Moparts
What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck
Posted By: jafr
What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 02:50 AM
Last night my Indy SR heads droped a valve seat which broke the valve and piston. I am now in the market for a new set of heads among other parts. My SRs worked very well after Nick at Comp U Flow ported them but I think it is time to move on and try a new head.
I am looking at Indy 440-1s B-1 BS or Edelbrock Victors.These heads will be on a 499 low deck motor in a tube chassis 69 Dart. With the SR heads I was running low 5.70s in the 1/8th mile.
All suggestions and opinions appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 02:52 AM
Are you getting rid of them because of the dropped seat or wanting more power?
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 04:27 AM
Quote:
Last night my Indy SR heads droped a valve seat which broke the valve and piston. I am now in the market for a new set of heads among other parts. My SRs worked very well after Nick at Comp U Flow ported them but I think it is time to move on and try a new head.
I am looking at Indy 440-1s B-1 BS or Edelbrock Victors.These heads will be on a 499 low deck motor in a tube chassis 69 Dart. With the SR heads I was running low 5.70s in the 1/8th mile.
All suggestions and opinions appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
I've built and dyno tested motors with SR with M.W. ports, they flowed 340 CFM at .700 lift on a Super Flow 600 bench at 28 inches, I had a set of B1-BS CNC ported by Modern Cylinder heads to M.W. ports, they flowed 350 at .700,.800 and .900 on the same bench by the same tech, I had Modern cylinder heads CNC a set of 440-1 and had them change the intake valves to 2.250, they flowed 370 CFM at .600,.700 and all the way up to 1.0 on the same bench,(several years apart)by the same tech 
My message is the 440-1 CNC ported will flow a lot more air than the same size SR ported heads will with the smaller valves 
Call around and see if any of the shops have a set of 440-1 ported, ready to assemble or done and ready to ship 
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 05:06 AM
Quote:
Last night my Indy SR heads droped a valve seat which broke the valve and piston. I am now in the market for a new set of heads among other parts. My SRs worked very well after Nick at Comp U Flow ported them but I think it is time to move on and try a new head.
I am looking at Indy 440-1s B-1 BS or Edelbrock Victors.These heads will be on a 499 low deck motor in a tube chassis 69 Dart. With the SR heads I was running low 5.70s in the 1/8th mile.
All suggestions and opinions appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
I would go with the -1's. Last set I ported we used a 2.25 intake valve and they flowed around 370's @ .700 and 390 @ .900.
The victors are a great head when ported but I have not had the oppurtunity to push that casting much so not sure it would be alot better but maybe?
Brian
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 12:01 PM
Thanks for the replies so far. It is looking like the -1s have more potential for increased flow. But what about on the engine real world power? What I mean is I don't want to turn the motor 7500 to make power. I know you guys both have built plenty of motors that's why I'm asking.
Thumper Dart, I was very happy with the SR heads but the head that got beat up would probably cost more to fix than what it is worth and they are pretty maxed out as far as porting goes.
Thanks again, Joe
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 12:40 PM
With 499 cubes you can make roughly 850 hp with fully ported 440-1 heads. That is about the upper limit on a good budget. There is more available hp wise but the cost goes up fast when you start looking into the parts needed.
The rpm will go up some as well. For that power you will most likely need to shift at 7300 or there abouts. You could keep the revs down if you really want to stay at 7,000 or below but it will cost some of the power. The 440-1 heads will make great power from about 5000 up. I ran 9.30s at 2000 DA with 2980 weight, 499, unported 440-1 heads and alky as an example of what they can do if you shift at 6800.
For valvetrain take a good look at T & D stuff in as high a rocker ratio as they will make (1.7?). I have had a lot of greaf with Jesel stuff.
You can move up to a B1 head at this point if you have the budget for pistons and other items required, and those heads should allow for another 50 to 75 hp over the 440-1, maybe more. If you chose to go B1, I strongly suggest getting a good center weighted crank to keep the block alive. I am going to post results of my switch to a center weighted crank after I post this.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 04:10 PM
MW ports on a 500 inch short block will give you a torque peak in the 5000 to 5500 rpm. Peak power is usually around 7000 rpm.
I don't think you'll see much difference between the SR heads and the -1 heads if they are both ported the same.
If you need new rocker arms I'd suggest getting the -1 heads machined for Jesel rocker arms right out of the box. The Jesel setup cost more up front, but it sure is nice to work with over time.
