NOS jetting (pill) question

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 07:44 PM

Ok I finally got into the NOS kit Cab sold me. The NOS jets are 34 and the gas are 32's. This is on a 6-pack, so there are 2 plates, (under each outboard) so what pills/jets do I need for a 100 shot? Looking to start slow, might go to 150 who knows. Also how much timing do you take out? I'm at 38* full in at 2200 now. Probably going to start setting this up next weekend.
Thanks

Posted By: Leon441

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 10:16 PM

That is about a 100 HP. Pull at least 4 degrees timing as 38 is a touch high. Start with 5 psi fuel pressure to the fuel soleniod. If it pops on top end add a little fuel pressure.

Leon

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 10:32 PM

Thanks Leon, I was going to run it off the regulator it's at 6.5.. Is that too much?

Posted By: Leon441

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 10:52 PM

Yes that is too much. Add a regulator for the nitrous. That is the #1 tuning tool.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 11:21 PM

As Leon sort of eluded to, the HP and fuel mixture you get with the jets is dependent on your fuel pressure DURING THE RUN.

Static pressure may not reflect the actual flowing pressure. So giving a set of pill numbers to someone may or may not provide the desired results, depending on their fuel system capabilities.

If you run a separate fuel system with a tank up front, you are more likely to have a constant fuel pressure to the plates than if you simply tee off a line from the carb fuel supply.

In your case, you are only trying to deal with 100-150 HP so it may not be as critical as if you were adding 400HP of NOS, but even at 100HP you can lean a motor out if the fuel pressure drops too much.

Your jets - N34 - F32 at 6.5 lbs of fuel pressure and assuming 900psi bottle pressure, should provide 94hp with a N/F ratio of 5.2 I like to keep the N/F ratio between 5-7. (under 5 getting too rich, and over 7 getting too lean). At 7.5psi fuel pressure you have 102HP, but N/F ratio drops to 4.83.

If the fuel pressure during the run is 4.5 lbs, the same jets are now calculated at 79HP and the motor gets leaner with a N/F ratio of 6.2 (in the middle of the "safe" zone).

The same jets at 9 lbs of fuel pressure could give you about 112HP, but starts to get overly rich - a N/F ratio of 4.4.

With 4 jets (2 N & 2 F) and a known fuel system, I would probably run N38 F34 for a 100hp shot. With an unknown system, I would error on the safe side with a N38 F36

For the 150hp range, N46 F44 (for unknown fuel system) and N46 F42 if I knew I could count on 5.5 lbs of fuel.

Of course NOS bottle pressure also plays into the mixture formula. I base most of my calculations around 900PSI of bottle pressure, which should be close when the bottle temperature is about 80 degrees. Heating the bottle over 80 gives you a higher pressure, which will lean out you N/F mixture.

During the run, the bottle will cool from the start to finish, which will give you a richer mixture at the end of the run than at the starting line. (This is a lot more critical in a 400hp system than in a 100 to 150 HP system.) I generally have my bottle pressure about 950 before the purge. It will drop a little after the purge, giving me about 925psi at launch. After a 10 sec pass, the pressure is usually about 875psi, so I base my calculations on the average which would be 900.

I would like to see the timing closer to 34 degrees with the 100hp set up (as Leon suggested), and 32 if you use the 150HP setup.

There are a lot of variables in a NOS system, but with a little common sense, it can be a lot of fun and still safe for your motor.

Scott

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/03/13 11:44 PM

say what???

lol. I'm going to print that out.

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 01:28 AM

Wow....IMHO, that's way too complicated...

...and figuring HP off fuel jets and pressure does not work...it would be like figuring HP off what jets you have in your carb....

IMHO, people make this way too complicated....Here's how I explain it to people....the nitrous jet is how much power you could potentially make and you use the fuel jet to to richen or lean it out until it makes the most HP for that nitrous jet...just like a naturally aspirated motor, it pumps an X amount of air through it (nitrous jet) and it's our job as tuners to change the carb jetting (or fuel jet) to get the most HP out of our naturally aspirated motor....

When you go up on nitrous jet, you will naturally move more air and make more power just like going up on cubic inches or more cylinder head will naturally move more air and make more power in a naturally aspirated motor...

