Moparts

Wheelie Bars and Parachutes...

Posted By: Jeepmon

Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/24/12 08:02 PM

My crystal ball is telling me I'll be needing both a set of wheelie bars and a chute in the very near future.. Neither of which I have any hands on experience with..

The car is a back half, tubbed Duster with a ladder bar set up.. I believe it already has the mounts for the wheelie bars.. but I need a whole lotta learnin on what ever you wanna teach me..

So if you car to share the in's and out's of what I need.. what I should buy.. and what I should look out for.. I'd appreciate it..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/24/12 08:14 PM

Longer bars have better leverage and with bars that
are 70" or longer I wouldnt run the spring type...
I have 62" with the spring at the back wheels...
Posted By: 87MO DAK

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/24/12 09:05 PM

I have these kicking around the garage....They are 35" long.

Attached picture 7474787-Picture034(Small).jpg
Posted By: JD Dart

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/24/12 10:09 PM

I would get Stroud parachute if you ever packed a simpson you hate life when you use it. http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html
With wheelie bars get them longer and from a good place like
http://www.jerrybickel.com/
http://www.rjracecars.com/
I got a wheelie bar kit from another company only thing I used from there's was the chrome/moly had to get the wheels and hardware from Jerry Bickel
Posted By: Eric

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/24/12 11:20 PM

Quote:

I have these kicking around the garage....They are 35" long.



I have those bars and a Stroud chute...

Attached picture 7474946-photo(4).JPG
Posted By: mopartony

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 12:34 AM

I will suggest a spring loaded chute over the pull the handle and hope it comes out.

If it were me I would shy away from spring loaded wheelie bars. Just me, my opinion.

You shouldn't anything longer than 60-62".
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 01:23 AM

Quote:

I would get Stroud parachute if you ever packed a simpson you hate life when you use it. http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html
With wheelie bars get them longer and from a good place like
http://www.jerrybickel.com/
http://www.rjracecars.com/
I got a wheelie bar kit from another company only thing I used from there's was the chrome/moly had to get the wheels and hardware from Jerry Bickel

good advice & great parachute,and when its mounted correctly you can take it off with 1 bolt.
Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 01:58 AM

Are there any pros or cons regarding the Anthony jones engineering wheelie bars?
Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 02:31 AM

Don't know if you are fabbing it up yourself, if somebody else I would go talk to Mike Bolla, he is across from MEW and does great work. just mentioning him as I believe he is close to you.

BTW, did you make up your mind on a box? just wondering if you are gonna play in SP or be one of the fastest cars in Pro.
Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 04:17 AM

Hmmm don't know why a Stroud is any easier to pack than a Simpson? I got the Simpson IIRC it was quite a bit cheaper? Mine has worked fine the few times I have pulled it, didn't touch the brake at all in this video till I actually came to a full stop around the corner course i was only doing 148 and Sonoma has a long shutdown and a bit uphill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...p;v=S36VkZdDdkw
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 04:33 AM

We have used three RJ Racecars wheelie bar kits and they worked great. My chutes are both Simpson PITA to pack but we rarely pull them. Never did at Sonoma or Sac and that was going 170 in the big tire car.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 08:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have these kicking around the garage....They are 35" long.



I have those bars and a Stroud chute...



Eric(Twinky Butt)got your letter,thanks.
In your case it's call sissy sticks.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/25/12 09:02 PM

Things Don's race car won't require. I'll take slow bracket racers for $200 alex!
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 01:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have these kicking around the garage....They are 35" long.



I have those bars and a Stroud chute...



Eric(Twinky Butt)got your letter,thanks.
In your case it's call sissy sticks.




That's his new nickname???Didn't anyone warn him NOT to go BEHIND the barn??
Posted By: Eric

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 01:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have these kicking around the garage....They are 35" long.



I have those bars and a Stroud chute...



Eric(Twinky Butt)got your letter,thanks.
In your case it's call sissy sticks.




That's his new nickname???Didn't anyone warn him NOT to go BEHIND the barn??



