Moparts
Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle
Posted By: Streetwize
Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 05:35 PM
My new buddy Josh is selling me a set of Bare W-2's A Holley single plane intake and a set of W-2 Rockers and billet hold downs. Gonna go back "old school" just like my old 340 Dart way back in the late 70's early 80's when big blocks used to scurry away in fear like cockroaches in the light from me.
This time instead of a 7800RPM solid cam 340 that only survived as long as there was Sunoco leaded 260 (Who remembers that?); this time around the 2's be on top of a 440" (360 based 71' block) that's already machined and ready to go.
I think that first set of W2's cost me close to $800 bucks in 1979, that'd probably be what about $3K in todays (nearly third world) money? This will be a pure nostalgia trip, I'll be looking for a 67-69 A body manual trans anything to drop it in once I get it all together.
for their time my W-2's were ported pretty well and once she got over 4500 it was like the little 340 did a 'jeckel and hyde' and started pulling like it had a full-time nitrous shot.
I have and had faster cars, quicker cars and built lots more powerful motors, but never had a more FUN motor than that old W-2.
The Max Wedges and Hemi of course made Mopar a legend, but the W-2 kept MOPAR a viable competitive player in the NHRA and particularly NASCAR after the age of Big Blocks were legislated away. You could argue the success of the W2 Mopar raised the game for all aftermarket small block heads, before them the idea of a bolt-on Race casting you could buy over the counter was pretty much 'non-existent' or 'exotic'.
Posted By: clonestocker
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 05:44 PM
Well said!
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 06:03 PM
I really like the W2s I have an ancient set on my present 363 inch small block, and purchased a set of new econo W2s on here for my new R3 4 inch stroke (408) pump gas motor presently under construction.
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 06:41 PM
w2's are an awesome head and they make good power. mine flow 285 @ 600 lift and it made 653 hp at 6800 rpm with 590 tq @ 4800 rpm.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 07:49 PM
Quote:
My new buddy Josh is selling me a set of Bare W-2's A Holley single plane intake and a set of W-2 Rockers and billet hold downs. Gonna go back "old school" just like my old 340 Dart way back in the late 70's early 80's when big blocks used to scurry away in fear like cockroaches in the light from me.
This time instead of a 7800RPM solid cam 340 that only survived as long as there was Sunoco leaded 260 (Who remembers that?); this time around the 2's be on top of a 440" (360 based 71' block) that's already machined and ready to go.
I think that first set of W2's cost me close to $800 bucks in 1979, that'd probably be what about $3K in todays (nearly third world) money? This will be a pure nostalgia trip, I'll be looking for a 67-69 A body manual trans anything to drop it in once I get it all together.
for their time my W-2's were ported pretty well and once she got over 4500 it was like the little 340 did a 'jeckel and hyde' and started pulling like it had a full-time nitrous shot.
I have and had faster cars, quicker cars and built lots more powerful motors, but never had a more FUN motor than that old W-2.
The Max Wedges and Hemi of course made Mopar a legend, but the W-2 kept MOPAR a viable competitive player in the NHRA and particularly NASCAR after the age of Big Blocks were legislated away. You could argue the success of the W2 Mopar raised the game for all aftermarket small block heads, before them the idea of a bolt-on Race casting you could buy over the counter was pretty much 'non-existent' or 'exotic'.
awsome!
just out of curiosity what kind of oilingsystemupgrades where used back in the day to make the 340 live and survive at those rpmsī ?
I have heard about bone stock shortblocks except for highcompression TRW pistons surviving without anything done to the oilingsystems and i have heard modern day "specialists" claim that you need to change the oilingsystem to make these smallblocks survive 7000+rpm
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 07:59 PM
Just picked them up, looks like the deck is much thicker then the original 70's castings, got enough meat to close up the chambers if I want to.
Casting Number is P4532693, looks like the casting Date is Feb 22 2001 as best Josh and I could tell.
The Intake is a Holley STREET Dominator W2, Looks about like the Strip Dommy but with a water passage right off the bypass tube. I've heard of them but never seen one before, Rather have a Strip Dommy but Hey, it's the one I have!
