Moparts
Track rules - could hurt car count
Posted By: max_maniac
Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:13 AM
Just saw this posted on a local track web site and I'm sure not all cars running quicker then 9.99 will have a diaper so this very well could hurt car counts.
Now I am all for safety but where is the line.... Thoughts???
Russ
Jul
24
NOTICE
*****ATTENTION ALL RACERS*****
Do to the number of oil downs and the safety of our racers and staff, beginning Aug. 15, 2013 all cars running 9.99 and faster will be required to have an engine diaper.
Posted By: 69CHARGERMD
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:40 AM
Like they say " it all Depends". Sorry, couldn't pass up the diaper joke
I'm all for safety, but that would be a major drag, expense, and agree affect on car count.
Is this your local track Russ ?
Posted By: ProStDodge
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:46 AM
Sounds fair to me. A diaper can be had for under $200-$300 for most cars (and a pan with an absorbent liner can usually be added instead of a diaper).
The track loses time and money on oil downs.
As a racer, an "oil retention device" can be the difference between a damaged engine and a damaged engine in a wrecked car.
NHRA already requires a diaper (for National/Division events) in the "super" classes, which includes Super Street 10.90 index cars.
If a smaller track has little man power or equipment, an oil down can make the difference in whether a race can be completed or cancelled.
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:50 AM
Even though most tracks require diapers at 9.99 like NHRA rules state. NHRA took it further and extended it to the Super Street class in 2009. I last raced that class in 2008, the diaper rule was the last straw.
Everyone always says, "If you can't afford to adhere to this rule, or that rule, or this price increase or that price increase, maybe you shouldn't be racing at this level"!
Then when you quit, they all call up and ask, "What the Hell, you don't like us anymore?"
In 2006 the total amount of cars competing in NHRA Super Street topped out at 1,019 nation wide. As of right now the participation count for 2013 is 637!!
Posted By: dvw
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 04:10 AM
I bought one and a fire system. I like to be safe. Then I drive 1/8 mile with the line lock on, go figure. Personally I'm doing everything I can to keep the car out of the wall. It wasn't that tough a deal.
Doug
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 08:44 AM
Billy, I understand how you feel, but when I was watching the Div. 5 race at Cordova it seemed that 95% of the cars in S/ST should have been in S/G or S/C anyway. I'm sure that takes a lot of the fun out for the hobby racer and influences car counts too.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 11:56 AM
While I can appreciate a car being safe but the rules
are driving ALOT of guys out of racing... start adding
up the price of ALL the items to run a 9.80 pass..
by the time you put a cage in and get a license and
the safety gear its not worth the .2 in NHRA.. I just
used 9.80 as a number but IHRA is better on this stuff...
I cant get a license in NHRA but I am legal in IHRA
to run 8.50... sure wish the IHRA would have more
tracks than they do now
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 12:33 PM
We talked to Quaker and other tracks and the diaper rule is in place for the weekly bracket races and weiaved for special events.With that being said we still think that racers should consider anything that would keep them safe.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 12:56 PM
Fine with that, but it seems that ALL the rules apply at 9.99 or quicker...
Are they just affraid of driving out the weekly bread and butter if it were applied to slower cars? If we are all safer with a Diaper, then why not require it at 11.50 and faster? Don't we get oil downs from 11.50 cars? Don't those guys put more runs on a drivetrain than any other racers before a tear down?
Shouldn't trans sheilds be required for any car with a manual automatic? I mean lets be real if safer is better, then why is it all weighted on the 9.99 guys?
And honestly, I do not have a draster pan and the steering still goes thru the pan, so I have no clue how a daiper would even be possible at this point.
Posted By: Eric
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 01:21 PM
If the diaper in my basement (at the time) was on my car at Farmington when I kicked a rod I probably would not of tagged the guard rail...
...it's on now
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 01:56 PM
To many unnessary Daymn rules = to much wasted $$$ that could go toward more needed things on the race-car.
Lets see a show of hands on how many have wives that already say we are spending to much $$$ on our race-cars.
The only people that like to see rules like this are the ones who want to see the car count go down,they think thats the only chance they have of winning!
