Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today!

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It's good to see this thread take on a life of it's own!
I've been to busy to flow the other heads and sonic test the 5.7 block. I'm hoping to have some info this week.
Icon just finished scanning the late 5.7 head, and will soon have both a 10.25:1 piston and 13:1 piston with a 3.900 stroke and 4.050 stroke in a 5.7 bore size as well as 6.1 bore size.
This piston can only work with the late head as it's chamber is different than the early 5.7 and 6.1.
Brian

Will they offer a stock stroke piston? I have rods in my back and can't climb thru a rollcage. I can only use bars with a swing-out. I'm only wanting to make around 550 hp so I don't need the stroker setup. We talked to Hughes and a few others and the 550 mark will be an eay build with the stock stroke and eagle heads, drag pack intake, good headers and a mild hyd roller cam. I just wish a roller rocker setup wasnt almost 2 grand! Thats just crazy! We will be knocking the block 40 over and needing forged slugs. My magnum motor has been racing for 7 years and went 5 years with the valvecovers never being taken off. I hope the 5.7 will be the same but with more rpms and fun.

Yes they will offer a nice stock stroke piston but be carefull about using the late 5.7 hemi head with a stock stroke. TQ will be very low at low rpm so if your going to use tall gears for the street, I'd either go with the early 5.7 heads with some slight porting, or the late heads with a 3.900 or 4.050 crank.
Don't use the stock rods!

Sorry I have kept you guys hanging...I just took the family camping for 4 days to get away from work and spend some time with them.
Brian

Brian, it will be a basic bracket foot brake motor. I am running a 904 trans with a T/A 8" verter with a 4800 stall, 4.10 rear gear with a 28.5 drag radial. The car weighs in at just under 3300 with me in it soaking wet. Cam motion will prob cut me a camshaft. They said they have a wicked stock-elim grind for it.

Compression will help!!

Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/11/12 03:36 PM

Looking forward to reading this one!

Posted By: gremlinsteve

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/12/12 12:45 AM

Novawagonmaster over on LXforums is going to crack a 10.99 with an all forged 5.7 in a 4000lb Raceweight Challenger soon enough with the same heads. This is a mid port head (stage 2).

not any more, in fact i have sent a different cam out and there is another set of heads going on that motor. well see what we can get it to soon

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/12/12 04:54 AM

Sorry guys, long dyno day and no flow #'s on the hemi heads. I will have them tomorrow for sure. I'll have pics of the 6.1 and early 5.7 heads too.

Plan on sonic testing the block tomorrow if I have time.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/14/12 12:16 AM

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/14/12 12:28 AM

The 5.7 being a 3.92" bore and the 6.1 being a 4.05" bore, do you see any real drawbacks using a 5.7 block besides the obvious lower cubes? Was wondering if there would be an issue with airflow around valves, especially if stepping up to larger valves like in the 6.1 heads or the newer Apache 6.4 heads.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/14/12 06:00 AM

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The 5.7 being a 3.92" bore and the 6.1 being a 4.05" bore, do you see any real drawbacks using a 5.7 block besides the obvious lower cubes? Was wondering if there would be an issue with airflow around valves, especially if stepping up to larger valves like in the 6.1 heads or the newer Apache 6.4 heads.

If you look at what Bischoff did with the 5.7 in the Engine Masters, I'd say it's not nearly as bad as if it were a wedge deal.
I know the EM stuff is very trick, but I have a hard time believing you couldn't make 700+HP with a high compression, large cam'd stroker 5.7.
I'm sure the larger bore engine will be easier to get more power out of, or easier to hit a certain HP #....I know I wouldn't mind having an aluminum 4.125 bore block to go in the duster!!
But we'll focus on the 5.7 blocks for cost and availability reasons.

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/14/12 12:56 PM

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The 5.7 being a 3.92" bore and the 6.1 being a 4.05" bore, do you see any real drawbacks using a 5.7 block besides the obvious lower cubes? Was wondering if there would be an issue with airflow around valves, especially if stepping up to larger valves like in the 6.1 heads or the newer Apache 6.4 heads.

