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Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 01:08 AM
I did a search & came up with nothing. Search never works for me for some reason. I get 300 of everything else. Anyway, I know there are a few Gentlemen on here running Hemi 99 engines. What are the pro's & con's switching to this combo other than expense. I have turbo's, I have several fogger NOS kits & plate kits but am really still leaning towards staying "all motor". I have 6 buddies that all run Drag Radial nitrous combos. I was going to run this class also but we all just continue to just take each other out.
Really thinking about putting a 28x10.5 slick on & trying to get a Mopar in all Motor to run up against all of the Mustangs & Chevies.
What to look out for & what to avoid when going to this combo? Thinking this would be a better alternative than a B1/Indy/Predator headed RB combo.
Posted By: go green
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 04:10 AM
Sounds like you don't know whether you are coming or going . You have answered your own question perfectly .
Anyone debating these entry level questions has no business building either one of these combinations in the first place .
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 05:12 AM
If you're ready to dive into the pool, I'm sure Al would be more than happy to sell you his.... Should be making some qualifing passes in Vegas about right now at the PSCA race.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 06:40 AM
Quote:
Sounds like you don't know whether you are coming or going . You have answered your own question perfectly .
Anyone debating these entry level questions has no business building either one of these combinations in the first place .
I think this was a little harsh, everyone has to start some where.
Posted By: Oyvind Mopar
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 09:00 AM
This engine is heavy. And powerful. I think you need bigger slicks....My
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 09:42 AM
Quote:
If you're ready to dive into the pool, I'm sure Al would be more than happy to sell you his.... Should be making some qualifing passes in Vegas about right now at the PSCA race.
Al's deal is running with the best of them on the small tire from 330' on. 
Just can't 60'-330' with them so far. His Barracuda is heavy and killing power till 330' mark.
It runs the same MPH as his competitors, but still hasn't found the combo early on the track. 
Also, that 99 Hemi is not on kill.. There is more hp to get if he wants to.. 
Example: He just ran 8.57 @ 159.98 with a 1.31 60' time in Vegas.. DA was just over 5000' 
Chris.. 
Posted By: QuickDart 502
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 02:30 PM
Quote:
Sounds like you don't know whether you are coming or going . You have answered your own question perfectly .
Anyone debating these entry level questions has no business building either one of these combinations in the first place .
WOW Really! Thats the info the guy was really looking for.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 02:57 PM
Here my two cents, and I will qualify that with never having played with engines at that level, but from an outsiders perspective of those power plants...
The Hemi 99 as awesome as it is has a number of variations in design, if the parts chosen end up being the earlier version, problems with reliability abound. So unless you have someone that can guide you and review parts before purchasing, I would avoid this combo.
The Predator combo is probably a better platform to start off with, less variation in design, and proven on the street as well as at the track. The issue you will still have is, a 10x28 slick is going to be an issue in getting the car off the pad. You need to have a plan for getting four digit horse power to the ground on a small tire..and a chassis that is tried and true with adjustability. Your going to have to adjust your power output for track conditions and have a serious set of kajones to hang on..
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 03:22 PM
Quote:
Sounds like you don't know whether you are coming or going . You have answered your own question perfectly .
Anyone debating these entry level questions has no business building either one of these combinations in the first place .
Opinions vary. Yes, you have a twin turbo car that is making some serious steam. I also have the same & could go twin turbo if I decide to go this route also. I have always been an all motor guy even though I have had & help tune several nitrous cars. Just looking at other options. Oh wait, I could go Procharger also to confuse you even more. Either way I go does not mean I do not know what I am doing. Now back to the Hemi 99 discussion.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 03:31 PM
Thanks for the replys thus far. Kind of just thinking out load as of right now. 10.5" tire & Drag Radial racing is where it is. Alot of guys making some serious power & still getting them down the track. Yes, it takes hundreds of passes to get them dialed in but anyone can go fast with power adders & big tires. Just leaning towards staying all motor now. Plus we still do alot of Grudge racing around here. We can get alot more grudge match races with an all motor car than you will with a power adder car.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 03:38 PM
Grudge racing might be all the rage, but bracket racers pay the bills at most tracks. We run our crap every week. But getting back to your point, how do you hook 1450hp on a 10" slick with all motor? Only two things I casn think of is limiting it with efi or throttle stop on a timer or programmable ignition...
