R5 P7 question with pictures

Ok guys, I need to confirm this is a one pc real seal.

I need to get a spare block for my new build and would like to get the same block style so I can eventually build a spare bullet and not have to change anything.

Yes that is a new style 1 piece rear main seal.

Thanks Jesse I knew you would come through.

Is there an old style 1 pc or is it just a newer design that is one pc?

Looking at getting a spare block and headers from your contact.

The old stuff is a 2 piece and newer stuff is 1 piece. The 2 piece stuff is drying up a bit and seems to be a bit more expensive than it used to be. I know last time I talked to Butch he had some good deals on 1 piece stuff.

Great info thanks.

I ended up going Browell bell housing, Bruno and a Liberty Extreme. It should be a fun car to drive.

Yeah I will be in touch with him in the next month or so.

Car goes to the shop in Sept, I think. Oct for sure.

Awesome! Post pics of the progress. That will be a cool build.

I have blocks that obviously are converted from 2-piece seal to 1-piece seal. They are just machined for a bigger seal. They also have more meat on the aluminum seal retainer just where it is needed, and the oil pan is relieved (cut) on the same spot to avoid interference with the seal retainer. Should be simple to machine. I had 3 blocks missing 1pc seal retainers and I made 3 seal retainers out of billet, and machined them on the blocks (with a Van Norman boring bar) that were prepared for 1 piece seal. If you look at these blocks they have residuals of the inner threaded portion of the 2- piece seal retainer (it uses 4 bolts. The 1 piece retainer uses the 2 outer bolts). Just so you know that they were converted this way. If you can get a block for the 2-seal retainer you can weld the extra aluminum to the retainer before machining. Take a measurement on the block to ensure it is cast with enough material to enable the single seal. I also think the main measures of the seal is a std Ford. Found out that a 2,3l Pinto seal would fit.
My

Sounds like a lot of work. Is it worth doing, with 1 piece rear seal block so readily avail?

There is at least one, one piece block on ebay for under 1k dollars I believe. A little rusty, but brand new otherwise. There's a new 2 piecer for 1900 and this one LOOKS brand new.

DId you have the Browel bell made for the R5 or is it mopar with an adapter plate. Was just thinking about this. I may buy one of these engines. Considered simply modifying the JW bell for the R5 block or just getting a browel bell for a Reid case. Would love to run the Bruno Liberty combo.

If you don't mind what is the cost of going with that transmission?

Leon

Oyvind, that is some great info but like stated above, a lot of work to do for a block that is readily available here in the states. I will stay with the one pc stuff.


Leon, I have been in contact with Browell, it will be a full on steel or aluminum bell housing. No conversion plates. Also retain stock R5 starter location using a Tilton R5 starter.

If you go with all new stuff you are looking at about 15k with trans, bruno and bell housing. Then add on the starter and converter. Bruno will sell you the unit without the Bellhousing they use for $100 less than advertised. Thier bell is GM and has a 400 turbo spline input shaft.

Yes that is a big amount of $$ but, it should NEVER break. If you plan on running the car for 10 years, then you will come out about even when looking at a trans that can handle upto say 1200hp. Initial cost, rebuilds and breakage will add up over 10 years.

As someone here said, buy once cry once...

Libertys do break...usually the sliders, but it s a easy fix

The only time I have seen a Liberty Extreme break was after the drive shaft twisted 1.5 times then let go.

1200 HP Is that all they are rated for?
I know a guy making a lot more than that with a Bruno G force three speed. He had to go to a large input shaft to handle the turbo.

I am not knocking the Bruno Liberty. Think the cool factor alone is awesome. But, my little powerglide has handled 1,500 HP and tons of tire shake. I rebuild it for less than $100 every year. I have had converter trouble but a bruno uses a converter also.

So for three times the money I could have a stick to play with going down the track and should go faster. The other side is the route you are taking does not require a $750 and up adapter plate. Just wish this deal was more affordable. Not saying I would not do it. If I could get half the money for the powerglide it cost to build I would jump on the opportunity.

Will Browell offer a discount if you do two bell housings?

Leon

No I was meaning a turbo 400 or 727.

The Liberty I have is rated to 3500hp @3000 lbs.

I have a Liberty Extreme, rated to 3500hp @ 3000lbs.

The Bruno handles that no problem.

Due to the class I am running I have a 4spd but you can get the Liberty in a 5spd. They are on racing junk every once in a while.

There are tons of gear ratios to choose from...

Yes the Bruno uses a convertor, that "challenge" is not avoided...

