My 440 EFI-Coil on Plug/LS PCM ignition-UPDATED PINOUTS

Posted By: Curt

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 02:04 AM

Thats what i thought too... A quote from engine builder mag...

So what does this actually mean in terms of the forces generated inside an engine? An imbalance of only 1/4 oz. (7 grams) located four inches out from the center of the crank on a counterweight will generate a force of about 7 lbs. at 2,000 rpm. At low rpm, you would hardly feel a thing. But at 8,000 rpm, that same force would grow to 114 lbs. with every revolution of the crank. If this same engine had one ounce (28 grams) of imbalance, the forces generated would be multiplied by a factor of four, generating 456 lbs. of unwanted gyrations at 8,000 rpm! That�s enough vibration to rattle your teeth and pound the heck out of the main bearings. It�s also wasted motion that goes into shaking the block instead of spinning the crankshaft. Consequently, imbalance hurts horsepower as well as smoothness and engine longevity.

Curt

Awesome info though. Curious about the signal from the cam sensor unit though. Does the cam sensor pictured produce a compatible signal to function with the LS ECM? Looks to be a hall effect unit. Any idea the timing of the required cam signal in crankshaft degrees, Advance or retard?
Thanks

Posted By: VernMotor

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 02:19 AM

You could have that pulley/reluctor balanced . would not be a big deal. that is if you was worry about it. be nice to at lease see if it is off much anyhow.

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 03:14 AM

Quote:

You could have that pulley/reluctor balanced . would not be a big deal. that is if you was worry about it. be nice to at lease see if it is off much anyhow.

That's true, and a good idea. When Dan at Performance Only built my stroker smallblock, he neutral balanced the flexplate and the harmonic damper. Both parts were out of balance, believe it or not. Assume nothing!

Posted By: voigtspeed

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 04:17 AM

Interesting stuff keep it coming...........

Anyone can buy their parts a true hot rodder will make them!

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 06:05 AM

Thats a good idea about balancing it..no big deal to pull it off and have it checked, I think I'll do that.

As far as the cam signal that is required by the 411 LS computer, it is a 1X hall effect signal. All the computer needs to know from the cam sensor (at least combined with the 24X crank reluctor) is if the Engine is on the Compression Stroke or the Exhaust Stroke.

The 24X crank reluctor shown on page one has a very unique pattern which lets the PCM know the crank position, just not if it's on the compression or exhaust stroke. The PCM doesn't even really need the Cam signal to run (you could just unhook it and turn off the codes in the computer), but the engine wouldn't start as easy. It would attempt to start by guessing what stroke the engine is on....and if it didn't start within so many seconds, it would try the opposite stroke.

The later LS PCM's use a 58X reluctor and a 4X cam signal....this is not what I'm using and is not commonly used in these type of conversions.

Here is the 24X reluctor pattern as seen by an oscilloscope:

Attached picture 7564307-ls1-pattern.jpg

Attached picture 7564307-ls1-pattern.jpg

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 07:24 AM

smells like a thread that makes the archives to me

awesome work

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 02:52 PM

Kevin

Posted By: prochargedhemi

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 06:18 PM

there was an efi build years ago where they were using a milodon or keith black gear drive. Epoxied a magnet on the cam gear and mounted the sensor right to the cam cover.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 06:28 PM

BUMP

I'm going to follow everything closely on here as I have already bought my LS harness

Mods this need to be archived

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 06:30 PM

BTW I'm going to be trying this with a drive by wire harness

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 09:16 PM

Quote:

there was an efi build years ago where they were using a milodon or keith black gear drive. Epoxied a magnet on the cam gear and mounted the sensor right to the cam cover.

Here's what I envisioned for a hidden 1X signal (I didn't really come up with this on my own). Take the cam sprocket and epoxy or drill and tap and attach with screws a 1X reluctor straight to the gear. Then attach the semi/flush sensor to the timing cover to read the signal. I plan to test fit this on my spare motor soon to see if there is enough clearance between the back of the waterpump housing and the timing cover for the sensor. This would a real clean way to get the signal. Here's a pic of a similar one (the large U shaped area around 180 degrees of the sprocket would act as the reluctor):

Attached picture 7564847-1Xtiminggear.jpg

Attached picture 7564847-1Xtiminggear.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 09:35 PM

Again...I didn't come up with this, this was done by "EFI connection" in order to convert the LT1 Chevy cars to use the LS PCM. Here's the sensor they used. It may be too deep though...so we will see.

Attached picture 7564871-1xcamsensorpng.png

Attached picture 7564871-1xcamsensorpng.png

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 09:45 PM

Here is my attempt at a hidden reluctor, it is a 24X reluctor off a BB Chevy that fits on the crank snout. The problem is that the BB Chevy crank snouts are a larger diameter than the BB mopar so there is more play than I am comfortable with. If that reluctor is not centered on the crank snout, then the clearance between the reluctor teeth and the Crank Sensor would vary during rotation. Anybody know a easy way to make the hole smaller and maintain a key way? It is made of powdered metal, if that makes a difference....

Then the problem would be how to add a crank sensor to the bottom of the timing cover, it doesn't really land in a good location on the cover during my mockups....also, I would want some level of adjustment with the sensor and the keyway on a BB chevy and a BB mopar is not the same if I remember correctly. So the reluctor would need another keyway cut (but that's no big deal). Also, the balancer snout would have to be cut to keep pulley alignment, but again, thats no big deal.

Attached picture 7564885-24x.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/28/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

BTW I'm going to be trying this with a drive by wire harness

Are you planning on using Drive-by-wire itself? Or are you just using a drive-by-wire harness? No big deal to just use the harness with a Drive-by-Cable throttle body, as you just have to add a few wires and reposition some pins in the connectors, etc. Drive-by-wire it's self would present a new bunch of issues (but it could be done).

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 12:37 AM

I was wanting to use the DBW itself. I think it would clean up the install and give me more control over the gm torque manage. What problems will I run into? I'm still in the parts gathering stage so It wouldn't hurt me too much. I already have a TAC module and a pedal for this harness too.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 02:40 AM

Quote:

I was wanting to use the DBW itself. I think it would clean up the install and give me more control over the gm torque manage. What problems will I run into? I'm still in the parts gathering stage so It wouldn't hurt me too much. I already have a TAC module and a pedal for this harness too.

What car/truck and year did the TAC Module and Pedal/harness come out of? That dictates what model PCM you should run for compatibility sake.

The 99-2002 Vettes used DBW and the 411 24X/1X PCM.....but most LS conversion shops prefer to use drive by cable whenever possible for simplicity, etc. It can be done DBW...I just don't know as much about those systems. Most people prefer to just turn off torque management (which I think retards timing during shifts), which I'm not sure how you could make it work with a mopar transmission...but maybe it's possible.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 05:19 AM

Ok...I still havn't got to the Wiring harness and the PCM tuning stuff. But for now, Let's talk economics..... what if I told you that you could do this EFI setup for as little as $700? (not counting fuel pump...add $113 for a Walbro 255 which is the most common performance LS1 upgrade pump)

Obviously, higher HP setups will cost more than a solid 450-500 HP system due to the cost of injectors, aftermarket throttle bodies, etc. Forced induction could get away with stock throttle bodies in a pinch too.

Attached is a spreadsheet showing my costs other than the fuel system for my motor. I make about 450 hp at the wheels.....I have also included the costs using all stock parts and doing things yourself which is around $700. These prices are very realistic as they are what I actually paid, but I'm quite the bargain hunter and I spent weeks looking for good deals, etc.

Also, remember that this replaces your carb, intake and ignition system. I paid about $150 for my used Holley 850 DP, $125 for my Holley SD intake used, and $275 for my MSD digital 6+. Thats $575 using a used intake and carb.