So, all you have to do is pick a nitrous jet for how much power you want and then keep leaning it out until it stops gaining trap speed....ANYTHING you do that makes more trap speed means it was the right direction to go...(just like naturally aspirated tuning).....

Having said that....they key to consistent results and being able to even bracket race with nitrous is to keep the bottle temp consistent every pass....the best way is to use a water bath set to 100*....and purge to 950lbs before you stage.....

Now, the kicker is timing which gives a lot of people a hard time...ALL you have to do is keep it out of detonation...so, if it were me, I'd start out at 28* with a 100 shot and 25* on a 150 shot....then lean it out 2 numbers at a time until it stops gaining trap speed....then AFTER that, add 1* at a time until it stops gaining trap speed....(again, this is exactly the same process as tuning n/a because, after all, even though you're spraying, it's still just an n/a motor)...

Most everyone knows that if the air gets better we need to pull a degree or two of timing while tuning a naturally aspirated motor...and if the air gets better, we're realistically only picking up 5-15HP....now imagine the air got so much better that we actually picked up 100hp...How much timing would you have to pull then?...any time the oxygen content in the air is higher, we have to remove timing because oxygen is an accelerant and that's the reason we don't spray pure oxygen...

Also, changing the flowing fuel pressure is a VERY SMALL tuning move..Moving the fuel pressure 1 pound would be like changing you n/a carb jetting 1 number....and if you were in the high 10 a/f ratio moving one jet size smaller wouldn't do very much...

If you have an O2 sensor and your car runs the best around 12.5 to 1 A/F, just keep leaning it out until it reads in the mid 12's on spray....even if you're spraying in Denver or at Atco, just change the fuel jetting to be in the mid 12's...(just make sure to pull a few degrees of timing when going to Atco!!)..

It's really that simple...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:20 AM

that doesn't sound that simple really... lol boost was much easier.

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:29 AM

Quote:

that doesn't sound that simple really... lol boost was much easier.

What's hard?

Pick a nitrous jet for the hp you want...

Start out with timing conservative...

Make sure bottle temp is 950* or you have 950lbs of pressure...

Lean it out until it stops gaining trap speed...

Put timing into it 1* at a time until it stops gaining trap speed...

That's all there is to it...

There is only one thing that will hurt a motor.....Detontation.....What causes it? It's always one or a combination of three things....

Too much timing for the burn rate you have....
Too low of an octane for the cylinder pressure you have....
Or oil getting into the combustion process which lowers the octane....

That's it....

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 03:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

that doesn't sound that simple really... lol boost was much easier.

What's hard?

Pick a nitrous jet for the hp you want...

Start out with timing conservative...

Make sure bottle temp is 950* or you have 950lbs of pressure...

Lean it out until it stops gaining trap speed...

Put timing into it 1* at a time until it stops gaining trap speed...

That's all there is to it...

There is only one thing that will hurt a motor.....Detontation.....What causes it? It's always one or a combination of three things....

Too much timing for the burn rate you have....
Too low of an octane for the cylinder pressure you have....
Or oil getting into the combustion process which lowers the octane....

That's it....

octane shouldn't be a problem. I'm running a snow Performace Meth/H2O injection kit. It's under the center carb and sprays at WOT. I guess I should have mentioned that.

Posted By: 383man

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 07:06 AM

I take it this is going on the Charger Jeff ? What about the meth inj you have on it now ? Will that come off ? Ron

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 07:15 AM

Quote:

the nitrous jet is how much power you could potentially make and you use the fuel jet to to richen or lean it out until it makes the most HP for that nitrous jet...just like a naturally aspirated motor, it pumps an X amount of air through it (nitrous jet) and it's our job as tuners to change the carb jetting (or fuel jet) to get the most HP out of our naturally aspirated motor....

Sorry, but on this one point I will have to disagree. Nitrous does NOT make power. It can't, it doesn't burn. It does provide more oxygen so you can burn more fuel. But the amount of fuel you burn determines the amount of energy you make, not the amount of air you put in the cylinder.

And really, my numbers were easy to come up with. I just plugged in the desire HP and jet sizes, along with fuel pressure, and the Nitrous Master software program came up with everything else I need.

