Will a 8 3/4 Live?

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What the car 60fts and really, even what it weighs is of no consequence as to whether you will break the rear or not. WHAT matters is how well you stick the tire and how much torque it makes. If you make torque AND stick the tire, the case and pinion flexes as the pinion tries to climb the ring gear. This flex pulls the pinion gear away from the ring gear and it shears teeth. A back brace keeps you from bending the axle tubes, but does ZERO to address the chunk or pinion flex. Breaking caps, is a result of the other stuff moving around. Good caps may make the gear set last longer, but still does NOT address the problem. Even if you have a better case, such as the alum MP unit, the pinion stem is still too small. Bottom line, you are NOT going to "fix" the weakness in the 8.75, I don't care how much money you spend on it. The design is just inferior to other rears. If you make power and halfway stick the tire, you WILL break it.

As for gears, Motive bought out Richmond and all the gears are made in Italy and are actually a better quality of steel than before

Monte

Guess I`m not making enuff power to kill mine which is probably a blessing and 1.36 60`s are helping also I guess. Been adding up parts and prices and the 9" can get stupid expensive in a hurry so when I can I`m ordering a complete Dana-60 from Dr. Diff...........

Not really true......lets look at some pricing. A junkyard 9" or Dana housing are easily found. 9" are everywhere and will be dirt cheap. A pass car Dana, if you find one in a bone yard, will cost more and a truck housing will be even heavier and require more work. Both will likely need to be narrowed, new perches, brackets etc. The Ford will require a back brace. So considering initial cost and work involved, the junkyard route is probably a wash on cost or in favor of Ford.

Aftermarket cost boils down to what you want and how much you are willing to spend on a housing. The S-60 housing is NOT cheap and Fords can be had from a couple hundred, to a couple thousand, just depends on what you want.

Axles are a wash.

Brakes are a wash. If you have Mopar brakes already, you can put Mopar ends on your Ford and reuse them. Again a wash.

A Dana spool is $225 and bearings are $74........Jegs prices
A 9" spool is $152 and bearings are $40.............Jegs prices

Gears a wash or in Ford favor depending on ratio desired, as Dana is VERY limited.

So at this point, the Ford is likely $100 or more cheaper, depending on what you did for a housing and gears.

Where the Ford costs more is the chunk.......BUT...not everybody needs an $1100 MW thru bolt case. You can get a Nodular Iron Strange case that will be fine for most street strip applications for $250 or the Nodular Pro Series case for $300. You will need an aluminum or Nodular pinion support for the Ford, depending on power level and these can range from less than $200 to more than $1000. Again depends on what you WANT to spend.

So at THIS point, the Ford might be a couple hundred more than the Dana.........but to me personally, the drop out center and less weight make the Ford the no-brainer choice for me. Despite what some purists think, there is no law that says a Mopar MUST have a Dana.

Monte

This is the truth..^^^^^^^

Plus, if you break your rear end at the track, chances are really good
that you can find a spare or parts..

Definitely not so with a Dana..

I've always used a 9" and always will..

I watched Gecker change Dana gears at the track once..

No Thank You..

Chris..

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 07:51 PM

Monte,
Just a question here. Not a challenger or agument. Was the pinion snubber to help with pinion flex? I understand that it is not a good fix, and probably limits other suspension parts from working. But was that the intention of it at the onset?

No the snubber was to help worn out spings and had nothing
to do with helping pinion strength

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 07:54 PM

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Monte,
Just a question here. Not a challenger or agument. Was the pinion snubber to help with pinion flex? I understand that it is not a good fix, and probably limits other suspension parts from working. But was that the intention of it at the onset?

No the snubber was to help worn out spings and had nothing
to do with helping pinion strength

Thank you .

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 08:02 PM

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No drag type 9" assembly costs less than a comparable Dana 60.

Strange S-60 Dana 60 casting with tubes and housing ends INSTALLED
TOTAL $570

Strange Nodular Iron 9" casting $329
Strange Nodular Iron Daytona pinion support $102
Strange Housing ends $69 pair
TOTAL $500 (NO HOUSING!)

You can't buy a new, assembled 9" housing for $70.

Once again, I sell complete, NEW bolt-in 35 spline S-60 assemblies with spool and chr-mo race axles for $1795. This is $621 more than a comparable Strange 9" iron third-member WITHOUT a housing and axles.

http://www.doctordiff.com/strange-60.html

Strange makes a Street/Strip Nodular case for $250. Why do you have housing ends on the list? Why not just reuse the ends from the housing you modify.

Now I am NOT saying the Ford does not cost a LITTLE more in the end, but not near as much more as some imply. You are a Dana guy, that's fine, I get it and most Dana guys try and make the Ford look REALLY expensive. Me on the other hand am NOT a Dana guy. I don't want a heavy truck rear in my race car that I HAVE WORKED HARD ON TO MAKE LIGHT. But I have built tons of diffs on the years and if a guy wants a Dana, I will sure build him one. Again, NOT saying the Ford is cheaper, just not AS MUCH higher as many imply

Monte

Posted By: codfish

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 08:56 PM

codfish

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 09:26 PM

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codfish

I hope you don't have those mufflers hanging by plumbers tape...do you?

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 09:37 PM

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No matter how you look at it you have to weigh out how the car will be used to see if it will hold up. Sure a street car that does not see a sticky tire it will be fine. But a car thats raced with slicks or drag radials there is a good chance something in the 8-3/4 may break sooner or later. I really want to upgrade to a Dana in my 63 but my funds are very limited right now. But the price Dr Diff has a Dana for makes me want to borrow the money and go for it. Believe it or not the 8-3/4 in my 63 is all stock other then the Detroit Locker I put in it and the 4.30 gears. I know I am running on borrowed time but I dont race my car much as I mostly drive it on the street and I dont street race. In fact I have only put 4 passes on my car in the last 2 years. Funny as back in the 80's I bracket raced a 66 Dart with a 340 and 4-speed. It had an 8-3/4 from a 68 Dart in it and I broke that rear at least 4 times between ring and pinions and carriers. I finnally went to a spool and then broke driveshafts and U-joints. It was basically a stock 833 but I launched it hard as when I let the clutch out the go pedal went to the floor all the time. It ran a best ever of 11.94 at 113 and my 63 with a stock 8-3/4 has not broke anything yet and of course its much faster and heavier but it is an auto. I have raced my 63 about 10 times since 2006 and it ran mid 11's until 2011. I have raced it 4 times with the 10 second eng in it. I dont plan to race again until I beef it up or go to a Dana. If the 8-3/4 breaks I will be going thru my trans also. Ron

Ron, just goes to show how much harder the 4 speed is on the rear end.

I need to get a Dana under my car with the 4 speed, my stock 8 3/4 doesn't really stand a chance if I get sticky tires.

That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end.

Posted By: codfish

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 09:47 PM

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codfish

I hope you don't have those mufflers hanging by plumbers tape...do you?

No lol.

