Moparts

aluminum block on the street?

Posted By: maximum entropy

aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 12:01 AM

it is one (of many) of my dreams to run an aluminum big block on the street. is this a bad idea? any things i should watch out for? seems like it wouldn't be a big deal if set up propah (there are so many o.e. aluminum engines out there). you can be mean to me if you want, i don't care. i've been married for over 30 years.
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 12:03 AM

I've got a lot of customers doing it. It's not a big deal.
Posted By: Leon441

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 12:04 AM

I'm doing it. It should be just like anything else you run it hard cold or overheat it then you have problems. It may not be as forgiving or maybe more forgiving. I am not taking the chance. I see an issue I am cutting it off.

Leon
Posted By: rickraw

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 12:09 AM

I did it, no problem. Just have a good cooling system.
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 12:31 AM

Not an issue for our KB....
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 01:33 AM

Look at how many production engine blocks are alum
that at on the road.... you wont have a problem if
the cooling system is correct
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 01:39 AM

And expansion for a sour ring seal on the street?
Me out of all people should have tried this, but I flaked and stood iron..... for now.LOL
Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 01:43 AM

My other car came with one....

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Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:06 AM

I don't know. It just seems that aluminum blocks for racing and aftermarket versions behave differently then these OEM aluminum calibrated blocks. Why is that?
Am I buggin' or is it just the cost of the blocks that keeps most peeps away?
Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:10 AM

just stay away from wet sleeves
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:29 AM

How are you supposed to cool with out a wet water sleeved block?
What's up Fred.
Posted By: challenger451ci

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:32 AM

Quote:

I did it, no problem. Just have a good cooling system.




This might be a stupid question, but why would you need a better cooling system with an aluminum block?
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:39 AM

After several attempts to seal our old al KB's sleeves with the o-rings, we finally used 'The Right Stuff". And that seems to have done the trick. I have ran it several months now with no water in the oil.
Posted By: mopardamo

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:42 AM

Wet water sleeved means that the coolant runs directly around and in contact with the sleeve. In a dry sleeved application the sleeve is in the casting that water flows around. So in a wet sleeve design the sealing of the sleeve to the casting at the ends is really important and with the expansion contraction issues between the two metals, well let's just say its a pain.

Damon
Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 03:04 AM

I know plenty of people that have run them on the street without issue.

The newest GT500 is a sleeveless aluminum block, if you wanted to get really fancy with technology I'm sure somebody could apply that same spray plasma lining to an aftermarket Mopar block.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 02:52 PM

Been running my KB block hemi on the street since 2006. No issues here...other than traction.
Posted By: Moneypit6

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 04:15 PM

Do you know what the newest KB blocks are? Wet or dry? I've been trying to justify doing this myself for the weight savings. It's a pretty expensive 60 lb or so savings!
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 04:16 PM

Quote:

Do you know what the newest KB blocks are? Wet or dry? I've been trying to justify doing this myself for the weight savings. It's a pretty expensive 60 lb or so savings!



Dry sleeve.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 04:38 PM

This is not at all trying to be condescending, but I'm just seriously curious about a few things.
You have not had the gasket leaks, cylinder wall shift from expansion, poor ring seal and rear main seal issues at all?
Are these a thing of the past? and (putting current factory OE blocks aside) why have so few builders achieved a good natured Aluminum block on the street?

When you say, street, is that saying that you drive it in traffic to and from cruises, track etc. or is it very limited to a surrounding neighborhood?
Some people here think that street may mean an"every day car, drive it anywhere" type of thing and I know that even my car is not that. I drive mine to the nearest track (about 50 miles or so) and in and around the five Boroughs to the night haunts/cruises in real NYC traffic, Though traffic can be light some times at 4:am LOL.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 04:58 PM

I haven't had any of the issues you've mentioned. From what I've been told, the older blocks w/ wet sleeves had all sorts of issues on the street...nothing like the new ones.

It's definitely not a daily driver by any means, but I drive it 25 miles one way to work every now and then. Use it as my "run around" car on weekends when the weather's nice. Spends most of the time on the highway cruising at 65-70 mph (I live out in the country). Used to go to Myrtle Beach pretty regular during the summer. Almost an hour drive, lots of traffic and heat. I've driven it to the track a couple times (about an hour one way), but I normally trailer it.