Dwayne is always a good guy to talk to on builds like this. He can set you up with the heads that you need and give you some cam suggestions at the same time.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 04:25 PM
My 526 C.I. 440 stroker motor made 775 HP at 6500 RPM and the same at 7000 RPM with the SR heads I mentioned, they have a set of 1.65 T&D single shaft rockers. The same motor with the CNC ported set of 440-1 withh Harland Sharp 1.65 rocker made 845 HP at 7000 RPM with no other changes and the 440-1 have a really big exhaust port that ended up making the motor miss from 5200 RPM up because the dyno headers are to small to fit the 440-1 heads properly
There may have been a little bit more power left on the table because of that
That motor will have a set of custom made headers in the race car, 2 .125 stepped up to 2.25 with 4 inch collectors instead of a set of 2.0 inch primarys with 3.5 collectors, the flanges will be bigger than the exhaust ports with no over hang over the heads ports
Not like the dyno headers
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 04:54 PM
If you were happy with the performance of the SR combo, and only one head is damaged, then you could buy one head and have it ported to match the other one. That is less than buying two new heads!
But, I agree now is the time to step up if you want more power. IMO, the larger port of the 440-1 will make more power than the SR. And now is the time to get a good CNC port job. I like the 2.25" intake valve option, just make sure the piston valve reliefs are large enough in diameter for them.
The Edelbrock Victor with good CNC porting can match the 440-1. And I like their stuff. But I think it will cost you a little more in both work (pushrod fit, etc) and money since you already have the Indy valley plate, external oiling kit, etc.
I just don't think the B1-BS is up to the task. The B1 originals or MC are a big step up, but will cost even more.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 05:04 PM
Quote:
Thanks for the replies so far. It is looking like the -1s have more potential for increased flow. But what about on the engine real world power? What I mean is I don't want to turn the motor 7500 to make power. I know you guys both have built plenty of motors that's why I'm asking.
Thumper Dart, I was very happy with the SR heads but the head that got beat up would probably cost more to fix than what it is worth and they are pretty maxed out as far as porting goes.
Thanks again, Joe
I understand and that`s why I was asking..........looking to put another 400 stroker together and was just seeing if maybe they were 4 sale but if they`re that jacked up then.............
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 06:27 PM
It doesn't make any difference what cylinder head you choose, the difference is in who prepares it. Pick any head you want 440-1, B1 BS or Victor. Even the EZ head will go 370 cfm. Just get the right guy to port them.
Darn, you can get 730 HP with factory iron heads at 6600-6700 rpm.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/13/12 10:06 PM
The grief I had with Jesel rocker arms is due to the offset on the intake valves in a 440-1 type head combined with a poor design for holding the intake rockers in place. Even with offset lifters the angle is enough to hammer the rocker arm over against the piece that it registers against. That piece is a little C clip on the rocker shaft that positions the rocker. It rides against the needle bearing cage in the rocker arm. The needle bearing cage wears on the C clip and actually thins them out over time and at some point they will break. The needle bearing cages get beaten up from the repeated impact every valve cycle and the edges crack, deform and then the needles inside the bearings seize and gall the shafts. If you don't catch it soon enough the bearings will come apart and the little needle bearing rollers will fall into the motor and find their way to the oil pump, seize it up and shear off the tip of your bronze gear distributor/pump drive shaft. And then you are waiting on the right size engine bearings to put your motor back together! I hope my -.001 rod bearings get hear tomorrow! Oh, forgot about the oil pump and expensive oil pump cover that also got destroyed.
The end result of all this is over $1200 in repairs to just the rockers alone, and finally engineering a system for holding the rockers in place that doesn't rely on either the bearing cages or a C clip.
So choose wisely, and hope you get many runs out of what ever you build
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/14/12 06:09 AM
The question you want to ask yourself is, "how far do you want to go?"
If you're already replacing pistons(rods too?) and valvetrain, then
B1's aren't that much more than -1's, and it's a lot more power if you want to build it. S/F....Ken M
Posted By: dragram440
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/14/12 02:13 PM
Posted By: Boosted
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/14/12 02:38 PM
I like the 572-13's... That is what is on the Indy 528 we have..
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/14/12 05:30 PM
I talked to Nick at Compu Flow yesterday he had a few options for me. Nick said he might be able to fix the torn up head or he could port a new head for me. When I mentioned that this ordeal had blown my budget for a new aftermarket block he said I might want to think about the 440-1 heads so that I would have room to grow in the future. I think most of you are thinking the same way as Nick on this.
If anyone is intrested I would like to sell the SRs minus springs and retainers with the Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers. The heads had new valves put in them last year and the rockers were bought 3/11. I have the flow sheet etc. I don't know if the tore up head can be fixed or not. I would like to get $1000 for the heads and rockers. I figure that would cover most of the cost for a set of T&D rockers for the 440-1s
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/14/12 06:41 PM
I think it depends alot on what rpm do you want your peak power at. I think the -1s will want more rpm and the B1s even more.
