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new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE

Posted By: dvw

new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE - 03/02/14 03:56 AM

Friends new 572. Ported Indy's, Koleno block. The radiator is full of green slimed Brad Penn and coolant. I noticed it built pressure in the radiator after about 1 minute and a half of running time. Tomorrow I'm going remove the oil feed lines at the heads. Put my pressure tester on the radiator. Then put compressor air to the head oil feeds. If it shows pressure in the coolant I know that there is a breach in that head. Another possibility is the oil feeds in the block are seeping between the head and block deck? Cometic gaskets copper sprayed between all layers. No external water or oil leaks. Oil looks fine. Any ideas?
Doug
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 05:23 AM

Pray for a easy fix Where the heads and decks cut smooth enough for the Cometics to start with 50 RA or smoother is in my head but that might not be the correct numbers
Posted By: Crizila

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 05:39 AM

Quote:

Friends new 572. Ported Indy's, Koleno block. The radiator is full of green slimed Brad Penn and coolant. I noticed it built pressure in the radiator after about 1 minute and a half of running time. Tomorrow I'm going remove the oil feed lines at the heads. Put my pressure tester on the radiator. Then put compressor air to the head oil feeds. If it shows pressure in the coolant I know that there is a breach in that head. Another possibility is the oil feeds in the block are seeping between the head and block deck? Cometic gaskets copper sprayed between all layers. No external water or oil leaks. Oil looks fine. Any ideas?
Doug

Pull the plugs before you pressure things up.
Posted By: dvw

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 06:04 AM

Quote:

Pray for a easy fix Where the heads and decks cut smooth enough for the Cometics to start with 50 RA or smoother is in my head but that might not be the correct numbers


Heads and deck were the correct finish. No smoke from exhaust.
Posted By: rbj

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 06:06 AM

Thanks for posting DVW , setting here racking my brain and believe my brain hurts. All machine work done by reputable engine builder ,recommend cometic gaskets. Praying for easy fix . Any ideas or thoughts would help. Not looking forward to a complete Tare down.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 09:54 AM

For oil to be in the coolant in that short amount of time the oil had to be under pressure, don't you think So where is the oil under pressure where it can get into the coolant, not many places I'll bet money on a crack in the block or a defective head gasket sealing where the original oiling passage is in the block to the rocker arm oil passage from the cam Good luck BTW, what block are you using?
Posted By: rbj

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 02:55 PM

It's a early Koleno block .
Posted By: rbj

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 03:50 PM

Block is brand new but does not mean that it's good right .It had a total of only 2 min and 30 sec run time that's it and lost a quart of oil not good. I have a hard time thinking it is a head gasket. But I guess by the end of today I hope to have some answers .
Posted By: Wv68charger

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 04:14 PM

I'm definitely no expert here but I remember reading somewhere about Cometics needing to be re torqued sometimes because of leaks. Hope that's all it is hate to hear when someone's brand new build is going badly fingers crossed it's nothing serious.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 04:26 PM

Quote:

Block is brand new but does not mean that it's good right .It had a total of only 2 min and 30 sec run time that's it and lost a quart of oil not good. I have a hard time thinking it is a head gasket. But I guess by the end of today I hope to have some answers .



For it to drink a qt of oil in 2 min 30 sec thats not
a seep... I would think thats gonna jump out at you..
as in a hole or something... were the heads used before..
but I would think its up top somewhere.. but in the
block really all you have in the line of oil near
water is the lifter galley.. if I'm right... oh yeah
you have the supply going up to the head(in a SB
thats in the valley)..... just thinking out loud
Posted By: fbs63

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 04:30 PM

I would re-torque the heads then pressure check. We always re-torque Cometics.
Posted By: 70satelliteguy

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 06:27 PM

DVW what Indy heads are you using? Did you remove the bottom rivet on the Cometics(one down near the exhaust ports)? I pulled my hair out before discovering that the bottom rivet interferes with the head and block sealing properly. I was using 572-13 heads and Mega block!
Mike
Posted By: dvw