There is a guy on the LX forum that has a stroker 5.7 that had ported eagle head running itnto the mid 11'w he switch to a set of ported 6.4 apache heads and went .2 quicker in the 1/4 mile. Keep in mind his block was bored .020 over. A member Matt on this board posted the apache head on a standard bore 5.7 and the intake valve looks close to the cylinder walls

Posted By: fishy340

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 12:56 AM

Dave Kogan aka hemi Dave here on long island did one of those n/a hemi motors, car is over 4000 and it's in the 10's...no info on it other then my bud seeing it in person

Posted By: jyrki

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 10:06 AM

I run a short filled 400 block in the street for several years, just a tad above the bottom of the freezeplugs. Had no oil cooler and no oil temp gauge. And also no problems with a 3.75" stroke. I also run a RB block filled close to the tops of the freeze plugs, 4.15" stroke, no oil cooler or gauge. In that case the oil got propably too hot in continuous driving on the freeway, the oil pressure dropped after about 1/2 hour of driving from 60-70 psi to 30-40 psi level. Swithcing to synthetics made the situation better, there was even some pressure at idle. I kind of figured that as long as the fill stays below the piston ring travel, there is zero problems, and as you raise the level, the more problems. Oil cooler is definitely a good idea, and should let you use even a realtively tall fill in a streeter.

Posted By: StandOnIt

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 12:23 PM

Here are some pics my brother took yesterday showing the port sizes on the eagle heads vs the early 5.7 heads. Crazy the size jump on the eagle. I will start clean up on the eagles and hand port / polish soon. Is there roller rockers avail for these motors yet? The eagles have only 40k miles and the valve tips are beat up awfully bad from the stock rockers.

Attached picture 7206823-5.7intake.jpg

Posted By: StandOnIt

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 12:25 PM

Exhaust side. 5.7 eagle head left. early 5.7 head right.

Attached picture 7206824-5.7exhaust.jpg

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 04:38 PM

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Here are some pics my brother took yesterday showing the port sizes on the eagle heads vs the early 5.7 heads. Crazy the size jump on the eagle. I will start clean up on the eagles and hand port / polish soon. Is there roller rockers avail for these motors yet? The eagles have only 40k miles and the valve tips are beat up awfully bad from the stock rockers.

good comparing pic,thats a huge diference!

as for rockers http://www.harlandsharp.com/hemi.htm

Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 04:51 PM

what years are the early and late heads??

my 5.7 is 2004

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 05:08 PM

2004 will be early heads. 2009 I believe is the first year of the Eagle Head.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/15/12 09:11 PM

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what years are the early and late heads??

my 5.7 is 2004

Your 04 are early.
2003 2008 5.7 early
2009 to present 5.7 late.
6.1 go to 2010 I THINK
6.4 2011 to present I THINK

Matt

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/16/12 05:31 AM

It's good to see this thread take on a life of it's own!
I've been to busy to flow the other heads and sonic test the 5.7 block. I'm hoping to have some info this week.
Icon just finished scanning the late 5.7 head, and will soon have both a 10.25:1 piston and 13:1 piston with a 3.900 stroke and 4.050 stroke in a 5.7 bore size as well as 6.1 bore size.
This piston can only work with the late head as it's chamber is different than the early 5.7 and 6.1.
Brian

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/18/12 03:09 PM

Quote:

It's good to see this thread take on a life of it's own!
I've been to busy to flow the other heads and sonic test the 5.7 block. I'm hoping to have some info this week.
Icon just finished scanning the late 5.7 head, and will soon have both a 10.25:1 piston and 13:1 piston with a 3.900 stroke and 4.050 stroke in a 5.7 bore size as well as 6.1 bore size.
This piston can only work with the late head as it's chamber is different than the early 5.7 and 6.1.
Brian

Posted By: racer_amx

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/18/12 05:13 PM

Awesome

Posted By: StandOnIt

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/19/12 02:56 PM

Quote:

