SB: What heads??

Posted By: DakFink

SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 07:29 PM

Been looking and talking and contemplating New heads for a Magnum Based engine I want to build.

I'm looking for a set of heads that will fill the bill but not be overkill or fall short either.

Here's what I'm planning.
4.250stroke x 4.040 bore
7000rpm redline
Pump Gas
10.5-11.5:1 compression
Roller Cam

Vehicle:
4000lbs
4.56gears
28" tires
currently 3200 stall convertor

Looking to build a HOT Street motor, Red Light Bruiser/Cruiser.

IF it ever sees the track it would be every once in a while.

The heads I have looked at so far are:
Edelbrock Magnum
Airwolf 220's
Indy 360-1

What say YE!

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:06 PM

Indy -1 is THE only way to go for serious power with that combo!

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:08 PM

Here's a pic of David Deans heads I did for him:

Attached picture 7515633-004.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:11 PM

Posted By: DakFink

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:18 PM

Quote:

Indy -1 is THE only way to go for serious power with that combo!

Figured that!!

I'm just going to have to cough it up and fork over the $$$$ when I finally get around to it!!

I'll probably be calling you none the less!!

Thanks Brian

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:24 PM

More pics

Posted By: 79410aspenrt

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 08:25 PM

I will be doing the same when $$$$ is flowing again. I need the 360-1 real bad to push 3800 lbs down the 1320!

Stop with the pictures Brian!!!!

Posted By: Abodyjohn88

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 09:04 PM

If it has to be one of those 3 heads than defanitly the Indy...but what ahout a.w8 or w9?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 09:34 PM

Quote:

If it has to be one of those 3 heads than defanitly the Indy...but what ahout a.w8 or w9?

Only real problem with the W8-W9 is you really NEED a 48� block.
But I agree, W9 would be nice. I'm this close (thumb and forefinger almost touching) to having Sam at TTI do headers based on the W9 casting.
He's waiting for me to do an engine, supply the car and then mockup for it. This would be just like their LA and W2 headers, but 2" and 3.5" collector.
Once that happens, it'll be much cheaper and easier to do W9's in an A body!

Until then, it's a bit more costly to do than Indy heads.
I'm sure once the Victor heads arrive, they'll be good but I expect shortcomings as with all newly released mopar heads.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 09:38 PM

Brian can you share the flow numbers on those -1's? Did they start as 245's?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 09:44 PM

Quote:

Brian can you share the flow numbers on those -1's? Did they start as 245's?

I can, but I won't have them until Wed. as we are closed mon. and tues.
They topped out at .750 lift at 360 something, and stayed there, did not lose flow after that up to 1".
At .500 I believe they were 316 or 318. I used a 2.125 x 5/16 intake valve, angle milled them down, our valve job, some short turn work, slight bowl work and chamber work.
This was a 245cnc intake port, but I did the ex. port and chamber myself. I don't like Indy's ex. port and chamber at all.

Posted By: Uncle Barry

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If it has to be one of those 3 heads than defanitly the Indy...but what ahout a.w8 or w9?

Only real problem with the W8-W9 is you really NEED a 48� block.
But I agree, W9 would be nice. I'm this close (thumb and forefinger almost touching) to having Sam at TTI do headers based on the W9 casting.
He's waiting for me to do an engine, supply the car and then mockup for it. This would be just like their LA and W2 headers, but 2" and 3.5" collector.
Once that happens, it'll be much cheaper and easier to do W9's in an A body!

KEEP US POSTED ON THIS!

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/23/12 11:00 PM

Quote:

I'm this close (thumb and forefinger almost touching) to having Sam at TTI do headers based on the W9 casting.
He's waiting for me to do an engine, supply the car and then mockup for it. This would be just like their LA and W2 headers, but 2" and 3.5" collector.

X2 keep us posted!

Posted By: DakFink

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/24/12 05:53 PM

Quote:

If it has to be one of those 3 heads than defanitly the Indy...but what ahout a.w8 or w9?

I have W9's sitting on my shelf BUT the cost even cutting corners where I can it still adds up fast and exceeds what I could do with Indy.