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 02:29 PM
I for one don't think the rules for any of the speeds/et are in anyway out of hand,, i fact those are just basic min , street cars only require a helmet, seat belt!
sprotsman not much more depending on slicks /driveshaft loop,
pro, still the same ,
So all the rules are just basic rules until you get to 10.99 or faster,
then still very basic unless you have a full cage, then it is realated to better belts and some padding around your head! WOW 19 bucks that break ya!
You the racer determans what and how fast your car goes not any racing body!
When it comes to saftey seams that is the very first place everyone wants to cut out!
hard to understand that stupid way of thinking
IF SOMETHING SHOULD HAPPEN,, you ,,your wie , kids will be happy you had it and the track required you to have it on!
I have zero tolerance for those who decide that safety should be last,, but yet build a first class race car spare no exspence on motor car , bt stupid on saftey of it for other and spectators a like ,
This topic is a no brainer , unless you have no brain,, by the looks of the replys some lack!
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 02:41 PM
Ahhhh 2006 Billy. That's back when the house we just sold for 129k would have brought 225k in a week. Back when we had 9 guys in the shop and you could still knock down 120-130 hrs a pay period....now 80 is "ok", and were at six techs. Those were different times.
Heck back in those days I even threw the Mirada in the trailer to make a 18hr round trip drive for a single day Mopar event at Sacramento. I'm thinking at that level a retaining device wouldn't break the deal, but then again, I do realize their is always that proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. I'm at the other end of the stupidity spectrum. I feel my combo coming together should be nines capable, and am preparing for such...... and I don't even run a class. Waste of money? Probably... but it should be fun for awhile!!
Posted By: rickseeman
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:01 PM
When the diaper rules started to come out I reacted like everyone else. I hate more rules, the additional cost, more stuff on the car, in my way when I want to work on it. Then my knowledge base was expanded.
The purpose of a diaper is to make you look smart. If you ever blow up an engine (I know, you think that will never happen to you) it will most likely blow at maximum load. Right before the finish line. You are going at near maximum speed. Things can get real ugly, real fast. If oil/water gets on your tires and you crash, you will find out why a diaper makes you look smart.
Posted By: cgall
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 03:47 PM
Russ, Edgewater implemented that rule a few years ago. They lost a few cars, but many others dialed 6.40 or slower. Most of the cars that run quicker than that are full chassis cars, which make diaper fitment easy. There is only 1 Mopar with a k-member that runs S/P on a weekly basis and he dials 6.50's.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 04:21 PM
We are running 10.10's right now, and in the 1/8th we are in the high 6.40's depending on outside temp so we have been getting the car ready to be legal and certainly want to be legal, but what is the reasoning behind all of the rules being apllied at 9.99/6.50 level...Can anyone post a complete list?
Seems like lately, there a bunch of new ones I never heard of for 9.99 and they are going to enforce them where I race. The toe hook thing I thought was for cars a lot fast than us, and the solid throttle thing too...Now a diaper...What about fire supression? Window glass?
Posted By: RBDuster
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 04:58 PM
That is why I am building a low budget 383. I don't need a license, I don't have to wear the 3 layer suit in the summer plus I can run for the same purse as the other guys. I like going fast, but it is not what it use to be. I plan on only racing 1-2 weekends a month next year at my local tracks until the car is sold and then I am done!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 05:42 PM
I'm not in that class, probably never will be but Summit has them for $119 and shipping is free. I don't see that as a HUGE cost, especially if you figure how much it costs to run a 9 second car.
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 07:43 PM
They implemented a similar rule at our track. The rule was any vehicle running faster that 12.99 required a diaper or a pan. You could choose not run one but if you oiled the track you would be subjected to a $500.00 fine. However, if you have a diaper and hurt the engine but did not oil the track the ownership would give the racer $250.00 if the diaper was damaged There was a huge uproar initially and I was in total agreement. Not necessary about the rule because I am an advocate of diapers or lower engine containment devices for the safety of it. However, in a day and age when we are losing racers at a rapid rate I thought this was a step in the wrong direction if we are trying to attract new people to participate especially in the slower classes.
