64 SuperStock Dodge ?

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11teens several years ago

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here's the car

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Only thing STOCK about the NSS cars of today is some of the sheet metal. Nothing wrong with it, except it is a misrepresentation to the younger crowd in a lot of ways. Pre 65 cars were very fast if they ran mid / low 11's and of course, wheel stands, wheelie bars, parachutes, 10/12 point cages, 500 CU motors, 13" wide tires, etc, never happened. I really like the NSS cars of today. They are fun and exciting to watch. Just not a true representation of how it was.

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the car today, runs 10.30's thru the mufflers

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Just an FYI, they all didn't come from the factory with black air cleaner lids.

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Sorry, I recall that thread, while it was a very cool car I'll maintain that those and all other steel air cleaner equipped cars had lids that were black from the factory.

That car looks vintage race correct, but that picture is not solid proof of factory correctness, It's obvious that it already had a number of modifications, it's HIGHLY likely that the owner pulled them off, masked off the decals, and sprayed them red/orange.

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BTW, the pic was taken before I made any modifications what so ever to the car.

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I am not trying start a wizzing match with you but having seen countless original air cleaners from these cars over the years, all black, and not a single exception, I still doubt they were original. That said anything was POSSIBLE with Chrysler, just not likely in this case.

Maybe the dealer painted them, or maybe your memory has faded? IMO either is a possibility.

You said it yourself that you hadn't made a SINGLE modification to the car when that pic was taken? What about the fuel lines that show in the pics? Those aren't stock, or they are at least modified or insulated. The date of March 1964 on the photo edge is also evidence that the car had been around a year or more when that pic was taken, you didn't change a thing for the first year or more of ownership?

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Everything you see in the color engine pic - fuel lines ( I did wrap them with insulation tape), fuel filters, air cleaner lids, battery location, exhaust manifolds, were as it rolled off the showroom floor Scott. Only changes I made at that point in time was the gear and tires. Wish I could share some better pics with you, but ----. Car ran low 13's / high 12's as you see it with a T33 3spd. Converts were heavy. As you said, anything was possible from the factory back then, but my memory still serves me relatively well. It was a strange combination ( engine, body ) even for that time. I might add, it is the only Sport Fury body ( with all the trimmings)that I have ever seen that didn't come with front bumper "bumperettes". Again, thats how it came. After being fulley restored, it now has black air cleaner lids and bumperettes. Guy must have consulted you on the resto?

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After being fulley restored, it now has black air cleaner lids and bumperettes. Guy must have consulted you on the resto?

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No, I didn't help them in any way with the restoration, but I did spend many hours going over it in the ICCA judging booth at the Vegas Mopars At The Strip Show.

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Sadly, I was there in 09, but for Saturday only. Couldn't make it to the 2010 show. Raced there in 2011 ( of course the car wasn't there that year ) - so I haven't actually seen the car since I sold it to the second owner in 1968. Strange that the person(s) that did the restoration never tried to contact the original owner ( me), although they did contact the third owner because some of the pics that they presented at the 09 MATS show I sent to the third owner ( how I ran in to the 3rd owner is a story unto itself - totally by coincidence ). Probably a good thing that I wasn't consulted as they surely would have gotten dinged for orange air cleaner lids and no bumperettes. Wonder if they ever questioned how the damage occured to the inside of the right frame rail? I to your expertise on those early max cars Scott, but you are still wrong on those air cleaner lids.

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I to your expertise on those early max cars Scott, but you are still wrong on those air cleaner lids.

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John, one thing you have to remember about restoring these cars is the phrase “consistent with production standards.” Orange lids aren’t consistent with production standards and will cost points in judging.

Your car may have been delivered to you with orange lids but shipped to the dealer with black lids. Stuff happens along the way.

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10-4 on that.

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Can you post on here the pictures of your Uncle's Dodge?

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I would love to post the picture , but my knowledge of how to is limited on the computer. I have a hp officejet6110 all in one and have a satillite system. Hughsnet. I have tried before and failed to post a picture on this site before. Can anybody help me out? I just took a couple of the pictures of the pictures of the engine compartment and it is now in "My Documents". What's next?

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If you can send me the pic (s) I would be happy to post them for you.
On the air cleaner lids, lets all be nice please. It's no big deal and Scott is for sure the expert here. If I was going to show the car I would have done the resto in black also, regardless. As was said, it's been a loooong time since I owned that car - - AND I WANT IT BACK! BTW, I did find some 8 mm movies of that car that I took (some of the engine with orange lids). No date though and it was later in my ownership cause the car had fenderwell exit headers on it at that time.

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You say potatoe, I say.... lets work the whole thing out...