That was mock up.

codfish

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 10:28 PM

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No matter how you look at it you have to weigh out how the car will be used to see if it will hold up. Sure a street car that does not see a sticky tire it will be fine. But a car thats raced with slicks or drag radials there is a good chance something in the 8-3/4 may break sooner or later. I really want to upgrade to a Dana in my 63 but my funds are very limited right now. But the price Dr Diff has a Dana for makes me want to borrow the money and go for it. Believe it or not the 8-3/4 in my 63 is all stock other then the Detroit Locker I put in it and the 4.30 gears. I know I am running on borrowed time but I dont race my car much as I mostly drive it on the street and I dont street race. In fact I have only put 4 passes on my car in the last 2 years. Funny as back in the 80's I bracket raced a 66 Dart with a 340 and 4-speed. It had an 8-3/4 from a 68 Dart in it and I broke that rear at least 4 times between ring and pinions and carriers. I finnally went to a spool and then broke driveshafts and U-joints. It was basically a stock 833 but I launched it hard as when I let the clutch out the go pedal went to the floor all the time. It ran a best ever of 11.94 at 113 and my 63 with a stock 8-3/4 has not broke anything yet and of course its much faster and heavier but it is an auto. I have raced my 63 about 10 times since 2006 and it ran mid 11's until 2011. I have raced it 4 times with the 10 second eng in it. I dont plan to race again until I beef it up or go to a Dana. If the 8-3/4 breaks I will be going thru my trans also. Ron

Ron, just goes to show how much harder the 4 speed is on the rear end.

I need to get a Dana under my car with the 4 speed, my stock 8 3/4 doesn't really stand a chance if I get sticky tires.

That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end.

4 speeds are hard on more than just the rear end...

Posted By: savoy64

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 10:57 PM

"That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end." quote----for you non readers SAE tested the 8.75 and the 9 inch---9 inch good to 450hp 8.75 good to 500hp and test done in same lab by engineers--- the weak point of the 9 inch is the pinion placement at the bottom of the ring gear and for the champions of the 8.8 it has the same pinion placement----the difference came when the aftermarket chased the 9 with all kinds of add on goodies--like 20 gear ratios etc---similar to the aftermarket chasing the sbc...

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 11:30 PM

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"That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end." quote----for you non readers SAE tested the 8.75 and the 9 inch---9 inch good to 450hp 8.75 good to 500hp and test done in same lab by engineers--- the weak point of the 9 inch is the pinion placement at the bottom of the ring gear and for the champions of the 8.8 it has the same pinion placement----the difference came when the aftermarket chased the 9 with all kinds of add on goodies--like 20 gear ratios etc---similar to the aftermarket chasing the sbc...

Wonder if that Ford rear they tested was from a Cobra-Jet Mustang, with a factory nodular housing, 31 spline axles, big pinion and a locker......my guess is NO.

Monte

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/19/13 11:56 PM

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"That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end." quote----for you non readers SAE tested the 8.75 and the 9 inch---9 inch good to 450hp 8.75 good to 500hp and test done in same lab by engineers--- the weak point of the 9 inch is the pinion placement at the bottom of the ring gear and for the champions of the 8.8 it has the same pinion placement----the difference came when the aftermarket chased the 9 with all kinds of add on goodies--like 20 gear ratios etc---similar to the aftermarket chasing the sbc...

No...Monte already explained why the 9" is stronger, even stock.

Posted By: MadMopars

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 12:04 AM

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Monte,
Just a question here. Not a challenger or agument. Was the pinion snubber to help with pinion flex? I understand that it is not a good fix, and probably limits other suspension parts from working. But was that the intention of it at the onset?

No the snubber was to help worn out spings and had nothing
to do with helping pinion strength

"Worn out springs" from the factory? I don't want to derail a thread but I think there is a little more to a pinion snubber than that.

I know the pinion snubber debate has been beat to death, I just believe they deserve a little more credit than that.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 12:18 AM

"Worn out springs" from the factory? I don't want to derail a thread but I think there is a little more to a pinion snubber than that.

I know the pinion snubber debate has been beat to death, I just believe they deserve a little more credit than that.

If the front segments of the spring were strong enough
there wouldnt be a need for a snubber so all it
was was a crutch to help

Posted By: mikeysmopars

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 12:26 AM

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codfish

Since were going to going to show off our rear ends i'll jump in.

I was one of those 8 3/4 casualties and went to a 60 and luv it!

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 12:27 AM

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"Worn out springs" from the factory? I don't want to derail a thread but I think there is a little more to a pinion snubber than that. I know the pinion snubber debate has been beat to death, I just believe they deserve a little more credit than that.

If the front segments of the spring were strong enough
there wouldnt be a need for a snubber so all it
was was a crutch to help

Exactly, does the same thing as traction bars I believe.

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 12:53 AM

$280.00 for nodular housing? For 150 to 250 I can get a Dana truck rear with 4.10s ( maybe even 4.56s) and the 1320 joint already there. If you already have the 35 spline axles in the 8 3/4 use them plus the brakes and ends, chop saw works great, have someone weld with a jig( $125) all you need is the spool. How much cheaper can it be. So it weights 50 pounds more. Back in the late 60s to late 70s All the modified production and gassers used a Dana no mater what brand, the stock ford 9 inch was not strong enought yet, 99% where stick cars, we tried them but went back to the dana.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 01:20 AM

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"That said, an 8 3/4 is pretty strong for a factory stock rear end." quote----for you non readers SAE tested the 8.75 and the 9 inch---9 inch good to 450hp 8.75 good to 500hp and test done in same lab by engineers--- the weak point of the 9 inch is the pinion placement at the bottom of the ring gear and for the champions of the 8.8 it has the same pinion placement----the difference came when the aftermarket chased the 9 with all kinds of add on goodies--like 20 gear ratios etc---similar to the aftermarket chasing the sbc...

Wonder if that Ford rear they tested was from a Cobra-Jet Mustang, with a factory nodular housing, 31 spline axles, big pinion and a locker......my guess is NO.

Monte

Damn.!!!!!

I knew my motor was a slug..

I haven't broke my 9" yet, even with street gears..

Need to figure out how to get over 450hp..

Chris..

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 03:18 AM

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Damn.!!!!!

I knew my motor was a slug..

I haven't broke my 9" yet, even with street gears..

Need to figure out how to get over 450hp..

Chris..

Maybe the driver knows how to avoid breaking rear ends When I see guys buy Fabricated "9" inch rear end housing for $2500.00 and then have to have them welded up because thier tearing them up on 10.5 inch tires I wonder why we even do this drag racing deal I have a 9 inch out of a Lincoln Versiae(SP?) for my 1940 Ford Tudor sedan with a 4 inch stroked 351 windsor with Eddy Victor heads on it , I hope I don't hurt that stock, bullet proof, rear end I am finishing up changing the gears out of my Dana 60 in my Cuda, out with the Pro 5.86 gears and Mark Williams 40 spline aluminum 5 sereis spool and in with a set of used Dana Corp stock 4.56 production gears with a new Moser 40 spline steel 4 series spool. This gear change has been a real challenge, finding out which brand spool will work with which companies rear gear ratios This rear end was in the car when I bought it it was a truck rear end cut down and made for this car, it has Mark Williams steel caps on both sides, gun drilled lightened M.W. 40 spline axles,aluminum girdle, Wilwood disc brakes with dual calipers, billet M.W. 1350 steel pinion yoke and so on, hopefully unbreakable by me

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 04:33 AM

To keep the comparison fair, I added the cost of the housing ends to the 9" basket case because the same ends were already installed on the S-60 housing assembly.

