Why do people put v10 motors in these cars?

Posted By: torqueaddict

Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 02:56 PM

Guys yesterday I saw one of the coolest cars I ever saw! I saw a build on youtube that was completely custom, the coolest part was the power plant. It was a Viper motor that was twin turbo in a b body. I was really impressed till I looked up the specs on the older Viper motors and I came to an odd conclusion, puttin a Viper motor in a classic is kind of a waste. You can get the same if not more from a wedge stroker for far cheaper and easier to maintain. Am I out of line or is this how real mopar guys have always analyzed a v10 upgrade? It just seems very novelty not very practical at all.

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 03:15 PM

Quote:

Guys yesterday I saw one of the coolest cars I ever saw! I saw a build on youtube that was completely custom, the coolest part was the power plant. It was a Viper motor that was twin turbo in a b body. I was really impressed till I looked up the specs on the older Viper motors and I came to an odd conclusion, puttin a Viper motor in a classic is kind of a waste. You can get the same if not more from a wedge stroker for far cheaper and easier to maintain. Am I out of line or is this how real mopar guys have always analyzed a v10 upgrade? It just seems very novelty not very practical at all.

The same reason people build Hemi's and not wedges the name and wow factor. O course Iam not talking about guys who race their cars but more like the average muscle car owner price not being a factor would rather have a V10 or Hemi under the hood then a small block or Big block wedge IMO

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 03:46 PM

I agreed and then I started thinking...As far as easy to maintain, why isn't a hydraulic roller cam Viper engine easy to maintain? I mean, really, you have to buy 10 spark plugs instead of eight, and the oil change may require a few more quarts, but what else do you have to do to it?

Also, the Viper engine is all aluminum, and when you factor that into the build your cheap RB stroker gets expensive pretty fast.

As for power, TWIN TURBOS! how much do you want?

So the only real disadvantage I can see is space and possibly weight distribution.

Now ask me what I think about the truck V10 swaps.....

R.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:06 PM

Where you say " why ? " , I say " why not ? "
The " only kid on the block who has one " factor is definitely met here.
I don't see it as being impractical......probably a ton of fun too.

Posted By: joshking440

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:09 PM

They will make 1500hp with a couple of small turbos in a hurry, in stick form. That would be why I would do it.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:10 PM

A twin tubo viper should make well over 1000 hp, I've seen one running in the 8s, I believe with a stock/factory block

Do that with a factory RB block!

Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:11 PM

Quote:

They will make 1500hp with a couple of small turbos in a hurry, in stick form. That would be why I would do it.

With some boost, these engines can be absolute monsters.

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:46 PM

You can put twin turbo�s on a RB engine too! But I don�t see a V10 producing over 1000 hp without a power adder. Now a large displacement RB with really good aftermarket heads�!

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:53 PM

Quote:

You can put twin turbo�s on a RB engine too! But I don�t see a V10 producing over 1000 hp without a power adder. Now a large displacement RB with really good aftermarket heads�!

thats where the viperengine shines,it already has a longblock from the factory capable of realy stupid power by just adding some boost and probably a few odds and ends,compared to building a RB engine where the stockblock wont last for long at 3/4 of the power the viperengine will handle for a long time. building a complete bigblock out of good new parts will cost even more especialy if you want to build with a aluminum block..

ontop of that the coolfactor of a boosted viperswap is huge

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 04:56 PM

We had a V10 PT Cruiser at work(show car)

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 05:51 PM

Quote:

building a complete bigblock out of good new parts will cost even more especialy if you want to build with a aluminum block..

Those v10 twin turbo kits cost over 12K!

http://forcedinductions.com/Viperkit.htm

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 06:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

building a complete bigblock out of good new parts will cost even more especialy if you want to build with a aluminum block..

Those v10 twin turbo kits cost over 12K!

http://forcedinductions.com/Viperkit.htm

That's because they're for a Viper, marketed to Viper owners with $$$$$ a turbo kit is a turbo kit, buy a welder and some tubing, and it can be done much much cheaper. Willing to bet the margins on those are substantial.

Posted By: Dago Red

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 06:35 PM

He's got everybody here talking about his car, doesn't he??

Posted By: torqueaddict

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 06:59 PM

I agree with what you guys are saying. All I'm saying is if a viper motor comes with 400-500 hp and torque stock for 10k( about the average cost for a used viper motor). A RB that cost 10k to build would have more power I would imagine. If you had a stroker with 600-700 hp what would happen if you put twin turbo on that just imagine!!!!

Posted By: torqueaddict

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 08:12 PM

Quote:

He's got everybody here talking about his car, doesn't he??

