Hughes small block engine girdle

Posted By: Moparnut426

Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/16/08 05:16 PM

So they show 2 ways to install this girdle. One way is to have the caps milled .060", and put .005" preload on the caps with the girdle, the other way is to space the girdle above the caps, and have no preload on the caps, which way would you guys prefer, or trust the most for a 500-550 hp street motor. I know Im going overboard on the bottom end, but Im a little anal on these things, and just want a very reliable engine cause I really like to play, and beat on the car. Just want you guys input.

Kasey

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 12:37 AM

This is the way I did mine,,I milled the cap's and then milled the spotface (where the main stud's are) on all to a determined height then made hardened spacer's to fit the spot face at a thickness that gave a .005-.006 preload on the center of the cap, my machinist saw how they said to do it an agreed highly that the way I did it was far superior to their way of using a stack of hardened shim's to get the preload.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 12:46 AM

Where hid ya get hardened washers, better yet how did ya make them, a surface grinder, or a mill?? That stuff is pretty hard.

Will the non mill way be ok on a 500 hp engine.

Kasey

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 01:39 AM

Quote:

Where hid ya get hardened washers, better yet how did ya make them, a surface grinder, or a mill?? That stuff is pretty hard.

Will the non mill way be ok on a 500 hp engine.

Kasey

Made the spacer's at a machine shop that I used to work at out of 4140 pre heat treat and made them a little long ,then after they were heat treated then I surface ground them to length, as far as the non-mill way, I really cannot answer that, I know I didn't like the process of installing them that way, so I went the extra step and used my own method, advantages of working in a machine shop, and liberty's I am going to miss by no longer working in one.

Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 01:44 AM

Quote:

This is the way I did mine,,I milled the cap's and then milled the spotface (where the main stud's are) on all to a determined height then made hardened spacer's to fit the spot face at a thickness that gave a .005-.006 preload on the center of the cap, my machinist saw how they said to do it an agreed highly that the way I did it was far superior to their way of using a stack of hardened shim's to get the preload.

Also, do you have any pics of the installation when finished?

Thanks

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 02:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is the way I did mine,,I milled the cap's and then milled the spotface (where the main stud's are) on all to a determined height then made hardened spacer's to fit the spot face at a thickness that gave a .005-.006 preload on the center of the cap, my machinist saw how they said to do it an agreed highly that the way I did it was far superior to their way of using a stack of hardened shim's to get the preload.

Also, do you have any pics of the installation when finished?

Thanks

not real good one's but here they are.

$Attached picture 4883805-Picture\'s525.jpg$

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 02:11 AM

#2

$Attached picture 4883817-Picture\'s531.jpg$

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 02:14 AM

it almost looks like you used a grinder to machine off the caps. Did ya mill, or grind??

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 02:18 AM

milled, look closely and you will see the mill mark's, I think you are seeing a glare in the photo, these pic's show the supplied shim's, I thought I had pic's of the one's I made but I guess not.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 04:00 AM

Note the notches to clear the rods.
I have not run this one yet...but when I do know it will feel like Christmas

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 07:39 AM

The stock main caps are probally good to 550Hp+ using a good set of nmain studs, 9 secondPhils motor made over 500 hp on pump gas and he has been beating on it for over three years now, plus two years of hitting it with 250Hp of NOS now and then

Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 04:56 PM

Thanks for the pictures..

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 05:32 PM

No body has said if I need to mill them yet, Is it necessary. I was going to accially surface grind them, shat should work.

Kasey

Posted By: Troy

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 05:51 PM

Will a girdle help with this??

Attached picture 4885009-340cap(Medium).jpg

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 09:09 PM

My engine builder used the method #2 procedure where you mill the crown of the caps and align hone. He did do some other trickery that escapes me at the moment.

Attached picture 4885283-NOV29_02.JPG

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/17/08 10:09 PM

Quote:

Will a girdle help with this??

Thats whats its designed to help keep from happening.