I guess the part that I have an issue with is this. The sanctioning body's, namely NHRA are putting their foot down with regards to engine diapers. The main idea is to stop oil and debris from getting under the tires in the case of an incident. (Actually I don't think that is the real reason. I know at our track it was all about the cost to clean up!) Then I suggest that they outlaw all dragster headers that point straight at the middle of the rear tire. We had a big buck race here on the weekend and there must have been 60 dragsters all with the same headers. If a motor drops a valve and the diaper is required I will guarantee there is sharp stuff coming out of the exhaust just dying to cut a tire.
My guess is NHRA does not want to pi$$ off the big money guys with there fancy stacker that has 6 dragsters in it, but I don't think they are overly concerned about the regular guy that is scraping every penny together to go to the next race.
Just my 2 cents
Posted By: gofish
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 07:49 PM
We all know the real driver in this instance is down time and the track's expense of clean up, safety is secondary to the track owner.
On the other hand, I have to wonder why guys continually put money into their cars to go faster but squeal when it comes to spending money on the required safety gear. As has been said, speed costs.
Personally, I never had a car fast enough to even require a roll bar, but I had one anyway. I also added several other safety features that were required for faster cars, partly to be safe and partly to be ready in case I ever found enough funds to go faster. I never got caught up in the need to be the fastest car on the track or in my class. I actually took perverse pleasure in leaving several seconds ahead of some of my competition, it was amazing how hard it was for them to not redlight in those circumstances.
Danny
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 08:08 PM
Quote:
We all know the real driver in this instance is down time and the track's expense of clean up, safety is secondary to the track owner.
On the other hand, I have to wonder why guys continually put money into their cars to go faster but squeal when it comes to spending money on the required safety gear. As has been said, speed costs.
Personally, I never had a car fast enough to even require a roll bar, but I had one anyway. I also added several other safety features that were required for faster cars, partly to be safe and partly to be ready in case I ever found enough funds to go faster. I never got caught up in the need to be the fastest car on the track or in my class. I actually took perverse pleasure in leaving several seconds ahead of some of my competition, it was amazing how hard it was for them to not redlight in those circumstances.
Danny
Me personally I loved chasing down the slower cars. I had the whole race in front of me. As for the diaper, my car is getting one before it goes out again.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 08:42 PM
On the other hand, I have to wonder why guys continually put money into their cars to go faster but squeal when it comes to spending money on the required safety gear. As has been said, speed costs.
Danny
I'm one that squeals then... the damn NHRA keeps
changing the rules when they need something.. when
I built my car.. it certed to 7.50... a couple years
later they changed the rules and its now a 8.50 cert
car... now its a diaper and header tethers, locking
dip sticks when is gonna stops... If the guys want
to play the "WHAT IF" game then we would be
swamped in rules... maybe we should put turn signals
back on them.. Force cut off Capps and hung up
his chute... there are so many what ifs that it
would put any little guy out of racing... thats
why I'm selling the race car and I'll go back to
running 10.0 and slower in a street car
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/25/13 10:50 PM
Quote:
On the other hand, I have to wonder why guys continually put money into their cars to go faster but squeal when it comes to spending money on the required safety gear. As has been said, speed costs.
Danny
I'm one that squeals then... the damn NHRA keeps
changing the rules when they need something.. when
I built my car.. it certed to 7.50... a couple years
later they changed the rules and its now a 8.50 cert
car... now its a diaper and header tethers, locking
dip sticks when is gonna stops... If the guys want
to play the "WHAT IF" game then we would be
swamped in rules... maybe we should put turn signals
back on them.. Force cut off Capps and hung up
his chute... there are so many what ifs that it
would put any little guy out of racing... thats
why I'm selling the race car and I'll go back to
running 10.0 and slower in a street car
Most of the ones that love those rules don't have a car fast enough to have to buy all that crap every time they want to change or add something,and the others are the ones who can't win,and are looking for any way to decrease the car count hoping then they will have a chance!I have 2 T/D Big $$$ Bracket Race dragster's and both will run in the 6's in the 1/4 mile all motor,an the Red one has a 500 horse-power NOS an the Black has a 3 stage NOS!Its my $$$ and lots of it that built these cars and I drive them,I know what they need and don't need!And as long as there are plenty of tracks to race at that don't enforce these rules I'm not gonna spend my $$$ on that unnessary crap!I like to spend my $$$ racing,not letting the car sit while I have to save up $$$ to buy things!