Nitrous Master

The software is not hard to use and I have done well tuning my cars and several others.

A friends had a car that ran 7.20 on motor(1/8-mile). He wanted to run a 6.40 heads up race. I calculated how much horse power was need to run the 7.20 at his race weight, and then how much horse power it would take to make the same weight go 6.40. Then used the Nitrous Master program to determine what settings were needed to get that much more HP. It worked out amazingly well. The car ran a 6.407 on the first pass with the NOS. Was I lucky? I don't know, but we too the same car to a Pink's all out. Ran 11.07 on motor. We decided the "class" was going to be closer to 10.30. I again calculated how much additional hp was needed to go from 11.07 to 10.30. Next pass out they sprayed the starting line with VHT right in front of him (first time they sprayed all day) and the car ran 10.20. I still say if the VHT was not added, he would have run 10.30.

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 07:44 AM

Will gasoline burn in the absence of oxygen?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 08:18 AM

Quote:

Will gasoline burn in the absence of oxygen?

With no oxgen or any other chemical that will act as a oxygenerator when heated nothing will burn except maybe magnesium or some other weird materials or chemicals like that, me thinks.

Hopefully if I'm wrong on this one of the more knowleable sages on here will straighten us both out

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

the nitrous jet is how much power you could potentially make and you use the fuel jet to to richen or lean it out until it makes the most HP for that nitrous jet...just like a naturally aspirated motor, it pumps an X amount of air through it (nitrous jet) and it's our job as tuners to change the carb jetting (or fuel jet) to get the most HP out of our naturally aspirated motor....

Sorry, but on this one point I will have to disagree. Nitrous does NOT make power. It can't, it doesn't burn. It does provide more oxygen so you can burn more fuel. But the amount of fuel you burn determines the amount of energy you make, not the amount of air you put in the cylinder.

And really, my numbers were easy to come up with. I just plugged in the desire HP and jet sizes, along with fuel pressure, and the Nitrous Master software program came up with everything else I need.

Nitrous Master
The software is not hard to use and I have done well tuning my cars and several others.

A friends had a car that ran 7.20 on motor(1/8-mile). He wanted to run a 6.40 heads up race. I calculated how much horse power was need to run the 7.20 at his race weight, and then how much horse power it would take to make the same weight go 6.40. Then used the Nitrous Master program to determine what settings were needed to get that much more HP. It worked out amazingly well. The car ran a 6.407 on the first pass with the NOS. Was I lucky? I don't know, but we too the same car to a Pink's all out. Ran 11.07 on motor. We decided the "class" was going to be closer to 10.30. I again calculated how much additional hp was needed to go from 11.07 to 10.30. Next pass out they sprayed the starting line with VHT right in front of him (first time they sprayed all day) and the car ran 10.20. I still say if the VHT was not added, he would have run 10.30.

I, respectfully, disagree....We build naturally aspirated motors to move more air...we install bigger nitrous to add more air....when the DA goes down we get more air....everything we do is to get more air in and out...which is the EXACT same reason carburetors are rated in CFM and not GPM....if it was all about fuel, we could just keep adding more and more fuel jet, which obviously doesn't work...Nitrous hp numbers are derived off the nitrous jet, NOT the fuel jet, by every Nitrous company because, again, it's all about how much air you can move....

You can't use fuel to calculate HP because some motors are more efficient than others....if you have a 14 to 1 440" motor with quench and EFI that will zing to 7,500rpm and a 8.5 to 1 632" with no quench and a carb on top of Rat Roaster intake and hydraulic cam that will only go to 5,500rpm, the 632" will take a lot more fuel along with a 100hp nitrous jet to dial it in....

Ask anyone that builds race motors...the goal is to make as much hp as possible with as little fuel as possible...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

the nitrous jet is how much power you could potentially make and you use the fuel jet to to richen or lean it out until it makes the most HP for that nitrous jet...just like a naturally aspirated motor, it pumps an X amount of air through it (nitrous jet) and it's our job as tuners to change the carb jetting (or fuel jet) to get the most HP out of our naturally aspirated motor....

Sorry, but on this one point I will have to disagree. Nitrous does NOT make power. It can't, it doesn't burn. It does provide more oxygen so you can burn more fuel. But the amount of fuel you burn determines the amount of energy you make, not the amount of air you put in the cylinder.