You are talking about the $250 circle-track "S-case". The light weight design does not offer a great enough strength increase around the pinion pocket bearing for drag racing applications.

I compared apples to apples, so I listed the heavy duty nodular case. If I wanted to "make the Ford look REALLY expensive", I would have compared the cost of a Strange Ultra-Case.

I sell all makes of rearends, including the 9" based stuff. I can't spread "Bull Excrement", however.

Regarding the mis-informed weight argument, I don't compare a stock 3/4 ton truck Dana 60 rear to a stock, 28 spline 9" passenger car assembly. All else being equal, an S-60 weighs only a few lbs more than a COMPARABLE 9" assembly.

BTW, millions of 9" rears were originally installed in pickups, so I guess you can call it a truck rear, also.

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 07:57 AM

OP's post was about a STREET car, that will occasionally see a strip day. We ALL UNDERSTAND that a 9" or 60 are stronger than the 8-3/4" when fully prepped for warfare. The question was: will an 8-3/4 live behind a street small-block in an A-Body.

You guys are WAY carried away. God do I love Moparts....

Posted By: tubtar

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 08:37 AM

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OP's post was about a STREET car, that will occasionally see a strip day. We ALL UNDERSTAND that a 9" or 60 are stronger than the 8-3/4" when fully prepped for warfare. The question was: will an 8-3/4 live behind a street small-block in an A-Body.

You guys are WAY carried away. God do I love Moparts....

To be fair , it is a stick shift car that will presumably hook ( caltracs ) , so some of this debate is relevant.
It would not be my first choice for this car.
So.........what do you guys think , Dana or 9 " ?

Posted By: 383man

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 08:46 AM

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OP's post was about a STREET car, that will occasionally see a strip day. We ALL UNDERSTAND that a 9" or 60 are stronger than the 8-3/4" when fully prepped for warfare. The question was: will an 8-3/4 live behind a street small-block in an A-Body.

You guys are WAY carried away. God do I love Moparts....

To be fair , it is a stick shift car that will presumably hook ( caltracs ) , so some of this debate is relevant.
It would not be my first choice for this car.
So.........what do you guys think , Dana or 9 " ?

I am in the same boat as I am lucky my 8-3/4 is holding up so far in my 63. It is a street car that I like to race 2 or 3 times a year when I can. I was trying to decide between the Dana and the Ford 9" also. From what I have seen I can get the drum to drum Dana for about $1800 ? It sounds like the Dana is cheaper then the 9" and I will go with the Dana if I can get it cheaper as living on disability my funds are low and if the Dana is cheaper then its a no brainer for me. Ron

Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 01:00 PM

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codfish

WOW! ever have any problems with that exhaust?

Posted By: codfish

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 02:32 PM

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codfish

WOW! ever have any problems with that exhaust?

Kicks up a little dust every now and again

codfish

Posted By: codfish

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 02:35 PM

Fixed.

codfish

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 04:01 PM

Like a well endowed lady, can't beat that look!

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 04:27 PM

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The question was: will an 8-3/4 live behind a street small-block in an A-Body.

Mine lived behind my street/strip 340, it died on the third pass behind my 408. It was a Richmond 4.30 on a clutch type carrier and had about 60 passes and 1500 street miles. My Dart weighed 3240# at the time, the 408 runs on pump 93 and gets driven often. The converter flashes 5000. I ordered a new S-60 from Strange, it was less than $1900 shipped to my work.

I broke two stock 9" rears in a Ford truck I had. The first busted the case where the small rear bearing is housed for the pinion while pulling a truck with a pontoon boat up a boat ramp. The second busted with a stock trailer loaded with cattle. The truck had a four speed and was in granny low both times, and no I didn't rev it and dump the clutch. That was the last half ton truck used on the farm.

I know the 9" rears can be made strong but if it's stock it's no better than a 8 3/4. Give me a Dana.

Someone posted the weights of an "all iron" 9" and a S-60, IIRC it was around 40 pounds. If I'm wrong some one please correct me.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 05:04 PM

To the OP.. I'm sure he is gonna run what he has now
so just tell him to not get stupid and feel it out...
I know if its in there I would have it on the road as
soon as I could having some fun... I think if he is on
the street he will be fine if he dosent do any side
steps on the clutch.. and even with the new style multi
disc clutches he will have some slippage in the clutch

Posted By: clonestocker

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 10:47 PM

My son will beat on his car and it will see track time. It will at one point I think have a GEN3 Hemi that's boosted. He was sold on using and building another 8 3/4. This thread has been very enlightening for him. I think he's already talked to Dr. Diff.

. He was going to put rear disc brakes on it but now he's waiting to do the front and rears at the same time. Keep it going it's all great info. mtt

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 11:03 PM

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

It used to be difficult to source an original or build a truck D60..Now its just a phone call away...All new stuff...

I know a lot of Mopar guys are shoestring budget types and I am not knocking that, but I just hate breaking stuff unnecessarily..

Unless someone gives it to you for nothing, the 8-3/4 set up the way you want is still going to cost some dough....Just go to plan B and dont look back..I also like to go overboard on this type of stuff, even if it doesnt break, so I dont wind up having to replace inferior stuff(that you already spent money on) when you inevitably decide to pull out the stops..

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 11:16 PM

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My son will beat on his car and it will see track time. It will at one point I think have a GEN3 Hemi that's boosted. He was sold on using and building another 8 3/4. This thread has been very enlightening for him. I think he's already talked to Dr. Diff. . He was going to put rear disc brakes on it but now he's waiting to do the front and rears at the same time. Keep it going it's all great info. mtt

My comments are based on expereinces with 8 3/4, I love them and will use them where feasable

Your Sons car with the 4 SPEED and a low HP SB now will kill the 8 3/4 faster than a bigger HP motor will do to dead hooking it on the starting line

Been there done that

when the car dead hooks with the stick shift tranny and a sticky clutch something has to give, he will find all the weak parts, I guarentee it

Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 11:44 PM

Quote:

To be fair , it is a stick shift car that will presumably hook ( caltracs ) , so some of this debate is relevant.
It would not be my first choice for this car.
So.........what do you guys think , Dana or 9 " ?

Yes. Stick + ET Streets = not the preferred application for a 8 3/4.