Here you go (click the attachment link above and it gets big enough to read):

Attached picture 7565507-EFIcostspic2.jpg

Attached picture 7565507-EFIcostspic2.jpg

Posted By: Swedcharger67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

Here's what I envisioned for a hidden 1X signal (I didn't really come up with this on my own). Take the cam sprocket and epoxy or drill and tap and attach with screws a 1X reluctor straight to the gear. Then attach the semi/flush sensor to the timing cover to read the signal. I plan to test fit this on my spare motor soon to see if there is enough clearance between the back of the waterpump housing and the timing cover for the sensor. This would a real clean way to get the signal. Here's a pic of a similar one (the large U shaped area around 180 degrees of the sprocket would act as the reluctor):

I think the cam wheel style pictured would work well with an inductive sensor. Myself I'm currently planning for a Hall type sensor and it will need a magnet.

Posted By: Commando1

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 03:27 PM

Quote:

...what if I told you that you could do this EFI setup for as little as $700?

What if I told you that your thread is arguably hands down the best Moparts technical how-to ever.

TWhen finished this should be pinned at the top of the Tech Archives section.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 04:07 PM

Quote:

Here is my attempt at a hidden reluctor, it is a 24X reluctor off a BB Chevy that fits on the crank snout. The problem is that the BB Chevy crank snouts are a larger diameter than the BB mopar so there is more play than I am comfortable with. If that reluctor is not centered on the crank snout, then the clearance between the reluctor teeth and the Crank Sensor would vary during rotation. Anybody know a easy way to make the hole smaller and maintain a key way? It is made of powdered metal, if that makes a difference....

Then the problem would be how to add a crank sensor to the bottom of the timing cover, it doesn't really land in a good location on the cover during my mockups....also, I would want some level of adjustment with the sensor and the keyway on a BB chevy and a BB mopar is not the same if I remember correctly. So the reluctor would need another keyway cut (but that's no big deal). Also, the balancer snout would have to be cut to keep pulley alignment, but again, thats no big deal.

How about removing the part that connects to the crank snout and attaching the reluctor to an oil slinger ?

Great write up , I'd definitely want to do something like this considering the cost.

I don't see oxy sensors listed on the 700 budget side ?

Posted By: dogdays

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 04:25 PM

Check out the Ford cam sensor from a '90s OHC motor. It's simple.

R.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 05:44 PM

Quote:

Check out the Ford cam sensor from a '90s OHC motor. It's simple.

R.

Exactly what I was gonna mention, you need to plug the distributor hole anyway, the Ford design does that pretty cleanly...

Attached picture 7565873-$(KGrHqJ,!qoF!-H(Y)BQBQhuc93N)!~~60_1.JPG

Attached picture 7565873-$(KGrHqJ,!qoF!-H(Y)BQBQhuc93N)!~~60_1.JPG

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 05:56 PM

How does the reluctor and or pick up read? Is it magnetic or infrared or what?
If it is magnetic, won't the balancer interfere with it?
I don't know the answer and I am not scrutinizing your work, as it looks great! I am just trying to learn from you. thansk for sharing

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 06:23 PM

I have a general question , do these type of conversions have to be done with a single plane type intake of ?

How would a dual plane work , say like the RPM ?

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:14 PM

IMHO, I would think it would be less than ideal. Placing all the injectors accurately so they shoot at the back of the intake valve is tricky because of the shape of the runners.

A DP wet flow manifold is a compromise to assure good air velocity at low engine speeds so the carb gets good signal and the engine sees decent fuel distribution.

A port injected engine doesn't have this problem to deal with so a single plane doesn't give up anything on the bottom as all it has to do is deliver air. Runner shape makes ideal injector location easier too.

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:18 PM

Very interesting thread, thank you for sharing. I may just consider doing the same on my small block.

Posted By: voigtspeed

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:25 PM

Great post!!

Heres a thought for the bbc reluctor you have to trim the ballancer anyway put a step in it to fit the reluctor.

Thanks again for giving me more ideas to build even more projects around....

The sickness continues...

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:45 PM

Quote:

How does the reluctor and or pick up read? Is it magnetic or infrared or what?
If it is magnetic, won't the balancer interfere with it?
I don't know the answer and I am not scrutinizing your work, as it looks great! I am just trying to learn from you. thansk for sharing

The crank signal from an LS1 (24x reluctor wheel) is a typical hall effect square wave output. The reluctor uses 2 different width notches (12* and 3*) that are 15* apart.

Reluctors for both the cam and crank in an LS series engine uses the absence or presence of ferrous material (iron or steel) to modulate a magnetic field that is sensed and sent to the PCM in the form of voltage/current changes.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:48 PM

Quote:

IMHO, I would think it would be less than ideal. Placing all the injectors accurately so they shoot at the back of the intake valve is tricky because of the shape of the runners.

A DP wet flow manifold is a compromise to assure good air velocity at low engine speeds so the carb gets good signal and the engine sees decent fuel distribution.

A port injected engine doesn't have this problem to deal with so a single plane doesn't give up anything on the bottom as all it has to do is deliver air. Runner shape makes ideal injector location easier too.

I would agree with this.....but I really am not an expert on that subject.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 08:49 PM

Quote:

Great post!!

Heres a thought for the bbc reluctor you have to trim the ballancer anyway put a step in it to fit the reluctor.

Thanks again for giving me more ideas to build even more projects around....

The sickness continues...

Hey...thats a cool idea!!! Let me check that out....

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 09:04 PM

Quote:

I'll have to look at the oil slinger....honestly, that BB Chevy reluctor probably fits as tight as an oil slinger does. I could just cut a new keyway.

How about attaching the reluctor to the lower crank gear ?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 09:07 PM

Quote:

IMHO, I would think it would be less than ideal. Placing all the injectors accurately so they shoot at the back of the intake valve is tricky because of the shape of the runners.

A DP wet flow manifold is a compromise to assure good air velocity at low engine speeds so the carb gets good signal and the engine sees decent fuel distribution.

A port injected engine doesn't have this problem to deal with so a single plane doesn't give up anything on the bottom as all it has to do is deliver air. Runner shape makes ideal injector location easier too.

Thanks, I've only ever thought about buying something like the new FAST that looks like a carb , this setup has me intrigued. I'd have to do more homework to see what's involved with running it with E85.

Any links to info for a novice to do their homework ? Injector sizing ?

Sorry for straying

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 09:18 PM

E85 would require an injector capable of flowing 30% more fuel. I don't know if a Flexfuel engine uses the same style of injectors or not and if so how much above stock can they support?

Kevin

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 09:32 PM

Quote:

E85 would require an injector capable of flowing 30% more fuel. I don't know if a Flexfuel engine uses the same style of injectors or not and if so how much above stock can they support?

Kevin

You don't even need to use a flexfuel PCM...it's all in the injector map that your tuner inputs for the injectors your using (or you input in the HP tuners or EFI Live Software).

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 09:51 PM

That makes sense. I was just wondering if the Flex injector itself is able to physically flow more fuel than a gas one for a given pulse width or are they the same part# and you just increase the pulse width to get the 30% extra for E85.

Kevin

Posted By: furious70

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 10:02 PM

FWIW I'm using an rpm perf for my turbo 383 and the distribution is beautiful according to my plugs. I use a sheet metal elbow and 5.0 TB. I have a friend who has also had the best luck with distribution and mpg with a DP on his turbo 340. My take away is use whatever intake you would use based on the goals for the car with a carb and not sweat the efi. Other people may have had a different experience.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 10:10 PM

Also, remember when doing injector size calculation that LS motors run fuel pressure at 58 psi.

Flexfuel injectors are actually larger...flow more lbs (like 34lbs vs. 27 lbs +/-)....than the regular fuel injectors to allow for the E-85. Unless you WAY oversize an injector, it won't affect idle, etc. much, if at all if tuned correctly.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

Also, remember when doing injector size calculation that LS motors run fuel pressure at 58 psi.

Flexfuel injectors are actually larger...flow more lbs (like 34lbs vs. 27 lbs +/-)....than the regular fuel injectors to allow for the E-85. Unless you WAY oversize an injector, it won't affect idle, etc. much, if at all if tuned correctly.