In the spring we'll stuff the Bear in the Arrow...just have to make sure he has his depends on for that pass.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 01:50 AM

Eric....I heard that Bob won't drive go-karts...
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 05:29 AM

Thanks for your responses guys..

Do have another question.. is the length of the bars determined by the weight of the car.. or is it the power of the motor...?
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 05:30 AM

Quote:

Don't know if you are fabbing it up yourself, if somebody else I would go talk to Mike Bolla, he is across from MEW and does great work. just mentioning him as I believe he is close to you.

BTW, did you make up your mind on a box? just wondering if you are gonna play in SP or be one of the fastest cars in Pro.




I looked for you at Sonoma... you werent there
Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 06:05 AM

Ok Don I will go sideways from the post topic, spent the prior week in Alabama and came home Friday with the full intention of going then mid-Saturday went for a long bike ride and here is what I came up with on that ride (read excuses!!!)

1) Why go out and race when I can get another good ride in tomorrow.
2) Besides the motor home is already winterized and right now cannot fathom the thought of towing out with the truck. (yes, it has spoiled me)
3) I know it is gonna be 11 am before the 1st car goes down the track due to the fog and that means probably one time shot,
4) New motor should be ready just before the 1st real race next year.
5) If I play hooky from racing tomorrow after my bike ride maybe the Mrs's and I can take the Harley out since I don't seem to make time for it anymore.

Day went pretty good although felt way like I should be somewere else........aaarghhh
Drank coffe rode my bike, went for another short bike ride with the wife then took the Mrs's for a ride on the loud bike then watched the last few rounds on 1320.com aaarghhhhh

Is 2013 racing season here yet?

Only bad part was Rich's text at 8am saying he would be late to the track? sorry Rich I am not there either!

OK back on subject, I think you will need those aforementioned parts and remember I am the one who told you "get ready to open up that wallet to this disease!"

keith
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 06:29 AM

Those are some nice excuses.. I like them..

Quote:

OK back on subject, I think you will need those aforementioned parts and remember I am the one who told you "get ready to open up that wallet to this disease!"



I was trying to stay polite.. but yeah.. I remember.. and yeah.. I curse you under my breath everytime I pull out the wallet.. lol

Seriously.. yeah, you were right.. its getting pretty darn expensive.. and the car isnt even race ready yet
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 02:05 PM

Quote:

Eric....I heard that Bob won't drive go-karts...



You got that right Ted,go-karts are for little kids. It's like dating the ugly fat girl,they can be a lot of fun but you wouldn't be able to "Bear" it if some one seen you.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 03:03 PM

Quote:

Longer bars have better leverage and with bars that
are 70" or longer I wouldnt run the spring type...
I have 62" with the spring at the back wheels...



I have 66 inch bars and wish they were longer. The further back from the rear axle the bar hits, the less it unloads the tires. I would also keep an eye on weight. Strong, but light. Same with the chute mount. Chrome moly where possible.
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 04:54 PM

Thank you
Posted By: 408strokerdart

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 05:49 PM

Mine ended up about 72" behind the rear axle. That was as long as would fit in my trailer and still close the door. They don't unload the rear tires and I can barely tell when I'm riding the bars or not.

Stroud chute all the way. Much easier to pack. Do yourself a favor and do a launcher type the first time also. I wish I had the launcher on mine on some of these short shut down tracks.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 05:50 PM

The longer the bars the more leverage they have. You planning on using them as a tuning tool or a safety device? Lots of stuff to learn if you plan to use them as a tuning device for sure. If you truly use them in this way 1/4" and inch the wrogn way can lead to very bad results. I'll show you in a bit.

As for how long. HP plays a rol as well as rear suspension set up weight bias, shocks and how well they control things and so on. This is how I did it with the big tire car. We loaded the car in the trailer as far forward as I was comfortable with. Shut the rear door and measured what was left. Viola we had our bar length, in my case 74". I sure you know we use them as a tuning aide on both cars. I tend to ride the bars for a fair amount.

