PM


If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/08/14 12:19 AM

Personally I'd rather use offset dowels than have a shop try to machine it offset. If they try to machine it offset then that means you need to have that amount of play in the trans bolt holes. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't ! Just have them bore it on center then correct the runout with the dowels.
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/08/14 04:02 AM

That was my other debate... to bore it to correct or not. I can see benefits of both ways...
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/08/14 11:50 AM

John's method is a correct way of doing it if your opening up a small diameter bell for the larger retainer.The retainer will indicate the trans to crank centerline.Usually the when correcting the excessive run out you will find the 4 trans attaching bolts already have enough slop to allow the trans retainer to conform to the bell bore.It your using the correct bell/retainer then you need to adjust with offset dowels.The bolts don't indicate(align) the trans,the center bore does.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/08/14 07:17 PM

Quote:

Personally I'd rather use offset dowels than have a shop try to machine it offset. If they try to machine it offset then that means you need to have that amount of play in the trans bolt holes. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't ! Just have them bore it on center then correct the runout with the dowels.



IMO the offset dowels are a PITA, I have limited machining skills but I've offset bored several BH's so that they dial in dead zero. The 833 bolt holes are about .050" oversized so that's no problem.
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/08/14 09:45 PM

Thanks for all the input...I will bore the BH to correct runout then.

This is my first 4 SPD...so its all new to me.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 03:20 PM

Quote:


If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout.



Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ???
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 03:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:


If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout.



Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ???



My opinion is that he planned on turning down the retainer
Posted By: Stanton

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 04:35 PM

Quote:

I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer



Quote:

... retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit.



Confusing but most of us focused on boring the bell.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer



Quote:

... retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit.



Confusing but most of us focused on boring the bell.



Myself I would most likely turn down the retainer
if it doesnt run into anything.. only because its
easier to throw in the lathe than centering the bell
on the mill... I do have 2 auto boring heads that
would do it but you still need to center the bell
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 04:51 PM

I would suggest not turning down the retainer.The difference in retainers from 4.35 ID to 4.80 ID with the bolt centers at 3.70 and 4.16 respectively, turning it down can create a weak(thin) area at the bolt centers and the drain back notch.If this retainer fails at the trans case the bearing can walk forward causing major trans gear damage.Bore the bell housing or get the correct bell.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 06:35 PM



Centering the bell in the mill would be a piece of cake with a digital readout and offsetting it would likewise be simple.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 06:48 PM

Quote:



Centering the bell in the mill would be a piece of cake with a digital readout and offsetting it would likewise be simple.



I do have the digital read out
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 08:01 PM

Quote:

Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ???



From the OP..."I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer" so I assumed bore and turn.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/09/14 08:35 PM

Quote:

Thanks for all the input...I will bore the BH to correct runout then.

This is my first 4 SPD...so its all new to me.



This was his last post so I see what he is doing now
which is no problem except time.. degree the bell
then cut it... but maybe like Bob said the drain
and a few minor things might have been a issue if
turning the retainer... its only been about 25 years
since I even looked at one
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 12:56 AM

Quote:

I would suggest not turning down the retainer.The difference in retainers from 4.35 ID to 4.80 ID with the bolt centers at 3.70 and 4.16 respectively, turning it down can create a weak(thin) area at the bolt centers and the drain back notch.If this retainer fails at the trans case the bearing can walk forward causing major trans gear damage.Bore the bell housing or get the correct bell.



Bob this is ASSuMEing he has a trans wit ha 308 front bearing , a lot of ASSumptions in this thread.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 12:59 AM

Quote:

I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. What should the clearance between them be? Zero? Or?



it looks like he is doing BOTH , I thought OD meant Outside Diameter , now I'm ASSuMEing it OverDrive , so he is turning down an OD retainer to fit a bell he is going to bore out ...

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 06:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. What should the clearance between them be? Zero? Or?



it looks like he is doing BOTH , I thought OD meant Outside Diameter , now I'm ASSuMEing it OverDrive , so he is turning down an OD retainer to fit a bell he is going to bore out ...





Ding! Ding! Johns a winner! I have a Overdrive trans that I need to turn the big 5+" retainer down to 4.8". AND, I have a bell with small 4.3" bore that needs to be opened to 4.8"to match the turned down retainer.

I guess I was clear as mud...lol.
Posted By: rowin4

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 06:19 AM

I would think it would be easier to just get a bell housing with the correct size bearing retainer hole.
Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 06:23 AM

Easier.. yes. But I got the bell dirt cheap. I figured it can't be all be that hard to bore one cast iron hole bigger? How much could that cost?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. - 04/10/14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Easier.. yes. But I got the bell dirt cheap. I figured it can't be all be that hard to bore one cast iron hole bigger? How much could that cost?



One thing you need to check is the location of the throwout bearing pivot , take a measurement and make sure the bolts that hole it aren't too close to your new hole .

Also they make the retainer you are trying to turn that into , but it's cheaper to turn it down.
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