PS Look at how many people on here after spending all the $$$ and time to build their cars,are having to slow them down and some just giving up selling their cars simply because they just can not afford to keep jumping through hoops with all the new rules an rule changes.
These people that spent all that $$$ are not Stoopid,they did not build un-safe cars!
There is just NO WAY thats a good thing for the sport of Drag-Racing!
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 12:18 AM
Quote:
Fine with that, but it seems that ALL the rules apply at 9.99 or quicker...
Are they just affraid of driving out the weekly bread and butter if it were applied to slower cars? If we are all safer with a Diaper, then why not require it at 11.50 and faster? Don't we get oil downs from 11.50 cars? Don't those guys put more runs on a drivetrain than any other racers before a tear down?
Shouldn't trans sheilds be required for any car with a manual automatic? I mean lets be real if safer is better, then why is it all weighted on the 9.99 guys?
And honestly, I do not have a draster pan and the steering still goes thru the pan, so I have no clue how a daiper would even be possible at this point.
I saw more oil downs from the slower cars 11-12sec stuff than I ever did from the faster stuff anyway.
But I do believe it will kill the car count, still to many small tracks that let that stuff slide.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 01:24 AM
Quote:
Me personally I loved chasing down the slower cars. I had the whole race in front of me. As for the diaper, my car is getting one before it goes out again.
.....for the GEEtarGuy ... they should make THREE diff type "Depends" ... engine, trans and 'vert-hubs .... 
I will have one on my stuff ... sure don't want to oil-the-tires at 140 or so ..... 
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 03:11 AM
First of all: I have blown an engine, and oiled my slicks at 141 mph. I didn't crash, because I've driven on ice and snow, and I know how to control a vehicle! The single most dangerous thing on America's Drag Strips are inexperienced and incompetent drivers, Period!
2nd: The cost of the diaper is irrelevant. It's the fitment problems on a K-member car, and being forced to remove it to do routine maintenance.
I have since sold my back halved car, and picked up a strut front car, I also replaced the K in my Valiant with a tubular design, which, along with the fenderwell exit headers, make the catch pan underneath a viable option on both cars. Two things you will never see on a car of mine, is a diaper, or a trans blanket, heat sinks are not my cup o' tea.
If you find many things in life to be a "no-brainer", then the fact is you aren't using your brain. Nothing is that simple, except the person that thinks it is.
Posted By: loaderpro
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 06:12 AM
If you wanna here the music...you gotta pay the fiddler!
Posted By: dOc !
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 06:34 AM
Quote:
If you wanna here the music...you gotta pay the fiddler!
hear HEAR ! ....and MoparBilly ...show us your pan-plans ...
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 06:59 AM
Entries permitted to use a NHRA accepted composite lower engine oil-retention device and belly pan. The belly pan must be constructed of NHRA accepted composite material with vertical folded-up walls, at least 4-inches tall. minimum .032-inch steel, .060-inch aluminum, or carbon fiber and Pan must extend from framerail to framerail and extend from forward of the front motor plate harmonic balancer or lower pulley and to the rear of the engine block. and must incorporate a minimum 2-inch vertical folded-up walls lip on all sides. Minimum
number of slots or holes in the walls to clear frame, steering, or lines permitted. Front and rear walls must be “coved” toward oil pan a minimum of 1/2-inch to assist oil in staying within the confines of the oil-retention device. Pan must be attached with a minimum of three attachment points per side. Nonflammable, oil absorbent liner is mandatory inside of belly pan.