Larger than the 42 lb ones you are using? Should make for a cheap junkyard solution if you needed more than 42 lb ones on just gas?

Kevin

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/29/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

FWIW I'm using an rpm perf for my turbo 383 and the distribution is beautiful according to my plugs. I use a sheet metal elbow and 5.0 TB. I have a friend who has also had the best luck with distribution and mpg with a DP on his turbo 340. My take away is use whatever intake you would use based on the goals for the car with a carb and not sweat the efi. Other people may have had a different experience.

I really have no experience to refute that experience with....so I don't know. I think all the stock high performance type intakes all tend to have long somewhat equal length runners...but most TBI style intakes tend to be more of a dual plane style...and vacume signal doesn't apply there...so it must work.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 12:03 AM

Well, my experience is with the SHO motor and the cam sensor just runs off the end of a camshaft. It is just a short cup that rotates, half of the cup's wall is cut away and the sensor goes over the end of the cup, kind of like a Mallory Opti-spark. As the cup rotates, either there is a cup wall in the sensor gap or there isn't.
I'm sure the one pictured is from a pushrod engine with a camshaft, and it plugs into the place where the distributor would go. That's even more applicable to a 440, as it's kind of congested at the front camshaft end.

R.

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 04:37 AM

I plan to build a body that plugs the distributor hole, uses the stock shaft/drive gear, and accepts a Jeep CPS. i will just have to cut down the stock shaft at the top. The rest should be super simple. Perhaps use some good bearings in the system instead of bushings.

It looks easy to make on the lathe/Mill, and would look much better than a converted distributor on these conversions.

When I get to that stage, I will post pics. Op good tech! I may start my own thread on my conversion, but will wait till you get farther in yours so as not to detract from each others tech!

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 04:43 AM

Quote:

I plan to build a body that plugs the distributor hole, uses the stock shaft/drive gear, and accepts a Jeep CPS. i will just have to cut down the stock shaft at the top. The rest should be super simple. Perhaps use some good bearings in the system instead of bushings.

It looks easy to make on the lathe/Mill, and would look much better than a converted distributor on these conversions.

When I get to that stage, I will post pics. Op good tech! I may start my own thread on my conversion, but will wait till you get farther in yours so as not to detract from each others tech!

I had ideas of doing the same thing using this as the body.

Posted By: topbrent

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 11:44 AM

Quote:

It would be interesting to see what a 6.0 flexfuel flows (if they make such a beast...I don't know). I know my 2001 Suburban 3/4 ton 6.0L is not flexfuel.

FYI: You can have your existing injectors resized by Fuel Injector Connection if you need more flow.
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/viewcategory.php?groupid=118

Here are some of the higher flow stock injectors:

- The supercharged 6.2L LS9 and LSA engines injectors are reportedly 56-59-lb/hr @ 58PSI, part number: 0280158187.

- The Cadillac Escalade 6.2L FlexFuel L9H & L94 engines use 54-lb/hr at 58 psi injectors, part number 12609749, (possibly 42lb...)

- The 6.0L L96 FlexFuel engine uses a 40-42lb/hr injector part number 12587269.

Info:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1571836-lsx-family-injector-flow-rate.html
http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85647
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/gmt-900-trucks-188/what-size-injectors-6-2l-510832/page2/

Posted By: MPerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 12:39 PM

Does anyone have a pictures of a 411 LS1 PCM.
I believe I have one out of a 99 silverado that had a 4.8
Unfortunately there is no tag on it anymore.
Is it supposed to have 2 or 4 connectors?

Posted By: topbrent

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 01:07 PM

Quote:

Does anyone have a pictures of a 411 LS1 PCM.
I believe I have one out of a 99 silverado that had a 4.8
Unfortunately there is no tag on it anymore.
Is it supposed to have 2 or 4 connectors?

I believe the 12200411 pcm uses two 80-pin connectors.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 01:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anyone have a pictures of a 411 LS1 PCM.
I believe I have one out of a 99 silverado that had a 4.8
Unfortunately there is no tag on it anymore.
Is it supposed to have 2 or 4 connectors?

I believe the 12200411 pcm uses two 80-pin connectors.

That's correct...2 plugs and a '99 4.8 would be a 411 PCM.

And thanks for the injector part numbers....good info!

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 04:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Check out the Ford cam sensor from a '90s OHC motor. It's simple.

R.

Exactly what I was gonna mention, you need to plug the distributor hole anyway, the Ford design does that pretty cleanly...

I thought the same thing when I pulled this while rebuiling a ford 3.0 at work. It even has the same hex drive for the oil pump shaft. Hall effect w/2 pin plug, 5.030" OD shaft.....Might be easier/cleaner to mod one of these than fab something from scratch. Ford 5.0/4.0 and 3.0 pushrod motors all used them.

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 04:05 PM

'Nother

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 04:07 PM

One more...

Attached picture 7567073-100_8268.JPG

Posted By: topbrent

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/30/13 11:11 PM

Rich Nedbal of Mopar Engines West / http://www.fastmanefi.com/ does some neat EFI work. Although not based around the GM PCM, his FAST XFI setup does illustrate some very clean work to use as an idea.

M1 intake with LS2/LS7 shorty style injectors

Posted By: MPerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 01:09 AM

Yes the one I have looks like that.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 01:24 AM

very nice stuff...

Thats a superclean setup...Pulling the cam signal off an external belt drive too.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 01:44 AM

Any chance this setup would work with stock Gen III Hemi dual plug coils? I am looking at two Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs and the MSD controller currently, at a cost of about $1300. It would be nice to save some $$ and get a good tuneable EFI!

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 01:49 AM

For anyone that might be wanting to do this with drive-by-wire (don't be afraid it's just technology

) I have found (maybe) a supplier that makes 4x cam sensors in a dizzy for chevy's. Now, I don't yet know if they will sell them separate from their kit they offer but if they do it would be an easy way to adapt to 4x. If they won't sell them without buying a kit I am going to venture into modifying a 1x reluctor like Quicksilver440 used into creating a 4x signal that can be picked up by the sensor.

Does anyone know if there are any production engines that use a 4x reluctor and sensor that would fit in a Chrysler dist.?

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 02:30 AM

One thing I've always found very attractive about using an OE PCM is the fact they have the ability to store trouble codes & freeze frame data.. If something is wrong you know where to look, no aftermarket PCM that I'm aware of has that capability... The GM LS PCM has the ability to control the transmission, fans, traction control, boost control... All can be switched on or off within the program.... GM gave the programmer the ability to control everything from a mild daily driver to a very serious race package.... To bad Chrysler doesn't do stuff like that...

Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 02:53 AM

Quote:

Any chance this setup would work with stock Gen III Hemi dual plug coils? I am looking at two Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs and the MSD controller currently, at a cost of about $1300. It would be nice to save some $$ and get a good tuneable EFI!

Mopar Action did an article a couple of issues back about a guy that sells a kit to LS a Gen III Hemi, I think it was around the $1300 mark going by memory

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 02:58 AM

Quote:

Rich Nedbal of Mopar Engines West / http://www.fastmanefi.com/ does some neat EFI work. Although not based around the GM PCM, his FAST XFI setup does illustrate some very clean work to use as an idea.

M1 intake with LS2/LS7 shorty style injectors

Supercool .....But really way off track in regards to budget and do it yourselfedness (Sp?)

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 06:41 AM

Quote:

Any chance this setup would work with stock Gen III Hemi dual plug coils? I am looking at two Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs and the MSD controller currently, at a cost of about $1300. It would be nice to save some $$ and get a good tuneable EFI!

I don't know Greg.....let me research that a bit and see if I can figure it out for you.

Unless someone knows? The Hemitronix conversion uses GM LSX coils. I agree...it would be a whole lot nicer to have EFI for the same money...

Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 03:47 PM

We've been building more and more wiresets for these conversions. That's ours on the green engine bay. Who's car is that? There is another guy out in Cali as well, Pantera EFI. That is who is buiding my dualplug, dual coilpack Hemi..

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/31/13 06:06 PM

Quote:

That's ours on the green engine bay. Who's car is that?

Rich Nedbal, Fast Man EFI...

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 04:08 AM

Ok so back to the wiring....lol How are you going to feed the ECM a VSS signal from the mopar trans? Also Can I remove all the wires the used to go to the chevy trans? BTW I traded for a 24x/1x harness so I don't have to reengineer the cam signal problem

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 06:33 AM

Quote:

Any chance this setup would work with stock Gen III Hemi dual plug coils? I am looking at two Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs and the MSD controller currently, at a cost of about $1300. It would be nice to save some $$ and get a good tuneable EFI!

Greg,

I looked into that a little more...and I "think" this may make it doable:

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/quadspark/using_the_quadspark.htm

Posted By: prochargedhemi

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

Ok so back to the wiring....lol How are you going to feed the ECM a VSS signal from the mopar trans? Also Can I remove all the wires the used to go to the chevy trans? BTW I traded for a 24x/1x harness so I don't have to reengineer the cam signal problem

I know the older dodge ramcharger trucks has a vss that screwed on to the speedo gear, and then one off the rearend housing

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 03:32 PM

Quote:

Ok so back to the wiring....lol How are you going to feed the ECM a VSS signal from the mopar trans? Also Can I remove all the wires the used to go to the chevy trans? BTW I traded for a 24x/1x harness so I don't have to reengineer the cam signal problem

You have two options with the VSS, use a mechanical to electronic adapter that screws on the speedo drive at the trans from somewhere like Dakota Digital. OR.....what most people do is just turn off the VSS in the PCM with your tuning software and remove those wires from the harness. Then you just use a manual transmission base tune so that the PCM isn't trying to talk to the transmission and remove all the transmission wiring from the harness as well. This is the prefered option in my opinion.

When I get time I will write up a whole wiring post covering all the wiring part of this swap, including everything that should be removed from a stock harness and a pinout chart too.

I truely think the 24x/1x reluctors with a 411 is the easiest way to go too.

Posted By: kwikblownhemi

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 05:19 PM

If you plan to allow the ECM to control idle, especially with an automatic transmission, it is best to run the vss.

Using the manual trans tune will allow for the elimination of the PRND selector signal.

Too bad Mopar didn't make their ECMs HPTuners friendly. It rocks.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ok so back to the wiring....lol How are you going to feed the ECM a VSS signal from the mopar trans? Also Can I remove all the wires the used to go to the chevy trans? BTW I traded for a 24x/1x harness so I don't have to reengineer the cam signal problem

You have two options with the VSS, use a mechanical to electronic adapter that screws on the speedo drive at the trans from somewhere like Dakota Digital.

Would this work for that?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2887-1

Edit: it does appear that DD sells them cheaper than summit.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 08:37 PM

Any chance this GM PCM can be tricked into controlling a Mopar OD trans?

Kevin

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/01/13 09:46 PM

Probably...

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/03/13 06:28 PM

BTT I've almost got my harness completed just have to decide on which fuse block I want to run. I'll try to post some pics soon.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/03/13 09:31 PM

Quote:

just have to decide on which fuse block I want to run.

Have a look at this, configurable design, suprisingly affordable.. Order extra crimp on terminals so you can have a practice run..

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/...S_Tns_15300.pdf

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/03/13 10:25 PM

Quote:

Any chance this GM PCM can be tricked into controlling a Mopar OD trans?

Kevin

I assume you are talking about lockup and shifting OD ?

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/04/13 06:08 AM

Another question....how do you setup the injectors and ignition since the LS has a different firing order than chrysler?

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/04/13 07:01 AM

Quote:

Another question....how do you setup the injectors and ignition since the LS has a different firing order than chrysler?

Just swap injector and coil pins 2&3 and 7&4 at the pcm connector. And then in your tuning software, assign the proper firing order in the injector bank tables so the PCM can properly report codes/misfires, etc.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/04/13 07:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Any chance this GM PCM can be tricked into controlling a Mopar OD trans?

Kevin

I assume you are talking about lockup and shifting OD ?

I was wondering if it could control an RE trans as in 1 2 3 OD and lock up.

Kevin

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/05/13 06:27 AM

BTT C'mon mods can we get a sticky on this? I think this is a way for all of us guys that don't have deep pockets for F.A.S.T or BS3 and such to have a good reliable fuel inj. system. Guess every one is stuck in the dark ages

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/05/13 07:40 AM

I spent tonight working on a PINOUT chart for the wiring harness. There are many on the internet for making a standard standalone LS wiring harness, but I wanted to simplify it for everyone and show everything that can be removed for use in our mopars. I spent dozens of hours figuring out what I needed to keep and where everything needs to be hooked up. So, I plan to share the fruits of my labors with everyone so you don't have to.

Also, This could be applied to SB mopars the same way if someone wanted to. Some things to keep in mind, the harness will only end up being about 1/3rd or less of it's original size once you strip it down to a standalone harness. Also, the EASIEST way is to start with a LS1 1999-2002 F-body (Camaro/Trans-am) harness and use an 1999-2002 F-body based tune.

The truck harness's are cheaper (I paid about $75 for mine), but some wires are a little different and the truck O2 connectors are different and will have to be changed to F-body O2 connectors as well. I will not go into using truck tunes or using all the various truck o2 sensors as I didn't fully research this as there are many different truck o2 sensor configurations and I wanted to keep this as simple as possible. So, you can use the truck harnesses with additional effort, but just be sure to pin/wire it according to the chart I will post later (hopefully I will finish it in the next few days).

Posted By: Jerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/05/13 01:47 PM

really awesome work. keep it up. i'd be happy to lend any machined parts needed to the build. custom distributor pickup for cam sensor, perhaps.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/05/13 05:56 PM

Quote:

really awesome work. keep it up. i'd be happy to lend any machined parts needed to the build. custom distributor pickup for cam sensor, perhaps.

Thanks Jerry! I really appreciate that....I'll let you know.

Even though I have my one working Cam sensor already (Still needs a blank cap for the distributor though), I'm working on using another existing cam sensor from a Jeep that could be almost a drop in as it has the proper shaft on it already that should fit the oil pump drive. That way people can replicate what I've done more easily.

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/06/13 04:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

really awesome work. keep it up. i'd be happy to lend any machined parts needed to the build. custom distributor pickup for cam sensor, perhaps.

Thanks Jerry! I really appreciate that....I'll let you know. Even though I have my one working Cam sensor already (Still needs a blank cap for the distributor though), I'm working on using another existing cam sensor from a Jeep that could be almost a drop in as it has the proper shaft on it already that should fit the oil pump drive. That way people can replicate what I've done more easily.

I may have this done before you do!

Have been working on this exact setup all last week.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/06/13 05:37 AM

Redmist....did you try to use the complete Jeep cam sensor in a RB/B block? I ordered one which should be here this week for under $50....looks like it may work if the shaft is long enough and If I remove the gear....??

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/07/13 02:29 AM

BTT... I've got my harness almost finished, Just have to get all the pieces for the fuse block and relays. I've followed the instructions and pin-out charts on www.lt1swap.com. This page makes it a breeze especially if you are familiar with GM factory stuff. I will try to post pics of my harness this weekend when I get it all taped up. I'm going to try to get to the JY friday to get the parts to build the cam sensor pickup. I've got a GM 1X sensor I just need the reluctor and adapt it to an old distributor. FWIW The drive-by-wire stuff is all pretty much self contained into one connector and gets rid of the IAC and TPS. I like the idea of being able to place the TB in any position as my inlet from the intercooler comes in over the pass fender. It will make TB upgrades more expensive but it looks to be atleast 70mm so I think it will feed all my engine can take. Also the later 2005 harness I have also integrates the IAT into the MAF sensor.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/07/13 02:33 AM

BTW does anyone know if stock 5.2 dodge fuel rails will work with GM injectors?