http://www.racingjunk.com/Drag-Racing/2680847/Pro-Stock-Hemi.htmlhttp://www.racingjunk.com/Drag-Racing/2171537/500-CI-NHRA-Pro-Stock-Hemi.html
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 03:50 PM
Thank Dragula. I saw both those deals as well. If I had the money right now I would buy something like that ready to go. It can be put to the ground. Several buddies are dong it. Numerous cars around here knocking on the 7 second door in the All Motor classes with a $1000.00 bonus to the first one who does it. That is why I am thinking a Hemi 99 would be the perfect combo for this type of racing. The Hemi 99 does not make a ton of torque (when compared to the H.P. it makes) Helping it get out of the hole. It is making all of its steam upstairs in the high RPM range like a small block on roids.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/09/12 05:11 PM
So if you don't have $25k to spend on just the engine to go grudge racing, when it cost about half of that just to freshen one up, not to mention all the parts you will tear up sorting it out, what are we doing discussing it? They don't get any cheaper than that...And a brand new Predator motor will cost more than that...Your not going grudge racing on a $10k motor that is for sure. Cheapest rout is a centrifugal on a decent Mopar long block
7secCuda runs one, there's a vid in his sig, you should see how hard that car comes out on the launch. I think he uses a 7" converter...
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 12:25 AM
I will keep it very simple for now. They make power in a VERY narrow band. They need to stay in that band to really get after it. The issue will be getting it there from the hit. Dont ask me how I know. They are not for the faint of heart of going to be easy on the wallet. They make power in an RPM range that comes with spending money plain and simple. Someday we will get ours figured out on the short times. IMO they really are bets suited for a big tire car with extrea gears, but sure is fun trying to figute it out. We have won one race this year and went out in the semis today.....Someday we will be good.....
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 12:42 AM
Oh yeah if you really want one or some info PM me
Posted By: Leon441
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 01:05 AM
Save yourself some headache and run a 5spd clutch combo or a Bruno Liberty 4spd. This will get you in the power range to make the car go. Can't tune clutches, torque converters, and suspension to work with 500 lbs of torque when you are out of the RPM range to 800lbs of torque when you are in.
I saw similar issues with my screamer small block with the powerglide.
Leon
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 01:54 PM
Quote:
So if you don't have $25k to spend on just the engine to go grudge racing, when it cost about half of that just to freshen one up, not to mention all the parts you will tear up sorting it out, what are we doing discussing it? They don't get any cheaper than that...And a brand new Predator motor will cost more than that...Your not going grudge racing on a $10k motor that is for sure. Cheapest rout is a centrifugal on a decent Mopar long block
7secCuda runs one, there's a vid in his sig, you should see how hard that car comes out on the launch. I think he uses a 7" converter...
This is a message board , correct? That is what these boards are for. Discssing things. Just asking some questions & would like to learn alittle more about the HEMI 99's. I already know the cost factor. I did not say any where that I was looking to buy one today.... Maybe in the near future though.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 01:56 PM
Quote:
I will keep it very simple for now. They make power in a VERY narrow band. They need to stay in that band to really get after it. The issue will be getting it there from the hit. Dont ask me how I know. They are not for the faint of heart of going to be easy on the wallet. They make power in an RPM range that comes with spending money plain and simple. Someday we will get ours figured out on the short times. IMO they really are bets suited for a big tire car with extrea gears, but sure is fun trying to figute it out. We have won one race this year and went out in the semis today.....Someday we will be good.....
Thanks Al. This is the kind of details I was looking for. Just some experience & knowledge from the guys who are running them.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 01:56 PM
Quote:
Oh yeah if you really want one or some info PM me
Sent you a PM Al. Fill me in on some of the details.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 02:02 PM
Quote:
Save yourself some headache and run a 5spd clutch combo or a Bruno Liberty 4spd. This will get you in the power range to make the car go. Can't tune clutches, torque converters, and suspension to work with 500 lbs of torque when you are out of the RPM range to 800lbs of torque when you are in.
I saw similar issues with my screamer small block with the powerglide.
Leon
Thanks Leon. I appreciate the input. I actually do know someone that has a complete G Force 5 spd set up & a couple other spare transmissions & clutch set ups that I have been working on trying to get for a while now. Thinking if I can work this deal out on the 5 speed set ups it will be a great combo for no matter what engine combo I decide to go with.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 05:07 PM
Well if you go this way and IF you can run a 5 speed it would be the way to go for sure. These are pretty much purpose built deals and would love the tight RPM spread of a 5 spd.
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 06:03 PM
putting the power to the ground isn't the issue, its called riding the dots. The question/problem is the amount of time lost before you can pour on the power. Thats why power adder cars are so popular for those classes. come out a little soft and just pour the power on once the tire gets some rotational speed. Ive done alot of work with Ben Mens all motor car that he has run in x275 but the lil SBF is still under 1000hp and a little better suspension platform. Its still sketchy at best with the small tires
Posted By: FASTFISH420
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 06:39 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I will keep it very simple for now. They make power in a VERY narrow band. They need to stay in that band to really get after it. The issue will be getting it there from the hit. Dont ask me how I know. They are not for the faint of heart of going to be easy on the wallet. They make power in an RPM range that comes with spending money plain and simple. Someday we will get ours figured out on the short times. IMO they really are bets suited for a big tire car with extrea gears, but sure is fun trying to figute it out. We have won one race this year and went out in the semis today.....Someday we will be good.....