Posted By: codfish

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/20/13 11:58 PM

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My son will beat on his car and it will see track time. It will at one point I think have a GEN3 Hemi that's boosted. He was sold on using and building another 8 3/4. This thread has been very enlightening for him. I think he's already talked to Dr. Diff. . He was going to put rear disc brakes on it but now he's waiting to do the front and rears at the same time. Keep it going it's all great info. mtt

Well what does dad use in his car??

Looks like you hook up pretty good

codfish

Posted By: clonestocker

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 12:14 AM

9" Furd

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 02:25 AM

BLASPHAMY!!!

Posted By: savoy64

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 02:46 AM

the pinion snubber keeps the driveshaft from rubbing in the driveline tunnel when you overload it with your 300# inlaws in the back seat--one of my buddies told a story of going to a rock concert with 5 friends and all their camping gear in a 58 chevy wagon and the driveshaft rubbed for about 900 miles until it broke---and they were still about about 500 miles out---chevy didnt use the snubber back then---- if you have a drag race car or watch the videos---when the car takes off the rear end goes up (normal suspention) that is unless your 300# inlaws are in the backseat for traction-- then all bets are off-----back on the SAE test kit was 1964 and ford had ALOT of engineering to learn before the 9 got equal----and it was the AFTERMARKET effect that caused the impressive gains by the 9 inch not ford.....and all you young guys are kind of lost in the apples and oranges comparisions when you think you can plug and play 1960 tech vs 2010 tech----its like agrueing 392/426 hemi versus a vortec or an all aluminum 572 crate motor----or in simpler words my nfl linebacker son can beat the crap out of your grandfather----so there

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:01 AM

What often gets overlooked in these "mine is better than yours" debates, is that all 9" Fords and all 8.75s are NOT created the same. You would NEVER consider putting a small pinion 8.75 out of an A-body in anything with power, same as you wouldn't put a low line stock 9" in anything with power. The difference is that the BEST 8.75 from the factory, does not approach the strength of the BEST 9" from the factory. The FACTORY 9" that came in Cobra-Jet Mustangs and the like had the BIG web 9" housing, with a nodular center, 31 spline axles, big brakes and a locker.

While I realize the chances of finding one of those in a bone yard THESE days is pretty slim, it does still happen and at one time it was pretty easy. I can remember in my younger days going junkyard scrounging for the nodular centers with lockers, because they also came in some trucks and vans. At one time I had about 20 factory nodular sections that I had gotten from scrap yards for around $50 a pop. The factory Nodular centers are REALLY strong and with a good pinion support are about as good as an aftermarket one. The big bore, 3.06 ones will take up to a 35 spline axle as well.

You CAN still find them in some out of the way "country" junkyards. I found a nodular center with 4.10s and a locker out of an older Ford truck in a bone yard just last year.........gave $25 for it.....LOL!!. Same guy sells me big web 9" housings for $10. He says the "hot rod" guys buy the small web 9" housings that look like an 8.75 because they are "prettier" for street rods and such. So he saves me all the "ugly" housings......lol!!

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:12 AM

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the pinion snubber keeps the driveshaft from rubbing in the driveline tunnel when you overload it with your 300# inlaws in the back seat--one of my buddies told a story of going to a rock concert with 5 friends and all their camping gear in a 58 chevy wagon and the driveshaft rubbed for about 900 miles until it broke---and they were still about about 500 miles out---chevy didnt use the snubber back then---- if you have a drag race car or watch the videos---when the car takes off the rear end goes up (normal suspention) that is unless your 300# inlaws are in the backseat for traction-- then all bets are off-----back on the SAE test kit was 1964 and ford had ALOT of engineering to learn before the 9 got equal----and it was the AFTERMARKET effect that caused the impressive gains by the 9 inch not ford.....and all you young guys are kind of lost in the apples and oranges comparisions when you think you can plug and play 1960 tech vs 2010 tech----its like agrueing 392/426 hemi versus a vortec or an all aluminum 572 crate motor----or in simpler words my nfl linebacker son can beat the crap out of your grandfather----so there

That's what the small "factory" snubber was for, but the aftermarket ones supposedly prevented spring wrap in a performance application. I still have a couple snubbers I use today. They make great door props for the shop. The rubber keeps em from sliding when the wind tries to blow the door shut.....LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:19 AM

Quote:

What often gets overlooked in these "mine is better than yours" debates, is that all 9" Fords and all 8.75s are NOT created the same. You would NEVER consider putting a small pinion 8.75 out of an A-body in anything with power, same as you wouldn't put a low line stock 9" in anything with power. The difference is that the BEST 8.75 from the factory, does not approach the strength of the BEST 9" from the factory. The FACTORY 9" that came in Cobra-Jet Mustangs and the like had the BIG web 9" housing, with a nodular center, 31 spline axles, big brakes and a locker.

While I realize the chances of finding one of those in a bone yard THESE days is pretty slim, it does still happen and at one time it was pretty easy. I can remember in my younger days going junkyard scrounging for the nodular centers with lockers, because they also came in some trucks and vans. At one time I had about 20 factory nodular sections that I had gotten from scrap yards for around $50 a pop. The factory Nodular centers are REALLY strong and with a good pinion support are about as good as an aftermarket one. The big bore, 3.06 ones will take up to a 35 spline axle as well.

You CAN still find them in some out of the way "country" junkyards. I found a nodular center with 4.10s and a locker out of an older Ford truck in a bone yard just last year.........gave $25 for it.....LOL!!. Same guy sells me big web 9" housings for $10. He says the "hot rod" guys buy the small web 9" housings that look like an 8.75 because they are "prettier" for street rods and such. So he saves me all the "ugly" housings......lol!!

Monte

Hey Monte, wanna sell me one of those "cheap" junkyard setups for my heap.....

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:22 AM

if it were me,id sell the house,clean out my retirement and go for the mark Williams modular 11" pro 4 link,a BARGAIN at 14,450 bucks,then u could finally use that top alcohol motor that's been laying around.....seriously though,i built my last dana 60 for under 800 bucks,including a new pair of moser axles I found at a swap meet for 100 bucks,a leightweight strange spool for 125,and a used 557 gear in like new cond for 85 bucks,housing was a truck 50 buck junk yard deal....

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:24 AM

Quote:

if it were me,id sell the house,clean out my retirement and go for the mark Williams modular 11" pro 4 link,a BARGAIN at 14,450 bucks,then u could finally use that top alcohol motor that's been laying around.....

Sign me up................

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:26 AM

If you keep your eyes open and are ready to leap when you find a deal they are out there. I found a shortened 9 inch with axles, aluminum center section, 4.30 pro gear, strange brakes, and an extra set of calipers for 500 dollars. Perfect spare for the daytona as I run a 4.30 in it. And yes i jumped and jumped REAL QUICK.

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 03:33 AM

I see rear end deals at every swap meet,i just bought a narrowed 83/4 for 100 bucks missing only the spool and gear,with 4 link brackets.you can find deals everywhere if you wait for them and search thoroughly....and to save more money,cut the ends off the 8 3/4 to use on the dana

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 06:45 AM

If you are a fairly good scrounge and can do your own fabrication work, you can build a reasonably priced Dana 60 assembly.