I've got the 1962 magazine with the orange covers on a 413 too.. So we know at least one set was out there.




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Can you post the pic?

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Even if he does post a pic from a magazine it's not going to prove they were ever built that way from the factory as regular production vehicles. Most magazine test cars were pilot cars, many of which had modifications and parts details (not all mods were made at the factory, but rather by the magazines or dealers that recieved them) that never made it into production.....

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Here’s a good example of a production engine with parts that never made it onto a production car. Going strictly by the picture, you’d think the manifolds were on every Stage III car built.

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With all this talk about what color the air cleaners were on a max wedge, I dug out the pictures of my uncles new 63 Dodge Max Wedge, and the border on the picture is dated JUN > 63, and that is when it was developed, not when it was taken. His air cleaners are chrome--intake is aluminum--battery in front. You can see how all the heater hoses , choke cable etc. etc. are ran. It's a cool picture that I have kept in the drawer for years.

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and here is that pic.

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I still can't believe this is still a topic.We have seen these in orange,black,chrome,non painted and even a set painted gold shipped from the factory on cars and to dealer parts rooms.As always with Chrysler you can expect anything on any given day,ie:Documented Hemi cars with no torque boxes and many other oddities.While working at a dealership in the 60s I ordered a dressup kit from Chrysler that comprised of chrome aircleaners,valvecover kit, and breathers"What say all the Gurus now"

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Upon request, I just posted the pic for him.

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Thank you,I'am no expert or Guru,but still am of sound mind and remember things I see and touch.For a long time I had a set of orange ones that came off of Jim Ross's 63 Ply Maxwedge"Rumcharger" from Washington Pa. and a set of gold ones that came on my 62 413MW in the attic,they were given to NOS Jim,he may still have them.The Aluminium front 63 Dodge(Southern Comfort) I owned was the one that I bought the chrome ones for when I worked at HaynesSmith Dodge in Marion Illinois back in my youth.

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Sorry guys, as I said before, those old pics are nostalgic and all but they don't prove a thing concerning them coming that way off the production line.

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So Scott,we must all take your word as the final fact and what I and many others who owned,raced and worked for Chrysler know from actual experience and knowledge are full of poo.I have kids your age,respect your elders.
Respectfully
Bob

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Agreed ---- and I guess all the nay sayers actually did work on the production line and know this as fact

Like it is always said --- never say never when it comes to what Mopar has done. Pretty hard to look at any car today to say that when it was built 50 years ago you can tell what is/was original or not


Russ

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At the end of the day, does any of this really matter? I mean, yea its interesting from a historical standpoint (and I'm all for preserving the history and building a car as correct as possible for a nostalgia class), but these were meant to be race cars-not museum pieces. I bet if you were to go up to someone who was there and ran these cars back in the day (and I know several) and whined that their air cleaners are the wrong color, they would point and laugh at you...if you were lucky. Bob, you've probably forgotten more than most of the people here know. I would hope that people respect that. Now, since this is a RACE forum, let's stop worrying about what a car show judge will deduct points for and get back to racing.

Rant off (this is why I don't go to car shows anymore).

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They were race cars. I raced the crap out of mine. Many are now museum pieces ( including mine), but I agree, this thread needs to - away.

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Well this has been an interesting thread and it has almost been like a Sienfeld show about nothing really.One last thing though, just seen this picture on ebay and it is of Tom Hoover and 3 friends and they are proudly displaying a complete Max Wedge, air cleaners and all. Ebay Item number 370601894857

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Bob, respectfully.....No, you have me all wrong. Don't assume that I feel that I am uttering any sort of gospel when it's the furthest thing from the truth just because I choose to "put my head out of the rabbit hole" and debate a claim of originallity. What I'm trying to get accross (apparently which little success) is when someone, anyone comes to the table with an example of a detail that deviates from what was the production line "norm" that they should understand that it will be viewed with skepticism without producing rock solid evidence to back it up before it will be accepted as an actual production line variable or possibility. I am not, and would never say #1. That someone is a liar. #2. That it was impossible. #3. That it never happened. All I am asking for is some backup to prove the claims. Photos of cars back in the day, even if taken the day of delivery, do not provide that proof, especially with something so easy to change or modify.

Bottom line? MAYBE there were some Orange/Red/Chrome air cleaners put on at the factory, in fact if it happened that would be cool! But so far nobody here has posted enough evidence to make it indesputable.

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Ok,Scott,I admit I'am a liar,BSer and senile and your on a crusade to set the world right.I think you have been in your rabbit hole to long and have put that carrot in the wrong hole also.Your disatertion or diatrob only proves you can't admit your wrong and only further goes to show who you really are.Watch out for Almer Fudd,he may pop your head off the next time you it out of your "rabbit hole"you silly rabbit.
PS: I don't have you "all wrong" you prove to everyone who you really are".Buy the way my brother Tony said to tell you happy Thanksgiving and that he's having rabbit and carrots this year instead of turkey and taters.

