BES Apache flows!

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There is no doubt with those numbers, 390 CFM at .600 lift, that you could not make a very streetable combo run low 9's at 408 CID

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I am just questioning durability of said engine when it is raced weekly. Not 3-4 HEMI or Mopar shows a year. Can the last for 3 or 4 years like the "old school" stuff can without blowing the bottom out of them.

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there is a bunch of LS heads that claim to go over 400 so I'm not really to impressed by a piece of paper that says a hemi head flowing worse than a LS
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With factory castings?

LPE CNC L92 LS3 Flow Specs
Intake valve lift / Exhaust valve lift
.200 - 158 cfm / .200 - 116 cfm
.300 - 230 cfm / .300 - 161 cfm
.400 - 282 cfm / .400 - 201 cfm
.450 - 302 cfm / .450 - 213 cfm
.500 - 322 cfm / .500 - 220 cfm
.550 - 340 cfm / .550 - 226 cfm
.600 - 350 cfm / .600 - 231 cfm
.650 - 358 cfm / .650 - 234 cfm
.700 - 344 cfm / .700 - 237 cfm

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there is a bunch of LS heads that claim to go over 400 so I'm not really to impressed by a piece of paper that says a hemi head flowing worse than a LS
head

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With factory castings?

LPE CNC L92 LS3 Flow Specs
Intake valve lift / Exhaust valve lift
.200 - 158 cfm / .200 - 116 cfm
.300 - 230 cfm / .300 - 161 cfm
.400 - 282 cfm / .400 - 201 cfm
.450 - 302 cfm / .450 - 213 cfm
.500 - 322 cfm / .500 - 220 cfm
.550 - 340 cfm / .550 - 226 cfm
.600 - 350 cfm / .600 - 231 cfm
.650 - 358 cfm / .650 - 234 cfm
.700 - 344 cfm / .700 - 237 cfm

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Probably the one they were bolted to if I ever score a 392 out of a junkyard. There are plenty of things that disappoint me about Mopar halfassing certain things on their current engineering. Like the crank issue? That definitely blows, but who wouldn't build a stroker anyway? Why can't they build aluminum block Gen III hemis and put them in SRT cars from the factory? But Chevy does. Why did Chrysler cast crossbolted Hemi blocks all those years but couldn't cast crossbolted 440 blocks? Yeah us grassroots guys have been getting screwed since 1964!

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Just to touch up on some stuff.

There is a lot of guys starting to run 6.4 apache heads on 5.7 blocks I am not 100% but i think once you bore the 5.7 block you don't need to notch the cylinders.

On the Factory Alum block issue i would love a factory alum block "cheaper"

However even the Gm guys don't like running the factory alum LS block around 550-600hp mark they switch to the iron block becused it is stronger.

Last thing you got a 392 out a junkyard iam jealous

Keep posting you build please i love more info when you can

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I think you maybe right about the apache on a bored block. This is a stock block no gasket.

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Probably the one they were bolted to if I ever score a 392 out of a junkyard. There are plenty of things that disappoint me about Mopar halfassing certain things on their current engineering. Like the crank issue? That definitely blows, but who wouldn't build a stroker anyway? Why can't they build aluminum block Gen III hemis and put them in SRT cars from the factory? But Chevy does. Why did Chrysler cast crossbolted Hemi blocks all those years but couldn't cast crossbolted 440 blocks? Yeah us grassroots guys have been getting screwed since 1964!

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Just to touch up on some stuff.

There is a lot of guys starting to run 6.4 apache heads on 5.7 blocks I am not 100% but i think once you bore the 5.7 block you don't need to notch the cylinders.

On the Factory Alum block issue i would love a factory alum block "cheaper"

However even the Gm guys don't like running the factory alum LS block around 550-600hp mark they switch to the iron block becused it is stronger.

Last thing you got a 392 out a junkyard iam jealous

Keep posting you build please i love more info when you can

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They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.

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Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?

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PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places

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Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.

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Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.

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PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places

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Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.

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Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.

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The W9 head in the long run will cost way more then a LS head once you factory in all the exotic hardware to follow.

I was talking of the LSX block comapres to the new hemi

2500 is a lot cheaper then a 4000 Alum gen3 block

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Now imagine if Fiat comes out with a 6.2 that is as strong as a LSX.
Lets face it the 6.2 blown engine will be a limited production run.
So IMO kill two birds with one stone make more of thess blocks to offset the cost of the limited production run.
For let say around 2000 to 2300.
I would purchase one!

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PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places

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Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.

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Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.

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The W9 head in the long run will cost way more then a LS head once you factory in all the exotic hardware to follow.

I was talking of the LSX block comapres to the new hemi

2500 is a lot cheaper then a 4000 Alum gen3 block

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PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places

---

Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.

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Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.

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The W9 head in the long run will cost way more then a LS head once you factory in all the exotic hardware to follow.

I was talking of the LSX block comapres to the new hemi

2500 is a lot cheaper then a 4000 Alum gen3 block

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Exotic Hardware?? What exotic Hardware??

I got a Fully setup pair of W9-RPs and not 1 piece in them any more exotic than what you would need for a good set of LS heads. Only thing Exotic about them is the Heads themselves.

And that's comparing Apples to Oranges. Iron vs Aluminum??? of course the price would be higher Aluminum always is.

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Im betting with some billet main caps the 6.4 block would be plenty stout. I remember reading somewhere that it is its own casting and not a machined 6.1 block.

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That the 6.2 is a new block. Lets just hope the mass produce it.