Dan at Performance Only has done a bunch of aluminum block street engines. I bought the rotating assembly for mine from him.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 05:07 PM

Thank you 9-70

That there at least gives an incentive to some that have the capital and patience to build such a motor.
Those KB's are pricey, but they do have a much better reputation then most others. If I were to go AL, I'd save my dollars and go KB, but iron will have to be the hamster for now.
BEST in Detroit was my builder and I have seen a few Aluminum projects on the operation table there.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 05:18 PM

Are these a thing of the past? and (putting current factory OE blocks aside) why have so few builders achieved a good natured Aluminum block on the street?





I believe you dont see many alum blocks on the street
is that they dont need it.. they arent making the big
power or that they dont want to spend the money on
the alum block... if its a street car and the standard
block will work WHY pay the price
Posted By: dogdays

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 05:24 PM

Because it allows one to take weight off the front end, most Mopar big block musclecars were pretty front-heavy, and use a bigger engine.

Think of it this way: You only pay for the aluminum block once, but you reap the benefits every time you drive it.

R.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 05:36 PM

Quote:

Because it allows one to take weight off the front end, most Mopar big block musclecars were pretty front-heavy, and use a bigger engine.

Think of it this way: You only pay for the aluminum block once, but you reap the benefits every time you drive it.

R.




I understand the weight issue but MOST street car guys
dont care that much... and most dont string out the
revs to worry about busting the engine... hell, most
are very happy with a stroker kit
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 05:41 PM

If it were me and I was starting anew, I'd build an aluminum block for the weight savings right where it counts most. Less power to push a lightweight down stream is a more reliable package I believe.
Though iron holds the heat better and a certain amount of heat is HP.
Sometimes the cost of something even if it is pricey might out weigh the cost of headaches and sweaty stressful labor down the road and track.
P-body, correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that your car there does not need much HP to get steaming because of its overall weight. Smart package.
Some cars just don't have the lean to be mean, so your car is performing the opposite of a heavy engine package.

I'm a street car guy and maybe a fanatic at this issue, but if I were in the position where Aluminum blocks were as reliable as they seem nowadays, I'd save my pennies and go Alcoa in a NY minute.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 06:08 PM

thanks for all the input, guys. i would do it for all the above reasons- my stock block is probably close to the limit as far as reliability is concerned. i wouldn't have to worry about that anymore, and i could (and probably will) hang a pro charger or some kinda hair dryer on it without a second thought. or spray it. and knock 100 pounds off the nose. my stock block is the only thing i worry about when wringing it's neck, and i'm gonna do something about it. the thought of spending thousands of dollars to add weight to the nose of the car (aftermarket iron block) is unappealing to me. may as well spend a little more and add lightness at the same time...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 06:30 PM

Quote:

If it were me and I was starting anew, I'd build an aluminum block for the weight savings right where it counts most. Less power to push a lightweight down stream is a more reliable package I believe.
Though iron holds the heat better and a certain amount of heat is HP.
Sometimes the cost of something even if it is pricey might out weigh the cost of headaches and sweaty stressful labor down the road and track.
P-body, correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that your car there does not need much HP to get steaming because of its overall weight. Smart package.
Some cars just don't have the lean to be mean, so your car is performing the opposite of a heavy engine package.

I'm a street car guy and maybe a fanatic at this issue, but if I were in the position where Aluminum blocks were as reliable as they seem nowadays, I'd save my pennies and go Alcoa in a NY minute.




Your correct... both of my cars are on the light side..
the P-Body is much lighter than than my Rampage but
neither of them need big HP to be quick... but both
of them have iron blocks.. I sold my alum SB block
some years back... but I have made the chassis light
to help cover the weight issue... yes if you were
starting from scratch then it might help but I need
the front weight in the race car because of the weight
bias in it now... its 48/52 with me in it
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

thanks for all the input, guys. i would do it for all the above reasons- my stock block is probably close to the limit as far as reliability is concerned. i wouldn't have to worry about that anymore, and i could (and probably will) hang a pro charger or some kinda hair dryer on it without a second thought. or spray it. and knock 100 pounds off the nose. my stock block is the only thing i worry about when wringing it's neck, and i'm gonna do something about it. the thought of spending thousands of dollars to add weight to the nose of the car (aftermarket iron block) is unappealing to me. may as well spend a little more and add lightness at the same time...




Well thats the thing... if you are at the limits of
the block AND you plan on replacing it then yes I
would go alum VS a iron one
Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 06:57 PM

I went with the aluminum and it is about 150 lbs lighter than the iron block . (137 lbs. advertised)
Like you said, it was a dream of mine to have/build this engine. I have not been on long distance drives with it yet, just around town a bit, and I am very happy with the results.
I had an issue with the head gaskets, (World Block takes different ones) and after that was fixed, it has been all good. I would do it again.
Mark

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Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 07:08 PM

Quote:

Do you know what the newest KB blocks are? Wet or dry? I've been trying to justify doing this myself for the weight savings. It's a pretty expensive 60 lb or so savings!


