Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong?

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 07:51 PM

Having an interesting time with Comp 1732 tool retainers.

I made the decision to run Comp tool steel retainers instead of Titanium on my 500 street/strip motor.

When I installed them, I found that my installed height went from 1.878 with Edelbrock steel retainers to about 1.954 with the Comp 1732's.

So I tried my MP Titanium retainers on the same valve, same locks, the installed height was 1.88.

Then I tried stock mopar retainers, same 1.88.

Out of curiosity I measured every one of the comp 1732 retainers on the same valve using the same pair of comp locks.

12 came out at 1.954
1 was 1.952
2 were 1.960
1 was 1.962

So effectively these were coming out at ~+.075 installed height, although the machining on 3 of them was less than spot-on.

I called Comp & explained to the tech support guy that if these are supposed to be machined at +.075 that they should at least state it in their catalog.

When I mentioned that 3 other retainers all came in at 1.88, he stated that "you can't compare these to other retainers etc etc. & that it depends on the spring...yada yada which I politely called BS on , in other words, we don't have a problem, you do.

I mentioned the sloppy machined height on 3 of the retainers, he seemed completely OK with it, offered no suggestions or resolution.

The guy was polite but really didn't seem to think or care that there was a problem.

Anyone had a similar experience with Comp?? I'm really getting fed up.....

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 08:23 PM

Quote:

Having an interesting time with Comp 1732 tool retainers.

I made the decision to run Comp tool steel retainers instead of Titanium on my 500 street/strip motor.

When I installed them, I found that my installed height went from 1.878 with Edelbrock steel retainers to about 1.954 with the Comp 1732's.

So I tried my MP Titanium retainers on the same valve, same locks, the installed height was 1.88.

Then I tried stock mopar retainers, same 1.88.

Out of curiosity I measured every one of the comp 1732 retainers on the same valve using the same pair of comp locks.

12 came out at 1.954
1 was 1.952
2 were 1.960
1 was 1.962

So effectively these were coming out at ~+.075 installed height, although the machining on 3 of them was less than spot-on.

I called Comp & explained to the tech support guy that if these are supposed to be machined at +.075 that they should at least state it in their catalog.

When I mentioned that 3 other retainers all came in at 1.88, he stated that "you can't compare these to other retainers etc etc. & that it depends on the spring...yada yada which I politely called BS on , in other words, we don't have a problem, you do.

I mentioned the sloppy machined height on 3 of the retainers, he seemed completely OK with it, offered no suggestions or resolution.

The guy was polite but really didn't seem to think or care that there was a problem.

Anyone had a similar experience with Comp?? I'm really getting fed up.....

We seen discrepencys similar to this and it end up being the wrong locks.The groove location on the locks,the angle must be correct(10* locks,10* retainers) as well as valve length and valve groove location on the stem.Also make sure the lock is seated to the valve and retainer completely.Have you measured the retainer thickness at the spring seat area?

Posted By: 440lebaron

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 08:50 PM

a stock retainer is 7* most titanium are 10* double check locks

Posted By: rebel

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 09:15 PM

i'm now using tool steel retainers & i was more concerned that they don't cover the spring as much as the titainium retainers i swapped out. but apparently this is correct.

Attached picture 7774367-2013-06-2723.06.01.jpg

Attached picture 7774367-2013-06-2723.06.01.jpg

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 10:50 PM

Quote:

a stock retainer is 7* most titanium are 10* double check locks

Shouldn't matter as long as I'm using the right locks with the right retainers. I used the same pair of comp 10 degree locks with the Mopar titanium retainers and the comp tool steel retainers. I used the Edelbrock 7 degree locks with the Edelbrock retainers and the stock mopar stamped steel retainers. The only screwy installed height was with the 10 degree comp tool steel retainers and the 10 degree comp locks. If the locks were the culprit, then the 10 degree MP titanium retainers would have the same problem with installed height since I measured with the exact same pair of locks that I used on the tool steel retainers.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 10:55 PM

Quote:

i'm now using tool steel retainers & i was more concerned that they don't cover the spring as much as the titainium retainers i swapped out. but apparently this is correct.

