Thoughts on Q16

Posted By: F1Scamp

Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 04:27 PM

Hey guys, that time of year where all I can think about is squeezing every little ounce of performance out of my 71 Duster. I have been thinking about trying some q16 fuel. From what I have read, the more air starved your combination is, the bigger return you will get from it. My motor is probably about as air starved combo you can come up with. I am looking for tips, tricks, etc. to get the most out of the switch. Currently I am running c16 which is probably overkill for the motor (all cast iron, 13.5 comp), but the cranking compression is around 250psi so I just want to be safe. I realize I have to jet up, but read conflicting information on how much to start with. What is the target a/f? Same as normal gas?
What about timing? Does it HAVE to be dropped? My motor likes pretty low timing but getting it so low kills bottom end tq (may put on a programmable box).
Sorry for the long post.

Thanks guys

Posted By: mopar dave

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 04:55 PM

if q16 is oxygenated fuel,vp old me 4 jet sizes up with their 100 streetblaze. no change in timing needed.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 06:12 PM

C16 is a "heavy" fuel, more suited to boosted combinations. I use it in a 1700hp blown street car. No way is it the correct fuel for your combination.

If you wanna try oxy fuel.....with your CR, VP113 may be a better choice, possibly C12, or C14 in non-oxy.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 08:02 PM

You can try it, but I'm not sure if you have enough compression to make it work. VP recommends a minimum of 14:1 compression for Q16.

I've tried it in lower compression engines without much luck. In my 514 it worked pretty well, but that engine has 15.5 compression.

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 11:41 PM

I didn't realize they made a oxygenated 113 octane fuel. It says it is good for up to 14:1 and oxygenated to street gas levels. I guess I won't know which one works best till I try them. Too bad you have to buy it in 5gal cans. Wonder if you could mix them?

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 11:44 PM

why are you running stock exhaust? are you running FAST or something.

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 11:52 PM

Quote:

why are you running stock exhaust? are you running FAST or something.

Yes, current smallblock record holder in FAST. Car ran 11.27 @ 120.5, now it has about 40hp more and 43lbs lighter. Trying to break the 10second barrier in FAST form.

Posted By: KOS

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/15/13 11:55 PM

i tried q16 against c12 in my 13.1 small block stroker it was worth a tenth but you might have to get into changing the air bleeds i couldnt put enough jet in my QF 1050dom.i believe it has 10%oxygen the 113 is 6%or8% so might be better suited in your application.i wanted to try the 113 but was hard to get ahold of around here.

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 01:17 AM

Quote:

i tried q16 against c12 in my 13.1 small block stroker it was worth a tenth but you might have to get into changing the air bleeds i couldnt put enough jet in my QF 1050dom.i believe it has 10%oxygen the 113 is 6%or8% so might be better suited in your application.i wanted to try the 113 but was hard to get ahold of around here.

Well that's encouraging. It would awesome if it would give me a tenth. Of course, the more hp I give it, the harder and harder it is to get it off the line.

Posted By: BobR

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 03:10 PM

Q16 works very well. You need 5 jet sizes and air bleed work. It also burns very clean.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 04:45 PM

Brian...

It works...Aside from being a VP fuel dealer, I have many dyno tests to prove the fuel does whats its supposed to..I have been using it since it first came out and worked with a VP engineer on getting up to speed on running this fuel safely and effectively. I have also recommended and worked through several other combos for friends and fuel customers that have run their best times on the Q16. These guys swear by it now..

There is special handling invoived..Jetting is important as is timing. Also some other more mundane stuff.

It is an IDEAL fuel for FAST type engines..Many of the records set might not even have been possible without the oxygenated fuel.

Call me if you want...I have a lot of experience and R & D with this fuel. It will work for you.

MB

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 05:41 PM

Quote:

Brian...

It works...Aside from being a VP fuel dealer, I have many dyno tests to prove the fuel does whats its supposed to..I have been using it since it first came out and worked with a VP engineer on getting up to speed on running this fuel safely and effectively. I have also recommended and worked through several other combos for friends and fuel customers that have run their best times on the Q16. These guys swear by it now..