I wish this were my car we were talking about!! It had me wanting to buy a b body. (I actually looked and went to see one).

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 08:14 PM

Quote:

I agree with what you guys are saying. All I'm saying is if a viper motor comes with 400-500 hp and torque stock for 10k( about the average cost for a used viper motor). A RB that cost 10k to build would have more power I would imagine. If you had a stroker with 600-700 hp what would happen if you put twin turbo on that just imagine!!!!

I believe they are 600/600 on a viper engine plus
your not talking apples to apples... viper engine
is alum vs iron BB.. so if you start figuring equal
parts the price is close but the BB sure wont have
the WOW

Posted By: Bill_LBSR

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 08:27 PM

A big block built to handle that amount of power with twin turbos would cost more then 10 grand.

Posted By: Bill_LBSR

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 08:31 PM

And turboed vipers make an impressive amount of power. There's a drag radial viper from Delaware that runs in the 7s and it is driven on the street. Still independant rear suspension too.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 08:50 PM

If I wanted Viper power I would take the Viper with it.

Posted By: 67HEMI

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 10:37 PM

Two good reasons right here! Lee Saunders in the Silver car is the nicest Mopar guy you will ever meet too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYpx-0HJMQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZymTLk2a8s

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/20/12 11:11 PM

Quote:

I agree with what you guys are saying. All I'm saying is if a viper motor comes with 400-500 hp and torque stock for 10k( about the average cost for a used viper motor).

here's one, best offer.

http://www.viperalley.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7946&sort=2&cat=5&page=2

complete engine, transmission, computer, and harness for 9 grand. sell what you don't want and the engine is way less than 10 grand, or right at 10 grand for everything including a T-56 manual transmission.

http://www.viperalley.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7882&sort=2&cat=5&page=4

short block for 6 grand. and heads for $750

http://classifieds.viperclub.org/showpro...-cam&cat=47

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-VIPER-SRT1...e37&vxp=mtr

complete engine for under 6 grand...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Dodge-Viper...=item3cbd9efffb

the other thing to consider is that a FACTORY STOCK viper block can make a ton of power by just adding boost. take a factory stock RB block and add boost, what's the limit? 700? 800? maybe 1000 hp if you're careful with it.

you'd need an expensive, aftermarket block to go over 1000 hp reliably.

Posted By: torqueaddict

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 03:22 AM

Quote:

A big block built to handle that amount of power with twin turbos would cost more then 10 grand.

Realistically whats the most power you could get from a wedge stroker with turbo? could you at least put 800 hp and torque to the wheels? What would be the limit and still be reliable and streetable. Also are there any twin turbo setups or regular turbo systems that will work with a wedge motor or even a hemi?

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 03:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A big block built to handle that amount of power with twin turbos would cost more then 10 grand.

Realistically whats the most power you could get from a wedge stroker with turbo? could you at least put 800 hp and torque to the wheels? What would be the limit and still be reliable and streetable. Also are there any twin turbo setups or regular turbo systems that will work with a wedge motor or even a hemi?

I don't know the limit of the stock block, isn't it up around the 800-900 hp mark? (streetable, non-filled block)

anyway, a turbo is a turbo. anyone can put a turbo onto anything. all you need is exhaust gasses plumbed to spin the turbo up, and the output side of the turbo plumbed to the intake of the carb/TB. Feets has a twin turbo 440, I think he had the wick on that one turned up to around 800-900 hp with EFI.

Posted By: A57_RT

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 04:19 AM

Thems crazy prices, I bought this late gen 1 405hp forged internal motor off this board 3 years ago for $4500 to the door, from clutch to ac comp, starter, assembly line motor with org oil filter and paperwork from mound road, $800 for a used correct 18k mile trans, $600 for a stand alone gen computer, $200 for a new gen rad, and used oil cooler lines off the bag.

The only bad part if any is its 800 pound plus full dressed weight.

Alot of room for easy hp with no cats and a aftermerket computer.

Quote:

Quote:

I agree with what you guys are saying. All I'm saying is if a viper motor comes with 400-500 hp and torque stock for 10k( about the average cost for a used viper motor).

here's one, best offer.

http://www.viperalley.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7946&sort=2&cat=5&page=2

complete engine, transmission, computer, and harness for 9 grand. sell what you don't want and the engine is way less than 10 grand, or right at 10 grand for everything including a T-56 manual transmission.

http://www.viperalley.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=7882&sort=2&cat=5&page=4

short block for 6 grand. and heads for $750

http://classifieds.viperclub.org/showpro...-cam&cat=47

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-VIPER-SRT1...e37&vxp=mtr

complete engine for under 6 grand...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Dodge-Viper...=item3cbd9efffb

the other thing to consider is that a FACTORY STOCK viper block can make a ton of power by just adding boost. take a factory stock RB block and add boost, what's the limit? 700? 800? maybe 1000 hp if you're careful with it.

you'd need an expensive, aftermarket block to go over 1000 hp reliably.