Rockers are Red anodized, they look like (and I'm assuming) they're Comps and they're in perfectly serviceable shape. The One piece Billet shaft supports and hold down hardware looks the same as on my Chapman Max Wedge Heads.
On a 4.06" bore I think you can go with a 2.12" intake, does anybody remember? I'll probably just go 2.08" but just wondering if anyone remembers.
Josh gave me a great "I know they're going to a good home" package deal
Got the block machined and the BPE 4.25" Crank all ready to go, once we get done with My buddies 442" AMC motor (should make about 570 horse and 600+ lb/ft) I'm gonna get cranking on the W2-440.
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 08:27 PM
We found that an out of the box Victor W2 ( what I currently run ) was 12-15 hp better than the gasket matched/blended Strip Dominator on the dyno, the Indy 360-1 is supposed to be as good or better.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 08:53 PM
That's great info, Thanks!
On the oiling systems back in the 70's....man we were turning heavy OEM style bottom ends, Kendall GT-1 40 weight and home-made deepened (taking 2 to make 1) pans.
I don't remember anything specific we did to the small blocks except knocking down the casting ridges in the heads to speed the oil return, there was some debate over whether grooved #2 and #4 cam bearings and grooved journals were pumping too much oil up top I used to put the cam bearings in slightly off center to the oil discharge lines as a 'no buck' restrictor.
Of the motors I built and tore back down the bottom ends were all healthy, we ran Isky solid flat tappets back then and tached over 8K more than a few times...One could question the accuaracy of the electronic tachs back then though, but there was no mistaking that W2 pitch change when she got it the sweet spot.
With the high RPM I was much more worried about the flywheel coming through the floorboard than the bottom end back then, no scattershield but I did weld some thick plate in the floorboards...eventually.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 10:14 PM
Streetwise thanks for that piece of information
i realy like the oldschool way of doing things,seems like it worked very well for the most part and the old saying "dont fix it if it aint broken" often holds true!
i bet that big W2 smallblock will be alot of fun.just paint it to look borring and noone will figure out what you are doing,thats the good thing about W2īs..
i have long thought about doing a 416 W2 with a comp magnum
262@.050 and .575lift cam and try to make it look like something with just a manifold and headers added,should have good street manners live a farily long life and enough power to push an abody into the high 10īs while looking fairly inocent.
Posted By: Hot 340
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 10:34 PM
Just be careful of the SS right under the valve, ive heard they can be super thin there. I would try to sonic those things if possible all though the ports before grinding. But im with you, I would seriously love to do a good w2.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 11:19 PM
@ Hot 340
Copy that, buddy!
The great, simple amazing thing about the W2 port is the basic shape is so good as cast the porting is more or less intuitive, I remember Steve Dulcich's 'hard core' porting and I agree there's not much you can't do on your own with basic porting skills that doesn't improve an already good thing....just don't mess with the already good port shape; remove restrictions around the guide bosses and blend the bowls and smooth the rough "as cast contours" and that alone can get you 80% of what's available short of dramatically enlarging the port itself. Regarding the short side I've never really done much more than smooth and blend the bowl transition being careful not to alter the basic contour.
There are many heads where very relatively subtle changes in contours can dramatically improve flow or (in the wrong hands) make them much worse.
The W2 is also a good example (to me) that flow numbers don't really tell you the whole story, I've found that heads like the W2 can outpower and outpull heads that may flow even more air on the bench. In a running motor there is so much more to the NET amount of wet (fuel suspended in air) flow dynamically passing the valve than the flowbench alone can tell you. In a running motor the intake valve (or exhaust for that matter too) is open only about a third of that minute, the other 2/3rds it's shut, the charge suspended in the plenum for that other 2/3rds of the time has a lot to do with the power than flowbench air (measured in one direction at a static valve lift) alone can tell you.
Sorry for going O/T
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/16/13 11:34 PM
I love W2's gotta love the old "it's just an iron headed small mopar, can't possibly be fast"
Posted By: BPE
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 12:36 AM
"BRE" Crank?