There is special handling invoived..Jetting is important as is timing. Also some other more mundane stuff.

It is an IDEAL fuel for FAST type engines..Many of the records set might not even have been possible without the oxygenated fuel.

Call me if you want...I have a lot of experience and R & D with this fuel. It will work for you.

MB

Mike do you think I should go with Q16 or do you think the VP113 would be better suited? The motor is 13.5:1 with 250psi of cranking compression.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 05:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Brian...

It works...Aside from being a VP fuel dealer, I have many dyno tests to prove the fuel does whats its supposed to..I have been using it since it first came out and worked with a VP engineer on getting up to speed on running this fuel safely and effectively. I have also recommended and worked through several other combos for friends and fuel customers that have run their best times on the Q16. These guys swear by it now..

There is special handling invoived..Jetting is important as is timing. Also some other more mundane stuff.

It is an IDEAL fuel for FAST type engines..Many of the records set might not even have been possible without the oxygenated fuel.

Call me if you want...I have a lot of experience and R & D with this fuel. It will work for you.

MB

Mike do you think I should go with Q16 or do you think the VP113 would be better suited? The motor is 13.5:1 with 250psi of cranking compression.

Q16

No doubt...If you can get it on a chassis dyno, great..I am thinking I will be at MIR..If you want ill help you out...

MB

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 06:03 PM

I am going to try it at the Mopar day at leabonan valley in 2 weeks. If the car picks up, I will def. be using at MIR.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 06:13 PM

Quote:

I am going to try it at the Mopar day at leabonan valley in 2 weeks. If the car picks up, I will def. be using at MIR.

Gimme a call if you need any tuning assistance...The O2 reading #s cant really be relied on, like you would for conventional fuels.

MB

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 06:55 PM

Yes, current smallblock record holder in FAST. Car ran 11.27 @ 120.5, now it has about 40hp more and 43lbs lighter. Trying to break the 10second barrier in FAST form.

That is so cool I can't stand it!!!

If the Q16 can give you a tenth+, that would be sweet. Good luck with the hunt for 10s.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 07:14 PM

We have been using it for a LONG time and have helped a number of folks make the transition. There is NO Magic jet number for making the switch. VP will tell you 5% more is a good starting point. We have found some combinations have taken up to 10% more. IN my car it was about 8% more jet and a lot of bleed work. As for A/F ratio we have seem to make the best power at 12.6 or so in my B1 and the Pro Stock 99 Hemi I have. That has also been close on every car we have worked on. It will take quite a bit more fuel to get it there over a conventional fuel. Another option might be C25, it is expensive but it makes power too...

Posted By: AndyF

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 08:25 PM

There might not be too many folks still alive who know how to change the fuel curve on a Thermoquad! You don't have the luxury of adjustable air bleeds and unlimited jet sizes like a Holley.

Be sure to drain the carb after every race. That Q16 might turn the TQ into jelly if you leave it in there too long.

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/16/13 09:21 PM

Brian

I think I will try that out with you. HP Mike did make more power on the dyno (I think 16HP)with the Q but I never saw results at the track.

And draining it out of the car is a must. Eat up my accellerator pump in about 4 hrs.

One thing that did happen when using it is at about the 1000' the engine would feel like it was running out of fuel for a split second and then come back to life? This happened every time with the Q never with c16 I don't know if anyone else has had this issue.

Maybe HP Mike can make a track visit we have not seen him in a while?

Ed Cook

Posted By: OUTLAWSSAA

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 12:57 AM

I've been using it for a number of years also. Most of the comments about what needs to be changed in the tune up is correct. As far as the running out of fuel situation, I had the same thing happen and the cure was changing to a bigger needle & seat to allow more fuel into the bowl.

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 01:06 AM

Quote:

I've been using it for a number of years also. Most of the comments about what needs to be changed in the tune up is correct. As far as the running out of fuel situation, I had the same thing happen and the cure was changing to a bigger needle & seat to allow more fuel into the bowl.

I will check it out. Thanks for the info.