This combination is easy:

Core 3/4 ton truck Dana 60 (ie. 4.10 open) $150
DoctorDiff 35 spline axle package (most lengths, assembled) $300
DoctorDiff 35 spline spool $125
DoctorDiff forged steel 1350 U-bolt yoke pkg $70
Pair, Koyo spool bearings/races $65
Carrier shim pack $10
Pair, Strange Engineering housing ends $70
Set, housing end T-bolts $25
Pair, spring perches $15
Pinion seal $10

TOTAL $840 (plus parts shipping)

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:14 AM

Quote:

You would NEVER consider putting a small pinion 8.75 out of an A-body in anything with power, same as you wouldn't put a low line stock 9" in anything with power.

Monte

Have you ever seen one these "small pinion shafts" break? I haven't, lots of ring gear teeth broke though. I chuckle when I read stuff like this. The smallest diameter is the splines and all are the same, 741, 742 or 489. Using the same spline count of course.

Not saying it's a better rear than a 9", it's not. The lack of the extra pinion bearing is the weakness just like any 8 3/4. Not the pinion shaft diameter.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 10:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You would NEVER consider putting a small pinion 8.75 out of an A-body in anything with power, same as you wouldn't put a low line stock 9" in anything with power.

Monte

Have you ever seen one these "small pinion shafts" break? I haven't, lots of ring gear teeth broke though. I chuckle when I read stuff like this. The smallest diameter is the splines and all are the same, 741, 742 or 489. Using the same spline count of course.

Not saying it's a better rear than a 9", it's not. The lack of the extra pinion bearing is the weakness just like any 8 3/4. Not the pinion shaft diameter.

I chuckle when I read some of this too, because SORRY, that's wrong. Why is it you think it breaks the teeth off the ring gear??? It's because the SMALL diameter pinion is not stiff enough to not flex when you hit it with power. It tries to climb the ring gear, which effects the mesh of the gears when it flexes and breaks teeth. THAT is THE weakness of the 8.75. The pinion shaft is too small and the case is also weak right there. The spline size is of zero importance. That is past the outer bearing surface. If the 8.75 had a nice beefy nodular case and a pinion stem the size of a Dana, we wouldn't be having this discussion.......... An Olds rear was VERY strong and did NOT have a support bearing either, but the pinion stem was huge and the case beefy in that area. To make a drop out rear live, it needs one of two things....either a massive pinion stem or a support bearing

Monte

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 01:07 PM

Monty I don't buy it, I will buy the case flexing and allowing the pinion to try to climb the ring gear. The large pinions break ring gears just like the small ones do. So I guess they flex too even they are bigger than most 9". If they flexed that much we'd see broken pinion shafts.

Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 01:52 PM

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 02:07 PM

Quote:

Monty I don't buy it, I will buy the case flexing and allowing the pinion to try to climb the ring gear. The large pinions break ring gears just like the small ones do. So I guess they flex too even they are bigger than most 9". If they flexed that much we'd see broken pinion shafts.

hell I guess everyone should throw out their 9s and go to 8-3/4s, Monte has explained it as well as possible. spend your money on them if you like. I love these 8-3/4 threads

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 02:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

To be fair , it is a stick shift car that will presumably hook ( caltracs ) , so some of this debate is relevant.
It would not be my first choice for this car.
So.........what do you guys think , Dana or 9 " ?

Yes. Stick + ET Streets = not the preferred application for a 8 3/4.

My understanding was that a stick and E.T. Streets would help an 8.75 live forever. Because noone can make a stick car hook on them?

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 05:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

Note that I have never broke an 8-3/4 in my life...Because I wont run one in anything that has real power and/or a manual trans and tires that may hook...

Think about this...

The factory didnt feel safe putting 8-3/4's behind BONE STOCK 440-4v 4 speed cars. How much real power and torque do you think those made to the diff? If they had even a little faith, they would have used their 8-3/4 axle..

Again, it would be a different argument if this was 1985 and there were limited options, but why in Gods name would anyone want to run around with something with such a horrible and predictable failure rate when there are so many options available now.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 05:10 PM

easy answer

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 06:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

I found a way to make 300 hp go 9.79 @ 135+ and still live.........secret.

I carefully polish my pinion shaft..............

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 06:46 PM

Quote:

Monty I don't buy it, I will buy the case flexing and allowing the pinion to try to climb the ring gear. The large pinions break ring gears just like the small ones do. So I guess they flex too even they are bigger than most 9". If they flexed that much we'd see broken pinion shafts.

UUUhhhmmm, a Ford has a support bearing.......so how's it gonna flex. Not wanting you to "buy" it, don't have to sell it to you, because it's a fact. There is not enough room in the case to actually break a pinion off from the side load.......BUT......you ever had a broken set of gears magged. How much YOU willing to bet on the pinion NOT bent or cracked, because I will put a wager that it IS.

Monte

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 07:26 PM

1. 742 and 489 case 8.75" gears have a LARGER pinion shaft diameter than a Dana 60.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/1.html

2. New, nodular iron 489 and 742 8.75" castings with forged steel caps have been available for years.

http://www.doctordiff.com/8-3-4-nodular-iron-casting.html

3. '57-'64 Olds/Pontiac rears are strong because of EQUALLY LARGE pinion shaft and pinion bearings, but MUCH LARGER 9.3" ring gear diameter.

4. The main reason 8.75" gears break is due to the fairly small ring gear size and fairly small tooth contact area. All else being equal, if an 8.75" third-member had a 9.3" ring gear, it would be on par with the GM version.

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 07:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Monty I don't buy it, I will buy the case flexing and allowing the pinion to try to climb the ring gear. The large pinions break ring gears just like the small ones do. So I guess they flex too even they are bigger than most 9". If they flexed that much we'd see broken pinion shafts.

UUUhhhmmm, a Ford has a support bearing.......so how's it gonna flex. Not wanting you to "buy" it, don't have to sell it to you, because it's a fact. There is not enough room in the case to actually break a pinion off from the side load.......BUT......you ever had a broken set of gears magged. How much YOU willing to bet on the pinion NOT bent or cracked, because I will put a wager that it IS.

Monte

I fully understand the extra bearing on the 9" and I'm willing to add the extra material cast into the case for the bearing helps in the strength too. Yes I have broke an 8 3/4 and I full well know my pinion is broke. I can see where the teeth were that are gone now

. I'll chuck the pinion up in my lathe and see if it's bent.

I'll stick with my opinion that a stronger case and the third bearing are where the 9" has the strength advantage over a 8 3/4. Not pinion shaft size. I agree to disagree, Merry Christmas

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

I found a way to make 300 hp go 9.79 @ 135+ and still live.........secret. I carefully polish my pinion shaft..............

Yep..

And some people say that they have banged a hundred street hookers and never got an STD....

Still dont make it sensible..

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

I found a way to make 300 hp go 9.79 @ 135+ and still live.........secret. I carefully polish my pinion shaft..............