As Brian said I would need to get a 48* block at $2200-2600 ad $2000 for machining that it will need. Ad $250-300 for AN Hoses and Fitting for cooling. $200-250 for an AN to Radiator Manifold, $1350 for T&D Rockers, $400-500 for an oil pan, $600-700 for Lifters, $500-800 for Lifter Bushings. ETC ETC!!!

When I have pretty much everything except the rotating assembly and heads. That's a lot of money I shouldn't have to be spending for what I want to do.

OH and the fact that the W8&9's have no place on them to mount Accessories of any kind. At least the Indy's come with LA mounting holes and the Magnum holes can be added (or even ordered from Indy) as needed.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/24/12 06:51 PM

I'm sure you're well aware of a stock blocks limitations. I'm not sure building a 435" engine with a stock block and -1 heads is the best idea ever.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/24/12 07:35 PM

Quote:

I'm sure you're well aware of a stock blocks limitations. I'm not sure building a 435" engine with a stock block and -1 heads is the best idea ever.

Don't beat on it like a redheaded step child and it should last a while!!

As I stated in my first post this won't be a Race/Drag car!! Just a cruiser with some UMMPH!!

Plus I have an extra already on the floor of the garage and can pick them up all day long for $600 or less.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/24/12 08:40 PM

Going along with the previous comment, when you have killer heads and big cubes for a stock block, the best advise I can offer is to slightly under-cam the combo, you'll still have massively satisfying torque and power but by limiting the peak torque RPM you'll resist the temptation to over-rev it and beat the block to death.

Opinions vary, but that's the way I'd do it.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 05:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm sure you're well aware of a stock blocks limitations. I'm not sure building a 435" engine with a stock block and -1 heads is the best idea ever.

Don't beat on it like a redheaded step child and it should last a while!!

That's why I build them

Hope you can show more restraint than I would.

Posted By: Abodyjohn88

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 07:19 AM

Brian what valve angles are the Indy heads?

Posted By: DavidDean

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 07:27 AM

I think mine are 2.150 & 1.60. They work VERY well for me and Brian's ports don't leak water.

Posted By: Ian

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 09:01 AM

why not the 230 cnc indys but it you will more converter if trying to save money a little the air wolf will work better with the smaller converter

Posted By: DakFink

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 09:43 AM

Quote:

Going along with the previous comment, when you have killer heads and big cubes for a stock block, the best advise I can offer is to slightly under-cam the combo, you'll still have massively satisfying torque and power but by limiting the peak torque RPM you'll resist the temptation to over-rev it and beat the block to death.

Opinions vary, but that's the way I'd do it.

That's the plan!!!

No reason to build/cam it to go beyond 7000rpms Not going to need it not going to use it.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 04:55 PM

I'm still debating the 4.125 vs 4.25 stroke for my next motor.

I have a 4.04" by 4.17" stroker SB Windsor Ford in my Cobra replica, it's got some well ported Trick flow heads and driving it it feels Exactly like a 427 FE big block without all the extra weight, this motor redlines at 6200 which is plenty for a 2450 pound Toy. Good heads with strong mid lift flows are really the key to get the broad torque, too big of a head ( high lift flows) are IMO Not the way you want to go, some of the more race oriented heads don't really flow much if any better than smaller ( less expensive) heads below around .450-.500 lift....so just keep it in mind that big heads really need bigger (less streetable) cams to work the ports....and with a relatively mild cr you may spend much more on the top end of the motor than you need to vs a more thought out solid street combo.

Take a look at Bryce's airwolf torque curve on that 408 with a mild street roller, you could run 3.91 gears at 4000 pounds and still have more wall to wall torque than most street cars can possibly hook, broad torque like that is indicative of awesome part-throttle and roll-on power, that's what makes stroker small block motors feel like big blocks on the street, and what makes the right combo so much fun the drive.

Posted By: Devilbrad

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 07:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm sure you're well aware of a stock blocks limitations. I'm not sure building a 435" engine with a stock block and -1 heads is the best idea ever.

Don't beat on it like a redheaded step child and it should last a while!!

As I stated in my first post this won't be a Race/Drag car!! Just a cruiser with some UMMPH!!