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Since this thread won't die, might as well throw another coal on the fire. http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/jcailey/media/MOV02234.mp4.html

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Since this thread won't die, might as well throw another coal on the fire. http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/jcailey/media/MOV02234.mp4.html

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Your disatertion or diatrob only proves you can't admit your wrong and only further goes to show who you really are.

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I'll HAPPILY admit I'm wrong as soon as you prove it, so far you haven't.

Cool video, those fat rear tires and fenderwell headers factory as well?


BG, quit fantasizing about my anal cavity you freaking perv!

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Scott,I'am not fantasizing about your "carrot infested butt".The only fantisizing going on is in that little head of yours.I don't have prove anything to you,just let everyone know the real facts that me and many others already know since we lived the mopar life then and now and give you a forum to show your distinguished characterization of "life according to Scott Smith".You should pen a novel and we can find it at the book stores under ficton.

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I'll HAPPILY admit I'm wrong as soon as you prove it, so far you haven't.

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Scott
Using your guidelines, it is not possible to prove beyond any doubt, that factory production line air cleaners were available in any color, including black from the factory. Unless you have something in writing from Chrysler, from back in 62 or 63 staing air cleaners will only be available in black and even then, anything you produce, someone else can take your stance and use your same argument and say not a real copy or it has been altered.
I worked for and raced Dodges back in 60's and 70's. Nothing was ever cast in stone during production. If they ran out of the required part, and they had something else that fit so they could complete the order and not old up the assembly line, it was put on the car.
HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT TURKEY DAY.

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Many or most all of us that have lengthy experience with Chrysler know that on any given order on any given day you could expect a surprise from Chrysler.I prepped new cars at the dealership in the early 60s and seen many oddities such as wrong trim,unsilanced air clearners,daul exhaust and small hubcaps on luxury models,the list go on.We even had a 383/4speed station wagon with maxwedge exhaust manifolds and the dump tube exhaust.

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Scott
Using your guidelines, it is not possible to prove beyond any doubt, that factory production line air cleaners were available in any color, including black from the factory. Unless you have something in writing from Chrysler, from back in 62 or 63 staing air cleaners will only be available in black and even then, anything you produce, someone else can take your stance and use your same argument and say not a real copy or it has been altered.
I worked for and raced Dodges back in 60's and 70's. Nothing was ever cast in stone during production. If they ran out of the required part, and they had something else that fit so they could complete the order and not old up the assembly line, it was put on the car.
HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT TURKEY DAY.

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It's not "my" guidelines we are talking about. I'm the first one to admit that odd things COULD and did happen at the factory, but before calling any of those oddities fact, I look at the provable facts to back them up. Sometimes proving them fact never happens because of lack of evidence, and sometimes another example or two surfaces at a later time that matches and validates them, that's just the way it is.

When something was optional at the factory it was put in writing and offered to the customer. Does anyone have such documentation? If so it hasn't been posted here. Black air cleaner paint was standard, not optional, therefore as with most other production detail items you won't usually see it mentioned or listed in any kind of factory documention.

Does anyone have a single example of an original air cleaner that still wears it's factory paint job and decals in any other color but black? I have some black ones, what have you guys got to show? No, finding some OEM paint orange ones still wouldn't be solid proof that they were put on a car in production (vs over the counter, etc.) because you still couldn't determine for certain that it rolled off the line that way, but that would be a much more solid start than just a single example based on old pictures of a modified car taken months or years after being delivered.

I agree, Happy T-Day to all

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Give it a break Scott,you brought a knife to a gunfight.No one gives a rats or rabbits behind that they need to prove anything to you,What proof do you have that what you say is correct.By continueing to babble is just destroying you reputation and creditability.Haven't you embarrassed your self enough already.I enjoy sparring with you,but it's to the point that I feel your a hopeless case.Why don't you give us all the proof,facts and backup data to prove any or all of your statements,I await your responce.All we have from you to at this point is a bunch of doubble talk.Have you no self respect?
And on a serious note to you and everyone,this isn't funny or enjoyable any more,it's like kicking a crutch from under a cripples arm or the day you have put down "old Shep" to end his misery.

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Yesterday I was looking at the new Mopar Muscle as I grabbed it off the mag stand and read it while sitting at the Pharmacy waiting for my oxycodone refill.

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What I'd like to know (op) is what does your oxycodone refill have anything to do w/the subject 64 SuperStock Dodge?

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