Yep..

And some people say that they have banged a hundred street hookers and never got an STD....

Still dont make it sensible..

MB

Never banged a hooker unlike some but the polishing of the pinion shaft relieves all stress rizerz...........

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wont read the whole thread, but its really silly to build anything beyond, say, 300 horse with a 8-3/4..

MB

I found a way to make 300 hp go 9.79 @ 135+ and still live.........secret. I carefully polish my pinion shaft..............

Yep..

And some people say that they have banged a hundred street hookers and never got an STD....

Still dont make it sensible..

MB

Never banged a hooker unlike some but the polishing of the pinion shaft relieves all stress rizerz...........

All kiddin aside.

I do a fair amount of diff work, and leaving the restoration jobs out of the discussion for a moment, when I price up a quality 8-3/4 build, that includes sandblasting and refinishing the housings, the axles/bearings, etc..it just never makes sense to go with the 8-3/4...

Now, I know I dont get the same type of cost break that someone like Cass gets, but I just cant work the numbers where it makes sense..

Youll wind up with something that uses original casings and isnt going to be nearly as strong on its best day.

In comparison, the fully assembled NEW S60 or what Cass offers in a redo of a truck unit is just seemingly a no brainer..

I do respect those that want to show how they can get the most out of low buck stuff...I just dont operate that way..

MB

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:30 PM

Gotta joke on some of these debates but whatever works for everyone and my 8 3/4 has lived 10+ years OR MORE runnin 10`s and faster even wheels up 1.36 60`s so maybe I`m lucky, stupid or whatever..........no argument here but when guys bust em w/360 motors manual or not, somethings not right but what do I know..........

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:42 PM

Remember guys there's a BIG difference between going to the track once or twice a year or twice a week. Even track to track or how well the cars hooks makes a big difference. I know I broke my share of them years ago and my son's broke this year but heck I also cleaned the teeth off my race prepped 9 inch in my light-weight Daytona and its a slow 1.20 sixty foot. Everything has a life span on a race car.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 08:45 PM

Quote:

Gotta joke on some of these debates but whatever works for everyone and my 8 3/4 has lived 10+ years OR MORE runnin 10`s and faster even wheels up 1.36 60`s so maybe I`m lucky, stupid or whatever..........no argument here but when guys bust em w/360 motors manual or not, somethings not right but what do I know..........

You have had great luck with your rear. Car runs excellent.
My question would be how often do you actually get it to the track, following your threads over the years you only very occasionally race it, don't you? not a weekly racer or even close...that makes a difference.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 09:07 PM

Thankxxx and you`re right, I don`t race near as much as some of you guys so that helps a lot I`m sure but some have claimed to grenade em at the track on the starting line and they have no where near my power or many passes which leads me to believe they weren`t set up right in the first place...................When I can Dr. Diff will get my $$$ for the new bad azz D-60..........

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 10:30 PM

Back in the 70s, before the great tires and tracks we have now, my Dad still had an 8.75 in his super stocker. Car was an NHRA, SS/GA record holder, so it had good parts and ran fast at the time. When we went to a national Event or division race a ways off, he carried 4 center sections. Precision machined cases, low drag bearings, Dura-Surf treated ring and pinions, billet caps, back braced, the whole show and as good as you could get at the time. Broke them like clockwork and it was NOT because they were not set up right.

After a while you really tire of changing centers and losing rounds. Put a junkyard big banjo 9" in the car, with a factory nodular center, a Phallanx roller bearing retainer, Henrys 31 spline axles and never broke another rear.

So what does something that happened in the 70s have to do with the current........they DON'T make any better parts for the 8.75 NOW as they did THEN.

Monte

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 10:38 PM

Quote:

Back in the 70s, before the great tires and tracks we have now, my Dad still had an 8.75 in his super stocker. Car was an NHRA, SS/GA record holder, so it had good parts and ran fast at the time. When we went to a national Event or division race a ways off, he carried 4 center sections. Precision machined cases, low drag bearings, Dura-Surf treated ring and pinions, billet caps, back braced, the whole show and as good as you could get at the time. Broke them like clockwork and it was NOT because they were not set up right.

After a while you really tire of changing centers and losing rounds. Put a junkyard big banjo 9" in the car, with a factory nodular center, a Phallanx roller bearing retainer, Henrys 31 spline axles and never broke another rear.

So what does something that happened in the 70s have to do with the current........they DON'T make any better parts for the 8.75 NOW as they did THEN.

Monte

How fast,what 60`s and how much did it weigh?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/21/13 11:34 PM

Come on Monte need more details...............

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 12:07 AM

Who's gona get in the last word, let the mudd slinging begin

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 12:11 AM

Not about the last work just the facts...........I`m not trying to be right could give a s$%t about that I asked a simple question that`s all.........

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 01:58 AM

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 02:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

you ever think he may be busy? i am sure he will answer when he gets back on here

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 02:40 AM

Thaught never crossed my mind but apparently it did yours........

Posted By: MattW

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 02:59 AM

I love this thread! The square peg does not fit in the round hole!
Yes it does!
No it doesn't!
Yes!
No!
Lol.
The only thing were missing is the Low band apply.
Where Elvis!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 03:29 AM

Quote:

I love this thread! The square peg does not fit in the round hole!
Yes it does!
No it doesn't!
Yes!
No!
Lol.
The only thing were missing is the Low band apply.
Where Elvis!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget pinion angle!

Posted By: 383man

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 04:52 AM

I will say one thing that back in the 70's we did not get 60's. All we got was a card with the et and mph hand written on it. Even in 1982 when I rolled my 340 Dart we were not getting 60 times as you can see. Ron

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 05:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Our Duster weighed in at 2900 and we were twisting the crap out of our 30 spline Dutchman axles.... and that combo only went a best of 10.91 (trans brake 904). It got a D-60 prior to us going to our W5 engine which was pooched and still ran some 9.8's. When the W8 goes in I'm not worried about the rear.

I broke two gear sets in the Mirada in it's foot brake days (3380 with driver). It got a D-60 when I went to the trans brake, it was also 60ft'ing in the 1.34-1.36 range in optimum conditions.

...and the king of bad days thump. Alot of times when you break the gear on launch it can shock the rear roller clutch and we've all seen what that can do. Happened to a friend of mines 11 second big block challenger... luckily he was able to walk away, but limped for the good part of a year... hunk of the front hub went up under the dash and broke all the gauges, it went in fine fashion. Shield and/or blanket my friend!!

..and thank you Monte and Cass and all the others that have chipped in technical info on this subject. Some laugh and scoff at it, others have been down the "been there...done that" path..... and I'm sure alot of us lived in a day where and "performance upgrade" was grabbing a set of 4.10's out of a junk yard!

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 06:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Our Duster weighed in at 2900 and we were twisting the crap out of our 30 spline Dutchman axles.... and that combo only went a best of 10.91 (trans brake 904). It got a D-60 prior to us going to our W5 engine which was pooched and still ran some 9.8's. When the W8 goes in I'm not worried about the rear.