And really, my numbers were easy to come up with. I just plugged in the desire HP and jet sizes, along with fuel pressure, and the Nitrous Master software program came up with everything else I need.

Nitrous Master
The software is not hard to use and I have done well tuning my cars and several others.

A friends had a car that ran 7.20 on motor(1/8-mile). He wanted to run a 6.40 heads up race. I calculated how much horse power was need to run the 7.20 at his race weight, and then how much horse power it would take to make the same weight go 6.40. Then used the Nitrous Master program to determine what settings were needed to get that much more HP. It worked out amazingly well. The car ran a 6.407 on the first pass with the NOS. Was I lucky? I don't know, but we too the same car to a Pink's all out. Ran 11.07 on motor. We decided the "class" was going to be closer to 10.30. I again calculated how much additional hp was needed to go from 11.07 to 10.30. Next pass out they sprayed the starting line with VHT right in front of him (first time they sprayed all day) and the car ran 10.20. I still say if the VHT was not added, he would have run 10.30.

so how much of each do I need to run 10.40? Car should be around the 11.20 mark as is... Also Ron yes the meth/H2O will stay on... It's under the primary, the NOS goes under the outboards.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:46 PM

Yes you need oxygen to burn anything. And a naturally aspirated motor can only get so much air in, so you work on how much air you can get into the cylinders. The more air you put in the more fuel you can burn.

With Nitrous you effectively can put in as much oxygen as you want. The burning of the fuel is what produces the energy. A given amount of fuel will only produce so much heat/expansion of the combustion gasses.

You need both, but the fuel is the unit that can be measured to determine how much energy can be produced.

Scott

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 02:51 PM

Mr. yuck.

If you give me a time slip from a good run in your car on motor, the weight of the car, motor size, gear ratio, transmission type, stall speed, tire size, I will come up with a NOS setup that should put you in the 10.40's.

Scott

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 03:13 PM

Quote:

Mr. yuck.

If you give me a time slip from a good run in your car on motor, the weight of the car, motor size, gear ratio, transmission type, stall speed, tire size, I will come up with a NOS setup that should put you in the 10.40's.

Scott

Best run was 11.38 @ 118.35, 1.60/60ft, 7.30ish 1/8 (I think),that was with old slicks and 1 3/4" headers. Going to 2" and better slicks and rear shocks. I'm guessing motor only I'll be around 11.20 @ 119-120. Car weighs about 3800-3900.
Stock stroke 11.2:1 440-6, 727, 3800 Turbo Action, 3.91's, 275/60/15 drag radial. I also run the washer fluid injection under the primary carb. Should I even use that w/ the NOS? It does seem to help.

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 05:38 PM

Quote:

With Nitrous you effectively can put in as much oxygen as you want.

Same as a naturally aspirated motor...you can pump as much oxygen as you want if you keep going bigger and adding more cylinder head and camshaft....

Quote:

You need both, but the fuel is the unit that can be measured to determine how much energy can be produced.

Scott

Nitrous is MEASURED in LBS/hour....and you MEASURE air flow into a naturally aspirated motor with a turbine...

Air flow is EVERYTHING or you could do as I already mentioned and just keep adding more and more fuel, but as everyone knows, making a motor "rich" hurts power...

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 06:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

With Nitrous you effectively can put in as much oxygen as you want.

Same as a naturally aspirated motor...you can pump as much oxygen as you want if you keep going bigger and adding more cylinder head and camshaft....

Quote:

You need both, but the fuel is the unit that can be measured to determine how much energy can be produced.

Scott

Nitrous is MEASURED in LBS/hour....and you MEASURE air flow into a naturally aspirated motor with a turbine...

Air flow is EVERYTHING or you could do as I already mentioned and just keep adding more and more fuel, but as everyone knows, making a motor "rich" hurts power...

My understanding of NOS from some guys that have used it and learned it, like some of the good guys on here, it is easier to hurt the motor (burn the pistons up) with to much gasoline than with to little (to rich)

OP, try the jetting I sent you at 5 lbs of fuel pressure and then go up two jets sizes on both the NOS and gasoline until you get the results you want, use a retracted gap spark plug and 34 degrees at or under 100 HP

30 degrees after that until 150 HP and then use 26 degrees actual at or above 5000 RPM when your close to two hundred HP added on

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 06:36 PM

Quote:

Yes you need oxygen to burn anything.