Thanks Al. This is the kind of details I was looking for. Just some experience & knowledge from the guys who are running them.
I have a small block that would be perfect for you to run with those all/motor boys just get the weight down and throw a proflite in it
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 07:55 PM
Well riding the dots as you say does not work well in an NA deal. With a power adder car it is definitely the way to go. Naturally aspirated cars are all about 60' and riding the dots usually don't ad up to quick 60's. If we don't 60' we don't run to well. Lots of factors involved in getting an NA deal to run hard for sure but they just flat don't respond very well to having their teeth knocked out like a power adder car does.
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 09:28 PM
im not necessarily saying to ride the dots. with new digital boxes (pretty sure any digital 7 box) there are so many ways to pull a little power and put it back in to get the car to leave consistent, that you don't loose much if any. before when we were chasing the suspension we were pulling like 12 degrees for 1 second still 60' in the 1.18-1.20 range and runnin high 8.20's low 8.30's
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/10/12 11:26 PM
I agree big difference between riding the dots and pulling timing at the hit. We pull a lot of timing now and are still working on the entire set up. Just saying they do not reco er like a power adder car is all and riding the dots is not something that I know of anyone in the NA classes doing. But we all kill timing from the hit, IF you have decent power.
Then again as the ford guys love to point out I am sure we are doing it all wrong. Been 8.38 at 4400' so far. Went .50's this last weekend in 6000' and we are still working on the suspension a nd pulling timing. Best we can muster is a low 1.30 60's so far. Then again I weigh a bunch more than the small block Mustang crowd. Just saying...
Posted By: racerbychoice
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 12:23 AM
Quote:
Then again I weigh a bunch more than the small block Mustang crowd. Just saying...
....and you should cause you have a lot more motor, right? or at least a motor with more potential. rules.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 02:55 AM
Sure do....Not complaining just stating a fact. Should I be 600-800lbs heavier as required is the question. That extra weight is the biggest issue trying to make this deal work. Although as far as cubic inches I am just a tad bigger and when it comes to allowable suspensions I am WAY behind there by those same rules. Of course then there is the NMCA NA stuff and ALL those races have been won by a SB Ford combo...Still think they dont have some sort of an advantage or are the rest of us just not as smart as they are?? Since that is the party line being spewed by the SB Ford guys. People must keep going that way for a reason is my guess. Maybe I should go with a SB ford as well
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:05 AM
i never meant for you to feel like you had to defend yourself. sorry if i gave you that feeling. I thought we were having an intelligent conversation that is directly linked to what the OP will need to do if going this route. I guess sharing information is a bad thing. my bad
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:13 AM
No worries here. Just trying to make the comparison that riding the dots NA is not the same as with a power adder. You made the point as well in your post just wanted to reiderate the point. We are new to this stuff ourselves and still trying things for sure. This past weekend we came out with an entirely new set up with the rear suspension and were happy with they way it responded. With more laps and pars hopefully it will show big improvement. Just sucks we can MPH with the best but are still struggling with 60' and thus ET.
As for the SB Ferd comments on my part just a sore spot with myself and a LOT Of other racers in the NA ranks. Along with the fact that some of those combos are not a scrutinized as they could be as far as valve angles and cubes etc.
Rumor has it that at The Street Car Supernationals this year they may be getting pumped to see just how big some of them are
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:32 AM
I just help them guys when/were i can, we have been good friends for along time so it is what it is. I have no brand loyalty i like building stuff that helps get it to the front. for a single carb sbf under 500cubes on a 29.5x10.5 and 28.5x 10.5 non w tires its getting it done
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:36 AM
I agree they are getting it done very well. We run the same tire as well just a lot more weight. I wish I had bought Chris's small block and we could run the car at less weight. IMO that is the BIGGEST issue we face. Just like Comp weight is the key. We know we are bringing a spork to a gun fight be we will keep swinging as long as we have a place to swing it.
Enough of my pi$$ing and moaning
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:44 AM
al, i know these two cars are at completely different ends of the spectrum. if there is anything i could ever do to help let me know.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 03:48 AM
I'll buy the plane ticket and supply the food we need all the help we can get
We did out qualify them at SCSN 7 but they had some issues. But hey it's something.
FWIW if here is a video from this passed weekend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBijNaRwePE&feature=youtu.be
Posted By: Adrielp
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 04:42 AM
Quote:
I agree they are getting it done very well. We run the same tire as well just a lot more weight. I wish I had bought Chris's small block and we could run the car at less weight. IMO that is the BIGGEST issue we face. Just like Comp weight is the key. We know we are bringing a spork to a gun fight be we will keep swinging as long as we have a place to swing it.