Plus I have an extra already on the floor of the garage and can pick them up all day long for $600 or less.

And a couple replacements with machining and replacing all the broken parts will probably cost what an R3 block does. Do it right the first time.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/25/12 11:08 PM

Quote:

Brian what valve angles are the Indy heads?

They are stock 17.5� from Indy and we usually angle mill them .5� so they end up at 17.

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/27/12 12:43 AM

Might just be a cruiser but we still need to know how much horsepower you want to make. Cruiser with some oomph? If that means 500hp and 550 ft lbs, just bolt on some stock eddies. With 435 cubes it would be there pretty easily.

Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/27/12 02:21 PM

Quote:

Might just be a cruiser but we still need to know how much horsepower you want to make. Cruiser with some oomph? If that means 500hp and 550 ft lbs, just bolt on some stock eddies. With 435 cubes it would be there pretty easily.

- my 430 with a small roller, eddy air gap and STOCK eddy heads made 511 hp

430 with same cam, only a victor 340, and SSDS stage 4's made 566 hp

bigger cam, super victor and MCH CNC eddy's made 627 hp

Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/27/12 03:35 PM

Sorry to thread jack but Brian, what lifters are you using and is that a stock 59* block?

Deputy

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/27/12 07:08 PM

Quote:

Sorry to thread jack but Brian, what lifters are you using and is that a stock 59* block?

Deputy

Which engine are we referring to? In 59� blocks I use Comp 8043-16 lifters.

Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/27/12 08:42 PM

Yes a stock 59* block with -1 heads. I'm running the 360-1 245 cnc heads on my magnum block with T&D 1.7 shaft rockers and comp offset lifters. I had to grind the block to fit them, well I didn't grind enough apparently and broke two link bars from wedging into the block.

Deputy

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/28/12 12:56 AM

Quote:

Yes a stock 59* block with -1 heads. I'm running the 360-1 245 cnc heads on my magnum block with T&D 1.7 shaft rockers and comp offset lifters. I had to grind the block to fit them, well I didn't grind enough apparently and broke two link bars from wedging into the block.

Must not have been 8043's? 8043 lifters are not offset, and you cannot run offset lifters in a 59� block!

Deputy

Posted By: sshemi

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/28/12 09:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes a stock 59* block with -1 heads. I'm running the 360-1 245 cnc heads on my magnum block with T&D 1.7 shaft rockers and comp offset lifters. I had to grind the block to fit them, well I didn't grind enough apparently and broke two link bars from wedging into the block.

Must not have been 8043's? 8043 lifters are not offset, and you cannot run offset lifters in a 59� block!

Deputy

Why not???

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/28/12 01:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yes a stock 59* block with -1 heads. I'm running the 360-1 245 cnc heads on my magnum block with T&D 1.7 shaft rockers and comp offset lifters. I had to grind the block to fit them, well I didn't grind enough apparently and broke two link bars from wedging into the block.

Must not have been 8043's? 8043 lifters are not offset, and you cannot run offset lifters in a 59� block!

Deputy

Why not???

because those lifters actualy clear everything without grinding,atleast my set cleared everywhing nicely and you dont want ofset lifters in a 59degree block since the ofset cup will try to rotate the lifter and therefore putting a force on the linkbar wich the linkbar is not designed to handle,this is not a problem with a 48degre block since the pushrods dont get as much leverage on the lifter as they get on the "angled down" 59 degre lofterbores. hope that was understandable

Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/28/12 04:53 PM

Well damn, guess I will be ordering 8043-16 lifters then. Its not a total waste as I plan to get an R3 block soon anyway, thanks for the help.

Deputy

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: SB: What heads?? - 12/28/12 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yes a stock 59* block with -1 heads. I'm running the 360-1 245 cnc heads on my magnum block with T&D 1.7 shaft rockers and comp offset lifters. I had to grind the block to fit them, well I didn't grind enough apparently and broke two link bars from wedging into the block.

Must not have been 8043's? 8043 lifters are not offset, and you cannot run offset lifters in a 59� block!

Deputy

Why not???

If you try to run an offset lifter in a sb mopar, the pushrod will hit the inside of the lifter before it will reach the rocker!