I knew the answer. Without the oxidizer (n2o) you can't stuff more fuel in the engine.

You introduce "x" amount of oxidizer and need "y' of fuel to garner a certain A/F and power. The issue I have with that software is you keep packing fuel in, it makes more power... which isn't always the result. If more fuel was the key, you wouldn't need the oxidizer. Lean, to a point, is mean.

Look at the jetting recs over the years. The juice kits were horribly rich for 30+ years. We were drilling juice bars in the 80's or stepping down the recommended fuel pressure to get them to run better. According to that software, we (in the 80's) and most current kit producers are going the wrong direction.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 07:23 PM

Quote:

My understanding of NOS from some guys that have used it and learned it, like some of the good guys on here, it is easier to hurt the motor (burn the pistons up) with to much gasoline than with to little (to rich) OP, try the jetting I sent you at 5 lbs of fuel pressure and then go up two jets sizes on both the NOS and gasoline until you get the results you want, use a retracted gap spark plug and 34 degrees at or under 100 HP 30 degrees after that until 150 HP and then use 26 degrees actual at or above 5000 RPM when your close to two hundred HP added on

Cab, with all due respect, that is TERRIBLE advice...

Going up 2 numbers on both nos and fuel gets progressivley richer and richer, which goes against what you just said about a rich condition hurting parts.....and the timing numbers you'd recommended are too high also, IMHO...

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/04/13 07:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes you need oxygen to burn anything.

I knew the answer. Without the oxidizer (n2o) you can't stuff more fuel in the engine.

You introduce "x" amount of oxidizer and need "y' of fuel to garner a certain A/F and power. The issue I have with that software is you keep packing fuel in, it makes more power... which isn't always the result. If more fuel was the key, you wouldn't need the oxidizer. Lean, to a point, is mean.

Look at the jetting recs over the years. The juice kits were horribly rich for 30+ years. We were drilling juice bars in the 80's or stepping down the recommended fuel pressure to get them to run better. According to that software, we (in the 80's) and most current kit producers are going the wrong direction.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Exactly, Rob...

and a couple more points about the nitrous calculators....First, they don't take into consideration how much the solenoids flow and Second, they can't be accurate because it's a fact that just because you go up one jet size it doesn't necessarily mean it'll flow X% more....it just doesn't work that way...anyone that's used a flow bench will tell you that....Having said that, a calculator is fun to play with and when spraying relatively small amounts like 150hp and less you'll probably never hurt anything, but if you use those numbers spraying 300-400HP you WILL burn your motor up, so that again proves that they don't work....

And on the "more than one way to skin a cat" comment....personally I don't believe that....IMHO there's only one way to tune a motor...JUST like a naturally aspirated motor, once you've chosen all the parts the ONLY two things you can change are timing and the A/F ratio...and only ONE combination will make the most power....which boils down to the correct A/F ratio and as little timing as possible AND still make max power....Tuning nitrous is no different.....you pick a nitrous jet....start out with conservative timing....dial in the A/F ratio...then creep timing in....simple...and EXACTLY like tuning a naturally aspirated motor.....

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/05/13 08:31 PM

Thanks Big Squeeze, some real good info in here. Now if I could only get the stupid car to hook.

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 04:10 AM

Quote:

Thanks Big Squeeze, some real good info in here. Now if I could only get the stupid car to hook.

You're welcome....

What's the story on the car and why it's not hooking??

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 05:08 AM

Quote:

and a couple more points about the nitrous calculators....First, they don't take into consideration how much the solenoids flow and Second, they can't be accurate because it's a
fact that just because you go up one jet size it doesn't necessarily mean it'll flow X% more....it just doesn't work that way...anyone that's used a flow bench will tell you that....Having said that, a calculator is fun to play with and when spraying relatively small amounts like 150hp and less you'll probably never hurt anything, but if you use those numbers spraying 300-400HP you WILL burn your motor up, so that again proves that they don't work..