It's good to see this thread take on a life of it's own!
I've been to busy to flow the other heads and sonic test the 5.7 block. I'm hoping to have some info this week.
Icon just finished scanning the late 5.7 head, and will soon have both a 10.25:1 piston and 13:1 piston with a 3.900 stroke and 4.050 stroke in a 5.7 bore size as well as 6.1 bore size.
This piston can only work with the late head as it's chamber is different than the early 5.7 and 6.1.
Brian

Will they offer a stock stroke piston? I have rods in my back and can't climb thru a rollcage. I can only use bars with a swing-out. I'm only wanting to make around 550 hp so I don't need the stroker setup. We talked to Hughes and a few others and the 550 mark will be an eay build with the stock stroke and eagle heads, drag pack intake, good headers and a mild hyd roller cam. I just wish a roller rocker setup wasnt almost 2 grand! Thats just crazy! We will be knocking the block 40 over and needing forged slugs. My magnum motor has been racing for 7 years and went 5 years with the valvecovers never being taken off. I hope the 5.7 will be the same but with more rpms and fun.

Posted By: SLEDGEHAMMER

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/19/12 11:58 PM

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Nice, cant wait to see the results

I am looking forward to the results also.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/22/12 10:43 PM

It's a pretty large port. I'd be willing to bet it'll hurt low speed TQ over the early casting. But with a higher rpm range, and good compression the late head should be much better!

Posted By: patrick

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/23/12 02:40 PM

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It's a pretty large port. I'd be willing to bet it'll hurt low speed TQ over the early casting. But with a higher rpm range, and good compression the late head should be much better!

it's gotta be all relative, as my '11 charger R/T doesn't feel like it's soft on the low end, even with 28.6" tires, 2.65 rear and 3.59 1st gear (so, equivalant first gear as a 727 with 3.8 rear gears and a 28" tire, or 3.66's and 27" tire)

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 12:16 AM

Did all the flow testing today. Now the 6.1 heads I have, someone has done some mild cleanup to the ports...doesn't look like any carbide work just some flashing removal and blending with a cartridge roll.
Other than that, all theads are untouched OOTB.

First is the pre '09 5.7 head with stock 2.00x1.55 valves and factory VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 54
200 151 120
300 223 158
400 256 177
500 265 186
600 267 190
700 268 190

Late 5.7 Hemi with 2.03x1.55 factory valves and VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 52
200 155 116
300 233 156
400 283 182
500 303 192
600 308 195
700 311 196

6.1 Hemi with factory 2.08x1.6 valves and factory VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 61
200 146 122
300 221 170
400 278 200
500 315 205
600 334 209
700 338 210

So what does it all mean? Haaaa....I think any of these heads will work awesome but they do have drasticly different port shapes and sizes. I'll post pics tonite so you can see them next to one another.
I really like the later 5.7 head with the smaller chambers. And they have much longer valves than the other heads have as well.

The early 5.7 had much faster intake ports since the ports are much smaller than the late 5.7 and 6.1 so they should work best with smaller cid engines and lower rpm strokers especially with some mild port work.
I'm hoping we start doing some testing here within a couple of months and anything we do I'll post it up.
Brian

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:51 AM

early 5.7 on top of a 6.1...

Attached picture 7227739-May292012001.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:51 AM

Attached picture 7227741-May292012002.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:51 AM

Attached picture 7227742-May292012003.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:53 AM

early 5.7 and late 5.7

Attached picture 7227744-May292012004.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:53 AM

Attached picture 7227745-May292012005.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:54 AM

late 5.7 chamber

Attached picture 7227746-May292012006.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:54 AM

late 5.7 on flow bench

Attached picture 7227748-May292012007.JPG

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 04:55 AM

MUCHO PORT!!

Attached picture 7227749-May292012008.JPG

Posted By: mshred

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/30/12 05:33 AM

These heads are super impressive for out of the box stuff...I look forward to what else you find so that I can ask myself even more why the heck im still playing with the LA stuff lol

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/31/12 02:42 AM

Quote:

Did all the flow testing today. Now the 6.1 heads I have, someone has done some mild cleanup to the ports...doesn't look like any carbide work just some flashing removal and blending with a cartridge roll.
Other than that, all theads are untouched OOTB.