Bobby you're killin' me. lol
Rod
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 12:51 AM
Typo...darn!
BPE My Magnificent and Expertly Machined 4.25" Stroke Crankshaft from BLOOMER PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING
I work in High Security Areas where they have many BRE's (Bullet Resistant Enclosures) , my fingers must have slipped up
Posted By: BPE
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 12:57 AM
Just messing with you, glad to see you moving forward with it. Keep us posted.
Rod
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 02:15 AM
Interested in this as well....Thought about doing the same thing again as I had a very similar combo in 1982,but never ran the car.
Posted By: Blucuda413
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 02:45 AM
Streetwize, I recently had the opportunity to compare the Strip Dom and the Street Dominator manifolds. One of my machinists years ago told me he had not seen much difference between the Street and Strip on the dyno. I understand why. The manifold plenum and runners are exactly the same, I did some pretty close measurements with calipers. The difference is what's under the plenum. The street manifold has the water passage to improve the street driving whereas the strip model has the air gap between the plenum and the lifter valley cover. I blocked the water off on my street unit and have been very satisfied with it.
Posted By: Blucuda413
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 02:59 AM
Streetwize, please keep us informed how the W2's work on 440 ci. There has been much discussion on this forum stating that they're too small. I'm seriously considering the same thing which would be 449ci with a good set of W2's. I have a Procharger I'm considering sticking on it also. Keep us posted!!!!!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 03:35 AM
I used 15° W2's to make 665HP on this engine. I too love the W2's!!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 03:36 AM
Had Econo's on my duster for 5 years...BB guys didn't like my car much...!
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 04:15 AM
Quote:
Streetwize, please keep us informed how the W2's work on 440 ci. There has been much discussion on this forum stating that they're too small. I'm seriously considering the same thing which would be 449ci with a good set of W2's. I have a Procharger I'm considering sticking on it also. Keep us posted!!!!!
they will work great. they are not to small. mine is a tad smaller at 436''.
Posted By: cudaboy
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 05:09 AM
I've always wanted a set of w2's. I'm getting into the sb game now also, so I guess I start looking.
Dennis
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 06:10 AM
Hey my logic is a ported W2 ought to flow on par with a fairly well ported Edelbrock big block head. So I got 440 cubes in a small block package (not to mention a super light bobweight) so it ought to be pretty darn fun!
It's the same logic I used with my 427 Cobra replica, instead of an FE 427 it has a stroker small block Windsor with heads that flow as good or better...same powerband but much much lighter.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 06:43 AM
Quote:
(not to mention a super light bobweight)
What's the number?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 06:55 AM
Scott
Not sure yet but the plan is with the 4.25" crank having 2" sbc journals and using a 6.200 rod that's going to allow me to use a super light 1.26 CH SBC (for a 350 SBC with a 6" rod) Icon race piston and pin and we'll just flycut the valve reliefs for the Mopar valves
I figure the Bobweight should be sub 1800 grams or right at it, a good bit lighter than most 408-416's wind up with 1.47 ish CH.
Posted By: sshemi
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 07:41 AM
My 408 was 1800.
Posted By: Oyvind Mopar
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 07:46 AM
Quote:
Scott
Not sure yet but the plan is with the 4.25" crank having 2" sbc journals and using a 6.200 rod that's going to allow me to use a super light 1.26 CH SBC (for a 350 SBC with a 6" rod) Icon race piston and pin and we'll just flycut the valve reliefs for the Mopar valves
I figure the Bobweight should be sub 1800 grams or right at it, a good bit lighter than most 408-416's wind up with 1.47 ish CH.
If you order the pistons for an 18 degree sbc the valve notches will be close to perfect. My 
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 01:07 PM
Quote:
My 408 was 1800.
My 430 with BPE 4.125 crank - compstar 6.200 rods and longer CH piston was 1749 grams
Posted By: Kindafast
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 01:54 PM
Hey Wize , what happend to those heads you were testing a while back ?? I haven't been on here in a while. Did they ever work out on your rocky ??