Posted By: JackGTX440

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 04:48 AM

Quote:

the other thing to consider is that a FACTORY STOCK viper block can make a ton of power by just adding boost. take a factory stock RB block and add boost, what's the limit? 700? 800? maybe 1000 hp if you're careful with it.

you'd need an expensive, aftermarket block to go over 1000 hp reliably.

This^^^

The stock viper block can just about handle what a $4500 aftermarket RB block can handle.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 04:58 AM

I know Scott(dizuster) made about 470 RWhp with his stock
block 360 with a turbo... he was driving right through
the conv with 18% slippage on the dyno... I'm not
sure if he even changed the pistons to lower the
compression any farther than the low compression it
already had... and he didnt even have the boost up much
at all... and you cant even hear that car running..
thats the trick part about turbos

Posted By: racerx

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 04:45 PM

So what is that the key to running a lot of HP on pump gas with these cars?

meth injections?

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 07:56 PM

I think they're very cool powerplants, but I'll never get past the fact that they just don't sound right. Nothing better than a good old fashion V8....

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 08:12 PM

Quote:

I think they're very cool powerplants, but I'll never get past the fact that they just don't sound right. Nothing better than a good old fashion V8....

Its just the sound you grew up with... hell kids now
days love the sound of a 4 banger with a fart can...
I like the V10 sound... its just different

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/21/12 10:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think they're very cool powerplants, but I'll never get past the fact that they just don't sound right. Nothing better than a good old fashion V8....

Its just the sound you grew up with... hell kids now
days love the sound of a 4 banger with a fart can...
I like the V10 sound... its just different

Nahh, they sound like dump truck motor with a plug wire missing!

Posted By: JackGTX440

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/22/12 05:33 AM

Yeah, I agree they don't sound well. Something as exotic as a v10 absolutely needs to have a flat plane crank to sound good. It would give it more of a formula 1 sound rather than sound like a 3.9 Dakota with a dynomax...

Posted By: DakFink

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/22/12 08:07 AM

I just happen to own a Gen -3 Viper as well as a Turbo Small Block Dakota.

First off $12,000 for ANY Twin Turbo set-up pre-fabbed is not a bad price for any vehicle. I had almost that in just parts for the twins for my Dakota and still had to have a few pieces fabbed. Was quoted $15,000 to have one built from scratch about 6 yrs ago.

My Viper on the other hand makes 500hp/490trq from the factory. Idles at just over 750rpms and gets 90% of that Trq by 2200rpms and carries it all the way to redline. This is all from a 9.6:1 compression motor.
The car has 3.08 gears and will do 80+mph in second gear. If you take it over 2500rpms YOU better have it pointed in the right direction and have you marbles together. IT is a Handful. Gets about 23mpg on the Highway.

Mopar has an Upgrade kit they claim brings it up to the Gen-4 HP spec of 640hp BUT from people that have actually installed it and had it dyno'd it is closer to the New 2013 Viper Specs at about 680hp. All in a N/A Pump Gas engine that idles like a Kitten and drives like a beast. And I can get that kit for about $7000 vs the Mopar Price of $10000 if I join VCoA for $150/yr

At the end of the day it's all about the CUI. 488 in the Gen 1&2 , 505 in the Gen-3 and 512 in the Gen-4. 2103=????

The sound is like a P's'd off 6-cylinder to about 2000rpms then it has that distinct sound that let's you know it's a SupeCar.

All that said!!! Yes I see why people choose these engine to transplant. And like an R3, Hemi, or any other top performer the prices are about the same for the same level of performance AND if you know where to look you can save yourself a lot of $$$$.

Posted By: feets

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/23/12 07:55 PM

$12K for a turbo kit is horrible but people will pay it.

That's why my "kit" was a DIY "feets special" and came in under $3500 including the entire engine rebuild.

It's all about cubic dollars vs free time.
If you don't have the time to build it, buy it.
If you don't have the money to buy it, build it.

Posted By: JackGTX440

Re: Why do people put v10 motors in these cars? - 07/23/12 08:02 PM

I agree. I will probably have less than that into mine, and that includes the price o the TIG welder, higher end notcher an insulating my shop...