Did your installed height change too?

Posted By: rebel

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/12/13 11:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i'm now using tool steel retainers & i was more concerned that they don't cover the spring as much as the titainium retainers i swapped out. but apparently this is correct.

Did your installed height change too?

i went to a taller spring so i can't say for a fact that it did.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/13/13 12:26 AM

OK I think I have the answer.....drum roll please......I'm the one with the problem, sort of. Out of curiosity, I grabbed a stock factory retainer for an LS-6 454 chevy & tried it on my 500 motor when it wasn't looking using same 7 degree locks I used before. It came out at 1.942. Then I took a Comp 727 titanium 10 degree retainer and measured it, and it came out 1.945. So it appears to me that Big Mopars and Big Chevys use a different height "standard" when machining retainers...so guess which height specs Comp appears to be machining their stuff to? Not a big deal just wish I'd known to buy -.050 locks before hand as I was shooting for 1.900 anyway.

Posted By: quickd100

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/13/13 01:23 AM

One thing I found out when I was switching to a solid roller. There is no industry standard on locks and retainers. One companies +.050 retainers or keepers may be the same installed height as another's standard height piece. Dave

Posted By: rebel

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/13/13 08:03 AM

Quote:

One thing I found out when I was switching to a solid roller. There is no industry standard on locks and retainers. One companies +.050 retainers or keepers may be the same installed height as another's standard height piece. Dave

i learnt this the hard way too. never mix Comp Cams & Crower locks & retainers & lash caps. one of the tech guys at either one of these companies, came to work still hammered from the night before & his eyecrometer wasn't set on zero before he made the call on the final measurements. 10* @ one company is not 10* at the other, & lash caps are not interchangable. i only buy comp cams stuff now, the girl behind the counter is hotter than the Crower agents.

Posted By: mac56

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/13/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

One thing I found out when I was switching to a solid roller. There is no industry standard on locks and retainers. One companies +.050 retainers or keepers may be the same installed height as another's standard height piece. Dave

I have found the same thing. When you buy new retainers or switch brands of retainers there is only one way to find out what height locks will work and that is try them. Like stated before you can buy a +50 lock and it will be the same as someone else's standard lock.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/13/13 05:34 PM

Thanks for the heads up on the locks wildcard. In this case, the retainers are machined to different heights because I was using the exact same pair of 7 degree and 10 degree locks each time I measured depending on the retainer type. The 10 degree Mopar Performance TI retainer gave the same installed height as the stock 7 degree Mopar and Edelbrock retainers. Comp seemed to match the stock Big Block Chevy height. Bottom line, looks like its a crap shoot until you put it all together and measure.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/26/13 03:59 AM

Just an update, I figured that using a Comp 630 -.050 lock would bring my installed height back down to about 1.900-1.905. Think again! Instead I struggled to get my height back up to 1.890-1.894 by having try multiple combinations of lock pairs on each valve. A royal pain. One lock half would pull the height down to 1.870 (-.083) no matter which other lock half or retainer I used it with. If you've ever wondered why valves sometimes mysteriously drop? Had to buy additional locks from comp to get the height even close to what these are advertised to be. Again, inconsistent machining makes me question why I still use their stuff.

Posted By: LA360

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/26/13 10:54 AM

The problem with valve spring retainers is there is no industry standard in regards to the height location. As we have all seen there are differences from one manufacturer to he next. Until someone like the SAE comes up with a standard, it's what we have to work around.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Install Height of Comp 1732 Tool Steel Retainers Wrong? - 07/26/13 04:42 PM

Quote:

The problem with valve spring retainers is there is no industry standard in regards to the height location. As we have all seen there are differences from one manufacturer to he next. Until someone like the SAE comes up with a standard, it's what we have to work around.

Yeah I realize that, it would just be nice if they actually machined their own stuff to some kind of standard. If I have standard height comp locks and switch to -.050 height comp locks, they shouldn't come out at -.065 to -.070. My point is, the sloppy machining in their locks and retainers is pretty pathetic.