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 01:56 PM
Yes sub 1800 maybe closer to 1700 and 1800 is right around where most 408-416's wind-up (as is mine at 1804), but how much lighter I'm not sure yet but I know those Icon slugs are very light compared to the standard 4" mopar stroker slugs and the ch is ideal, so why not figure out a way to use them?
By super light I was really thinking more to next to a comparable 440 cube big block.
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 02:58 PM
my 436'' with Molnar 4.125'' crank, callies 6.200 rods, diamond pistons is 1766 grams
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 04:22 PM
Joe,
Still figuring out the hook....last time out with it I babied it out of the hole and with a crappy 1.81 60' it went 7.33 and 97.76 in the 1/8th. The power is there just got to get it to launch full throttle, running 11.30's when it should be in the 10.70's has been frustrating, I'll figure it out though.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 04:54 PM
79410, yeah that's why I'm thinking around 1700. the skirt design of tht SBC ICON race piston is very similar to the SRP, My Machinist Hollis page thinks we can make them work and the bob will come up really light. The BPE 4.25 crank also has the smaller 2" journals so the rod throws themselves will be just a tad lighter as well.
The new LS style pistons are sub 400 grams for a 4.00-4.06 bore.
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 05:12 PM
2.08" intake 1.600" Valve is all that will fit. Small block mopar valve spacing is not good.
I have seen 2.100" intake and 1.600" in w2s with tight guides still had slight valve to Valve rub.
In a 358 sprint car engine I did I ran 2.100" 1.58" Valves.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 05:26 PM
Thanks!
I think a good 2.08 incher with an 11/32 stem would work great for what I'm planning. I've seen 2.12"s going in W2's back in the 80's but that may have been coupled with a 1.56" exhaust valve (and maybe a bit of fancy offset guide work) but I know it has been done before.
I know I'll be swapping out the Cam Motion 261/266 @.050 Mild Endurance ramp roller out of the 414 and into this one since it's a very streetable ramp, with the 1.6:1 rockers it will be .628/.604 lift, should be fun.
Oh and the Street Dommy intake DOES look identical internally to the Strip Dommy, I think I remember how to coax a few more ponies out of them. Not as much meat to work with as you have with a Vic but it will serve my purpose fine.
I got to admit that the angle milling to get the valves to 16 degrees and getting a quench pad in the same motion has got me thinking.
I gave $850.00 for the 2 bare heads, A full set of offset intake roller rockers, billet shaft blocks/hold downs and the intake, not too bad a deal I reckon.
Here's a pic
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/17/13 07:12 PM
Never ran W2 heads...... but have a Holley Strip Dominator W2 intake in my "wall art" collection.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 07:38 PM
I think Holley made a "pro dominator" W2 Tunnel Ram, wonder how hard one of those would be to find?
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 07:59 PM
Quote:
I think Holley made a "pro dominator" W2 Tunnel Ram, wonder how hard one of those would be to find?
I can't believe that you have a head that is supposed to flow as good as an Airwolf and you want to start all over with a head that flows 260cfm in stock form. 
Posted By: Cheatham
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:02 PM
i got me a set of w-2s back in 1989 they were on a 340 i bought on a stand iv had them to this day and still havent used them, they need guides and i never had a short block with enough piston to head clearance to use them, theyre nicely ported race versions i think 1976 date code, i gota a 572 b1 work in progress now but one day ill hope to put them on sumthn
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:03 PM
Quote:
I think Holley made a "pro dominator" W2 Tunnel Ram, wonder how hard one of those would be to find?
I have a brand new one at the shop if interested.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:39 PM
PM sent
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:45 PM
Pittsburgh,
These W2's are for a Different motor entirely.
The Airwolfs are still on the 414, it's getting quicker (as noted above) but still sorting the launch. Last time out I installed a fuel pressure gauge and it was dropping in high gear so I've found a delivery problem I suspected (but wasn't sure) I had. The 97.76 in the 1/8th pass (with a 1.81 60'
) it still went 11.39 but I clicked it at 1100'...so I think it's got the wheaties up in there.