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 07:25 PM

Update. The heads are new and held pressure. Then we aired up the block through the rear ports that feed the heads. It doesn't hold. No apparent external leaks. The rivets were removed as the gaskets were disassembled an sprayed. The motors coming out this afternoon. Pressure added to the cooling system forces oil from the oil feeds. There also appears to be some coolant in the oil.
Doug
Posted By: wyoming

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 08:46 PM

Thats heartbreaker, all brand new, and have an issue like that.Good luck with it
Posted By: 68roadrunner

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 09:17 PM

pressure in the oil galley would go back through the oil pump anyway, keep us posted
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 09:23 PM

Quote:

Update. The heads are new and held pressure. Then we aired up the block through the rear ports that feed the heads. It doesn't hold. No apparent external leaks. The rivets were removed as the gaskets were disassembled an sprayed. The motors coming out this afternoon. Pressure added to the cooling system forces oil from the oil feeds. There also appears to be some coolant in the oil.
Doug

There is no way that the motor will hold air pressure through the oil system, bearing clearances, lifter clearances, blowing the oil back through the pump and filter into the pan and so on That might be a way to find the leak though, look and feel for the escaping air
Posted By: dizuster

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, - 03/02/14 11:13 PM

To clarify they pressurized the block oiling system and bubbled came out the radiator....
Posted By: dvw

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/03/14 01:39 AM

Cab, your correct we couldn't seal the oil galleys, bearings, tappets, etc. But with a steady flow from the air compressor it simulated the volume through the system.Got the motor out this afternoon. Removed the valley plate. Rigged up a fitting to the coolant system from an air compressor. No head gasket leaks into the valley. Air was coming from the oil filter mounting pad, obviously a problem. The only thing I could think of was the priority oil galley or the head feed galleys were connected to the water jacket. The block has a fair amount of core shift. The right side valley was clearanced for the push rods. The right head was removed. This time we aired up the right head feed galley . It bubbled what coolant was left in the block out of the adjacent coolant passage in the deck. Apparently there was enough core shift to expose the right head feed galley to the coolant passage just below the bottom of the internal deck casting. So now the engine will be disassembled, cleaned, and those passages filled with JB Weld. I'm going to remove the #4 cam bearing and rotate it to block those passageways as well. Additionally the priority galley will get plugged off and pressure tested as well, just in case.
Doug
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/03/14 02:29 AM

I'm glad you guys found that, I have a new Koleno iron block to use in the future Oh well I'll try and remember to try checking both the oil system and coolant with pressure first before priming or running it, thanks for your help on this Murphy loves messing with hot rodders and drag racers, huh
Posted By: rbj

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/03/14 03:06 AM

Well I'm glad I can sleep tonight, now that I don't have a expensive boat anchor for a block. It's better to have caught it now lots of cleaning and some reassembling . I will take the easy fix over a boat anchor. Thanks for the Waterford car junkies for there time and help you no who you are .
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/04/14 03:39 AM

From what I've seen, if it can be fixed DVW can fix it! Was this a new Koleno block? That guy was pretty particular about quality control. (In a good way.)
Posted By: rbj

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/04/14 06:37 AM

Ya block was a brand new ,but it was one of the earlier blocks that had some core shift. They machined the oil feeds to the heads and broke into the water jacket about a 1 1/2" down from deck. I will get it all patched up tomorrow and ready for cleaning and reassembling . I'm going to drill and tap below leak put set screw in to block oil pressure, then fill upper part with the leak with jb weld to block off water jacket.
Posted By: BIG BEAR

Re: new build, oil in the coolant, UPDATE leak found - 03/19/14 05:47 PM

I just came across this post today and I am very sorry to hear this. Your block was one of the first we ever produced. When we realized that a few of the first blocks had this issue we had the oil feed holes to the heads professionaly sleeved but needless to say we didn't catch this one. We sat down with Roush to see what was causing the issue. We soon realized that the drilled holes needed to be angled out towards the valley of the block and more centered to the cast bosses in the valley by what the cutaway sections told us. As far as the valley being clearanced on one side and not the other....I believe Roush told us that it was from the tool they were using to drill the lifter holes. I know they had trouble cutting those holes because the iron was so hard.
I know this doesn't help your current situation and I'm not sure if your fully aware of mine but if there is something I can help you with or clarify by all means pm me and I will do whatever I can

Steve Koleno
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