Kasey

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/18/08 12:56 AM

Also, My kit came with a bolt on the tight area under the oul pump. Does anyone know what length stud is supposed to be there, and If I call ARP will they send me 1 stud, and nut?? I have all studs in my other engine, and want the same on this one.

Im conserned that no one here has ever just used the 1st method to put the girdle on, and I am forced to go ahead and have the caps milled/machined and do it the second way as It makes more sence having a little preload on the caps.

Thanks Guys

Kasey

Posted By: CJK440

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/18/08 01:51 PM

Quote:

Im conserned that no one here has ever just used the 1st method to put the girdle on, and I am forced to go ahead and have the caps milled/machined and do it the second way as It makes more sence having a little preload on the caps.

Does it though?? You are removing some meat off the cap and then preloading it with a piece of steel plate. I got to wonder if you are really seeing much strengthing for all that work. I always thought the primary job of the girdle was to positively locate the tops of the studs to keep the caps from moving. I think both methods do that.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/18/08 05:15 PM

Thats what I thought too, THats what I was questioning, Im might have just changed my mind.

Kasey

Posted By: Hughes

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/18/08 05:58 PM

Kasey,
I would say that over half of the ones we sell get put on by guys at home without a mahcine shop. Anything that ties the caps together will help. We like this better than the 4 bolt cross bolt mains. Drilling and notching for the crossbolts weakens the block about as much as the 2 extra bolts help it. We have had very good luck running the girdles on the small blocks. Several have dyno's well over 600HP and are still running strong with of sign of cap walk.
If you need any help installing it you can call us anytime,
Merry Christmas!
Kevin

Attached picture 4886952-TheHughesLogofourth.jpg

Attached picture 4886952-TheHughesLogofourth.jpg

Posted By: Fishmarket

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/19/08 03:10 AM

I did mine on a surface grinder. Put the caps on together and made a nice flat, all to the same height... I think I ended up taking less than .030" to get them all even IIRC. I surface ground all of the spotfaces at the same time (only took about .015" to make them all the same on mine). Using solid hardened shims too.
Its winter... what else are you gonna do with your time?

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/19/08 03:42 AM

Quote:

Kasey,
I would say that over half of the ones we sell get put on by guys at home without a mahcine shop. Anything that ties the caps together will help. We like this better than the 4 bolt cross bolt mains. Drilling and notching for the crossbolts weakens the block about as much as the 2 extra bolts help it. We have had very good luck running the girdles on the small blocks. Several have dyno's well over 600HP and are still running strong with of sign of cap walk.
If you need any help installing it you can call us anytime,
Merry Christmas!
Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Im really impressed with the quality. Super nice piece!!

You guys have been great, Im glad for the good service.

kasey

Posted By: Troy

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/19/08 07:52 PM

I'm no engineer but I'm pretty good at what I do...

With that being said, when I see most of the girdles that are out on the market to me the only thing that your stabilizing is the main studs. There is no "triangulation" going on with the main cap and the block.

Now.....If there was a bolt going through the girdle and it threads into the top of the main cap itself.....now you have triangulation and stability.....everything is tied together and sound.

It seems like most caps break....like the ones that I pictures above....at the 8 o'clock position. A 5/16" drilled hole at the 6 o'clock position is not a week area. Many of the after market caps already have a taped whole for a slide hammer to aide in removal.

This is just my

Posted By: BJS racing

Re: Hughes small block engine girdle - 12/19/08 08:01 PM

Quote:

I'm no engineer but I'm pretty good at what I do...

With that being said, when I see most of the girdles that are out on the market to me the only thing that your stabilizing is the main studs. There is no "triangulation" going on with the main cap and the block.

Now.....If there was a bolt going through the girdle and it threads into the top of the main cap itself.....now you have triangulation and stability.....everything is tied together and sound.

It seems like most caps break....like the ones that I pictures above....at the 8 o'clock position. A 5/16" drilled hole at the 6 o'clock position is not a week area. Many of the after market caps already have a taped whole for a slide hammer to aide in removal.

This is just my

I'm no engineer either but I have thought the same thing for a long time. There is still the ability for friction with the current set ups that are our there like Hughes or anyone elses.