Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please

Posted By: max_maniac

Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 05:45 PM

Have an issue getting my car started when hot lapping and this starts even on the 2nd run. Once the car gets hot it seems to drag the battery down or is it the starter?

Set up on 63 Dodge - Brand new Red Top, MSD 6AL, Mopar mini starter from a Dakota, Summit elec water pump, Be Cool fan on rad, Aeromotive 2000 fuel pump and a tach.

So where to start looking first

when it comes to electrical I'm lost. First instinct is to get a better starter then the stock Mopar mini...

Thanks for any opinions and/or advice.

Russ

Posted By: vttm

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 05:51 PM

Is your timing locked out?

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 05:54 PM

I'm thinking its a lack of battery power, not a starter or engine issue.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 06:05 PM

Check all your grounds

Posted By: ro23car

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 06:26 PM

i have my timing set at 25 deg on start up.

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 07:17 PM

It's the starter - it's a wee bit cranky like the old & retired owner

Posted By: JAKE68

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 08:36 PM

How big of wire do you have for ground???If too small it will crank slow hot.

Posted By: rickraw

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 08:37 PM

are u using an alternator? it wasn't mentioned. if u are, check the output terminal at the alt, should be atleast 14-14.5.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 08:50 PM

You can check to see if you have a wiring issue first as its the easiest issue to eliminate....

On mine, I check all the large wire connections for resistance with an Ohm meter...Especially, the on off switch. Found those go bad and create lots of resistance over time or voltage drop, and crimp connections for big wires are no good over time either. Mine are all soldered...

That's where I would start...

Posted By: AAR-B4

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:03 PM

Starter.
There are heat shields available (mostly for Chevy) but that's a band aid.
Replace it.

Posted By: radar

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:12 PM

Put a heat blanket on the starter, esp. if its close to the headers. a sheetmetal shield is even better if there's room. My oem starter was acting up then eventually would just stay on. There was a week where I would start it, jump out, pull the negative battery cable to stop the starter spinning, and real quick hook it back up before the motor died.

When I went to a mini it would heat soak and start very slowly if I drove then parked and let the heat soak in. Later I had jacked my timing up to 22 initial with a new (hot rod) motor and put the battery in the trunk. I had to run a thick ground all the way to the starter mounting lug to get good cold starts. Hot starts with all the initial timing work WAY better with a separate button to crank the starter, then turn the key on once it spins good.

That's what worked for me!

Good luck

radar

Posted By: 440lebaron

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:24 PM

hello,
most hot start problems are engine timing, try turning off ignition or pull coil wire when cranking, see if it makes a differance
gary

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:38 PM

Since the battery is new, you can eliminate it. That leaves the wiring, connections, and starter. After visually checking the wiring and connections for corrosion, loosness, etc, you will need to do a voltage drop test on the starting system wiring. Over all starting system should have less than .6 voltage drop with .1 or less for each connection. With the ignition system disconnected, you will need to crank the engine about 5 seconds for each connection you are testing to let the reading line out. If your system passes the voltage drop tests, you starter is the problem. It just don't have enough balls to start the motor hot - especially when it is also hot. You can do some things to help it - as mentioned, but the problem is still the starter.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:44 PM

Just an FYI,
I went to the parts store 3 times to get a good Optima red top. First two were very weak. Third one was my last try at using one,then it worked great for years. I would start by getting the battery and starter tested.
Keith

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:49 PM

Its hard to beat a good 16 volt battery.

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 09:57 PM

Quote:

Just an FYI,
I went to the parts store 3 times to get a good Optima red top. First two were very weak. Third one was my last try at using one,then it worked great for years. I would start by getting the battery and starter tested.
Keith

Well, there is always an exception to the rule, and most people don't have a load tester in their garage, but most have a volt meter. Your starter might load test just fine ( no heat ) for what it is, but it just doesn't have enough nuts to crank your motor - hot. You said it came out of a Dakota? Assume it is used and was cranking much less of a motor than you are presently using it on??.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 10:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just an FYI,
I went to the parts store 3 times to get a good Optima red top. First two were very weak. Third one was my last try at using one,then it worked great for years. I would start by getting the battery and starter tested.
Keith

Well, there is always an exception to the rule, and most people don't have a load tester in their garage, but most have a volt meter. Your starter might load test just fine ( no heat ) for what it is, but it just doesn't have enough nuts to crank your motor - hot. You said it came out of a Dakota? Assume it is used and was cranking much less of a motor than you are presently using it on??.

I agree! Most of the parts stores will test them for free

Posted By: fasteddie

Re: Hard starting when hot lapping --- opinions please - 09/17/12 10:54 PM

We tried everything, wrapped the starter, new starter, load tests, amp draws, everything!

This guy fixed it

http://www.madelectrical.com/

Call him and get the kit. Makes it real easy.

The Dart now cranks hard and fast, hot or cold.