Big Squeeze

2 comments:

Have YOU personally ever used the Nitrous Master program or compared it against any of your "experienced" Nitrous tunes?

And did you know that it was written and calculated using a flow bench and real world experience to come up with the predictions in addition to the mathematics?

I don't really want to turn this thread into a piss'n contest, but I have used this program for 10+ years with very consistent results.

Scott

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 02:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

and a couple more points about the nitrous calculators....First, they don't take into consideration how much the solenoids flow and Second, they can't be accurate because it's a
fact that just because you go up one jet size it doesn't necessarily mean it'll flow X% more....it just doesn't work that way...anyone that's used a flow bench will tell you that....Having said that, a calculator is fun to play with and when spraying relatively small amounts like 150hp and less you'll probably never hurt anything, but if you use those numbers spraying 300-400HP you WILL burn your motor up, so that again proves that they don't work..

Big Squeeze

2 comments:

Have YOU personally ever used the Nitrous Master program or compared it against any of your "experienced" Nitrous tunes?

And did you know that it was written and calculated using a flow bench and real world experience to come up with the predictions in addition to the mathematics?

I don't really want to turn this thread into a piss'n contest, but I have used this program for 10+ years with very consistent results.

Scott

Yes, I did play with it back before I knew very much about nitrous...

agreed, I'm not trying to make you or anyone mad...

just trying to help...

Like I'd already mentioned, just changing the solenoid affects nitrous and fuel flow, so that calculator CAN'T be correct...

Anyone that understands what's involved in flowing something knows it can't be very accurate...and like I'd already mentioned, figuring hp off fuel is wrong, no two ways about it...and like already mentioned, spraying small amounts I'm sure you'll be fine...

BUT, if you tune the way I've described, you will make more power with the same nitrous jet and it will be trouble free...again, when people throw out what jet numbers to use for a nitrous tuneup, it's just like telling someone what jets to run in their carb...if you're lucky it'll get them close, but it CAN'T be as accurate as tuning it yourself and dialing it in...

I'll bet that you can't find anyone who's used that calculator to spray 200, 300 or 400Hp with "consistent results"...

I tune 2-3 cars/week and do quite a bit of nitrous stuff...I'm not just making this up or repeating what I've read somewhere..

Does what I say not make any sense?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 03:14 PM

150 is all this thing will ever see...lol Now I just have to figure out how to "map" out all the wires and plumbing!

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 05:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks Big Squeeze, some real good info in here. Now if I could only get the stupid car to hook.

You're welcome....

What's the story on the car and why it's not hooking??

Caltracs, afco double adjustable shocks all the way around, and 295/65 hoosier drag radials. The car will go 1.41-48 on motor but just blow off the tires on the hit. Edelbrock progressive controller set at 30% with 2 sec ramp on 73/65 jets in speedtech diffuser plate makes smoke show.lol Switching to slicks this year, hope it works out.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks Big Squeeze, some real good info in here. Now if I could only get the stupid car to hook.

You're welcome....

What's the story on the car and why it's not hooking??

Caltracs, afco double adjustable shocks all the way around, and 295/65 hoosier drag radials. The car will go 1.41-48 on motor but just blow off the tires on the hit. Edelbrock progressive controller set at 30% with 2 sec ramp on 73/65 jets in speedtech diffuser plate makes smoke show.lol Switching to slicks this year, hope it works out.

What's up front?

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/06/13 06:48 PM

Afco double adjustable front and rear. Stock suspension with energy suspension poly bushings. Oh yea forgot to say it is on e85 so thats a e85tune in the plate. I run a 58 fuel jet if I am on c16. -1 mono leaf spring from calvert with a 3/4 lowering block.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/07/13 06:33 AM

Mr. yuck,

My obviously flawed approach to NOS predicts you will need to run a pair of 48 Nos Jets, and a pair of 44 Fuel jets, set fuel pressure at 5.5 lbs for the NOS, and timing at 32-33. If you have a tire that will hook the car, you should run a LOW 10.40 without the Water/meth injection, which I have no experience in.

Your 60ft should be about 1.51 or so to be able to run 10.40 in a car that heavy. Anything slower will effect the ET.