First is the pre '09 5.7 head with stock 2.00x1.55 valves and factory VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 54
200 151 120
300 223 158
400 256 177
500 265 186
600 267 190
700 268 190

Late 5.7 Hemi with 2.03x1.55 factory valves and VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 52
200 155 116
300 233 156
400 283 182
500 303 192
600 308 195
700 311 196

6.1 Hemi with factory 2.08x1.6 valves and factory VJ:
Lift Int. Ex.
100 72 61
200 146 122
300 221 170
400 278 200
500 315 205
600 334 209
700 338 210

So what does it all mean? Haaaa....I think any of these heads will work awesome but they do have drasticly different port shapes and sizes. I'll post pics tonite so you can see them next to one another.
I really like the later 5.7 head with the smaller chambers. And they have much longer valves than the other heads have as well.

The early 5.7 had much faster intake ports since the ports are much smaller than the late 5.7 and 6.1 so they should work best with smaller cid engines and lower rpm strokers especially with some mild port work.
I'm hoping we start doing some testing here within a couple of months and anything we do I'll post it up.
Brian

Just got my set flowed 5.7 stock head
intake ............. exhaust
.100 72.2 ............ 56.6
.200 150.4 ............ 112.4
.300 217.3 ............ 148.9
.400 272.5 ............ 176.3
.500 299.2 ............ 183.6
.600 302 ............ 185

not bad for a STOCK HEAD. Matt

I don't think I remember to put the putty on.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 05/31/12 05:51 AM

I used a 2" pipe on all the exhaust ports when I flowed them.
Without a flow radius on the intake, the air shears at the opening and skews the results.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/04/12 06:20 PM

What are people using for a valve spring compressor?
My manual C clamp is a [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] to use. Matt

Posted By: goldmember

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/04/12 06:24 PM

You can buy a spring compressor from several sources,I made my own as it's pretty easy,cheap and faster than ordering one. Crane cams as well as others have what you need.

Posted By: AlexP

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/04/12 06:43 PM

On the car or off the car?

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/04/12 07:29 PM

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On the car or off the car?

C CLAMP. off the car. I know about all the different types.
Just thought my simple manual C Clamp type would work better.
Maybe its me but never had a problem with regular heads.
Eventually I will make one that site on the heads and you scew the spring to compress it.

Posted By: AlexP

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/04/12 08:14 PM

http://www.mtiracingtools.com/ValveSpringCompressor.html

I've only used this. It was a breeze. It's only justified if you do it daily.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 02:28 PM

Hey its back

Brian let's keep this going . I have a new set of Apache heads I will flow soon.
Man the valve and port are big.
Really looking for a set of OFF THE SHELF piston and rod combo for the factory 3.72 stroke crankshaft. Matt

Posted By: sshemi

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 03:21 PM

hey Brian have you measured the volume of the ports?
Would be very interesting.

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 07:41 PM

Well I just got my 6.4 heads in the mail today

http://s1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/540Challenger/GenIII%20Hemi%20build/

My Alum. block should be here tomorrow i will have pictures up tomorrow

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 07:53 PM

Quote:

Well I just got my 6.4 heads in the mail today

http://s1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/540Challenger/GenIII%20Hemi%20build/

My Alum. block should be here tomorrow i will have pictures up tomorrow

Which block did you get . Same place as the heads?
Will be keeping an eye on you. Lol

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 09:00 PM

No port volumes as of yet. Ahhhh a 6.4 deal would be very nice. I would love to work with the aluminum block too.
I'm so buried here at work who know's when I'll have time to get to the Hemi builds. I'm having some difficulty keeping up.

On a different note...I hope to be building a stroker 6.1 for my Duster by the end of the year so let's keep this going!!

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/05/12 09:50 PM

Quote:

No port volumes as of yet. Ahhhh a 6.4 deal would be very nice. I would love to work with the aluminum block too.
I'm so buried here at work who know's when I'll have time to get to the Hemi builds. I'm having some difficulty keeping up.