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/08/13 04:30 AM

Quote:

Redmist....did you try to use the complete Jeep cam sensor in a RB/B block? I ordered one which should be here this week for under $50....looks like it may work if the shaft is long enough and If I remove the gear....??

Yes I am sir!!

The shaft is in fact long enough. All that needs to be done, is a bushing made to simulate the stock distributor, with a hole in the middle to hold the factory Jeep cam sensor. Even the factory distributor hold down will work. The gear on the Jeep sensor can be left in place, ans it holds the gots of the shaft, and it will just float in the block out of the way. The only modification to the whole jeep part is a little bit of cutting down of the keyed portion on the bottom of the shaft. I am going to run this part on the lathe this weekend. I can build you an extra if you want, it will be a CNC Program, so all I have to do is press cycle smash to get another one.

I am using the MS3X in full seqencial mode on both fuel and spark
36-1 trigger wheel off the crank, and the Jeep sensor for Cam. Spark will be coil close to plug using LS2 Truck coils.

Here is a small video I made tonight with an overview of the MS3X I built, and the Stim boards I built for testing it:

I will most likey start my own thread so we don't detract from the LS CPU route though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yudqswCg8

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/08/13 05:27 AM

Looks like Chrysler cloned Fords cam sensor..

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/08/13 07:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Redmist....did you try to use the complete Jeep cam sensor in a RB/B block? I ordered one which should be here this week for under $50....looks like it may work if the shaft is long enough and If I remove the gear....??

Yes I am sir!!

The shaft is in fact long enough. All that needs to be done, is a bushing made to simulate the stock distributor, with a hole in the middle to hold the factory Jeep cam sensor. Even the factory distributor hold down will work. The gear on the Jeep sensor can be left in place, ans it holds the gots of the shaft, and it will just float in the block out of the way. The only modification to the whole jeep part is a little bit of cutting down of the keyed portion on the bottom of the shaft. I am going to run this part on the lathe this weekend. I can build you an extra if you want, it will be a CNC Program, so all I have to do is press cycle smash to get another one.

Awesome man!

My sensor is supposed to be here tomorrow. Yes, that would be great if you can make me a bushing too.

Just PM me what I owe you for it....

I like the Jeep sensor since it's clean and smaller too.....

Did you find a harness connector yet that fits that cam sensor? I found this one that I think will work...kind of expensive for a connector, but should make for a clean install (let me know if you found a cheaper or different one...it's $26 on rockauto:

AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 1P1715 for a 2000/2001 Jeep Cherokee/Wrangler 4.0, is that the sensor you used?

Attached picture 7579806-connectorcamsensor.jpg

Attached picture 7579806-connectorcamsensor.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/08/13 07:23 AM

Quote:

Looks like Chrysler cloned Fords cam sensor..

Very similar, except the jeep one's shaft is shaped correctly to engage with the mopar oil pump drive.

Posted By: MPerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/08/13 11:59 AM

That is pretty cool.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/09/13 02:06 AM

That summit part is the 2002-2004 4.0 sensor....I never could figure out the difference between the 2000-2001 and the 2002-2004 sensors even though they have different part numbers. I saw one reference that suggested that the gear was maybe different...but the gear is unneeded anyways...so

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/09/13 06:43 PM

Do you guys think that would work on a smallblock? I can probably chop up a stock distributor to make the bushing for a SB. It is still a 1X signal right?

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/10/13 04:30 AM

Quote:

Do you guys think that would work on a smallblock? I can probably chop up a stock distributor to make the bushing for a SB. It is still a 1X signal right?

There's already a SB mopar EFI distributor with a 1x hall effect signal in it. I don't know the year offhand. It would be a lot bigger, but may be easier to use.

Does anyone know if there's a version of that jeep sensor comes with an 8-toothed wheel?

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/10/13 04:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Do you guys think that would work on a smallblock? I can probably chop up a stock distributor to make the bushing for a SB. It is still a 1X signal right?

There's already a SB mopar EFI distributor with a 1x hall effect signal in it. I don't know the year offhand. It would be a lot bigger, but may be easier to use.

Does anyone know if there's a version of that jeep sensor comes with an 8-toothed wheel?

Does anyone have an Idea on a year? That would really speed up my swap not having to fabricate one

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/10/13 07:59 AM

Quote:

Do you guys think that would work on a smallblock? I can probably chop up a stock distributor to make the bushing for a SB. It is still a 1X signal right?

Should work fine if you make a bushing/spacer to make the distributor the correct length. Yep...it's a 1X signal.

Posted By: Swedcharger67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/10/13 03:17 PM

Quote:

...
I am using the MS3X in full seqencial mode on both fuel and spark
36-1 trigger wheel off the crank, and the Jeep sensor for Cam. Spark will be coil close to plug using LS2 Truck coils.

Good stuff! I'm doing the same, but not given up on fitting the cam sensor in the timing cover yet!

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/11/13 10:03 PM

Hey Redmist...if you don't mind, post a pic of your cam sensor bushing/spacer adapter once your done with them.

That should help others figure out what is needed to make that work.

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/13/13 12:04 AM

I got it all worked up in solidworks, and programmed taken care of, I just need to clear a job off the lathe, and then I will turn a few of them.

The one pictured will require about .37 to be shaved off the bottom of the Jeep CPS shaft that keys into the pump drive. This can be done real easy with a dremel, or I might try adding that amount to the top of the adapter, but then a stock hold down may not work.

Stay tuned!

This will work for our applications, I just need to finish it up. This week for sure.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/13/13 01:02 AM

Awesome work man...

Trimming the shaft is no big deal...but either way should work.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/14/13 01:48 AM

Keeping it on the first page lol I promise I will have some pictures of my harness this weekend

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 01:15 AM

Whalllaaaa Peanut butter sammiches!!!!

You can ask for a 2003 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 "Cam Sequencer" to get the correct CPS/SHAFT DRIVE for this project.

I made two bushings, one for my project, and one for Quicksilver440.

PM Me your Address, and I will send yours out. The O-Ring groove is a little rough, but will work, and the bushing is a .001 slip fit to the CPS, so I hope the CPS's Tolerances are good!! Haha!

Posted By: mopar_mark

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 01:33 AM

Quote:

.

PM Me your Address, and I will send yours out. The O-Ring groove is a little rough, but will work, and the bushing is a .001 slip fit to the CPS, so I hope the CPS's Tolerances are good!! Haha!

Hi,
I would really like to get hold of a bushing, but I am in UK. If you dont mind posting to England, thats great, naturally I would pay for any pacjing, postae costs.

Is there anyway you could share your drg with me & I then could get one made at my local machine shop.

Thanks,
Mark . . .

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 04:20 AM

Could you make me one for a smallblock?

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 05:50 AM

Making it is not a problem... finding machine time to make it is...

I have 1200 Receiver extensions for AR Style rifles that need to be made first. When that is done, I may hammer out a few more of these things.

lets see how work goes!!

As far as sharing files and prints, I am bound by my work contract to not do that. People in the defense industry frown on shared documents no matter what it is.

It's a super simple part though, if you have a caliper, and both parts, it would be easy for any machine shop to make.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 07:45 AM

Awesome work!!

That made my day....

Looks great....I like this Jeep reluctor way better than my original prototype as it's smaller and doesn't require a new cap, etc. Just looks more finished...

I've been working on the simplified standalone wiring diagram a little....gotta get back on it. Been working on Honey-dos last 2 weekends....

Posted By: mopar_mark

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 10:54 AM

Quote:

As far as sharing files and prints, I am bound by my work contract to not do that. People in the defense industry frown on shared documents no matter what it is.

It's a super simple part though, if you have a caliper, and both parts, it would be easy for any machine shop to make.