Enough of my pi$$ing and moaning
Hey Al, I by no means have your knowledge but what is it about the added weight that hurting you guys. Is it a torque issue with such a high revving engine or more of weight distribution issue. Also, whats the current weight of the car and is this a 500ci engine? What there been any weight break is you destroked the engine?
Posted By: FASTFISH420
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 02:49 PM
Quote:
I agree they are getting it done very well. We run the same tire as well just a lot more weight. I wish I had bought Chris's small block and we could run the car at less weight. IMO that is the BIGGEST issue we face. Just like Comp weight is the key. We know we are bringing a spork to a gun fight be we will keep swinging as long as we have a place to swing it.
Enough of my pi$$ing and moaning
It's still available Al 
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 04:07 PM
I am sure it is just our inability to get it figurd out. Very limited track time for sure with this car so we try to learn something each time we go out and race.
Chris if there was any certainty at all as to whether we were still going to have a class next year...Then again if we dont and I sell this I will be in the market for something. Wonder if your engine will fit in any Super Stock combintaion
Posted By: mafo
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 04:44 PM
ss/am...
Posted By: FASTFISH420
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 06:08 PM
Quote:
I am sure it is just our inability to get it figurd out. Very limited track time for sure with this car so we try to learn something each time we go out and race.
Chris if there was any certainty at all as to whether we were still going to have a class next year...Then again if we dont and I sell this I will be in the market for something. Wonder if your engine will fit in any Super Stock combintaion
Pretty sure it would.you could throw and sheetmetal manifold and 2 fours on it also.Tim Davis used to run Supr Stock with his from time to time when indy came around.He was record holder for awhile.
Posted By: Adrielp
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 07:18 PM
Quote:
I am sure it is just our inability to get it figurd out. Very limited track time for sure with this car so we try to learn something each time we go out and race.
Chris if there was any certainty at all as to whether we were still going to have a class next year...Then again if we dont and I sell this I will be in the market for something. Wonder if your engine will fit in any Super Stock combintaion
As long as the block and heads have mopar part numbers, you will be legal for all of the upper modified and modified stock classes.
I remember when George Bryce was building his cuda with a 426 Hemi99 for A/SM and SS/AM competition, it would have been a very nasty combo in either of those classes. Even in the 68 Cuda, it would have been very fast. I just hate that he's letting it sit at his shop or at least thats the last I heard of it.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/11/12 08:26 PM
No dry sumps allowed in SS. You can do it in Comp..Well a single stage external is it. No place I am aware of for the 99 but maybe we ovelooked something. So that will make it really tough with a 99.
As for Chris' motor I believe due to its size it woudl be an SS/AS, which might work or SS/AM deal and that is some stout territory. With the cubes might be really heavy too. I believe Leopold has the record in AS with a W8 Stratus, AM is a Sebring with a P5 if I recall at. Anyway I think that would be a decent fit for us. Should be able to qualify but dont have an engine. We will likely sell and do something more mundane like a 383 combo in a traditonal SS class.
Posted By: Adrielp
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/12/12 02:12 AM
Quote:
No dry sumps allowed in SS. You can do it in Comp..Well a single stage external is it. No place I am aware of for the 99 but maybe we ovelooked something. So that will make it really tough with a 99.
As for Chris' motor I believe due to its size it woudl be an SS/AS, which might work or SS/AM deal and that is some stout territory. With the cubes might be really heavy too. I believe Leopold has the record in AS with a W8 Stratus, AM is a Sebring with a P5 if I recall at. Anyway I think that would be a decent fit for us. Should be able to qualify but dont have an engine. We will likely sell and do something more mundane like a 383 combo in a traditonal SS class.
Wes Leopold actually has a P5 combo in his new Stratus and set the record with the P5 engine combo in his Dodge Daytona. He now owns Douglas Stewarts/Bill Morse ex car which is a 03' or 05' Dodge Stratus.
Scott Gove has the SS/AM record with his 5 speed W8 powered Dodge Daytona but since he hasn't been racing very often, he is no longer the quickest SS/AM car in the country as John Clegg has dipped into the 7's a few times this year. He has a late 80's Firebird powered by a David Nickens built 455ci Pontiac.
In order to run the Hemi 99, you would most definitely have to use a remote pump with some inventive plumbing to make it work. I've seen quite a few Comp cars convert dry sump only motors to use a single stage external pump.
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Pro Stock Hemi 99 Discussion - 09/12/12 05:53 AM
Guess maybe I had it backward then. I saw the Stratus very nice car, just did not see it with the hood up
The 99 could possibly be used but the cost involoved to figure out an oil system and destroke it so it does not have to weigh two tons are not worth the effort. Even as a Comp deal it would either need to be destroked or put back into it's true Pro Stock form.