On a different note...I hope to be building a stroker 6.1 for my Duster by the end of the year so let's keep this going!!

Brian I think their is only 3 ways to make the Apache head work.
Force induction, spinning.it to the moon in small CID form or large cubes.
The second one I'm concern about possible oiling issues.
The last ,and this is my avenues, is using the 4.25 crank. Apparently BES had to sink the valve .070 to make this work.

I could be totally wrong in saying this so don't take it personal. I don't think you need any expertise to port this heads.
The port is a straight shot at the valve. No short turn to worry about.

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/06/12 11:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No port volumes as of yet. Ahhhh a 6.4 deal would be very nice. I would love to work with the aluminum block too.
I'm so buried here at work who know's when I'll have time to get to the Hemi builds. I'm having some difficulty keeping up.

On a different note...I hope to be building a stroker 6.1 for my Duster by the end of the year so let's keep this going!!

Brian I think their is only 3 ways to make the Apache head work.
Force induction, spinning.it to the moon in small CID form or large cubes.
The second one I'm concern about possible oiling issues.
The last ,and this is my avenues, is using the 4.25 crank. Apparently BES had to sink the valve .070 to make this work.

I could be totally wrong in saying this so don't take it personal. I don't think you need any expertise to port this heads.
The port is a straight shot at the valve. No short turn to worry about.

Matt i will have to dig through my LXforum PMs but their is a guy who was running with ported eagles that upgraded to ported apache heads on a 5.7 stroker i think

Here are the results at the track and dyno numbers

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f252/alcharger-new-pb-today-alabama-international-dragway-293944/

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f71/%2A%2Aapache-heads-dyno-results%2A%2A-281614/

Posted By: patrick

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/07/12 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

No port volumes as of yet. Ahhhh a 6.4 deal would be very nice. I would love to work with the aluminum block too.
I'm so buried here at work who know's when I'll have time to get to the Hemi builds. I'm having some difficulty keeping up.

On a different note...I hope to be building a stroker 6.1 for my Duster by the end of the year so let's keep this going!!

Brian I think their is only 3 ways to make the Apache head work.
Force induction, spinning.it to the moon in small CID form or large cubes.
The second one I'm concern about possible oiling issues.
The last ,and this is my avenues, is using the 4.25 crank. Apparently BES had to sink the valve .070 to make this work.

I could be totally wrong in saying this so don't take it personal. I don't think you need any expertise to port this heads.
The port is a straight shot at the valve. No short turn to worry about.

IDK, a stock 392 works pretty well with them....granted they have variable valve timing....

I remember a long time ago, Dulcich did a stock stroke 440 using some big indy heads (can't remember if they were SR's or 440-1) that one would think would be waaaay too big for stock cubes, with a short, fast duration cam (IIRC comp XE275HL with either 1.6 or 1.7 rockers), and other than valtrain stability issues at high RPM caused by the hydraulic lifter, the engine was very responsive, and a monster both in HP and torque...

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/07/12 05:21 PM

A big Wedge head is a bit different than a big Hemi head! Everyone know's 426 Hemi's don't make any low speed power...it's all up top.

I don't think a 4.25 stroke is the best thing for most applications for me anyway. I like an engine that has some poop up top. I mean, isn't this what makes the Hemi Famous??
I like the 3.79 and 3.90 strokes, and I think 8000rpm is plenty to make most bracket guys happy. That's where we will be consentrating our efforts.
Brian

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/07/12 06:05 PM

when will we get some ported flow numbers?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/07/12 07:34 PM

Quote:

when will we get some ported flow numbers?