No problem, I will measure & create my own sketch, was just looking to save some time.
Thanks,
Mark

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 06:36 PM

Note to self...before starting a project like this, price tuners before hand. Local shop wants $550+ for dyno tune to go to speed density, handheld tuner cost $499 + $50 each for some credit thing I can't understand. I think I may just ditch the GM computer and go with megasquirt so I can tune it myself for free

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 07:16 PM

I'd bet that included chassis dyno time during tuning....remember, you gotta compare apples to apples. My brothers shop I believe charges $299 ( CAL-SPEED & PERFORMANCE ) for a chassis dyno tune for an LSX based motor. Plus $100 extra for the Speed Density. It will cost you that much money for chassis dyno time even with Megasquirt.

Plus Megasquirt III is $645 for a built PCM...for $35 you can buy an LS 411 PCM (that's what I paid)+for $500 you can just buy the HP Tuners software (I've seen it for $250-$300 used) and tune it all yourself. So, it's still cheaper than Megasquirt (not that there's anything wrong with megasquirt)

Or for $35 for a LS1 PCM + $299-$400 for a MAF based tune by a tuner on a chassis dyno you don't even have to know how to tune and will be up an running.

Lot's of options...nothing wrong with Megasquirt though...

Posted By: prochargedhemi

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 07:20 PM

you can buy the whole holley kit (part# 550-605) for $1500 and it comes with everything you need?

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 10:16 PM

And one more time from a guy who's worked on allot of Fuel Injection... My vote is a OE PCM because they have diagnostic capabilities including freeze frame PID recording & trouble codes.. With aftermarket systems you need your laptop hooked up & you need to be viewing the proper parameters if & when something goes wrong... Hard faults are easy, intermittents can be challenging but if you've go an OE PCM it will detect a fault, set a code & record the data just prior to, during & after the event....

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 10:31 PM

Quote:

you can buy the whole holley kit (part# 550-605) for $1500 and it comes with everything you need?

That's not a bad way to go (but it isn't a totally complete system...as that's basically a PCM, software and harness)....still $1000 more than using an LS PCM and buying the tuning software. But you could use that setup with the 24X crank reluctor and 1X cam signal and would have a great system...but you still would be up in the $2000-2500 range min. depending on what kind of horsepower you are trying to support.

Also...the LS PCM will do pretty much anything you need to do.

So $550 or $1500...kinds blows the low buck part out of the water. So $800 minimum for a LS based system....or $2000 minimum for a Holley system.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/18/13 11:18 PM

I better just put this on hold until I have the money for the HP Tuner because the cheapest local shop I called today was $550 for a speed density tune on the dyno. I can buy the VCM suite for $500 with 8 credits and tune on the street..err I mean track. I'm starting to like my carburetor more and more

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 12:22 AM

Also...stay away from the handheld powertuners and such...they don't have the capabilities that you will need to make this kind of swap work....like turn off VAT's (some will), change firing order bank assignments, etc.

HPtuners or EFI Live (more $$) are the only ones with the capabilities we need.

But I can also use the HPtuners to tune/diagnose problems on my 6.0 Suburban too...

Or you could look for a used HPtuners...to save any more money....just make sure there are credits left on it...or that it's really cheap. make sure it's the newest version though...

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 12:36 AM

Quote:

And one more time from a guy who's worked on allot of Fuel Injection... My vote is a OE PCM because they have diagnostic capabilities including freeze frame PID recording & trouble codes.. With aftermarket systems you need your laptop hooked up & you need to be viewing the proper parameters if & when something goes wrong... Hard faults are easy, intermittents can be challenging but if you've go an OE PCM it will detect a fault, set a code & record the data just prior to, during & after the event....

It looks like MS3X Does all this as well, I can set parameter for "Check engine light" and the MS does real time logging non stop anyhow for as big as the card inserted is.

Plugging in a laptop is no different to me then plugging in an OBDII scanner except with the MS I get real data instead of just a trouble code.

I guess the LS tuning software does something similar??

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 02:19 AM

I grabbed my LS1 harness from a 1999 F body @ My work about two years ago waiting to do the same to my R3 engine. I would also like a Sb spacer also if you get time to whittle more up, just p/m me when you have one!

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 02:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

And one more time from a guy who's worked on allot of Fuel Injection... My vote is a OE PCM because they have diagnostic capabilities including freeze frame PID recording & trouble codes.. With aftermarket systems you need your laptop hooked up & you need to be viewing the proper parameters if & when something goes wrong... Hard faults are easy, intermittents can be challenging but if you've go an OE PCM it will detect a fault, set a code & record the data just prior to, during & after the event....

It looks like MS3X Does all this as well, I can set parameter for "Check engine light" and the MS does real time logging non stop anyhow for as big as the card inserted is.

Plugging in a laptop is no different to me then plugging in an OBDII scanner except with the MS I get real data instead of just a trouble code.

I guess the LS tuning software does something similar??

OBDII and even some OBDI systems would do real time data, What OBDII systems do is constantly log data saving about a five minute recording, dumping old data & saving the most recent... Then if a fault code is generated the PCM stores that data till it is manually deleted.... And goes back to recording waiting for any future failure... This data can all be accessed with a scan tool plus you can view live data..

It's good to hear one of the aftermarket companies is making an effort to help on the diagnostic side.... The OEM's have a much bigger budget & allot of very sharp engineers for developing a engine control package.. Most aftermarkets have a limited budget, one or two very sharp engineers with lots of passion for their product & hopefully a willingness to provide the highest quality components available.. But it's hard to compete with the OEM's years of experience & unlimited testing budget...

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 03:32 AM

Sounds like MS3X has much of the same capabilities...

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 03:32 AM

Quote:

I grabbed my LS1 harness from a 1999 F body @ My work about two years ago waiting to do the same to my R3 engine. I would also like a Sb spacer also if you get time to whittle more up, just p/m me when you have one!

Sweet!!

Posted By: 383man

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/19/13 04:08 AM

I am curious if any of these aftermarket units can record data that you can play back. I retired from Chrysler in early 2011 but from 1992 on up I could record data and then play it back in the bigger shop computer. I could set the trigger to go of from a code or manually by pushing the button. And when it acted up you would push the trigger and it would record 45 seconds before you hit it and 10 seconds more after hitting the trigger. That way if it had a glitch and you did not hit the button until 15 seconds later you would still get the recording. Funny thing was I was the only tech in my dealer who learned how to use it and I loved it. Had a Caravan that would drop cylinders about 45 mph that drove me nuts until I took a recording and saw the speed sensor was going crazy telling the PCM it was going as fast as 504 mph ! Course the PCM was speed rated to drop cylinders an 108 mph. These aftermarket units sound like they are pretty smart from what I hear but I have never fooled with one. Ron

Posted By: redmist

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/20/13 12:52 AM

Yes, MS3X Will record real time data to include your own voice making comments over the data as you go down the track. You can even tune the engine via bluetooth realtime if you want.

The thing about MS3X is it has unlimited budget since it's open source. heck, people are flushing ipads in the dashes of there cars and using the MS3X as a gauge cluster. That can see real time, logged, and tune the car off a single touch screen in the dash. Then you can watch a movie or play music I guess, haha

On top of that, you get programmable outputs, Launch control, soft, fuel, and spark limiters, 3 stages of nitrous control, it goes on and on and on!!

The tuning software is $40 for the good stuff, and it has a self learning feature built in.

This guy has a bunch of stuff graphed real time on a screen in his van, haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0RLx8UPS8w

Posted By: MattW

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/20/13 01:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I grabbed my LS1 harness from a 1999 F body @ My work about two years ago waiting to do the same to my R3 engine. I would also like a Sb spacer also if you get time to whittle more up, just p/m me when you have one!

Sweet!!

love this post.
I am surprised not to see the "It's not a MOPAR part bla bla bla........."

to you for figuring out a system to run your Mopar engine. I brought this up in another post a long time ago stating that Fiat should give up their encryption software to help out hot rodders.
It would be nice to use a factory Mopar ECM to run your Mopar engine.