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Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 01:19 AM

From what I have read and what I know about my motor, it wouldn't surprise me if it picks up more than 16hp. But at this point I will be happy with whatever it gives me. Just got a 6al2 programmable box to play with also. Hopefully it will help me improve on the pathetic 1.65 60'..

Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 01:48 AM

Brian for years we wished for 1.65 sixty's really not that bad for what we are doing!

I am not expecting a tenth but any improvement for little money is worth a try.

See you at the Valley.

Posted By: KOS

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 01:49 AM

we picked up 30hp on the dyno with q16 on my buddys 14.1 sbc over c12.it made the most power over everything we tried(2 different sunocos) the only fuel that came close was mark V which is 115octane oxygenated it was 15hp down from the q16.i would try to give it a shot if you can get that t-quad setup for it.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/17/13 01:59 PM

My prediction....Get the Q16 worked out..

Duster runs 11.14...

Maxie runs 10.16...

But NOT at LVD!

Much of what happens at the dyno vs the track has to do with atmospheric conditions and underhood air dynamics..

Plus, dont forget how that stuff will stink the hell out of your trailer.

But its worth it!

Ill be at the track this fall. Ill help if needed.

MB

Attached picture 7855474-edmaxwedge(Medium)(2).jpg

Posted By: F1Scamp

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/29/13 10:22 PM

Quote:

My prediction....Get the Q16 worked out..

Duster runs 11.14...

Maxie runs 10.16...

But NOT at LVD!

Much of what happens at the dyno vs the track has to do with atmospheric conditions and underhood air dynamics..

Plus, dont forget how that stuff will stink the hell out of your trailer. But its worth it!

Ill be at the track this fall. Ill help if needed.

MB

Boy, what faith Mike... 10.99, 11.04, 11.07 at Lebanon Valley.

Well the Q16 definitely helped out. Not sure how much as Saturday was by far the best air the car has ever run in. I jetted up before switching the fuel (last time at the track the a/f was a pretty consistent 11.8) so I went from .095 primary, .131 secondary to .098 primary, .137 secondary. The a/f was 13.6. Jetted up to .100 primary, .143 secondary and the a/f was 13.1. Checked the plugs didn't see any sign of detonation. The MPH was picking up as well. Will jet up again for MIR. The biggest help also it seems I have the chassis getting to where it should be, even with a not so well prepped track I did a 1.63, 1.64, and a 1.67 leaving off idle.

Question for Q16 users. I used just under 2 gallons, which means I have 3 gallons left. The container was not open more than necessary, but will it be any good in 3 weeks when I run the car again?

Posted By: KOS

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/30/13 03:56 AM

oh ya it will still be good.....ive had it sit around after opened for months....vp says it good up until a year i believe.

Posted By: BobR

Re: Thoughts on Q16 - 09/30/13 07:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My prediction....Get the Q16 worked out..

Duster runs 11.14...

Maxie runs 10.16...

But NOT at LVD!

Much of what happens at the dyno vs the track has to do with atmospheric conditions and underhood air dynamics..

Plus, dont forget how that stuff will stink the hell out of your trailer. But its worth it!

Ill be at the track this fall. Ill help if needed.

MB

Boy, what faith Mike... 10.99, 11.04, 11.07 at Lebanon Valley.

Well the Q16 definitely helped out. Not sure how much as Saturday was by far the best air the car has ever run in. I jetted up before switching the fuel (last time at the track the a/f was a pretty consistent 11.8) so I went from .095 primary, .131 secondary to .098 primary, .137 secondary. The a/f was 13.6. Jetted up to .100 primary, .143 secondary and the a/f was 13.1. Checked the plugs didn't see any sign of detonation. The MPH was picking up as well. Will jet up again for MIR. The biggest help also it seems I have the chassis getting to where it should be, even with a not so well prepped track I did a 1.63, 1.64, and a 1.67 leaving off idle.

Question for Q16 users. I used just under 2 gallons, which means I have 3 gallons left. The container was not open more than necessary, but will it be any good in 3 weeks when I run the car again?

You definitely need more jet. It will make more power.