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:51 PM
Quote:
Pittsburgh,
These W2's are for a Different motor entirely.
The Airwolfs are still on the 414, it's getting quicker but still sorting the launch. Last time out I installed a fuel pressure gauge and it was dropping in high gear so I've found a delivery problem I suspected (but wasn't sure) I had.
Good I was hoping you weren't done playing with them. After I finish up my Edelbrocks and some ford heads I want to order a procomp head and do some testing.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 08:56 PM
I tell you If I honestly had a reason to pull them I'd send you them to flow, buddy!
Now I've been around mopars for well over 30 years and when I got them I was skeptical too, but pulling out the valves and inspecting them i can;t find fault with the quality of work or the materials they're made from. On par with the edelbrocks and Bryces' work looked pretty darn good to my 'semi-ejamacated' eyes. Once you have them in your hands (The Airwolfs) you'll have an "A-Ha....Clever!" moment that you'll feel and notice, even though it might not do ANYTHING better on a 'one-way' flow bench (there's a clue there, btw).
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 09:04 PM
I won't buy an airwolf as to much money is involved but I will by the core (procomp) and go from there. The water in the floor on an Edelbrock head is definitely an issue when you step up to a 2.08 valve and try for 315 plus cfm. With that issue a 2.05 valve is probably the best option. I don't volume check ports very often but When I finish these heads they will be getting cc checked and then I will make port molds and templates so I don't have to sonic check so often.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 09:11 PM
I have the actual Engine Masters magazine Dyno set of Airwolfs for $2k (freshened up), but I agree the price for the new sets are high (as almost everything is these dayz) ...but I will say Bryce does use very high grade materials for the $$$.
getting back to the W-2's, even the raw castings next to an OEM head reminds you of what a real "game changer" these pups were. I remember helping pull 3 440's out of B and E bodies to swap in W2 small blocks in 1980 and 81, that's the equivalent today of pulling out your 3.5 V6 for a turbo 2.0 four banger
Posted By: BradH
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/18/13 10:40 PM
Quote:
... Once you have them in your hands (The Airwolfs) you'll have an "A-Ha....Clever!" moment that you'll feel and notice, even though it might not do ANYTHING better on a 'one-way' flow bench (there's a clue there, btw).
Bryce has mentioned in more than one article I've read on his stuff that he uses a valve job config designed for anti-reversion, if that's what you're hinting about. 
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 01:59 AM
Brad,
The VJ is nice and I have no doubt contributes but no.....it is anti-reversion...but it's in the port.
I spoke to Bryce about it and that I've seen the trick before and I promised him I won't reveal it. But if you see the heads up close it's obvious
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 02:45 AM
holley pro dominator tunnel ram for w2.............like this one!!
Posted By: BartonHemi
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 03:10 AM
W 2 econo's on a 405 " iron block. 9.55 @ 145 with a glide and 2800# car in 04. Block was wore out with 350 passes and no room to even hone it. I was actually trying to see if it would run fast or expire. Won me lots of money,just had to retire the setup. Still have a 395 in stock/hardblock and these old heads as a backup. Wish they still made them. Much cheaper than what I win less money with now.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 03:14 AM
@ 79410
Linky no worky ?
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 03:40 AM
i'll try again,
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 03:50 AM
Closing a deal with my buddy Todd ( Compwegde) for the Pro Dommy Tunnel ram.
Thinking the TR will even fit (believe it or not) under the Rocky hood. Massive torque, drop down to a 3.55 gear (to calm the launch issue) and shift around 6400. I can change motors in the Rocky in a little over an hour
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 03:51 AM
I can't upload pics for some reason. I got a new computer and it won't let me load any pics. this windows 8 is junk.
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 04:07 AM
try 1 more time,
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 04:10 AM
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 04:36 AM
Quote:
Email me the link buddy!
Streetwize@carolina.rr.com
emailed you. let me know if it went through.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Picking up some W-2's today, going full-circle - 11/19/13 04:39 AM
Somewhere just short of 'blown Nitro hemi' is 'Tunnel ram 440 W-2 stroker small block'