Scott

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/07/13 01:22 PM

Quote:

Mr. yuck,

My obviously flawed approach to NOS predicts you will need to run a pair of 48 Nos Jets, and a pair of 44 Fuel jets, set fuel pressure at 5.5 lbs for the NOS, and timing at 32-33. If you have a tire that will hook the car, you should run a LOW 10.40 without the Water/meth injection, which I have no experience in.

Your 60ft should be about 1.51 or so to be able to run 10.40 in a car that heavy. Anything slower will effect the ET.

Scott

Thanks for the input...everybody. I guess I'll treat it like a carb and go from there. I'd like to get the car to 60 around 1.55 before the spray. Not sure that's doable w/ XHD springs, summit drag shocks and 275's, but we'll see. Perhaps it's best to spin a little and go for MPH.
Any other advise? like what to do the 1st time out? Full pass, half pass? only 2&3rd gear?

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/07/13 01:57 PM

i hate to be a pest..
but I strongly recommend that (especially since its a new set up) you flow the fuel side of the system to set "flowing" fuel pressure..5.5 is ok..
(i like psi a lil higher for atomization between two plates and plumbing..but just get a solid base fuel psi then go from there)
i made a pill/fixture to flow my self from brake line.
but with two base plates you may just want to use your kits base plates..
You need to flow the kit/set up you have through the fuel jets you will be using ...then adjust the fuel pressure reg to find and set your flowing fuel psi.
I strongly suggest:you do this...keep the plates off the engine..then engineer a longer fuel supply line from the engine bay to allow the base plates to reach a catch bucket...
install your fuel pills into these plates . set the plates down into the bucket then flow only the fuelside of the system. and adjust the fuel psi while fuel is flowing...
(leave no2 lines off/system/bottle off)
once you see a stable fuel psi..trigger it a few times and watch what the psi does... if you like what you see..then mount the plates on the motor.
and understand that is the flowing fuel psi.
this is the only way to get a baseline and know your fuel is right..
after that its just a matter of no2 jets and timing...
best of luck...

ps..the earlier explanations were more a trial in symantics...I think those guys where trying to give you a broad explanation.. some guys jumped in..focusing on some goofy aspects..
^***************************************
get fuel psi right..put in colder plugs.
get your bottle psi 950 (no reason to go higher)
set your no2 pills..and your timing...based on your hp package.
get the car running..(after purging system manually bring up the rpms to about 1200 rpm hold it steady there.then for a split second snap the no2 trigger..if it jumps rpms in an instant..crisply like a 2 stroke..then your close.. should be crisp and clean .
then i suggest only making 80 foot pass for the first pass on no2 ...check your plugs. and listen to motor..if it pulls clean..and plugs look good. work your way towards full passes.

my experience if it pops or sputters or feels like its breaking up..its to fuel fat.
if its clean on each shortend run..then check plugs..
Detination for me was never something i could feel..i only saw it on the plugs..
some of the passes that ate pistons felt strong until it went boom...
thats why i say start with short runs and check plugs...

its a nice shot in the arsey when its working right...

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/07/13 02:05 PM

I didn't read every post, so I don't know if this has been said yet.

During NOS use I would run the car on very high octane gasoline and not use the meth injection during NOS use. My

Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/07/13 02:40 PM

Quote:

ps..the earlier explanations were more a trial in symantics...I think those guys where trying to give you a broad explanation.. some guys jumped in..focusing on some goofy aspects

Can you explain what you mean by this?

just curious what your thoughts are..

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: NOS jetting (pill) question - 02/08/13 04:59 AM

some guys where getting all into how fuel mixes and how nitrous does or doesnt work..

there is no doubt he will have to fine tune it..
but i can say..when guys mix and match plates from other kits or selenoids...you get a hodge podge. i would resist changing anything from a kit at first...
With the type of power he is looking to shoot..
the basics are important..and most professional kits will work good if you follow that kits directions on fuel and pill mapping...
IMHO base lines are what is needed...first..
the sooner you get to a safe base tune that is verified by plugs and the time slip..or data logger..the less parts that get damaged and the more fun you have..
dont get too technical at first...with nitrous i find most guys get too tricky when they first start out..and miss a basic or simple item..
then they have a hard time fixing the problem.
that is all...nothing directed at you...