keeping cool

Posted By: Saskabusa

keeping cool - 05/21/13 12:47 AM

I am having trouble keeping it cool.

My Charger that is.

It has a all aluminum Indy 572" motor 12.5 to 1 motor. Makes around 800 hp.

The cooling system consist of a Griffin Rad 26" x 2" and two 14" electric fans. one fan on the front and one on the back.

Idling in my driveway on a nice 85*f day. The cooling system cant keep the temp below 210*. Its at that point I shut it off.

At the track on the return road it just gets hotter as I return to the pits. The car has an alternator on it.

What I am wondering is if it is possible to keep it cool or am I expecting too much.

I have mufflers on the car and would like to drive it around more but I need to deal with the cooling before that can happen.

Posted By: Cheatham

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 12:52 AM

my alum 572 is almost ready im wondering how cool it will run in hi 90s here in tx, whats your timing at?

Posted By: oldtimer5151

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 01:32 AM

Remove the fan in front and install the largest fan that will fit behind the rad. Wrap the headers with heat wrap. Jack the front end up,turn the pump on, and slowly pore coolant in until no more bubbles appear. This eliminates hot spots in the heads.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 01:39 AM

Is the Griffin a 2-row 1" tube model? If so you need one of their 2-row 1.5" tube models. I bit the bullet and went with one and wow, finally cooling like it should. Derale has multiple dual fan setups that flow from 3600-4000 cfm and those are what we need on the street period. I am ordering the Derale 16833 this friday for my pile.

Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:05 AM

Perhaps timing is a contributing factor?

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:12 AM

Timing is 32*

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:21 AM

Quote:

Is the Griffin a 2-row 1" tube model? .

Yes that is what I have.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:29 AM

Is 32 total and the dizzy is not locked? That radiator is good for cooling a 400hp 318 tops. My radiator is a Griffin 1-86242-X and they offer other universal fit sizes as well. I think it cost me around $450 shipped.

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:31 AM

Quote:

Is 32 total and the dizzy is not locked? That radiator is good for cooling a 400hp 318 tops. My radiator is a Griffin 1-86242-X and they offer other universal fit sizes as well. I think it cost me around $450 shipped.

The distributor is locked. The car runs a crank trigger.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:36 AM

You wont have much luck running it locked and keeping it cool on the street. I've never ran that much engine but I bet you would see an improvement in temp running around 17-20 degrees initial. If its an MSD dizzy I think the biggest bushing is 18-19* of mechanical advance which would put you at about 12 intial which might suck though.

Posted By: Crizila

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:04 AM

Quote:

I am having trouble keeping it cool.

My Charger that is.

It has a all aluminum Indy 572" motor 12.5 to 1 motor. Makes around 800 hp.

The cooling system consist of a Griffin Rad 26" and two 14" electric fans. one fan on the front and one on the back.

Idling in my driveway on a nice 85*f day. The cooling system cant keep the temp below 210*. Its at that point I shut it off.

At the track on the return road it just gets hotter as I return to the pits. The car has an alternator on it.

What I am wondering is if it is possible to keep it cool or am I expecting too much.

I have mufflers on the car and would like to drive it around more but I need to deal with the cooling before that can happen.

You might not be able to get there with that rad, but; Remove the thermostat and any restrictors ( if you are running them ). Dump both electric fans. Run a tight fitting fan shroud ( that covers the entire rad core ) and get the biggest flex fan ( 19" or more) you can fit in there. Getting the hot air out of the engine compartment will also help. Removing or modifying the inner fender panels will help. You can tell if you have air flow problems by running it without the hood and seeing if the problem goes away.

Attached picture 7713332-fan1.jpg

Posted By: pattyboy 572

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:07 AM

Ever consider E - 85 conversion.....have the same set-up 572 440-1s .

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:24 AM

There isn't a lot of space between the Meizer water pump and the rad. Sticking a big fan dead center of the rad is not going to happen.

Posted By: pattyboy 572

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:27 AM

you sure could use a shroud....helped a lot..jegs or summit..that would center the fan and pull evenly through the entire core

Posted By: Crizila

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:46 AM

Quote:

There isn't a lot of space between the Meizer water pump and the rad. Sticking a big fan dead center of the rad is not going to happen.

Even if you went with a 1.5" core rad, I doubt that set up will make it. Assume you have the rad stepped off from the core support to fit the front mounted electric fan - and it is staggered to the right? You are still missing a lot of the rad core. The rad core needs to be tight up to the core support so what ever air goes through the rad is ONLY coming from outside the engine compartment. Consider revamping your set up. It obviously aint working as it is. If you don't want to run a flex fan, move the rad up against the core support (make sure the core support opening is the same size as the rad core) and run one electric fan mounted to a fan shroud that looks and fits like mine. You need to draw air through the entire rad core.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 03:54 AM

Quote:

There isn't a lot of space between the Meizer water pump and the rad. Sticking a big fan dead center of the rad is not going to happen.

You have a couple things wrong... 2 small fans DONT equal
1 larger fan... the center of the fan DOESNT move air
so IF you have to, move the biggest single fan offset
so it fits in the area.. next is a shroud ... its a
must have... in your set up your gonna have to make
it or pay... your rad MIGHT be too small... you should
be able to idle all day in the drive way... if its
not right and you have the above its too small of a rad

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 04:22 AM

Quote:

You have a couple things wrong... 2 small fans DONT equal
1 larger fan... the center of the fan DOESNT move air
so IF you have to, move the biggest single fan offset
so it fits in the area.. next is a shroud ... its a
must have... in your set up your gonna have to make
it or pay... your rad MIGHT be too small... you should
be able to idle all day in the drive way... if its
not right and you have the above its too small of a rad

Unfortunately that is the biggest fan I could fit in there. At one point with the previous motor. A 500 hp 440. I made a shroud out of 1" aluminum box tubing and a sheet of aluminum with one 14" fan. It never preformed that well so I removed it.