Back to the 1/4" deal. In this video and picture my crew chief had the bars set incorrectly. 1/4" of stagger on the wrong side lead to this. This is midflight Oh yeah this was with a set of 50" bars on the car. Which do not provide near enough leverage on my car. We went to the long bars but bent the uppers three times before we finally buolt a set of double wall slip tube uppers. Like I said we tended to ride them pretty hard back then. We now have a much better pair of custom built rear shocks and can calm it down a bunch.


Here is the video version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhaW9zfEkZE&feature=plcp
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 05:56 PM

Quote:



Here is the video version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhaW9zfEkZE&feature=plcp




WOW... that was insane
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 06:02 PM

This is the new set, with the corrct stagger. You can see by the chalk we get on them kinda hard. Sits them down just about 60'.
Posted By: Palindrome Cuda

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/26/12 09:05 PM

Boy ! I can see this is going to be a long winter !!!
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/27/12 10:55 PM

Some wheelie bars have flat bar for the bottom, some have round tube.. does this make any difference?

Also, we've measured the clearance in the trailer and we have between 60 and 65 inches of room with the door close.. Is this an appropriate length for a Duster, A body car?
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/27/12 11:36 PM

I am still curious about the packing of the chute.I had planned on all Simpson products.It looks to me that ALL the chutes are a PITA.
Also is thier a science on the length of the bars? Or is it fit what fits
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 12:31 AM

Quote:

Some wheelie bars have flat bar for the bottom, some have round tube.. does this make any difference?

Also, we've measured the clearance in the trailer and we have between 60 and 65 inches of room with the door close.. Is this an appropriate length for a Duster, A body car?



The lower bar doesnt matter... that is in tension but
the upper bar is in compression... if you can get 65"
in your trailer then thats what your gonna run...
no way would I spend time to pull the bars off every
time I wanted to load... I use to have my cabinets
at the front but with the golfcart in front and the
car behind I was too long... so I winched the car in
backwards so the bars would go under the cart...
then I moved my cabinets to the left side of the
trailer and I can pull the cart to the front wall
and drive the car in forwards now... I have about
6" to spare now
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 12:43 AM

Solid round tube is what you want..Not spring loaded or flat spring types. IF you want something you can tune with. If you want the look then by all means AS for length way to many facotrs but in general the longer the better. Better leverage less shock..
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 12:46 AM

On the chute deal if you are looking for ease of packing thats easy. Stroud wins hands down. In my case we pull it once a year so that is not a big deal.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 12:51 AM

Al...Your car is just gorgeous in those pics! Looks like the bars are working!!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 01:00 AM

Quote:

Solid round tube is what you want..Not spring loaded or flat spring types. IF you want something you can tune with. If you want the look then by all means AS for length way to many facotrs but in general the longer the better. Better leverage less shock..



Al is correct and mine are round bar(I dont care for
the flat ones) but if you go with a 65" I would run
the springs at the wheel... they slow the impact on
shorter bars otherwise it will unload the tires...
I usually run the wheels about 2" off the ground
in gear(in my sig pic they are 4")
Posted By: dvw

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 03:32 AM

Quote:

Solid round tube is what you want..Not spring loaded or flat spring types. IF you want something you can tune with. If you want the look then by all means AS for length way to many facotrs but in general the longer the better. Better leverage less shock..


Since I really don't know much about bars, what is the problem with flat style or springs? I guess I'm just looking for something to keep it from going up to high. Don't believe I'll use them to tune,just a safety net to save the oil pan and headers. Any thoughts?
Doug

Attached picture 7479560-0312121859.jpg
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 07:07 AM

Doug you will likely be fine with them. They work great for that purpose, but not as a tuning aid. Difficult to control a wheelie ith a spring loaded bar.
Posted By: dvw

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 11:27 AM

Great, That's what I wanted to know. If needed I can always upgrade.
Doug
Posted By: jyrki

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 01:23 PM

What about the single wheel bars?
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 02:55 PM

On cars built similar to Dougs' we use round tube CM bars with springs for best results.The flat bars tend to bend with high HP,big wheelstanding cars.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 05:30 PM