Mine weighed about 140#. An iron block capable of 4.500 probably weighs 300#.

Even a stock piece of crap 440 block weighs 100+ more than a KB and isn't a 3rd the strength, or repairable.


Put a price on driving over your crankshaft at 160+mph.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 07:16 PM

The question coming here is, Who is reliable enough to build an aluminum engine that will be nice and make flight.

It sounds like Performance only has a good rep and as far as closer to the North East coast, I would bet on both BEST in Detroit and BGR in PA.

By the sound of these things, it's like getting the right Doctor for the right treatment is at play. Some iron block builders may know their stuff, but not every nook and cranny on the alloy blocks to stay civil.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 07:18 PM

I went w/ the aluminum block mainly b/c a good iron block wasn't available at the time. The World blocks weren't out yet and I wasn't gonna take a chance on a mega block (if I could find one for sale) that was gonna need a bunch of machine work to be useable.
Also, I'd rather have 5 grand in a block that's repairable instead of having 4 grand or more in an iron block that becomes a boat anchor if you grenade it.

I have a cast iron 4.5" bore World Hemi block on my engine stand right now...talk about a HUGE weight difference b/t it and my KB block!!! That bare World iron block feels as heavy as a complete 440 shortblock.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 07:26 PM

Let it be said, let it be done. Some day I'll be full aluminum.
I guess I'll then have to change to FULLALUMINUMJACKET. LOL
Posted By: moparniac

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 08:21 PM

Aluminum block here.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 08:39 PM

so 6-70. I presume you are running a dry sleeve aluminum Hemi block?
I only ask, because it seems that Keith Black does not produce dry sleeve aluminum 440 blocks with all the features of their new Hemi block. I love the double cross bolted features and extra thick sleeves.
When time and budget allows, I would much rather build an aluminum Wedge before a Hemi. It's just that my car now is set up for a Wedge exclusively.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 08:52 PM

Yes, it has dry sleeves. I believe all of their blocks are dry sleeve now.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 09:11 PM

I would call KB,562-869-1518 and see if they still make both wet and dry sleeves, as far as I know all the street aluminum Hemi blocks where dry sleevess The race blocks have removeable wet sleeves
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 09:26 PM

Roger that.
Thank you.
I just got a quick response answer from Ken at KB indicating that yes, their new blocks both Hemi/440 are indeed dry sleeve. The only drawback in my configuration is that all the blocks are machined for an external oil pick up and my stock location oil pick up is already stretched to its limits because of its placement and how the engine nestles in the cradle. I don't want to be the hand that rocks the cradle at this point in time.
Anyway, good to know before hand.
60-100 pounds shaved off is juicy fruit to nibble on though.
Posted By: mickm

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 10:31 PM

so what are the advantages/disadvantages to aluminum blocks other than weight. and the cool factor?
Posted By: avenger572

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 10:52 PM

Kb block in mine now 10 years,broke a rod 3 years ago had to put a couple of sleeves and some welding. After putting about 400 passes on it sense with no issues . Some street use aswell just needs a good cooling system .

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Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/05/13 10:54 PM

Quote:

so what are the advantages/disadvantages to aluminum blocks other than weight. and the cool factor?



Advantages...lighter weight, can be repaired if damaged, can be resleeved.

Disadvantage...higher initial cost. Supposedly an aluminum block won't make as much power due to cylinder instability and heat dissipation, but that depends on who you talk to.
Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/06/13 01:08 AM

Especially if you are a true 9 second street car. Good combo you have there to be in the single digits and cruise the streets.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: aluminum block on the street? - 12/06/13 01:53 AM

Quote:

Especially if you are a true 9 second street car. Good combo you have there to be in the single digits and cruise the streets.


My pump gas 9 second(high 9s at the track, corked up on pump gas, motor only) 3450 Lb Duster had a old cast iron 400 block with four ductile iron sleeves in it and the deck brazed up, it always leaked down good and made plenty of power I have always heard, and shared, that if your running a N/A motor and want the best performance and have a choice, like in NHRA Pro Stock, use a Compact Graphite Iron block, if those are not availble ( especially for all us poor Mopar racers and engine builders) use a plain old cast grey iron block
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