Th bottom ends are very strong. BES had a 700hp 600 tq on a half filled stock bottom end 5.7 with stock bolts. Matt

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Im not that excited about the 6.2 block when the 6.4 block has the biggest bore of the 4. I thought I read that the production 6.4 is its own animal and not bored out 6.1 block, am I wrong? I know the production 392 crate engines were stroked 5.7s were they not?

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Im betting with some billet main caps the 6.4 block would be plenty stout. I remember reading somewhere that it is its own casting and not a machined 6.1 block.

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That the 6.2 is a new block. Lets just hope the mass produce it.

Th bottom ends are very strong. BES had a 700hp 600 tq on a half filled stock bottom end 5.7 with stock bolts. Matt

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Im not that excited about the 6.2 block when the 6.4 block has the biggest bore of the 4. I thought I read that the production 6.4 is its own animal and not bored out 6.1 block, am I wrong? I know the production 392 crate engines were stroked 5.7s were they not?

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Correct the crate 392's wear 5.7L stroked,

The 6.4 is a different block then the 6.1 the bore and the cam tunnel being complete different other differences i am not sure I don't think anyone is playing with the 6.4L block b/c laast time i check surprise they were not available for purchase yet

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Im betting with some billet main caps the 6.4 block would be plenty stout. I remember reading somewhere that it is its own casting and not a machined 6.1 block.

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That the 6.2 is a new block. Lets just hope the mass produce it.

Th bottom ends are very strong. BES had a 700hp 600 tq on a half filled stock bottom end 5.7 with stock bolts. Matt

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700hp on a stock 5.7 bottom end??? How high were they spinning it??? I really would love to run a stock bottom end 5.7 N/A into the high 10's, but from the very limited info I have been able to gather on it, didn't think it would handle it

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Im betting with some billet main caps the 6.4 block would be plenty stout. I remember reading somewhere that it is its own casting and not a machined 6.1 block.

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That the 6.2 is a new block. Lets just hope the mass produce it.

Th bottom ends are very strong. BES had a 700hp 600 tq on a half filled stock bottom end 5.7 with stock bolts. Matt

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700hp on a stock 5.7 bottom end??? How high were they spinning it??? I really would love to run a stock bottom end 5.7 N/A into the high 10's, but from the very limited info I have been able to gather on it, didn't think it would handle it

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Sorry stock caps and bolts!
4.25 stroke crank. 2010 Engine Master Champion.
From the mag 11.3 to1, Hydraulic roller, Turned to 6500 rpm. 700 HP at 6500 and 621 TQ at 5200.

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They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.

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Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?

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area under the curve.....give me a head that flows [Email]250@.300"[/Email] and 350cfm max at .600" over a head that flows [Email]200@.300"[/Email] and 400cfm max at .600"

the 6.4L block is kind of a love child of a late model 5.7 and a 6.1, as it has most of the features of the 6.1, plus the different cam tunnel and MDS features of the Eagle headed VVT 5.7

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Not many people understand that.

NONE of these hemi's can use what a ported 6.4 can flow peak. Why not have just enough flow to be effective?

Efficiency over peak all day, everyday.

I'll stop talking now.

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They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.

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Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?

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area under the curve.....give me a head that flows [Email]250@.300"[/Email] and 350cfm max at .600" over a head that flows [Email]200@.300"[/Email] and 400cfm max at .600"

the 6.4L block is kind of a love child of a late model 5.7 and a 6.1, as it has most of the features of the 6.1, plus the different cam tunnel and MDS features of the Eagle headed VVT 5.7

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Not many people understand that.

NONE of these hemi's can use what a ported 6.4 can flow peak. Why not have just enough flow to be effective?

Efficiency over peak all day, everyday.

I'll stop talking now.

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They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.

---

Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?

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area under the curve.....give me a head that flows [Email]250@.300"[/Email] and 350cfm max at .600" over a head that flows [Email]200@.300"[/Email] and 400cfm max at .600"

the 6.4L block is kind of a love child of a late model 5.7 and a 6.1, as it has most of the features of the 6.1, plus the different cam tunnel and MDS features of the Eagle headed VVT 5.7

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Not many people understand that.

NONE of these hemi's can use what a ported 6.4 can flow peak. Why not have just enough flow to be effective?

Efficiency over peak all day, everyday.

I'll stop talking now.

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But the apache might offer both peak power and without giving up efficiency,

There is a guy on the LX board Alcharger
is he handle there

He was running a pwr 5.7 short block "392" stroker
he went from a a set of ported eagle heads to a set of ported apache heads and his 1/4 times were quicker by a few tenths quicker.

Know on a stock stroke motor that might be a whole other story

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They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.

---

Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?

---

area under the curve.....give me a head that flows [Email]250@.300"[/Email] and 350cfm max at .600" over a head that flows [Email]200@.300"[/Email] and 400cfm max at .600"

the 6.4L block is kind of a love child of a late model 5.7 and a 6.1, as it has most of the features of the 6.1, plus the different cam tunnel and MDS features of the Eagle headed VVT 5.7

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Not many people understand that.

NONE of these hemi's can use what a ported 6.4 can flow peak. Why not have just enough flow to be effective?

Efficiency over peak all day, everyday.

I'll stop talking now.

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But the apache might offer both peak power and without giving up efficiency,

There is a guy on the LX board Alcharger
is he handle there

He was running a pwr 5.7 short block "392" stroker
he went from a a set of ported eagle heads to a set of ported apache heads and his 1/4 times were quicker by a few tenths quicker.

Know on a stock stroke motor that might be a whole other story

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I don't agree with the overall results. IMHO a Apache, ported or not is better suited to a 440 and above.

I've dealt with a racer in direct compeition to Alcharger. He ran less cylinder head (eagle) and was still faster over all and also less CI.

An effcient head is what we build for. Different styles work for different aplications.

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