The rad tanks are up against the core support so it cant move any further forward but I can block off any openings so air if directed through the rad.

The fact it gets so hot at idle in the drive way leads me to believe it's a lack of radiator capacity.

Before I look into a different rad I will try to fab another shroud and seal up the air flow.

Try the cheap solutions first.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 04:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You have a couple things wrong... 2 small fans DONT equal
1 larger fan... the center of the fan DOESNT move air
so IF you have to, move the biggest single fan offset
so it fits in the area.. next is a shroud ... its a
must have... in your set up your gonna have to make
it or pay... your rad MIGHT be too small... you should
be able to idle all day in the drive way... if its
not right and you have the above its too small of a rad

Unfortunately that is the biggest fan I could fit in there. At one point with the previous motor. A 500 hp 440. I made a shroud out of 1" aluminum box tubing and a sheet of aluminum with one 14" fan. It never preformed that well so I removed it.

The rad tanks are up against the core support so it cant move any further forward but I can block off any openings so air if directed through the rad.

The fact it gets so hot at idle in the drive way leads me to believe it's a lack of radiator capacity.

Before I look into a different rad I will try to fab another shroud and seal up the air flow.

Try the cheap solutions first.

You spent thousands of bucks on your engine and now
you want to go cheap..... no comment

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 04:36 AM

Well it gives me something to do while waiting for a new rad to arrive.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 05:06 AM

Im guessing your core is in the 26x19 range. One of these would cure the fan problem http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/d/1/d16826_1000.jpg

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 05:09 AM

I had to notch my frame rails in an A body to fit a 29x19 dual pass rad from Speedway Motors for around $180. then I used 2 ebay fans that cost $15 each. one was a 14" and the other was a 12" set up as pullers

also ran a 10" pusher in front of the trans cooler

a shroud hurt my car going down the hwy when the combo was in a different car

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 05:31 AM

Quote:

Im guessing your core is in the 26x19 range. One of these would cure the fan problem http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/d/1/d16826_1000.jpg

I cant see if that has a (spill ring) around the perimeter
but a fan with a spill ring is much more efficient
over one that doesnt... its like the wing tiplets
on a jet plane... it doesnt allow the air to fall off
the end of the wing.. same thing on a fan blade..
dont waste the air off the ends(thats moves the most
air till it goes sonic)

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 05:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Im guessing your core is in the 26x19 range. One of these would cure the fan problem http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/d/1/d16826_1000.jpg

I cant see if that has a (spill ring) around the perimeter
but a fan with a spill ring is much more efficient
over one that doesnt... its like the wing tiplets
on a jet plane... it doesnt allow the air to fall off
the end of the wing.. same thing on a fan blade..
dont waste the air off the ends(thats moves the most
air till it goes sonic)

The blade ends are encircled. My Spals are that way as well. The fan setup pictured is rated at 4000cfm. I've found that if they are not at least 3000cfm you're wasting your money and time.

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 05:42 AM

Double Pass radiator and methanol will do the job just fine.

Posted By: Dyno Donnie

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 11:57 AM

Make sure your using the 55gph water pump not the 35gph meziere
pump--ASk me how I know.

Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 01:40 PM

Quote:

Make sure your using the 55gph water pump not the 35gph meziere
pump--ASk me how I know.

I have the 35 gph pump.

Posted By: Crizila

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You have a couple things wrong... 2 small fans DONT equal
1 larger fan... the center of the fan DOESNT move air
so IF you have to, move the biggest single fan offset
so it fits in the area.. next is a shroud ... its a
must have... in your set up your gonna have to make
it or pay... your rad MIGHT be too small... you should
be able to idle all day in the drive way... if its
not right and you have the above its too small of a rad

Unfortunately that is the biggest fan I could fit in there. At one point with the previous motor. A 500 hp 440. I made a shroud out of 1" aluminum box tubing and a sheet of aluminum with one 14" fan. It never preformed that well so I removed it.

The rad tanks are up against the core support so it cant move any further forward but I can block off any openings so air if directed through the rad.

The fact it gets so hot at idle in the drive way leads me to believe it's a lack of radiator capacity.

Before I look into a different rad I will try to fab another shroud and seal up the air flow.

Try the cheap solutions first.

The "inexpensive" solutions are always good to try first. FYI, over heat at idle is usually an air flow problem. Over heat at speed ( reads making HP ) is often a capacity/size problem.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: keeping cool - 05/21/13 02:59 PM

I use a Griffin radiator w/ 2 rows of 1.25" tubes. They wanted me to run the one w/ 1.5" tubes, but I couldn't fit it w/ my fan setup.
I have the fan/shroud setup off of a 2003 dodge Viper and it works great. If you want, I can get you the part number for it...it's not expensive at all if you know someone at a dodge dealer that can get it for you at their discount.

Or you can get in touch w/ sixpackgut here on the board...he has some cheap ebay fan setup that works great...he ran and won drag week last year w/ it.

The other thing is your pump...I run the 45 GPM Meziere pump that bolts into the stock housing.
This setup keeps my 850 hp Hemi cool on the street.