Well I personally would never build wheelie bars with anything other than round CM tubing, but that is me. The bars Doug has are popular in Stock and a lot of SS cars. they dont really control anything but they do keep them off the bumper which in these moderately HP applications is what they are after. They need the pitch rotation to plant the tire and keep it there, so this style bar is very popular with some of those guys. They are not stiff enough to stop anything or give any control over what is going on but they will keep ya off the bumper in a moderately powered car, hopefully
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:12 PM

I'm still a bit confused with the "sprung" and "un-sprung" bars... It looks like the spring is supposed to soften the hit when the bars make contact... which makes sense.. but how hard will it hit if there is no spring and how do I know if I want a soft hit?

The amount of power my new motor makes is still unknown.. We stuck it on a chassis dyno and the numbers we got was not accurate at all.. The graph max'd out at 699RWHP at 6000.. and that was on a part throttle hit as we were trying to roll into the power band because the dyno could not support the torque..

Regardless, I believe the motor has enough power for either a moon shot.. or it will carry the front tires for quite a distance and this is what I'm trying to avoid.. or at least control..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:26 PM

One thing I do like about the spring type(in pic) is
that IF you want to lock the spring you can(make it
solid) with a few washers
EDIT
also with the nut near the wheel you can tighten the
spring to make it beefier(pressure) and get less
movement


Attached picture 7480146-DSC00001.JPG
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:33 PM

A backhalfed or stock suspension car that uses a lot of suspension travel usually can benifit from sprung wheelie bars as to not unload the back tires.A chassis car that has minimal suspension travel usually works better with solid bars and becomes a part of the chassis tune.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:34 PM

Don you want a solid bar..
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:41 PM

Keep in mind shock adjustment is critical for launch control also.if your pulling moonshots,try softening up the shocks.
Posted By: slippery440

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 06:54 PM

Quote:

This is the new set, with the corrct stagger. You can see by the chalk we get on them kinda hard. Sits them down just about 60'.




Thats just a great looking fast car!!!!
Posted By: poisondart2

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 07:44 PM

Quote:

I am still curious about the packing of the chute.I had planned on all Simpson products.It looks to me that ALL the chutes are a PITA.
Also is thier a science on the length of the bars? Or is it fit what fits



Look at the instructions for packing the two different chutes and you will see the difference, Simpson takes longer. But if you like Simpson get one I have one and just take it out and put it back in a few times and you will get it, like Al said you wont use it that much anyway
Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/28/12 09:19 PM

Don - FWIW - on the Demon I have 55" round bar sprung near the wheel.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/29/12 12:47 AM

But Demon dont need em He just likes to look cool
Posted By: Gary Robbins

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/29/12 02:22 AM

Here's my bars(jbrc c-moly)and stroud chute...Like others have said prolly wish i had gone with the launcher on the chute...

Attached picture 7480669-silverfish331.JPG
Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/29/12 06:58 PM

Quote:

But Demon dont need em He just likes to look cool



Oh really? You didn't think you needed them either until that fateful day at Infineon. I like the piece of mind and the hope that one day my car will run like it's supposed to.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/29/12 07:05 PM

Did not need them with the hemi turd that was in it..Remember when it was a slow 8.80 car way back when
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/30/12 04:56 AM

Hey Bill.. when is that bad beast gonna see the track again?
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/30/12 05:20 AM

Don't you worry about Bill! You'll have me to contend with at MaTS! Heading for Wyo to pick up the engine for the Duster

....but I'll need at least a 2.5 head start!
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/30/12 06:03 AM

Woohooo..Some freindly grudge racing...I get the winner
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/30/12 06:11 AM

when you see my 1/8 mile time come up on the board you can leave Al!
Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 11/30/12 04:51 PM

Quote:

Hey Bill.. when is that bad beast gonna see the track again?



No clue. There are some things on it that I want to get addressed before it rolls into a staging lane again. That's time and money and you know my situation - which hasn't improved any.
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Wheelie Bars and Parachutes... - 12/02/12 04:52 AM

What about the single wheel VS the double wheel?????
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