I broke two gear sets in the Mirada in it's foot brake days (3380 with driver). It got a D-60 when I went to the trans brake, it was also 60ft'ing in the 1.34-1.36 range in optimum conditions.

...and the king of bad days thump. Alot of times when you break the gear on launch it can shock the rear roller clutch and we've all seen what that can do. Happened to a friend of mines 11 second big block challenger... luckily he was able to walk away, but limped for the good part of a year... hunk of the front hub went up under the dash and broke all the gauges, it went in fine fashion. Shield and/or blanket my friend!!

..and thank you Monte and Cass and all the others that have chipped in technical info on this subject. Some laugh and scoff at it, others have been down the "been there...done that" path..... and I'm sure alot of us lived in a day where and "performance upgrade" was grabbing a set of 4.10's out of a junk yard!

Again, guess luck(if u believe it that)has been on my side as I too run 30 spline dutchman axles and am goin way quicker than the 2900 lb. duster at 3200+ lbs. so I`ll run w/that for now and plan on a D-60 if I decide to race again but at this point I need tons of stuff like cage, billet drum rear etc. And I`m not taking this lightly at all and the concerns are real and for that I am greatfull...........

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 06:43 AM

I like my alum 8 3/4... 1.19 60' but its light...
Dom.... way to may 8 3/4 haters on this site so you
are wasting your time.... you been running yours
for years and its treated you well... same with my
junk... and I will continue to run by junk 8 3/4
EDIT
And mine is a street gear... never had a pro gear

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 06:45 AM

It was funny with the 30 spline Dutchmans. I had them in the Mirada and they faired pretty good so i'm quite certain that the trans brake is what put a hurtin on them when we put them in the Duster.

Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 03:38 PM

Quote:

My understanding was that a stick and E.T. Streets would help an 8.75 live forever. Because noone can make a stick car hook on them?

The normal E.T. Streets work great on a stick car. E.T. Street radials do not. Stick cars need the compliance of a bias ply sidewall to hook.

If he is in fact using the radials, I wouldn't worry as much.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 07:09 PM

Quote:

Again, guess luck(if u believe it that)has been on my side as I too run 30 spline dutchman axles and am goin way quicker than the 2900 lb. duster at 3200+ lbs. so I`ll run w/that for now and plan on a D-60 if I decide to race again but at this point I need tons of stuff like cage, billet drum rear etc. And I`m not taking this lightly at all and the concerns are real and for that I am greatfull...........

I hear ya Mike and that`s why I asked Monte for more details but as you can see he`s a "no show" on that subject and that`s fine. If I lighten up my heap more I may stick w/the 8 3/4 if not the Dr. Diff. D-60 seems like the logical route especially considering this bullet will get better heads and cam to go way faster...........

Posted By: RT540

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 08:11 PM

In the summer of 1993, I broke two sets of gears in two different 489 housings, then switched to a Dana 60.
With this RoadRunner. All steel, except hood

Posted By: OhioMopar

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 08:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My understanding was that a stick and E.T. Streets would help an 8.75 live forever. Because noone can make a stick car hook on them?

The normal E.T. Streets work great on a stick car. E.T. Street radials do not. Stick cars need the compliance of a bias ply sidewall to hook.

If he is in fact using the radials, I wouldn't worry as much.

Okay. Thanks. Oops.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/22/13 09:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Sorry, but most of the time I have WAY more important things to do than argue on the internet, especially on a Saturday night

But you want to know numbers from a combo run in the 70s.....well lets see. Tracks were all asphalt and not very good at that. You rarely saw concrete pads back then except at REALLY nice tracks. Suspension and tires were not near as evolved as they are now. You couldn't BUY anything, you had to design and make it yourself. The car was a 440 six pack 70 Challenger, that could run in FA or GA depending on weight. Super stock rules were VERY restrictive back then, unlike today. So the car was stock block, stock head casting, stock steel crank, steel rods, roller cam, Weiand 6 pack intake, reworked factory carbs. In GA trim I think it had to weigh 3410 or 3310, can't remember which. Car ran 6.50-6.60s back then on the crappy asphalt tracks with a best in the mid .40s. No such thing as a 60ft clock in the 70s. As stated above, nothing on the slip but the ET and speed. Car held SS/GA record off and on for a couple years. My dad took it from Rossi, Paul took it back, then all the local tracks starting to go brackets instead of class racing and my dad parked the car. Too expensive for a working man to travel the circuit back then. If you couldn't race at the local level to make some money, you were out of luck.

On the local level, tracks ran classes and you could run yours and 3 above it at most tracks. So locally we ran SS/D,E,F,G. On the local level, a fast enough car to hold an NHRA record usually mopped up at a small track........BUT...tech was VERY loose, so the chances of the "locals" being legal were slim to none. Most would NOT have been legal for Modified Production......LOL. But still a fast car, such as my dads won 90% or more of his races. We only had trouble with "D" cars, as this was the Hemi E body and 427 Camaro class. If a GOOD "D" car was on the grounds, it was a problem. The problem with having a dominant car locally though, is that eventually you have NOBODY to race and have to jump to higher classes. By the end, we were having to run A,B,C,D and you know what cars are in these classes. We still did VERY well though, until the tracks were forced to go to this new "bracket racing" and my dad quit. Back then, we ran Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday at 3 different tracks and usually went 4 for 4 in class at 3 tracks every weekend. Even though per class pay was relatively low, if you won that much, you did ok.

My dad was fortunate to be able to do what he did. He was an engineer with Monsanto and my mother worked at NASA. He applied engineering principles to a race car, which was not near as common back them. He wanted everything on the car "perfect". I remember him taking a crank to a local grinder and pointing out which throws he wanted a half thousandth taken off. The grinder looked at him like he was from Mars and finally said ok, "but YOU mic it and tell me where YOU want it and I will grind it"........LOL!!

How is that for "real" info......LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 01:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Sorry, but most of the time I have WAY more important things to do than argue on the internet, especially on a Saturday night

But you want to know numbers from a combo run in the 70s.....well lets see. Tracks were all asphalt and not very good at that. You rarely saw concrete pads back then except at REALLY nice tracks. Suspension and tires were not near as evolved as they are now. You couldn't BUY anything, you had to design and make it yourself. The car was a 440 six pack 70 Challenger, that could run in FA or GA depending on weight. Super stock rules were VERY restrictive back then, unlike today. So the car was stock block, stock head casting, stock steel crank, steel rods, roller cam, Weiand 6 pack intake, reworked factory carbs. In GA trim I think it had to weigh 3410 or 3310, can't remember which. Car ran 6.50-6.60s back then on the crappy asphalt tracks with a best in the mid .40s. No such thing as a 60ft clock in the 70s. As stated above, nothing on the slip but the ET and speed. Car held SS/GA record off and on for a couple years. My dad took it from Rossi, Paul took it back, then all the local tracks starting to go brackets instead of class racing and my dad parked the car. Too expensive for a working man to travel the circuit back then. If you couldn't race at the local level to make some money, you were out of luck.