You can find Brunos for sale too, just need to get lucky. But needing a 4spd getting used would be hard for me.

Not sure if they will do a group buy, when I am ready, a month at most, I will let you know. If you are ready or interested I will ask. They will want to know if you are running a bolt together convertor as the bells are then longer. I am running a NCR bolt together. I know more $$$ but hey this is the closest to what I want to do and still afford to live...

Hope that helps Leon

EDIT: the pic above is from a 2800lbs dual frame rail Camaro with a 706 and 4 stages of squeeze, only 2-3 used depending on what was needed. That twisted the drive shaft which caused the case failure. I doubt a glide, 727 or 400 would lived with that sort of failure. Actually the driver broke his thumb on the halo bar and had a slight sepraration of his shoulder. Pretty Violent.

I guess most problems with a liberty is from driver errors or wrong adjusted shifters,
the newer type sliders looks stronger

it s a bit different to drive with a converter, remember to press transbrake button before putting it in gear

Mafo, the only Liberty Extreme failure I have see is the one I have the picture of above. Other than that I ahve not heard or seen any failures. But I am not at the track as much as I used to be. so who knows.

Now the trans brake trick, is that from experience? I am sure it is going to take me a while to figure out the car once done.

It s from experience, don t ask

It s a few things that are different without a clutch, input shaft is turning all the time unless trans brake is on, you will break a slider if you don t push the brake button...

If you make a short burnout, don t use 4 gear or it will jam and stay in 4 till you shut the motor down, even if you put it in first, 4 is still on and will bump first gear of and the car will leave in fourth, if you do a longer (rolling) burnout just touch the tb button while the car is still rolling and it will go to neutral

I don t know if this make any sense now but it will

I thought as soon as you let off the trans went to neutral? Or is that due to the bruno and not the clutch?

All good points. Once the car is able to make passes, I will be in touch. I am thinking over a year unless my job stays as busy as it is now. then could be 6 months.

not fourth gear(or fifth on a 5 speed), after the finish line you need to "blip the throttle" to let it go to neutral, it s a bit different but works very good

don t know if it is faster than a automatic but sure makes you feel like a "real" racer

Bill Harris picked up considerably going to the Bruno G force over the powerglide.

It sure looked like you were having a lot of fun Ken shifting gears.

I understand the concept of having to apply T-brake to get the trans in gear. Just like the input shaft brake on a big truck. You either have to be rolling or push the clutch to the floor to apply the brake or it aint going in gear. Rrrrrgh Rnnngtt Rgnnnttt-tt

Don't really understand the reasons for the fourth gear deal not wanting to come out of gear. I assume the converter is turning the input and not wanting to quit after a burnout. The driveshaft has almost or stopped and everything is jammed with stored energy. Bump the Transbrake to stop the input shaft and the tranny will let go of fourth gear. Does this make sense?

fourth have a different slider than the others, it will pop out of gear in a no load situation only, you will have engine braking in 4 gear and when you drive around the pits you use 4 gear

once you have stopped the car with fourth engaged the only way to get neutral is to shut the engine down, the tb trick only works if the car is still rolling, slowly that is, to much speed and it will lock up the rear wheels when the slider don t have time to find the "window"

I make my burnouts in third to avoid the hassle

Ok so you are saying when I go through the traps and let off the gas, the trans will not neutral out that I have to blip the throttle to get it to neutral out?

Just wanting to make sure....

Also if I am doing a rolling burnout I can 3-4 shift and not have to worry about sticking in 4th? it will neutral out? then reverse back? I feel like such a newb. This is getting way complicated. Clutch please!!!

you will figure it out

I have been thinking about a clutch lately ,according to the clutch guys
my car would fly with a clutch , but I m not so sure...

I have worked on a clutch Liberty combo before.

They fly. but the between round maint is crazy.


Better hope you don't have to hot lap the car, you don't have the time to cool the clutch enough to re-zero it and make any adjustments. Also a race pak would be needed to see what is going on. A lot of things go into making clutch cars go. One reason there are not many clutch cars and a lot running a Bruno.

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I have worked on a clutch Liberty combo before.

They fly. but the between round maint is crazy.


Better hope you don't have to hot lap the car, you don't have the time to cool the clutch enough to re-zero it and make any adjustments. Also a race pak would be needed to see what is going on. A lot of things go into making clutch cars go. One reason there are not many clutch cars and a lot running a Bruno.

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AMEN! There is some ET to be found in the clutch can just not sure it's worth the hassle. LOL