Now for the real question. Drive by wire on an G3 Hemi does the ECM pick up the signal from the pedal AND throttle? Or is it just from the throttle? Is it posible to fab a mechanical cable to the throttle to get rid of the pedal?
Thanks for the great write up

Posted By: Burlapen

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/24/13 07:12 AM

I think I have read through the entire thread but I am still a little unsure on exactly what it takes to make this swap happen. Basically the main hangup is the cam sensor correct which is what all this custom machining is about, right?

Rob- Im in Central CA also. I have a complete 5.3 with harness and computer which I was going to use on another project but have since changed directions. So Im looking at this LS on the stand and the 440 in my satellite and thinking I can make this injection swap happen. I also have some spare coil packs and LS odds and ends if you need some.

Great thread

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/24/13 07:59 AM

The main issues are to get crank and cam sensor signals to the PCM....both can be accomplished as shown in this thread (there are 2 ways shown to get a cam signal).

The next issue is the wiring harness stripped down to a stand alone harness to get rid of 2/3rds of those unneeded wires, etc. You can follow many of the online guides to do this....but just switch the wires at the PCM for the change in the firing order. Other than that...it's mostly basic LS fuel injection tuning.

I'm just a few hours south of you

.
I appreciate the parts offer...I'll let you know if anything comes up...probably wont need any though since mines almost done.

I gotta get the pinout diagram finished....

Posted By: mopar65

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/24/13 08:35 AM

just got done reading this again sounds like something i would want to do to my car. but sorry if i missed it but how hard would this be to make work on my two for tunnel-ram. also wasn't you going to maybe offer this in a kit some way? don't really have the money to do it right now but latter on down the road i would like to do it to my car. thanks Mopar65

Posted By: gearheads78

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/24/13 08:37 AM

Thanks for sharing this. I have had this idea to use on an Olds project for a while just never seen it done.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/24/13 09:16 AM

Quote:

but sorry if i missed it but how hard would this be to make work on my two for tunnel-ram. also wasn't you going to maybe offer this in a kit some way? don't really have the money to do it right now but latter on down the road i would like to do it to my car. thanks Mopar65

Really no different on a tunnel ram....just add bungs to your manifold (can even be done with JB weld epoxy if you don't want to TIG them). You just have 2 Throttle bodies and just use the TPS and IAC on one of them.

I had originally thought about making the Crank and Cam sensor setups to sell, and the wiring harnesses. Don't know if I ever will do that or not....but I decided to just share what I've learned for now.

Maybe Redmist will make a batch of the cam sensor bushings to sell...that would make the swap easier too.

Posted By: LSP

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/03/13 12:46 AM

I have to say your quite resourceful Quicksilver!

Another crank sensor/trigger option if a damper with the 3 bolt GM pattern on front is used would be the Big Stuff 3 24 tooth wheel.

The OE LS1 computer and coils are good to 8000+ rpm. The tables in the HP Tuners software may stop at 8000 rpm, but the values maintain themselves at the 8000 rpm setting (flatline) when that rpm is exceeded.

Good Luck with your project, and please keep updating as you go.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/03/13 07:13 PM

Thanks man!

If your talking about this wheel:

The one shown won't work with the LS PCM....the LS 24X reluctor has a very unique tooth pattern. Or is there a different one made by BS3? I tried googling it..but thats all I found. It is 24X...but the wrong pattern for the LS PCM.

The LS PCM can definitly handle most engines needs...my brothers shop has several LS based cars (using stock LS PCM's) in the 8's. and he's building one that will hopefully be in the high 7's as his personal car.

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/04/13 01:18 AM

I just ordered the 24x for the BBC to adapt to the SBM. I just have to find where the keyway goes & Tig it to the front crank gear or slinger plate..

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/05/13 03:29 AM

Ok, two questions. how did you figure where #1 is on the 24x wheel & you are running two wheel sensors @ 27 degrees apart ?

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/05/13 09:46 PM

I'm just running one OEM crank reluctor (which essential is 2 wheel patterns riveted together...which produces one signal)...and one sensor.

Here is a pic showing when TDC#1 is located:

Attached picture 7614586-reluctorlsno1reference.jpg

Attached picture 7614586-reluctorlsno1reference.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/05/13 09:48 PM

Click the attachment link above for a bigger version of the pic....

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/05/13 11:38 PM

Ok couldn't wait to read all the posts, my question, what is you'r thoughts on a Hogan sheet metal cross ram with 2 fours on a hemi? Can it work? This would make my day.

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/06/13 02:33 AM

OK, thanks..That Q has been asked a lot on the Internet without a good response that I could find. So no need for two sensors then, Great. One advantage for the SB is the cast timing cover but I'll have to be super accurate when making the hole.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/06/13 03:01 AM

Quote:

Ok couldn't wait to read all the posts, my question, what is you'r thoughts on a Hogan sheet metal cross ram with 2 fours on a hemi? Can it work? This would make my day.

It will work if you can install injector bungs in that intake....not lots of room on that intake (but I'm sure it can be done)....plus you need room for a fuel rail.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/06/13 03:07 AM

Quote:

OK, thanks..That Q has been asked a lot on the Internet without a good response that I could find. So no need for two sensors then, Great. One advantage for the SB is the cast timing cover but I'll have to be super accurate when making the hole.

Yeah...the cast timing cover is easier to weld/epoxy a bung into...but placement has to be pretty close. A cranksensor relearn can be done in the tuning software to finetune any small error in placement, but I don't know for sure how close it has to be. That's one advantage to using an adjustable crank sensor....easy to dial in the sensor placement.

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 03:44 AM

Got my reluctor today, I think I will set my sensor up first In the cover then I Will index the reluctor
after the fact.

Attached picture 7617650-CAM00052.jpg

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 04:33 AM

could you go over again what i need to tune this setup, maybe a list, this is all new and i don't want to do twice. Mechanical part i got but that wiring diagram of the 40 pin thing still trying to understand

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 05:34 AM

OK,One more ? on you setup does the sensor on tdc pick up from the leading edge or more in the middle of the round sensor head? In other words is the sensor directly over the (pic or pip or just getting ready to read @ tdc) Theres not much wiggle room with the smaller 480 wheel under the cover. dave.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:16 AM

OK...I stayed up late finishing this up, so hopefully I can figure out how to post it and retain the quality of the pinout chart (saved it as a PDF). Click the "attachment" link above to get the Pinout chart I made, which also has notes at the bottom explaining the PCM programing changes needed to use this. If I made any errors...please let me know and I will fix them.

Also....striping down a stock harness is easy (especially if you use an 99-02 F-body harness). You can also use a truck harness (they are a lot cheaper...I see them for $75 sometimes)...but they will require you to swap around more pins (instead of just removing pins when using the F-body harness) and also with the truck harness you will have to reconfigure the O2 sensor wiring as they use various different style O2 sensors). I used a truck harness for my swap....

Attached File

7617896-MoparLSPinoutsPDF3-8-13.pdf (484 downloads)

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:27 AM

Quote:

OK,One more ? on you setup does the sensor on tdc pick up from the leading edge or more in the middle of the round sensor head? In other words is the sensor directly over the (pic or pip or just getting ready to read @ tdc) Theres not much wiggle room with the smaller 480 wheel under the cover. dave.

Dave...I wish I had a definitive answer for you..but I THINK it is the middle of the sensor, but you may have to do some trial and error here. I think the idea of cutting the keyway/indexing after sensor placement is a great idea though.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:39 AM

Pinout Page one (see attachment 2 posts above for PDF version).

Attached picture 7617901-MoparLSPinoutsPDF3-8-13-page-001.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:41 AM

Pinout Page two

Attached picture 7617902-MoparLSPinoutsPDF3-8-13-page-002.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:41 AM

Pinout Page three

Attached picture 7617903-MoparLSPinoutsPDF3-8-13-page-003.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:42 AM

Pinout Page four

Attached picture 7617904-MoparLSPinoutsPDF3-8-13-page-004.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/08/13 10:43 AM

I'll try and resize them tomorrow...I gotta go to bed. For now...just look at the PDF version.