On the local level, tracks ran classes and you could run yours and 3 above it at most tracks. So locally we ran SS/D,E,F,G. On the local level, a fast enough car to hold an NHRA record usually mopped up at a small track........BUT...tech was VERY loose, so the chances of the "locals" being legal were slim to none. Most would NOT have been legal for Modified Production......LOL. But still a fast car, such as my dads won 90% or more of his races. We only had trouble with "D" cars, as this was the Hemi E body and 427 Camaro class. If a GOOD "D" car was on the grounds, it was a problem. The problem with having a dominant car locally though, is that eventually you have NOBODY to race and have to jump to higher classes. By the end, we were having to run A,B,C,D and you know what cars are in these classes. We still did VERY well though, until the tracks were forced to go to this new "bracket racing" and my dad quit. Back then, we ran Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday at 3 different tracks and usually went 4 for 4 in class at 3 tracks every weekend. Even though per class pay was relatively low, if you won that much, you did ok.

My dad was fortunate to be able to do what he did. He was an engineer with Monsanto and my mother worked at NASA. He applied engineering principles to a race car, which was not near as common back them. He wanted everything on the car "perfect". I remember him taking a crank to a local grinder and pointing out which throws he wanted a half thousandth taken off. The grinder looked at him like he was from Mars and finally said ok, "but YOU mic it and tell me where YOU want it and I will grind it"........LOL!!

How is that for "real" info......LOL!!!

Monte

So no mention of weight or axles or spool(if u had one)so not to argue but todays parts are stronger but car are faster so,............

If weight, power and hooking kills em then I guess I don`t make enuff power, am light enuff and don`t hook good enuff...........sounds like I found a winning combnation.......

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 02:09 AM

Thumper are you running street tires?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 02:20 AM

Quote:

Thumper are you running street tires?

I`ve been running Hoosier QTP`s which have given me 1.36 60`s so far..........

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 02:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thumper are you running street tires?

I`ve been running Hoosier QTP`s which have given me 1.36 60`s so far..........

there you have it

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 03:00 AM

There I have what? I`ve had a real 29" Hoosier slick on it before but it didn`t 60 as good because my suspension wasn`t quite sorted out yet.

Posted By: 70dusterjohn

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 05:22 AM

Thumper I had the 8 3/4 in the duster for some time running 9.80s all the time ! And I'm not light, it was 3580 with me ! I went with a Dana just for pease of mind ! I mean I hadn't broke anything yet, but wasn't will to spend a load of cash after it broke for the tranny and rear ! That same rear is now in my kids Dart running 11.00s !

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 05:49 AM

Guess some are luckier than others plus set up plays a big role........

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 07:17 AM

Oh yeah.... and my cousin hauled his big block Duster from Wyoming to MaTS and broke his 8.75 on the first pass. Hit so hard it cracked the transmission case too. That was a bad experience!

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 07:27 AM

Quote:

Oh yeah.... and my cousin hauled his big block Duster from Wyoming to MaTS and broke his 8.75 on the first pass. Hit so hard it cracked the transmission case too. That was a bad experience!

Damn, just when I thaught all was good...............

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 08:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Monte need more details...............

Too funny..............you can argue over some dumb azz street racing show but when I ask you for details about something "real", you clam up............

Sorry, but most of the time I have WAY more important things to do than argue on the internet, especially on a Saturday night

But you want to know numbers from a combo run in the 70s.....well lets see. Tracks were all asphalt and not very good at that. You rarely saw concrete pads back then except at REALLY nice tracks. Suspension and tires were not near as evolved as they are now. You couldn't BUY anything, you had to design and make it yourself. The car was a 440 six pack 70 Challenger, that could run in FA or GA depending on weight. Super stock rules were VERY restrictive back then, unlike today. So the car was stock block, stock head casting, stock steel crank, steel rods, roller cam, Weiand 6 pack intake, reworked factory carbs. In GA trim I think it had to weigh 3410 or 3310, can't remember which. Car ran 6.50-6.60s back then on the crappy asphalt tracks with a best in the mid .40s. No such thing as a 60ft clock in the 70s. As stated above, nothing on the slip but the ET and speed. Car held SS/GA record off and on for a couple years. My dad took it from Rossi, Paul took it back, then all the local tracks starting to go brackets instead of class racing and my dad parked the car. Too expensive for a working man to travel the circuit back then. If you couldn't race at the local level to make some money, you were out of luck.

On the local level, tracks ran classes and you could run yours and 3 above it at most tracks. So locally we ran SS/D,E,F,G. On the local level, a fast enough car to hold an NHRA record usually mopped up at a small track........BUT...tech was VERY loose, so the chances of the "locals" being legal were slim to none. Most would NOT have been legal for Modified Production......LOL. But still a fast car, such as my dads won 90% or more of his races. We only had trouble with "D" cars, as this was the Hemi E body and 427 Camaro class. If a GOOD "D" car was on the grounds, it was a problem. The problem with having a dominant car locally though, is that eventually you have NOBODY to race and have to jump to higher classes. By the end, we were having to run A,B,C,D and you know what cars are in these classes. We still did VERY well though, until the tracks were forced to go to this new "bracket racing" and my dad quit. Back then, we ran Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday at 3 different tracks and usually went 4 for 4 in class at 3 tracks every weekend. Even though per class pay was relatively low, if you won that much, you did ok.

My dad was fortunate to be able to do what he did. He was an engineer with Monsanto and my mother worked at NASA. He applied engineering principles to a race car, which was not near as common back them. He wanted everything on the car "perfect". I remember him taking a crank to a local grinder and pointing out which throws he wanted a half thousandth taken off. The grinder looked at him like he was from Mars and finally said ok, "but YOU mic it and tell me where YOU want it and I will grind it"........LOL!!

How is that for "real" info......LOL!!!

Monte

So no mention of weight or axles or spool(if u had one)so not to argue but todays parts are stronger but car are faster so,............
If weight, power and hooking kills em then I guess I don`t make enuff power, am light enuff and don`t hook good enuff...........sounds like I found a winning combnation.......

The weight is IN the above post if you actually read it. I already said in another post what the rear had for parts in both the 8.75 and the 9" after the switch, but I will recap. 8.75 was back braced, precision machined case, billet caps, Dura-Surf treated gears, low drag bearings, Henrys axles, mini spool. Broke more than I can remember. The 9" was backbraced, FACTORY nodular center, roller bearing retainer, mini spool, 31 spline Henry's axles. The very SAME center section that was under my dads Super Stocker, I ran in my yellow GTX for years and years with the same parts other than the gear. He ran a 5.13 gear, I ran a much taller gear 4.10. Still have that center today in the shop......... so what else you want to know.

Monte

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/23/13 06:08 PM

Sorry Monte.............I`m goofy AND blind..............I`ll stick to my above post..............

Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/16/13 03:33 PM

Re: Will a 8 3/4 Live? - 12/16/13 03:36 PM

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