Posted By: 70blackfish
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/15/12 12:27 AM
do you have a factory block...might want to think about the max hp on that.
Posted By: B1HEAD_USER
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/15/12 11:26 AM
Can you post pics of the damaged head?
Posted By: racerx
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/15/12 12:02 PM
Quote:
Last night my Indy SR heads droped a valve seat which broke the valve and piston. I am now in the market for a new set of heads among other parts. My SRs worked very well after Nick at Comp U Flow ported them but I think it is time to move on and try a new head.
I am looking at Indy 440-1s B-1 BS or Edelbrock Victors.These heads will be on a 499 low deck motor in a tube chassis 69 Dart. With the SR heads I was running low 5.70s in the 1/8th mile.
All suggestions and opinions appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
What's the weight on your car?assuming under 3000 lbs
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/15/12 01:01 PM
I am running a stock 400 block with a Hughes main girdle, I would like to keep the shift point around 6800 and cross the finish line at 7000 or less. Probably 95% of my racing is 1/8th mile. Yes the car is under 3000lb, it is in the 2800lb range with me.
I will get some pics posted this evening.
Thanks guys for all your help, Joe
Posted By: Hughes
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/15/12 02:40 PM
If you decide you want a set of fully CNC ported Edelbrock Victor heads we have them on sale. $200.00 off regular price and free shipping. We have flow charts on our web page. (http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/1headflowchartscomparisons.php#4658S3). This would make a set of heads right at $2600.00. Give me a call if you are interested. We'll throw in a free t-shirt for you as well.
Kevin (309-745-9558)
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/18/12 02:22 PM
Here is a picture of the damaged head. Sorry it took so long I have been out of town with no net. access.
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/18/12 02:24 PM
This one is a little clearer.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/18/12 02:27 PM
Wow!! That is hurt!!
I saw an Edelbrock Victor that was in worse shape than that one that was repaired. Radar at R&J Performance farmed it out to someone but I can't remember who it was...
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/18/12 02:37 PM
If you want to have it repaired,I know someone who is very good at it but a little slow!Due to a lot of race engine work.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/18/12 05:44 PM
Use Kevin Self in OK!
Posted By: tubtar
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/19/12 04:13 PM
Quote:
This one is a little clearer.
The first one was plenty clear...that you very much.
Mein Gott in Himmel , that had to sound as bad as it looks. 
The link to the craigslist post is an awful nice price.........I wish I did big blocks.
Posted By: jafr
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/19/12 05:37 PM
It didn't sound that bad. It all busted loose coming out of the burnout, the starter didn't hear it I shut the car off and told them to send the other car down the track. I thought it had broke a rocker.Believe it or not the short block can be saved, a sleeve in the block and 1 piston.
I think the B1-BS head would probably be fine with the 499 but I don't know if it would give me a lot of room to grow. If I had a unlimited budget I would buy 2 sets of heads, the B1-BS heads for my 470 short block and a set of 440-1s or possibly a set of ported Victors for the 499. Unfortunaetly I don't have that option, I am going to be stuck with the heads I buy for awhile. Decisions decisions.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/19/12 07:45 PM
Quote:
Wow!! That is hurt!! I saw an Edelbrock Victor that was in worse shape than that one that was repaired. Radar at R&J Performance farmed it out to someone but I can't remember who it was...
Probably the same guy who tried to fix our W5 head up in Iowa. Couldn't fix it due to the crappy aluminum. Larry Demers recommended him and was shocked he couldn't fix it. He had nothing but great things to say about him and they had sent some pretty messed up heads to him and they came back looking like new.
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/19/12 11:17 PM
The aluminum head or block repair is not cheap,and on a head unless you have a lot of $$$ in port work it may be cheaper just to replace it than fix it.It always ends up costing more than the estimate they give you.And to be fair to the repair shops some times you find more damage than you 1st thought when you start the work.
If I were you I would step up to the 440-1 heads,that way you would have room to go later.
PS It would not be a bad idea to if you go the 440-1 route to save your heads and look for a good deal on a used head to replace the damaged head.That way you end up with 2 sets of heads.
Posted By: Bishop
Re: What Cylinder heads for a 499 low deck - 08/20/12 03:31 PM
I'm putting a set of MP stage 6 MW heads ported by Brian @ IMM in CA that flow around 350 CFM on a 474 (400 low deck) and then I have a set of Stage 6 Chapmen CNC 385 MW thats going on a 512 low deck. The best thing about stage 6 on a low deck you can use any RB intake.
Brian