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/10/13 07:57 PM

We have a 99 ls 5.7 here in the shop, I'm going to set up a degree wheel & check where the sensor is @ on TDC. The #1 pip might move over the sensor after TDC...I'm glad you brought this project to the forefront, I've been waiting to amass all this info for awhile.

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/11/13 09:39 PM

Quote:

..... I'm going to set up a degree wheel & check where the sensor is @ on TDC. The #1 pip might move over the sensor after TDC...

That's the way to do it.

Along with this pinout diagram...you just remove all the wires shown as "not used". A good general guide for making a "stand-alone" LS harness is available at:

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152458

and

http://www.lt1swap.com/98-02_ls1.htm

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/04/13 02:18 AM

How hard is the dbw setup? I was thinking that using that pcm that you could use the traction control for launch control..I picked up both styles just in case..

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/04/13 06:57 AM

Quote:

How hard is the dbw setup? I was thinking that using that pcm that you could use the traction control for launch control..I picked up both styles just in case..

DBW will work...you will need ALL of the DBW matching parts though. Pedal, control box and matching PCM. Most people don't go that route in swaps...but it could be done. I don't have all the details figured out for that setup though....

Posted By: 71_340s_Only

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/10/13 06:09 PM

TTT....very interested in this conversion. Any updates?

Posted By: j.mcconnell

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/16/13 02:55 PM

Not to hijack, but I've been doing some research as well. It seems Microsquirt2 v3 (with some minor mods)can run with just the 24x GM wheel and no cam sensor. It is batch-fire fuel and waste-fire spark but several people are running 700hp+ boosted engines with it. Conveniently, when wiring for waste-fire spark the cylinder pairs are the same for an LS1 and small block mopar. It looks very simple to install and you can still use junkyard LS1 coils, throttle body, etc. I plan to install a 24x wheel like Quicksilver did and follow these directions:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543066

This seems like a simple option for those looking to tune their own car. Its about $350-400 for the microsquirt, so cost will probably end up about the same as using the GM computer and paying for the tune.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 06/24/13 05:32 AM

BTT bringing this one back from the dead as I'm getting ready to finally swap....really tired of tuning with the carb lol

Posted By: gpuller

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 06/25/13 02:37 PM

Wondering if any more progress has been made too. think I've read this whole thread a dozen times.
Its something I'd like to possibly do, I found a shop somewhat close that tunes LS dirt cars. They will put a base tune on your computer for what I think is a reasonable price. Haven't called them to see if they would be willing to something like this.

Posted By: RADAMX

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 06/25/13 05:14 PM

I did the EFI with coils about 10 years ago with a AEM ecm and LS coils . It is nice to be able to tune fuel and timeing on a individual cylinder. I run 400 hp nitrous .
But with out EGTs or 8 O2s I am not sure I would bother as it is going to be a tunning nightmare .
I have 8 EGTs and 2 O2s .would like 8 O2s but that is cost prohibitive.
We are running the Factory Ls computers on some stuff and I can tell you it is good stuff . It how ever is not as good as A good aftermarket ECM . I have A lot more usable features in my AEM. the factory Ecm is dedicated where others make them much more flexable.
As you can see I covered my Ls coils as they are ugly as sh!t

Posted By: PC-CHARGER

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 12/01/13 05:45 AM

I plan on using a Jeep cam sensor like the one you have mentioned in this thread. The pinout shows a 5V in, GND and 0-5V output. I assume that one would have to regulate the 12V battery voltage down to 5V for this sensor?

Attached picture 7942356-pinout.jpg

Posted By: Quicksilver440

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 12/01/13 09:20 AM

The 5 volts will be provided by the pcm...

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 12/02/13 05:32 PM

I'm still working on collecting parts lol but my harness is done and ready to loom. Waiting on my money tree to grow

Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 12/02/13 11:32 PM

Quote:

I plan on using a Jeep cam sensor like the one you have mentioned in this thread. The pinout shows a 5V in, GND and 0-5V output. I assume that one would have to regulate the 12V battery voltage down to 5V for this sensor?

Regulated 5V is provided by the FAST ECU at the TPS and MAP sensors (red wires).

Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 01/04/14 06:53 AM

I still need a bushing to use the Jeep Dizzy, Any one have anything?

Posted By: plazomat

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 03/09/14 05:10 AM

Posted By: gpuller

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/13/15 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By Dos Snails

I still need a bushing to use the Jeep Dizzy, Any one have anything?

SD Concepts is making them.

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 04/14/15 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By gpuller

Originally Posted By Dos Snails

I still need a bushing to use the Jeep Dizzy, Any one have anything?

SD Concepts is making them.

Yes, very nice piece well worth the asking price.

Posted By: smb03

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 12/21/15 06:47 PM

do you have to time or sync the crank reluctor ring and cam sensor, if so is it done off cylinder 1 tdc?

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/22/17 03:09 AM

Where do you purchase the SD concepts bushing? I don't see the option on their site. Is there another option?

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/22/17 03:10 AM

Hows that for a resurrection?

Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/22/17 04:41 AM

Did you see the new cam sensor from Andy F?
I have them in stock. Checkout the CNP page on my website.

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/22/17 05:44 AM

Ya its all nice stuff..

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/22/17 05:58 AM

I emailed Jerry, I don't have the address handy though. You might check out the facebook page for them.

Posted By: Jerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/23/17 01:53 PM

i'm here, you can pm me here. I've got kids at camp and i'm in and out of the office. we have the cps bushings on the shelf as well as our crank trigger kits for big blocks and small blocks. IF they would have asked rich wouldn't have had to reinvent the wheel

Posted By: Jerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/23/17 01:56 PM

we have a 24x trigger wheel available for our crank trigger kits as well if anyone needs those.

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/25/17 07:48 AM

Originally Posted By Jerry

Your PM box is full. I cant pm you. I'd like to get one of those Bushings.

Posted By: Jerry

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 07/25/17 01:04 PM

all cleaned out. parts are in stock and ready to ship

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 08/28/17 03:32 AM

Any Idea what voltage the Jeep cam sensor uses? 5 or 12vts? Same question for the GM crank trigger sensor. Any ideas?

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 08/28/17 03:47 AM

i have my jeep sensor running on 5v

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 08/28/17 06:54 AM

How about the crank trigger? I am using the sdconcepts trigger kit. Its a gm style sensor.

Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 08/28/17 03:54 PM

I can't speak for the GM sensor but I am running 5V to my crank sensor. It is a Cherry Brand hall effect sensor that will run on 5-24V. Great sensors for anything that spins.

Posted By: Mr onetwo

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project - 02/03/18 10:44 PM

Any updates or tweaks to this? I can't find any deals on Camaro/Firebird harnesses anywhere.Prices on any used stuff have exploded since this was written.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: My 440 EFI-Coil on Plug/LS PCM ignition-UPDATED PINOUTS - 02/04/18 09:34 PM

Here is the setup I have for my low deck 470. I still need to get some custom wires from Gorski and then I'll be ready to fire it up. (once it is back in the car of course)

Attached picture DSC_2099 (Large).JPG

Posted By: Mr onetwo

Re: My 440 EFI-Coil on Plug/LS PCM ignition-UPDATED PINOUTS - 02/06/18 04:22 AM

Sweet Andy...can't wait to see it in the car.Can you tell me more about the intake you used?

Posted By: AndyF

Re: My 440 EFI-Coil on Plug/LS PCM ignition-UPDATED PINOUTS - 02/06/18 05:07 AM

It is a Trick Flow intake that has been ported by Wilson Manifolds. They also did the EFI conversion for me.

Attached picture DSC_1301 (Large).JPG

My 440 EFI-Coil on Plug/LS PCM ignition-UPDATED PINOUTS