Posted By: sr4440
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 02:01 PM
If I was running a track and wanted to try and get racers to run a diaper, I would provide an incentive for them I.E. entry fee for “Pro” $65, or $60 with a diaper. That way a guy who runs once or twice a year can still race and have fun. If a racer runs more then that he has a incentive to get it on his car ASAP.
Joe
Posted By: Wv68charger
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 02:16 PM
Great idea! Joe
Posted By: THE GLASS MAN
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 03:11 PM
Posted By: hemidup
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 04:16 PM
Quote:
Where is all this saftey stuff going to end. Just yesterday I heard that the NHRA is thinking of diapers on all the retired NHRA racers while they are in their Lazy Boy chairs watching the NHRA races on tv. 
You just made me spit a mouthful of my morning coffee out from laughing so hard.
But on a side note. I race a 2005 4x4 Ram pickup which runs high 6.80's in the 1/8 cutting high 1.40 60's and she weighs in at 5200 lbs plus. I have all the required NHRA safety equipment, but added more than what NHRA requires. Besides the required front driveshaft hoop I also installed one on the rear incase the rear U joint let's go and could cause the spinning driveshaft to rupture my factory plastic fuel tank. I also use a Lofgren non SFI approved trans blanket around my transfer case since I race in 4x4 HI and something is better than nothing espeically when your family jewels could be in jepardy case the transfer case chain breaks. There's also a driveshaft hoop on the front driveshaft. Not required by NHRA, but required for the 4x4 trucks running sanctioned ice drags.
Posted By: Whompin_Wedge
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 04:33 PM
Quote:
If I was running a track and wanted to try and get racers to run a diaper, I would provide an incentive for them I.E. entry fee for “Pro” $65, or $60 with a diaper. That way a guy who runs once or twice a year can still race and have fun. If a racer runs more then that he has a incentive to get it on his car ASAP.
Joe
This is the best idea yet!
I still don't see how it will really benefit a car with a drag-link anyway... I would like to run one, but there would be a giant hole in it!!
Posted By: wyoming
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 04:54 PM
IMHO diaper rules makes some sense, much more so than 2 year belts, ect, all the things where your buying new stuuf when you allready have one thats still good. Dont live there anymore but couple years back Salt Lake City Rocky Mountain Raceways put in a diaper rule, all cars 10.99 or quicker, we were all pretty upset about it, couple of guys either quit running there, some just quit. The rest of us bought cheap diapers. Mine had the hole in the side velcro strapped above the link. I never needed mine, luckily, but I just raced there 2 years after the rule went into effect. But it did improve the overall racing. The oil cleanups went down quite a bit, didnt have near as many of the whole damn track ones. Cost me and everyone else a couple hundred bucks, but overall have decided it was a good deal. The RMR track crew was never known for fast cleanups, even though they had decent equipment, but it helped cut that issue, and had to help the guys who lost an engine on the top end. I did see one of the mopar diapers with the drag link hole contain a rod through the pan pretty well, think thats one time that they did maybe get it right.
Posted By: Eric
Re: Track rules - could hurt car count - 07/26/13 04:58 PM
Quote:
First of all: I have blown an engine, and oiled my slicks at 141 mph. I didn't crash, because I've driven on ice and snow, and I know how to control a vehicle! The single most dangerous thing on America's Drag Strips are inexperienced and incompetent drivers, Period!
2nd: The cost of the diaper is irrelevant. It's the fitment problems on a K-member car, and being forced to remove it to do routine maintenance.
I have since sold my back halved car, and picked up a strut front car, I also replaced the K in my Valiant with a tubular design, which, along with the fenderwell exit headers, make the catch pan underneath a viable option on both cars. Two things you will never see on a car of mine, is a diaper, or a trans blanket, heat sinks are not my cup o' tea.
If you find many things in life to be a "no-brainer", then the fact is you aren't using your brain. Nothing is that simple, except the person that thinks it is.
Billy...I lived in Buffalo NY for 42 yrs...I think I'm qualified for the ice and snow thing. Sometimes it happens so quickly there is no way out no matter how experienced a driver you are. I was just lucky I kept the front clip off the rail. I would suggest spending the cash to everyone..for safety and for clean-up time. 