It might be a few weeks. I really want to do some dyno testing with the stock heads and get aquainted to their characteristics before I port them although it's probably a waste of time but if the Eagle head works well OOTB on our stroker engines with our cams it'll save the customer money not porting them.
That's my main goal, getting these engines priced where they are affordable, reliable and making power.
Brian

Posted By: patrick

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/07/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

A big Wedge head is a bit different than a big Hemi head! Everyone know's 426 Hemi's don't make any low speed power...it's all up top.

yes and no...you get some inherent tumble and swirl induced by the wedge head's valves proximity to the cylinder wall, as well as increased shrouding that you won't get with a hemi or pentroof (closer to what the genIII is)....but overall intke tract length, port volume, cross section, and valve timing/action I bet have a bigger influence in low speed power than valve configuration. take a similar displacement hemi and wedge, with similar port volume/cross section built similarly, I bet their power curves will track pretty closely....

here's the dyno results of Dulcich's "mild manner mauler" which is a .030 over, stock stroke 440 with 295CC indy EZ heads, comp XE275HL with 1.7 rockers, and starts out with an indy dual plane intake....

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/projectbuild/mopp_0510_440_engine_dyno_test/dyno_results.html

with the indy 2 plane intake, those huge heads are making peak torque at 3500 RPM, while still making 96% of peak torque from 3100 RPM to 5500 RPM, where he got into instability issues trying to run a hydraulic lifter with an XEHL cam AND 1.7 rockers...runs 3 and 4 switch to a single plane intake, and that one change moved the torque peak up to 5000 RPM, but we only see about 85% of peak torque at 3100 RPM....

here's the same motor, but a switch to a small solid roller (242@.050)

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...no_results.html

interesting how the peak torque with the dual plane intake jumped up to basically a plateau from 4500-5500 RPM, but it's still making 90% of peak torque from 3000 RPM to 6500, and with a switch to a single plane, peak torque jumped up to ~5000 RPM, but it's only making 81% at 3000 RPM...

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/08/12 03:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A big Wedge head is a bit different than a big Hemi head! Everyone know's 426 Hemi's don't make any low speed power...it's all up top.

yes and no...you get some inherent tumble and swirl induced by the wedge head's valves proximity to the cylinder wall, as well as increased shrouding that you won't get with a hemi or pentroof (closer to what the genIII is)....but overall intke tract length, port volume, cross section, and valve timing/action I bet have a bigger influence in low speed power than valve configuration. take a similar displacement hemi and wedge, with similar port volume/cross section built similarly, I bet their power curves will track pretty closely....

here's the dyno results of Dulcich's "mild manner mauler" which is a .030 over, stock stroke 440 with 295CC indy EZ heads, comp XE275HL with 1.7 rockers, and starts out with an indy dual plane intake....

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/projectbuild/mopp_0510_440_engine_dyno_test/dyno_results.html

with the indy 2 plane intake, those huge heads are making peak torque at 3500 RPM, while still making 96% of peak torque from 3100 RPM to 5500 RPM, where he got into instability issues trying to run a hydraulic lifter with an XEHL cam AND 1.7 rockers...runs 3 and 4 switch to a single plane intake, and that one change moved the torque peak up to 5000 RPM, but we only see about 85% of peak torque at 3100 RPM....

here's the same motor, but a switch to a small solid roller (242@.050)

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...no_results.html

interesting how the peak torque with the dual plane intake jumped up to basically a plateau from 4500-5500 RPM, but it's still making 90% of peak torque from 3000 RPM to 6500, and with a switch to a single plane, peak torque jumped up to ~5000 RPM, but it's only making 81% at 3000 RPM...

Now go find a Hemi that somebody did those things to and you'll see what I mean.

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/08/12 01:58 PM

Well we have an aftermakert head for the 3rd gen Hemi already

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f71/introd...er-head-310779/

Posted By: cagebob1

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/08/12 02:07 PM

Let's hope that this is just the beginning of the wave of aftermarket support this engine deserves!

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/08/12 02:48 PM

Quote:

Well we have an aftermakert head for the 3rd gen Hemi already

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f71/introd...er-head-310779/

Nice to see but IMO we need a cast siamese big bore block for about the same price as an R3.
Get the block and sky the limit.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/08/12 11:45 PM

Quote:

Let's hope that this is just the beginning of the wave of aftermarket support this engine deserves!

And I also agree a block would be nice although the Aluminum MP blocks should be the way to go other than cost.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/26/12 11:58 PM

How bout this for a combo.
production 6.4 short block for 2200.
early 5.7 heads that should give you a 9.7 compression
add cam headers dragpack intake and you have over 500 hp.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 05:58 AM

Quote:

How bout this for a combo.
production 6.4 short block for 2200.
early 5.7 heads that should give you a 9.7 compression
add cam headers dragpack intake and you have over 500 hp.

OK, where are you getting a 6.4 short block cheaper than a 6.1????

Posted By: Pat7272

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 01:50 PM

Quote:

OK, where are you getting a 6.4 short block cheaper than a 6.1????

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7249623

PN RL086564AB

http://www.mopar.com/part/RL086564AB?s=335643&i=1973412&b=dodge

MSRP = $2240

Posted By: mshred

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 09:48 PM

Are 6.4's forged components in the bottom end? What is the cubic inch on these engines? Thats a pretty screaming deal

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 10:13 PM

Quote:

Are 6.4's forged components in the bottom end? What is the cubic inch on these engines? Thats a pretty screaming deal

Yes but the rods are powder crack type floating pin.
6.4 cid is 392.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 10:14 PM

Quote:

Are 6.4's forged components in the bottom end? What is the cubic inch on these engines? Thats a pretty screaming deal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine#6.4_.2F_392

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/SRT-V8.html

Yes but the rods are powder crack type floating pin.
6.4 cid is 392.

Does someone make a forged rod that's the same length and weight? Swap those in, no balancing required.

Posted By: AlexP

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 10:42 PM

We picked up 30rwhp and 28rwtq from an almost bone stock 392 with only ported 6.4 heads.

6.4 is a good number for hemi's, with the apaches or nor.

Posted By: Pat7272

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/27/12 11:20 PM

Quote:

We picked up 30rwhp and 28rwtq from an almost bone stock 392 with only ported 6.4 heads.

6.4 is a good number for hemi's, with the apaches or nor.

Are the 6.4 heads significantly better than the 6.1? How about the Apache?

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/28/12 12:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

We picked up 30rwhp and 28rwtq from an almost bone stock 392 with only ported 6.4 heads.

6.4 is a good number for hemi's, with the apaches or nor.

Are the 6.4 heads significantly better than the 6.1? How about the Apache?

Stock they flow a little more on the intake side however they a large 2.14 vavlue which should help out low and lift flow numbers over the 6.1 plus the fact the 6.4 has a closed chamber.

Posted By: MattW

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/28/12 12:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

We picked up 30rwhp and 28rwtq from an almost bone stock 392 with only ported 6.4 heads.

6.4 is a good number for hemi's, with the apaches or nor.

Are the 6.4 heads significantly better than the 6.1? How about the Apache?

Depending on application.
6.4 heads are Apache heads.
IMO the 6.4 is too big but I'm no expert. Matt

Posted By: mshred

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/28/12 01:28 AM

thanks for the info guys

Posted By: Pat7272

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/28/12 01:44 AM

Quote:

Depending on application.
6.4 heads are Apache heads.
IMO the 6.4 is too big but I'm no expert. Matt

My mistake, I'm still trying to learn these new HEMIs on paper.

How do the 6.4 Apaches compare to the 5.7 Eagle heads? On a 6.4L + engine.

Posted By: AlexP

Re: Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today! - 06/28/12 01:53 AM

The Eagles are my favorite head for the Hemi Platform. They've for a tight chamber, a reasonable sized intake port and the D-port exhaust from the 6.1.

They've done amazing things on a 426 in 4600 lb raceweight cars (I don't know if you can really call 4600lbs a raceweight lol)

The 6.4 head is a more modern version of the 6.1...Not to say the 6.1 is "bad" but I think big ports and peaky power are the norm now of days.

Each head has its purpose. If you're starting from scratch, there is no reason for price or performance that you should start with anything but BNIB eagle or apache.

Got our late 5.7 Hemi heads today!